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My trusty 2007 Focus finally blew up last weekend and it is terminal. So...
What should I get to replace it? I'm looking for a
- family hatch/estate with good space for luggage and passengers (2 kids growing fast plus we go camping/glamping etc)
- I'm probably looking to buy used rather than lease because I'm not really the kind of person who wants or needs a new car every 3 years.
- Not bothered about a "prestige" car
- I am used to a 2 litre petrol engine so a decent BHP would be nice
The standard STW answer of Skoda Octavia seems to tick a lot of boxes and I just test drove a 1.5 petrol SE-L which seemed pretty nice. Really like the masssssive boot, the access to boot from rear seats ("ski hatch"), CarPlay-compatible big screen infotainment (god I hate the word) unit. Felt a little boring to drive but that's okay.
Bit confused by the array of trim options though (S, SE, SE-L, SE Technology, SE Drive) and wondering whether an Estate is a better option over the Hatch. Diesel estates seem to go for a decent price 2nd hand and get good MPG but is diesel really dying out? Should it matter?
And Auto vs Manual is a choice I've never thought about before. Always been manual but the new Autos seem very nice.
Any advice, kind words or suggestions of other things to look at?
All the cool kids drive auto gearbox estates.
😉
Buy the one that makes you feel special.
But, yeah, an estate or SUV.
Once you have one you'll never go back.
We - reluctantly - had to buy a used car 4 years ago to replace the scrapped Saab 900. Octavia also ticked many of the boxes, down to being same dimensions (and probably carrying more kit as an estate).
Apart from being spoiled with the Saab for some comfort and controls, Octavia works well for us Graeme, has been in to get fixed a few times but nothing outrageous, economy is all right - 1.4TSI here and that lugs a surprising amount of kit, roof box and bikes included.
Ours is a 60 plate estate, basic level of trim (wasn't any Bluetooth e.g. and some warning stuff isn't there (no washer level warning, no headlamp washer that sort of thing).
Does that help? would we get another - probably! it's a decent no nonsense car that don't mind chucking stuff into, it drives, it stops, local garage happy to service it, it looks ratty as we don't bother cleaning it, we don't care.
Add: I'm quite light footed these days - economy on a long Central Belt jaunt is easily around the 40mpg and often more - sometimes laden (two uni aged children) and sometimes solo or just couple of us. That's (obviously) a petrol with not fancy Greenline or fancy stuff going on.
The real danger is that, once you go big it's really hard to downsize again. You just miss the space too much.
My current car, a seven seater 2.3 diesel Mitsubishi Outlander is, by most measures, a pretty big car.....but not to me.
It feels tiny and cramped compared to my previous S-max / Pathfinder / Galaxy.
Interior car space is a heady drug indeed.
Passat?
Like an Octavia with slightly bigger trousers on.
Yadda,yadda,yadda
SMax
wondering whether an Estate is a better option over the Hatch
Yes, always. For every car, not just Skoda Octavias.
What say you regarding diesel?
The media seem to be on a bit of a "Diesel BAD" trip at the moment following Dieselgate and the new rules on diesel emissions - but are they so bad? MPG seems a lot higher (e.g. 2L diesel estate is 70mpg at 150bhp and 106g/km CO2, that doesn't seem bad compared to the 1.5L petrol estate's 54mpg at same bhp and 119g/km CO2)
SMax
Aren't they a bit blowy-uppy? 😉
What say you regarding diesel?
As long as they keep sellin' it, i'll keep burnin' it.
Just bought a weasel.
Tax be cheaper.
MPG be better.
Depends how old your potential partner is, some of the new smaller turbo petrols return very good mpg.
Just bought a weasel.
I'd struggle for luggage space on anything smaller than a ferret.
superb or mondeo both in estate
Diesel if you do a lot of longer journeys, petrol if you do mainly shorter ones, is accepted wisdom I believe.
I have an SE Tech which is about to go back to the lease co, hasn't put a foot wrong in the couple of years I've had it. I'm almost certainly going to replace it with another one.
Golf TDi or Ferrari F40
VRS Estate. In petrol or diesel, depending on your journeys.
Although I hired a hatch a couple of days ago and the boot is huge if you don't want the estate. The hire car was a 1.6 diesel of some sort, it wasn't slow but wasn't in any way exciting to drive. The DSG was good but I probably need a few more miles to get used to brief hesitation before it started moving.
The DSG was good but I probably need a few more miles to get used to brief hesitation before it started moving.
I had one for three years (A6 V6 turbo diesel) and never got.
Used to the hesitation.
Hateful things IMO.
What say you regarding diesel?
Don't believe the hype.
Imo it's an issue if you are always in cities and stop start. Big miles or heavy loads, diesel still has a place.
I'm a 2.0l diesel driver.
As MOAB says, diesels are good load luggers and long distance machines. If you do lots of speeding up and slowing down - roundabouts, clover leafs, on ramps, heavy right foot etc then Diesel is not much better MPG wise than a turbo petrol and you may be worse off after factoring in all costs.
We now have 2 TDis
edit: in the older one I can beat the manufacture claimed MPG but not in the newer one.
If buying a VW/Skoda new or nearly new 1.5Tsi engined car watch for juddering when pulling away in first gear. Widespread issue.
https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/458520-problems-with-15-tsi-across-vag-group/
That aside the previous generation 2013 - 2018 1.4Tsi 150hp engine is brilliant. I have it in my Superb Estate and it never feels underpowered even with 4 adults in a big car like that. With the decent sized tank in the Superb there is a range of up to 700 miles and 47mpg cruising at 70-75. Over 50 going a bit slower.
As for Octavia V Superb. The Superb has far more space especially for rear seat passengers. The estate with a fold flat front passenger seat (an option) takes loads up to 3m long.
The Superb is quieter and more refined than either my old 2012 Octavia or the 2017 Skoda Octavia Scouts I drive at work. I have the SE trim which has 17"wheels. Some people on Briskoda report a harsh ride with larger size wheels and some surfaces.
Love my Superb, it’s a bit big in the same way say an oil tanker is so bear that in mind if you use NCPs and the like.
Some people on Briskoda report a harsh ride with larger size wheels and some surfaces
19s on my Sportline, ride is really good, but terrible on speed bumps, really really bad.
I’d struggle for luggage space on anything smaller than a ferret.
Stoats are worth looking at, if you're that way inclined.
Stoats are worth looking at, if you’re that way inclined.
Agreed. They’re alwight in the snow as well
If buying a VW/Skoda new or nearly new 1.5Tsi engined car watch for juddering when pulling away in first gear. Widespread issue.
Yep, my Octavia does this. But, if you pull away using only the clutch until it's all the way out, then press the accelerator, it doesn't do it. It automatically applies revs, good for slow moving queues of traffic.
Buy a 3 year old Kia it’ll still have 4 yrs warranty left, or buy a 1yr old from a main dealer and they’ll give you 7 yrs warranty
i may be selling my 57 octavia L&K 2.0 in a few weeks if you can wait that long? all depends on whether i carry on using company car or not on 1st september. needs a new battery first.
If buying a VW/Skoda new or nearly new 1.5Tsi engined car watch for juddering when pulling away in first gear. Widespread issue.
Thanks. Didn't notice this on the test drive. Does it develop over time?
The Octavia hatchback I test drove was petrol and had that "Cylinder on Demand" tech where it only uses 2 cylinders on idle/light load, it seemed very smooth, including some steep hill starts.
i may be selling my 57 octavia L&K 2.0 in a few weeks
Thanks but we're looking for a newish one that will last us a good five years at least. Currently looking mostly at 2017 onwards.
We've got a 2017 passat estate (as well as a camper van) but I'm thinking of getting rid of the passat and getting a small van (T6, Tourneo, V-Class). Once you've got kids and if you're into biking/climbing then space becomes the most important thing so I figure you might as well get the absolute maximum space in a vehicle which can be driven as a car (ie. low enough to get into all car parks, short enough to be able to park relatively easily, similar fuel economy to a big estate, and small enough to treat like a car in all situations).
Bit annoying as we bought the passat new thinking it would be a 5 year solution but I just think it's way too small!
Sent the missus out to test drive a Ford S-Max and she's just come back singing the praises of the Grand C-Max 😀
Just over a year ago I bought a 66 plate Octavia Estate (SE Sport), it's an auto petrol. If you're a car nerd it's probably about as boring as it gets. From a practical point of view, especially hauling the family plus loads of outdoors stuff around, I'm very happy with it.
I had one for three years (A6 V6 turbo diesel) and never got.
Used to the hesitation.
Hateful things IMO.
When I come to replace either of ours I think I'd need an extended test drive before committing to DSG. My 7 year old BMW is a joy in comparison to the Octavia, the extra power helps obviously but the auto box in mine feels a lot smoother, especially off the line. It's getting serviced tomorrow so I'm hoping it'll come back even silkier & smoother. I only had the Octy for 24 hours and thought after a couple of days I might get used to it.
Just to add on the DSG point... the gearbox in our Passat (2017 GT TDI bluemotion) is one of the worst gearboxes I have ever driven. It's genuinely mind boggling that it can be so bad. Previously had BMW 330d with an 8 speed auto and it was fantastic. Also had a 2016 Golf R for 2 years and the gearbox in that was ok too. This passat is something else... to the point where I think it verges on dangerous.
I wouldn't buy anything with this same DSG gearbox in it.
I have a 1.5tsi Skoda and never noticed the judder topic in the last 25k miles. Great car and the cylinder shut down works well and is seamless. I always go for small wheels and big tyres as UK roads are rubbish. Skoda has 16" rims which help over the pot holes.
I'm in the process of buying my lease 17 plate Superb as the bargain lease deals are no longer available. The Superb really is a good car, tons of space and a great long distance car. It's big but for my feel like a barge.
I had a lease Octavia Scout before which I liked looks wise and the seats-up boot space was surprisingly similar, the refinement and general quality was definitely a not as good as the Superb. The normal Octavia is a good car if a little dull.
My experience with DSG boxes is that the hesitation is a characteristic that you easily learn to work around.
You don't have a DSG box in an A6 ..It's an S-tronic..( yeah I know it's the same in the real world ) ..
I drive an A6 Allroad 3.0l V6 S-tronic
..and havent encountered any of the problems mentioned above ...if its not quick enough just stick it into dynamic setting and it becomes a bit of a missile ..
edit:..should also mention that previous experiences of a DSG box have also been faultless on previous cars ..( 55 plate Touareg and 06 plate Passat Sport both from new ) ..
Update:
Octavia is still on the list, but our eyes have now been turned by the possibility of a Ford Grand C-Max or S-Max.
The ability to sit 5 kids and 2 adults on occasion could be very useful when operating the Dad's Taxi service. The rest of the time it would sit the 4 of us with the rearmost seats down leaving a pretty big boot to put gear in.
You've got the bug now, you'll be eyeing up a Galaxy and thinking about a T5 before the week is out.
Have a go in an SMax. I’m on my second. Admittedly the first did expire due to the timing belt failing, but at 101,000 miles I should have had it done, so I can’t blame the car.
Got a 2015 Titanium spec 2.0ltr diesel in mint condition for £12k in April.
41 mpg around town. 45 mgp on a run.
If you drive sensibly the tyres are good for 20,000 miles and premium ones are about £110 each.
Can take 4 adults and 2 kids away for a week with a top box on.
Normally it is just the 4 of us, so there is plenty of space. We are away for the weekend and I can guarantee that my lad will decide at the last minute that he wants to take a guitar. No problem, chuck it in.
29” bike in the boot whole plus power washer and a builder’s bucket for the wet kit? No problem, chuck it in.
The boot opening is level, so things just slide in (and occasionally fall out), but when the hatch is open (well over 7ft head room) it can be used as a covered seat. Great for getting muddy kit off without filthing up the cabin.
The best thing about it is the comfort. It is so easy to drive. I can do Manchester to the bottom of Cornwall pretty much non stop and get out feeling fresh. In my previous three cars I feel like I’ve been beaten up after 360 miles.
It can also take 700kg of bricks if you have a wife like mine who has a thing for architectural salvage.
Hyundai i800 ftw.
manufacture claimed MPG
I think you mean official test figures. Nobody's claiming anything.
On the subject of the 1.5 tsi manual juddering this appears to be something that only happens to some cars but is found across all models using this engine. VAG have described it as not a fault but a characteristic.
The boot opening is level, so things just slide in (and occasionally fall out),
Unless you still have your apple catcher.
It is so easy to drive.
Agreed, I've had a wide selection of 7 seaters and the S-max was the nicest to drive by a considerable margin.
What's the DSG issue?
I really love mine, well, more than any other Auto I've had, I still sometimes wish it was a manual because it never changes gear exactly when I want it to, it also drives like someone who's used to a petrol drives a diesel, holding onto the gear till the red line, long after the torque is gone anyway.
Apart from it's love of pulling off in second, it's pretty instant, certainly pulls away faster than I could in a manual.
Whats your budget?, thats the crux!
I think if I were buying rather than leasing, and intended to keep the vehicle I'd avoid DSG. The economy claims vs manual are not bourne out by personal experience and they cost more to purchase and reliability outside of the warranty period.....
Also another who finds the driving experience underwhelming to say the least
S-Max are nice. Friends have one. Interior space measured in football pitches. I would have bought one as our family wagon, but it got veto'd as mrsm wanted a CRV at the time.
Recent model Zafira probably worth putting on the hitlist if you like the idea of an S-Max.
Many moons ago I test drove a Passat with the DSG. It was all very nice to drive, no oddly timed changes or anything like that, but as an out-of-warranty ownership prospect it proper put the willies up me.
Whilst we're on the subject of rodents, it should be noted that a weasel is weaselly identifiable, whereas a stoat is stoatally different.
Well despite what I said earlier it appears that not all DSG boxes are the same ..there are a few different variants ..so I guess it all depends which one you have got in your particular vehicle ..
All I can say is that the S-tronic 7 speed in an A6 Allroad 3.0l V6 diesel ( 272) ..is pretty awesome and makes the flappy paddle option as well as the manual forward/ back option on the " gearstick " pretty much obsolete !
https://axleaddict.com/cars/DSG-Transmission-Variants
Whilst we’re on the subject of rodents
Mustelids.
Whats your budget?, thats the crux!
We are thinking max £15k - less would be welcome obvs.
I can get a good spec 2017 Grand C-Max for that, like this:
£13.5k Titanium X trim (Pano sunroof) 1.5 TDCi Diesel Auto (120bhp) with 22.6k miles on clock.
or this:
£14.5k 1.0 EcoBoost Titanium trim Petrol Manual (125bhp) just 3k on the clock
Or a lower trim, higher mileage 2017 S-Max like this:
£14.3k Zetec trim (bog standard), 2L TDCi Diesel Manual (150bhp) with 31.2k on the clock
We're mostly looking at 2017 because they got a bit of a facelift that year and that's when the Ford SYNC "infotainment" (spit) system started supporting Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, which seems useful.
Likewise that budget gets a nice trim 2017 Octavia Estate like this:
£14.8k 2.0 TDI CR Diesel Manual (150bhp) SE L trim with 15.9k on clock
Mind you, I am kind of aware that sort of money could also buy something much more fun:
£12.5k 2014 Jaguar XF 2.2 D SportBrake (163bhp)
😂
I have an Octavia which I have on personal lease. Whilst I don't actually own the car I'm leasing it for quite a bit less than I'd lose in depreciation if I'd have bought it.
For the two years at 10k miles per year I'm paying the equivalent of £166 per month. (I put £2400 down and actually pay £66 per month).
The car I have is the 1.0 SE Technology. Yes it's not fast but it's better than you think. It produces the same power and more torque than the 2ltr engine did only a couple of generations ago and it does return 60 mpg on a run.
Lease deals have gone up since I leased mine but similar deals are out there. Search for 'Octavia' or 'lease' on hotukdeals.
I'm just about to collect another Octavia estate. The one's it's replacing is a 2009 1.4 TSI with more than 133k on the clock. I've found a manual 2017, 1.4 TSI. It's a no frills car, and it does the job.
Does the collective have any thoughts on this 2017 Grand C-Max?
https://www.carshop.co.uk/used-car/FORD/GRAND%20C-MAX/BW17SLU
Seems to tick a lot of boxes for us. And the price is good for 2017 Titanium X with 17.7k miles
Must be able to get a 5 Series for £15k?
The Ford will be fine while it's still new... But being a Ford, they don't stay new for very long. I'd avoid.
My Superb 2.0 140tdi is just back from a loaded up drive to the Alps and breezed through it's MOT on returning. 56mpg overall for the journey, achieving over 60mpg on some motorway sections and happily managed the 56 at a steady 130kph/80+mph on the French autoroutes.
It's quick enough, very smooth and quiet; a pal's 2 year old grand C-max doesn't come close for comfort and is already showing it's age.
Space in the Superb is simply huge, everywhere. Including when parking it..
10 years old this month, now with 59k on the clock it still both drives and looks like it's brand new. I agree with comments above about wheel size, 17" is probably the best compromise.
But being a Ford, they don’t stay new for very long. I’d avoid.
I call shenanigans.
In six years of Focus ownership, the only non service items I had to have replaced were:
one rear calliper
the alternator
Also, 2.0 diesel, it got around 55mpg at motorway speeds; rarely under 45mpg for town driving.
I hypermiled it at nearly 90mpg a couple of times (down at 50mph for an entire journey).
Yeah as I said at the start, this car is to replace my (t)rusty Ford Focus which was 12 years old and had done close to 130k before she finally died on me. So I'm not too worried about opting for C-Max which is built on a Ford Focus.
diesel estate is 70mpg at 150bhp and 106g/km CO2, that doesn’t seem bad compared to the 1.5L petrol estate’s 54mpg at same bhp and 119g/km CO2)
That's a big difference between the petrol and diesel - much more than there is in our VW Caddy.
It looks like you're doing less than 10k per year. 142gallons diesel. 185gallons petrol. A gallon of fuel (WTF is going on with economy in mpg and fuel sold in litres?) is about £6. So the petrol could cost you £250 a year extra to run but you've got to look at purchase price, servicing, parking permit costs.
I'm really liking the DSG in the Caddy. In 'D' mode it gets into very high gears and the revs are nearly always low enough the turbo's not running so there's a bit of a pause to accelerate. Was the same in the auto BMW I drove. Doesn't happen in S. Any delay from standstill doesn't affect me the way I drive and I'm absolutely certain you gain it back on the 1st to second gear change.
One thing to think about is that several cities will be introducing congestion charges in the next few years. This may have a significant impact on used car prices, especially diesel.
But being a Ford, they don’t stay new for very long. I’d avoid.
I call shenanigans.
Likewise, I'm not sure what this is based on. I had a Focus for 7 years and 75k miles. For me it was a case of 'just add fuel'. Great car and 100% reliable.
Passat?
Like an Octavia with slightly bigger trousers on.
I have a 1.4 TSI Passat estate. It is vast (though not actually any longer than the Avensis saloon it replaced). Adaptive cruise is a thing of true wonder.
If I was buying again, I’d have the lane to make motorway miles even easier. And the HUD…
Thanks all
We went for the Ford Grand C-Max in the end.
The ability to carry extra kids when necessary but still have ample boot space the rest of the time won is over. Reclining rear seats and a panoramic sun roof also helped.
Thanks for your help.
Anyone want to buy a lovely 2007 Ford Focus with a slightly knackered engine?