[Closed] What are the benefits of a private education?

I had similar, I was expelled after 2.5 years.

Youth, really is sometimes wasted on the young. I didn't appreciate it one bit.

I think it varies massively between different schools. Some of the proper old school ones and you are in With the old boys network / know people and families that have connections but this really only the top few schools and not most of the private schools despite what people will say.

Most average fee paying schools I would say it's smaller class size, opportunity to try different non academic activities, good level of extra support if you have dyslexia etc good facility for sports and design tech and subjects like that which requires high capital investment. I think there are plenty of state schools that are easily as good as most these average private schools but you have the luck of the draw as if the local state school is any good.

My kids will not / are not going to private school but that's because I can't afford it. However if I could afford it, that would not necessarily mean they would go to a private school, it would depend on the schools (both private and state) locally. (I am not talking about boarding here that's a different subject)

Look at the record of the school - although not subject to the same Ofsted scoring, they do have similar things in place. Our local fee-paying school has lower grades across the board than the state-funded school our girls go to. Don’t just assume that it will be better because it is paid-for education.

The children's peers. Children at a private school are likely to make friendships with children of wealthy, influential and perhaps powerful people.

Compared to a (in my day) comprehensive where your peers are more likely to have regular low to medium paid jobs with little influence or connections.

Obviously this is a generalisation and there is always exceptions (I know a privately educated part time teacher and a state school educated consultant doctor).

But the general rule is even an absolute baffoon can get a plum job like running the country if they're privately educated and well connected.

Congratulations to your daughter.

Would you like an education that is costing £4k per year or £12k? Of course there are economies of scale, but when the headline figure is 3x more per pupil, that must be buying something other than profit margin. You've already alluded to much of it. What really matters is where her friends are going though.

I had a scholarship to a private school, but went to the local Grammar (last year before it turned comprehensive) school instead. Largely for rather traumatic personal reasons.

Our 16 year old son has just transferred to a private school for his last 2 years (I got a new job which made it possible). Our 14 year old is still at the state school the 16 year old was at until this summer.

My impression is that the academic level isn't all that different between the two schools (in the sense that he was already doing well at the state school), but the environment at the private school is much much better for our 16 year old. He's very academic and probably somewhere on the spectrum and he just seems to fit in better in that environment. He's definitely enjoying school in a way he didn't seem to be before. He seems a lot more confident, and for my money this is really the fundamental difference. Good private schools instil confidence in kids that state schools seem to struggle to do. I wish I had sent him sooner, but I couldn't afford it at the time.

As always, YMMV.

Depends very much on the kid and the school .  Remembering education is about more than exam results.  going to a true comp taught me a lot more about wider aspects of life by befriending folk from very different backgrounds.

Have a read of Chris Hoy's autobiography. It gives a great insight into sending a kid from a regular working class background to a private school.

His parents sacrificed a lot and worked crazy hours to find his and his sisters education.

Gross generalisation: not having to share a classroom and the teacher’s time with kids who have massive social problems that need managing instead of just learning the subject.

But the general rule is even an absolute baffoon can get a plum job like running the country if they’re privately educated and well connected.

This is just not true I am afraid, a select few a schools open up this world but only a few schools and you will still need to be competent to get anywhere. It still can allow people to take up jobs for which there probably not up to at the entry level and block other more competent people.

I obviously know who you are referring to (not a fan personally) but don't want to derail the ops thread.

I've had both state and private education (and went to more than then average number of schools thanks to being from a forces family). I'd say there are two main differences. Greater resources and facilities in private schools (libraries, theatres, workshops, sports facilities etc). And, more significantly, a far stronger and more competitive culture around learning and educational attainment. I don't if this was down to the attitude of teachers affecting pupils or whatever but in the state schools I went to it was a point of pride to be seen not to be learning whereas in the private schools it was a point of pride to do well academically. Either way, it boiled down to private school pupils having more opportunities and also taking advantage of them. By the time I got to university it was very obvious which students had had private or state educations in how mature they were and able to look after themselves. Just my experience. (I didn't go to a grammar school but to me they seem like the best of both worlds but I'm sure you'll hear some dissenting opinions.)

Depends very much on the kid and the school . Remembering education is about more than exam results. going to a true comp taught me a lot more about wider aspects of life by befriending folk from very different backgrounds.

This is very true. If you decide with her that she goes make sure she doesn't exist in that enclave.

Not to pry, but have you done all the sums when deciding you can afford it?

Lots of extras on uniform, trips, keeping up with new friends etc. etc.

It'll be a fair old chunk on top.

Latin?

Dont just think a private education is for Alpha males and females. A lot of people think that.

We have twin 11 years old boys, one is going to a specialist school for ADHD, ASD for high functioning specific. The other who suffers from being in a house with the rest of us suffers with being a bit anxious, what we notices was in lockdown #2 he was allowed back to school and in smaller classrooms he flourished. I really hates the noise and chaos of 32 kids in a classroom.

Sooo we have hunted down local private schools where they are just nice. Lots of sport, art, drama and tech, small classroom and extra help emotionally if needed. He cant wait.

I think its the sort of school any of use couldnt help do better than most of us did in school. Well defo for me

Well done to your daughter. Agree with most of the above in that it depends on the school but on balance my impression is that private is better. I went to state schools, as do my kids, if I could afford to send them private I would in a heartbeat. Smaller classes, better facilities, more relaxed staff, etc etc.

Of my friends, about half were privately educated. We are all similar but those that were privately educated have largely been more successful, not because they were taught how to pass more exams but because they had a confidence at 20 that it took me another 20 years to develop. I firmly believe that private schools produce more rounded individuals and give them a better start in life.

OK its decades ago but the comp I went to had far better facilities than any of the fee paying schools and certainly produced more rounded individuals

this is why I say down to the kids and the school

I was offered to go to Hutchesons at 14.  I refused because the hutchie kids were basically dicks and the school didn't have half the facilities of good old Hillpark.

Perhaps an outlier but do not believe private always equals better facilities

I turned down a full scholarship at 11, and have never regretted it one bit. I suppose it always depends on which schools you are comparing. I was in an area with no grammar schools, no 11 plus, just fully comp schools trying to teach everyone. You learn a lot in that environment that you could never learn in a public school with a mix of “talented” and privileged kids. If your kid is smart enough to get even a partial scholarship, they will excel academically at any school. What else do you want them to experience during their school years…? That’s the big question you have to answer. Well, the second question after “how shit is the alternative”… all down to the schools you have as options.

An ex colleague’s in laws sent their kids to a private school. He said the main difference was the conversation at parents evening.

State school
Teach: little Johnny isn’t working hard & his grades are low.
Ma&Pa (to teach) what can we do to help him?
(to Johnny) pull your socks/work harder or they’ll be no pudding.

Fee school
Teach: little Johnny isn’t working hard & his grades are low.
Ma&Pa (to teach) what are you going to do about it? We’re paying for you to teach. If he’s not working hard/getting grades your need to sort it out.

I received a scholarship to boarding school. (Single parent working class Mum).

For me it was access to opportunities to learn a far greater variety of subjects and access to sports and extra curricular experiences I wouldn't have got anywhere near otherwise.

Just looking round schools now for my own two and it makes me sad the opportunities I had that I will never be able to offer them.

Sooo we have hunted down local private schools where they are just nice.

Says it all really...

forces background too, so a new school most years, including a stint overseas. did final year of GCSE and a levels in a private school.

I would say definitely contacts to get started in life. if you fit in. coming from outside into a clique which had been together since first school was very tough. I didn't gel well with being told to clean prefects shoes for instance and ended up in alot of scraps. fortunately moving school alot means you get that quite a bit, so used to it.

found it hard as the poor kid, only one without a car at 17.

I really liked competitive nature of it, and did really well academical to beat others. but I kind of lost my way at university when i realised no one else really gave a crap if you can first or last in a test!

most of my friends have done well for themselves, but that is more from the confidence to take risks, as they know they have family backup.

fees for our local private are huge, I'm happy with the primary my boys are at. I'll see about secondary.

Privately educated and agree totally with @tonyd. Teaching standards are high, instills self belief and you are pushed to achieve your full potential.

It’s true to say most pupils come from privileged background but my school did offer scholarships as well. I’ve got friends from less well off backgrounds who are now in careers that would be unthinkable without getting the chance to attend a private school. I’d also say the old boy network is likely a myth (for the majority of private schools) and certainly not experienced this personally.

Im sensitive views will be split on rights and wrongs of private education but that’s not the question being asked.

Ahh **** it I’ll bite.
Basically if you can’t trust your kid to ignore Jonny ****wit send them to private school so they don’t have to mix with the great unwashed.

Gross generalisation: not having to share a classroom and the teacher’s time with kids who have massive social problems that need managing instead of just learning the subject.

I went to a selective state grammar school, so kind of in-between. But IME that ^, no offense to Weeksy, but children who are just little *s will be out the door sharpish and become someone else's problem leaving the rest of us behind to learn stuff. The local comp tends to be where those little *s end up, making life difficult for those there who do actually want to learn things, dragging everybody down by being disruptive.
It was certainly a noticeable difference where I went to school (Lincolnshire. I belive only us, Buckinghamshire, Kent and Northern Ireland still have grammar schools? I wait to be corrected)

Peer group

Peer group parents

Peer group Red Brick University

Peer group career opportunities

The Peer group can smell working class/comprehensive kids like me from the other side of the Gastro pub.

I've taught in a very broad spectrum of schools - from Harry Potter to Trainspotting in atmosphere.

I think the main thing you're paying for with a private education is a peer group. Private schools (and state schools in affluent areas) have lots of kids who are very motivated academically, either because they have a specific goal (medicine, law, etc) or they have enough financial security that they know they can follow their interests. It can make for quite a pressured environment in which not everyone flourishes - it's worth speaking to your daughter about her feelings on this.

The extra-curricular stuff is obviously another bonus, but it's worth checking out if the school has a particular focus. In one school I noticed that any boy who didn't play rugby was definitely treated as a bit of a 2nd class citizen by kids and staff alike. Not the case in all private schools though.

Thanks all.
Results wise for GCSE and A Level the school is well above the national average.
She wants to learn, in her current primary she is top 3 in the year for maths & science.
We have experience of both the local state secondary schools as my step son has been to both. First one he lasted until the October half term in year 7 due to bullying and being ostracised by his 'mates' who he followed to the school....
Second one has been better, but over the last couple of years discipline seems to have dropped as has pastoral care.
So we know from experience that following your mates isn't alway the best policy.
Both of those have between 700-800 pupils, so not massive compared to the one I attended which was closer to 2000 pupils.

The Grammar has 250 secondary pupils split across 3 houses - so a lot smaller class sizes.

She got the Scholarship based on her dance and sporting ability as well as academic, so is aware that she will be expected to perform and join the cross country team etc.

Peer group

For balance, my niece was removed from a private school and moved to a state grammar instead. Her siblings have stayed. During lockdown it was obvious that the private school was less well organised and did little for the welfare of pupils. By contrast the grammar was exemplary.

Reason for leaving was largely down to peer group and falling in with a “wrong crowd”. Teenage girls can be very cruel. She’s flying now.

We're in the same situation with my eldest but in Australia where private school is much more common. We've found a school that has a really rounded approach to education, where it isn't overly academic but about developing the individual.

It feels as close as i'll find to the non-fee paying selective 14+ grammar school i went to in England (IIRC there were only two left in the UK at the time) and feel hugely privileged to have done so. We were treated as more grown up and responded as such. I don't think i ever saw a fight between 14-18 and the attitude to learning was so much better then the comp i'd been to before.

However, when i went to a Uni with a large number of private school kids I always felt a bit of an outsider. Can't really put my finger on it, but there was a Home Counties private school snobbery (or i felt there was). So i'd echo the sentiment that if your daughter will fit in, it could be a real benefit.

Really depends on the individual school and individual child. Your daughter's situation is completely different to mine. But here is a brief run down of my experience.

My brother and I both went to private schools on scholarships, we wouldn't have gone without them and my grandparents paid the fees, my parents had a good income but definitely couldn't afford the fees themselves. I was also diagnosed with dislexia, and 80's state school had very poor funding for that at the time, where as the private ones saw it as a buisness venture.

My prep school was great, really good teachers, facilities and other students, but there were other issues which I'll come too.

My senior school (boarding) however had amazing facilities (golf course, private beach, squash courts etc) but 50% of the teaching staff were absolutely complete and utter balls and the school had a big ingrained bulling problem - I left with ok grades, C's and B's, but was in the top set for everything and really should have done much better. I also had an older brother at the school so didn't get picked on much, and generally have fond memories of the place. But my brother absolutely hates the place. The school shut down a year after I left - from my year of 50 students only 6 or so stayed to do a levels and it shut down at the end of their first year, the school had a junior school as well and after repeated years of poor GCSE results the Scholl didn't have enough students and merged or was sold off to a near by rival. Im not in contact with any of my school friends other than a couple on Facebook, and didn't build any lifetime friendships.

It also turns out the previous headmaster had been extensively abusing kids at the school during the late 70s and early 80s (before my time) and there is an investigation into a cover up at the school. Following on from this and on the same note, my prep schools Headmaster and English teacher of when I attended both are now convicted pedo's. There were rumours in the playground about it but nothing came out about it untill about 10yrs ago when expupils came forward and they were convicted. Headmasters nickname at the school was 'bender'......

Personally I don't think that there is much benefit of fee paying schools - unless you can pay top wack for future contacts. Education from my experience just depends on the school and also the year group - like all schools. My experiences are now out of date and to be fair could have happened at any state school and are not restricted to fee paying ones. The extra tuition I received for my dislexia really was amazing though - and is something I'm really grateful I received. My daughter is also dislexic, at a state school, doing GCSEs and I'm sure her dislexia tuition isn't as good as mine was 30 years ago.

Grammar schools are a bit different though, as there are entrance examinations your child should have peers at a similar level. Although I've heard of some kids who were achievers in primary become near the bottom at grammar and not do as well as a result.

Private schools come in all flavours. From your description, this one will have creamed off the best students from nearby, filtered out the ones with LDs and other things that cost money to address, so I'd expect it will be excellent.
Private non grammars will take those who can pay the fee. Some are great, some are utter crap

I personally know a grand total of two people who have been provately educated. One of them ended up being an oilfield reservoir geologist and retired at about 38 years old. The other met the child of an extremely wealthy Hong Kong financier whilst studying and is now married to them with very little to worry about for the rest of their days.

Take from that what you will. I take from it that - highly dependent on the school - it allows opportunities for either academic development or beneficial social introductions, or both.

FWIW re: the peer group thing, it's a consideration. I was granted a full scholarship to Birkdale in Sheffield when I was about 7 years old. My parents ultimately decided not to accept because we were not particularly well off and they thought I might experience bullying or 'shunning' or similar due to being relatively poor working class. I never really thought about it much at the time, and I've done alright for myself in the state school system.

From my experience (my partner works in one) - masses of confidence.

But that's not necessarily a negative as it goes a long way in this life.

Look at the record of the school – although not subject to the same Ofsted scoring, they do have similar things in place. Our local fee-paying school has lower grades across the board than the state-funded school our girls go to. Don’t just assume that it will be better because it is paid-for education.

Theres a reason why private schools offer free and subsidised places to bright kids from state funded schools. What would their grades look like if they didn't? When I lived in the area Gordonstoun was offering free places for people just for the year they take their exams.

Our lad has always been in private education, he is now age 11.

From a young age it’s daft little things more about social skills, ie how to interact with people, how to eat properly at a table.

As he’s got older it’s things like leadership skills and confidence. As he gets older I can see it will be more about developing him as a leader and networking .

The education itself isn’t any better, but the opportunity is greater

Be careful to choose the school correctly for your child some are very academic focused and will not suit every child.

We recently moved from one part of the country to another. The first private school he went to ticked all the boxes, had a great reputation and looked the part. Something wasn’t quite right though. In the summer we moved him to the more local ‘avg’ private school and he’s loving it

The only cons I can see is that it does become ‘them and us’ as in lads from the local comp don’t mix with lads from the local private school which is sad really

Mrs FD both went to state schools and are doing ok career wise.

I guess the only true positive from private school is that if you come out without good grades, it’s only the students fault, you shouldn’t be able to blame it on the school

Edit: oh and through lockdown education continued as normal just online

It depends what the alternative was. My parents thought the local comp at the time was crap and I’m not in a position to doubt their judgement 40 years later though I suspect it was politically biased. My school was ok, not spectacular, a fair few thick spoilt brats and an unhealthy dose of reverse snobbery as they all tried to prove how unprivileged they were and looked down on any sort of achievement as a sign of being too posh. However we had good (sometimes great) facilities and strong teaching for brighter kids like me.

My wife went to a decent grammar school and there wasn’t much wrong with her education though I think mine was slightly stronger at the top end of achievement levels. I didn’t have kids at my school getting pregnant as happened at her school. Though being almost all boys probably helped with that 🙂

We’ve both got double oxbridge degrees (where we met) and went on to decent scientific careers.

Parental support at home is probably as important or more so than the school environment itself.

Her childhood memories are happier than mine but I’d say I’ve mostly recovered from the experience.

From what I’ve seen ,longer holidays and better drugs.

I’d say that highly selective state grammar schools are probably the best academically since they’re so ruthless.
As noted above, parental engagement is the most important thing, whatever school you go to. Top private school + dickhead parent = messed up kid. See Boris Johnson et al.

Teach your kid to play the oboe, not a euphonium;
They'll get a scholarship to anywhere!

The OP has alluded to it but I would emphasise Tired's point about friendships, and someone else mentioned about teenagers. Does your daughter have strong friendships now, does she want to retain those friendships, do they meet outside of school in organised activities (op mentioned dance) or are they likely to drift apart? How would your daughter feel about that and how does she feel about making new friends? Teenage years can be volatile and everyone deals with it differently. It is a very individual thing.

I come from a privileged background in terms of my home life and have done very well through the state system. I didn't enjoy secondary school but I wouldn't change a thing because it didn't affect my 'academic attainment', I have awareness and empathy for other people's lives, and I have lifelong friendships as a result. I believe if parents are engaged then for the brightest and/or focused which school they go to isn't going to massively affect achievement / grades / opportunities. The OP has already said the daughter is doing dance, presumably outside of the school system.

Went through this a few years back. Schooling has changed a lot and it depends on the school and child. My daughter goes to a local mixed private school (Chris Hoys old one actually). Massive mix of people there - loads of normal people working to give their kids a better educational as well as loaded melters who roll up in Lambos. All the parents I’ve met are entirely normal and I just avoid the ones in red trousers and tweed jackets ! Main things I see are a focus on non academic things and a much more positive approach. I am state school, and was booted out as well so not exactly a stellar background !

I'll give you my experience/opinion.

I went to Bolton School which is private. Obviously I didn't also attend any of the local schools for comparison.

Smaller class sizes and therefore.more attention. Often around 25.

Few, if any disruptive children. Teachers were never trying to control the class, just engage them. We had some brilliant and inspirational teachers (and some dicks to be fair). We covered more than the basic requirements of the nat curriculum. Lots of this was "how to think/critique stuff not just learn facts".

It was quite competitive, although maybe that was me. I've never struggled academically but I know some kids found it harder. They were getting good grades but in a skewed environment it didn't seem that way.

We had exceptional facilities:-

Large sports pitches to cover all seasons.
Swimming pool. Theatre. Climbing wall, Outdoor pursuits centre on Ullswater.

Loads of extra curricular options. I found my love of the outdoors through 19th Bolton Scout group (linked to the school). And BSOP (Bolton school outdoor pursuits) where I learnt to climb, kayak and sail. 4 friends and I were supported to apply for a grant to do a 6 week self led expedition to Canada after our A levels. I did something similar the year later as still eligible ( another 6 week exped). There was other stuff too, lots of science clubs, sports clubs and drama. We had alumni come back and give talks. Some of them were quite good at what they did. I still go to some now. Sir Ian McKellen, (rip) sir Harry kroto, high ranked military people, international diplomats, senior QCs, doctors and so on. Lots of inspiration to a young person.

Mentoring and guidance was good. None of the stuff like UCAS or picking university ever phased me. We got coached through things like that. We did things like practice interviews and had 1:1s with the head master to discuss plans and options for the future.

Trying to think of some negatives:

It was expensive, how my parent afforded the fees for three of us I don't know. We were on assisted places and lived in a three bed house in Farnworth.

Some people were not poor, although that never bothered me (naive?). In sixth form it was usual for boys to drive themselves to school! I couldn't go on some of the more expensive trips (Skiing, Summer trip to USA or China).

Competitive I mentioned. I was a straight A student but it was hard if you struggled.

It can insulate you from other people. I think Bolton School had a good mix of culture and social status. Single sex buildings though. It's hard to be posh growing up in Farnworth anyway.

Getting the bus to school in the blazer was,at times, character building - as in I took it off to hide!

If I had kids I'd send them there.

Just being a private school doesn't make it a good school. I'd make sure it is before any decision. It needs to fit your kids.

I'm not sure about the peer group thing above. I keep in contact with a few friends, two I'm still close too. One is a games designer. One has retired in the US at 40. The school tie has never helped me. Perhaps the most help is a sense of self confidence and belief. I spent my school years being told I could do anything and then being given examples of people who have done great things.

Lincolnshire. I belive only us, Buckinghamshire, Kent and Northern Ireland still have grammar schools? I wait to be corrected)

Wirral. In fact there's only one fee paying grammar here (boys only, the girls school changed to an academy) as the local grammars are successful.

Scholarship boy here. It turns you into an exam machine. Most boys from my old school seem to be accountants or lawyers. Lots of time on holidays and class size of 21.

I had always looked back on those days with affection until I had kids go through the school system and now am really quite bitter about the snobbishness and lack of support from the teachers. If your face fitted then you were fine; if not then there was no catch fence. I was known for the first few years as "the boy with the broad Yorkshire accent" across my yeargroup (spoiler: school was in Yorkshire).

When I told my 6th form tutor I wasn't going to apply for oxbridge he literally looked at me like he's trodden in dogshit and ignored me for the next 2 years. Because it affected his figures, I guess.

Apparently drugs are a big problem in many private schools due to spare income.

Eldest is at a state grammar here. I would only send a kid to private school if they had certain needs and would benefit from the smaller class sizes. I would care more about the pastoral care that was entirely lacking in my school.

Edited to add, single sex is good academically but does not prepare you for life. A mate was telling me he went from 14 years of single sex education to a uni course where 130 women stared at the 10 men in their first lecture...

Over my many years of barbering the biggest observable difference is the confidence they exude. This may or may not be linked to wealthier backgrounds.

I’ve got friends from less well off backgrounds who are now in careers that would be unthinkable without getting the chance to attend a private school

Interested to know what careers are unthinkable without a private education? I can't think of any.

My son goes to (selective) private school, I did it for two reasons

1. I think the education will be better than he would get from the comprehensive school that he would be able to get into, ie our catchment area.
2. I want him to have a good education to enable him to make the right decisions in life.

I didn't go to private school myself, so far I'm on the fence as to whether going private is the right choice, it's a shed load of money.

One things for certain, if private schools and selective grammars were banned, the money invested and quality of state education would go up!

I’ve got friends from less well off backgrounds who are now in careers that would be unthinkable without getting the chance to attend a private school

My peer group at the comp include a doctor, a high level engineer, a CEO, A top research scientist who became one of the top in the world in his field, a townplanner,

MY father was a top education professional.  His take on the academic side of things was that if you were academic type it made little difference.  If you were not you were better in a comp, if yo sat in the middle of the ability group better in the comp as in a fee paying school you would be at the bottom of the pile and would stuggle

I certainly believe the wider aspects of socialisation and so on was good for me for personal development but my good pal from the schemes who went onto become a doctor believes he would have done better in a fee playing school - he perhaps did not need that socialisation aspect

The other aspect is that kids from fee paying schools do less well at further education that someone with the same exam results from a comp because the kid from the comp has learnt self study rather than be directed all the time

One poster above alluded to this happening to them

Two observations.

One, we paid for our son from 3-13 (when we moved north and school within a sensible distance). He's early 20's now and one thing he's got that his friends haven't is the ability to fit in comfortably across the majority of social & work situations.

Two, when in my more 'jet-setting' jobs the vast majority of my colleagues were privately educated, earning good money with lawyer/accountant backgrounds. Only real reason I was there was that back then IT was seen as a 'Grammar School' skillset rather than something taught in school/uni. I could see how easier it would've been to get on with their background, and while I worked with lots of bright folk, there were also a fair number of knobs (who wouldn't have got anywhere without the door been already open to them).

If you don't take the place, you'll regret it IMO and she may regret it more...

As noted above, parental engagement is the most important thing, whatever school you go to. Top private school + dickhead parent = messed up kid. See Boris Johnson et al.

Absolutely this. Although private schools can sometimes fill that gap. From people I know who went to private schools, they have a greater expectation of success and hard work from the pupils, which may or may not suit the kids personality, but I've also seen the same at high performing state schools.

If the kid wants to try it, let them try it. It might suit, it might not. Don't let the complete **** wittery of our privately educated political class fool you into thinking that is how all privately educated people turn out.

But the immediate answer that springs to mind to the OPS question is "much better quality drugs"

OP - I've not read the rest of the thread.

We had friends who got similar scholarship for thier daughter.

She really, really enjoyed it and benefitted from it. Solid support from teachers when it was needed, a broad set of opportunities. She thrived there against some personal challenges.

The downsides for daughter was a constant comparison of how wealthy the others were - try inviting a 15 year old friend round who has thier own suite of bathroom, bedroom and lounge to your ex-council semi.

Downsides for parents - although a ful scholarship they had to pay for expensive uniform, breakfast club, and many trips that were not included.

On balance it was good for her.

Sadly the school went bust the year of first exams, she sat last few years in local state school. Which was a good school, but didn't support the challenges (ADHD+) at all really.

My peer group at the comp include a doctor, a high level engineer, a CEO, A top research scientist who became one of the top in the world in his field, a townplanner,

Yes, but you're in your late 50's/early 60's and the world has changed VASTLY since then.

Also you're not had kids to be able to see the difference to when we were in education and growing up - social mobility is IME going backwards to before our and our parents time, and will get worse before (or even if) it gets better again.

MY father was a top education professional. His take on the academic side of things was that if you were academic type it made little difference

Good point - my lad went to a secondary school that narrowly avoided special measures. He's just finished his first term at Cambridge.

The downsides for daughter was a constant comparison of how wealthy the others were –

A very good point - through Scouting I know a lad who went to the top state school in the County, which (chicken and egg) is in a very expensive town. He wasn't well off or sporty and had a hard time from idiots who thought parental wealth gave them rights

Accepted intheborders I did allude to that in my first post

As per my first post it very much depends on the choice of schools and the kid involved as per my comparison between me and my pal who became a doctor

I do strongly believe education is about far more than just exam results.

I do strongly believe education is about far more than just exam results.

So much this.

And a well funded private school has resources to offer a broader set of experiences and tailored support.

I'm not convinced that the teaching standards are much higher.

Fwiw, I've spent the last 5 years working with a group of (very expensive) international private schools. They are brilliant and thier pupils get a lot from the education experience they offer. But I've seen just as good, if not better more regularly, teaching in state schools across the UK.

You already know the private school is outperforming the others in your area.

If, as you say, you can afford it then it's a no-brainer.

Had experience of both. Hated school all the way through. Private, though, hands-down. Class size alone makes life easier, without all the other advantages.

You're not gaining by "mixing with all walks of life" at a young age at state schools. At that age there's more benefit from having a less disruptive environment. You've the rest of your life to mix with whoever you want. Only one chance at school tho...

My thoughts on some of the comments above.

The first private school my son went to was completely about the parents showing off their wealth it really was a case of upgrading the car based on what everyone else had in the car park. Interesting when we turned up in our knackered Mondeo

However schools since then I’ve not seen that snobbery at all. The fact is though that most of the kids there, the parents have worked hard and made their money so why not have nice things. Most I have spoken to are perfectly nice normal people who work bloody hard to earn lots of money

Education style - my son isn’t spoon fed, in fact they are already very much installing in him independent learning. At 11 he knows how to research and and reference etc.

Mrs FD is a top surgeon in an international field and went to a comp in Mansfield. Most of her peers went to private school, it does stop her being one of the best, but at times she does see subtle leadership/confidence skills that are installed in them that she has to work at, plus the ‘old boys network’ really does make life easier.

My cousin too went to a comp, and then Oxford. He is a top CEO and worked at that level in many companies, advised to government etc. He says it’s not a closed shop to mingle in those circles but a private education and Oxford/Cambridge university certainly make things easier

Parenting is also key keeping that fine line between confidence and arrogance in check

Interview scenario...

"So you went to school with Rupert"

IME the staff are invested (or paid well enough to be)
We had teachers who spent every single weekend running trips. Paint balling, canal boating, sailing, "quad bike safari". Every single weekend Big Mike and Sharon spent running those trips.

Subsidised by the school, so they were all 30quid all in, which is for two full days activities,accomodation and food.

Most staff on site and available till 11pm at least one night every week.

My sisters husband is a teacher at one, and he seems to love it. Spends his weekends jollying about with Cadets, seems to enjoy the late shift in the boarding houses. Bashes all his marking out in school anyway, so seems quite efficient.

Point is, he enjoys it, i suspect hes very well paid for the trouble, and he doesnt have to tolerate ****bag kids.

RE our illustrious leader. I dont get the impression "going to Eton" facilitates being PM.
I suspect the PMs that come out of Eton were not the top of the class. Top of the class at Eton has better paid things to be doing that running the country as PM. Like running the country behind the PMs back.

My own experience (from the 90's so not exactly recent...!)

My younger sister and I both went to the same private school in SE London. There were 3 schools loosely linked: 1 all boys, 1 all girls and 1 mixed.

We were both on scholarship places, there's no way that our parents could have afforded the full fees. My Mum was a teacher and she knew what a lot of the local comprehensive schools were like, it was a case of best opportunity for us rather than a class or wealth thing. There were definitely some very wealthy families there but it was a fairly broad background and very little of it ever seemed in your face, there was no "my dad is a millionaire" type stuff or overt snobbery that I ever witnessed.

Academically it was very good, there wasn't much disruption and it was well funded enough to have good science facilities plus opportunities like Latin and half decent IT department.
Loads of sports options - our school was very much hockey and football whereas the all boys up the road was a known as a rugby school. We had an excellent pool, tennis and fives/squash courts and a running track and gym.

It was the extra curricular activities like Combined Cadet Force and DoE which made it stand out though. I did so much with the RAF Cadets that I'd never have got a chance to outside the private system. My sister did a year in Army Cadets then switched to DoE.

Teaching (back then) was a bit varied. There were some excellent teachers but equally a couple who simply wouldn't have survived as teachers outside the relatively comfortable confines of that environment. Generally though, pretty positive and a lot of the teachers were very into the DoE / Cadets / outdoors side of things too with various extra trips offered. Our chemistry teacher used to take small groups of us on walking holidays.

I don't think it unlocked any doors though, there didn't seem to be a sort of fast track back door Old Boys Network - it certainly had its share of the stereotypical "private school" like a house system, Sixth Form common room, prefects and so on but it wasn't Eton by any means!

Ultimately, out of all the secondary schools I looked at, comp and private, that was the one I wanted to go to. I wasn't pushed towards it but I wanted that school and I worked hard to get the grades and entrance exam result to get that scholarship place.

Gross generalisation: not having to share a classroom and the teacher’s time with kids who have massive social problems that need managing instead of just learning the subject.

Very true for me. A typical scenario in my class would be kids setting off the gas taps with flames going across the desks, throwing lit paper aeroplanes at the teacher and worse one stabbing a teacher with a fork.
I managed to do okay but none of that stuff helped. I then went to a grammar school for A levels and saw the other side, relatively rich kids who wouldn't even talk to the likes of me. Neither were great situations and couldn't wait to finish school and had no real confidence in my abilities until I started working and realised most people were not that great.
I would have probably benefited from private school but it may have been a bit too much like my grammar school experience but even more so, who knows.

You want to give her the best chances of having a childhood in which she interacts and socialises only with wealthy people.
The best chance to become overly confident and to struggle to empathise with or relate to the vast majority of people who haven't received a private school education.

I don't get this idea that going to a private school means you only interact with rich people and don't understand how the normals live. It's total bollocks. You can still retain friends from the state system, and shock horror, even meet kids who go to other schools as part of your teenage funtimes.

Some very interesting perspectives here form allsides of this

to the OP have a sift thru and think which scenarios most match your kid and the schools  that you have to chose from.  Plenty of info and insights to help you decide

tongue firmly in cheek - which is worse - being bullied for being a posh smart kid in the comp or being bullied for being the poor oik in the fee paying school?  🙂

All depends on if the school and the child are a good fit, round here (buckinghamshire) the difference between state grammar and secondary is night & day. Eldest went to posh state grammar (run very much like a private school) & didn't fit so we moved him to the tier 2 grammar, middle son went to secondary which suited his abilities, youngest son failed his 12+ purely through exam technique & I would have loved to have paid for him to go private, but he's eventually reached his "level" albeit after 7yrs of university courses - I daren't ask what his student loan is 😳 sending him to private school would have been better for him but I couldn't afford it.

My partner went to a "cheap" private school in London (it was cheaper than moving near a good school apparently).

Her impression was it gave her more confidence and there were more opportunities. i.e. If you happened to be really good at something, there was more chance of being able to excel in it.

She pointed out that had I gone to a private school "things would have been picked up" and I would have done a lot better apparently. Not sure what she was getting at there.

I'd send my kids if they were offered a place (I'm quite academic and went to state school)
My partner wouldn't (She wasn't so academic and went to private school)

You want to give her the best chances of having a childhood in which she interacts and socialises only with wealthy people.
The best chance to become overly confident and to struggle to empathise with or relate to the vast majority of people who haven’t received a private school education.

Or you can go to a state school and develop chips on your shoulders so big that they become blinkers. 😉

It was the extra curricular activities like Combined Cadet Force and DoE which made it stand out though.

This is very true. My lad (and now daughter) have developed so much better socially, in confidence and in general life skills through Scouts, Guides, sports and music activities than through school lessons alone. Yes, they are fortunate we are willing to sacrifice holidays and fancy cars and home improvements to support it*, but any school or group that can offer those opportunities is worth looking at.

*and we are constantly pitching in with the next fundraising event 🙄

Social mobility is an interesting one for me. My lad has gone from a shitty secondary to Cambridge, which is enabling him to meet a big range of young people from a variety of backgrounds (though 70% are now state school iirc) and who knows what opportunities that may give him.

My wife and I were the first in the families to get degrees.

Our dad's were the first in the families to work up to being a manager and be a teacher respectively

Our grandads were a jobbing carpenter and a stoker in the Merchant Navy.

So there is, ime, very much a generational aspect to social mobility rather than an instant fix.

The big rider is that there should be something in place for kids from any background to be able to access support to develop their talents, academic or vocational. That's where it falls down for most kids and families.

Lincolnshire. I belive only us, Buckinghamshire, Kent and Northern Ireland still have grammar schools? I wait to be corrected)

There are grammar schools all over the place, 163 in England to be precise.

Grammar Schools

One other disadvantage of private that strikes me is the current focus on social mobility.

Universities (especially the 'good' ones) are setting quotas for state educated entrants. This will mean that some higher achieving privately educated kids will lose out to kids from state schools with lower academic grades.

In that sense, the private label is a hindrance, and not a help.

Possibly worth some consideration if university is likely to be an option later on.

The bullying angle is an interesting one. I definitely was on the receiving end as the 'poor' kid / outsider joining private late. Then again I used to get bullied as the 'officers kid' as well as being an outsider pretty much every time we moved battalion / school. It was pretty shit to be fair.

I didn't have a problem at uni, and didn't have an issue fitting in, i was studying law so maybe that was it. first job out of uni I learned to keep quiet about my background as their were relentless comments about 'born with a silver spoon' from guys who still lived at home with mum and had cars paid for etc... whereas my stepdad had said 'fund yourself' through uni.... grated somewhat.

I think, with the additional funds I will have by not spending on private school I can enrich my kids lives more than a private education - be that extra activities, learning, holidays etc.. that we couldn't afford if we we paying huge fees. Like I said I might change my mind at secondary. My main concern is getting in with the wrong kids, which can also happen at private school

My 6th form was very small, 30 or so boys. Before I left uni 4 6th formers were dead - 2 drugs related, 1 motorcycle accident and 1 from illness. Not sure how that stacks up on the national average but it felt pretty high

I can't believe the number of people getting the causality the wrong way round. People don't gain confidence from going to a private school. Private schools attract the type of people who think they are better than everyone else from the start. They have that confidence already.

I was offered forced to go to Hutchesons at 14 9. I refusedhated it with a passion and it ruined my life because the hutchie kids were basically dicks

I don’t get this idea that going to a private school means you only interact with rich people and don’t understand how the normals live. It’s total bollocks. You can still retain friends from the state system, and shock horror, even meet kids who go to other schools as part of your teenage funtimes.

Agree. There are so many prejudices in play with this kind of conversation, from both sides. I grew up in a sea side town when no-one wanted to live in sea side towns and the generally accepted career path was either a building site or prison. Thanks to a supportive mum who made lots of sacrifices I managed to get to university where I met people from all walks of life. 30 years later I'm lucky to still have a very close group of friends from uni, between us we came through state schools, grammar schools, private schools funded by the army, and private schools funded by wealthy parents. Some of our kids go to state schools, some to grammar, and some to private.

We all meet up regularly and while there is a good bit of banter about being poor/rich/army brat/etc we are all just people. Our kids might notice the material difference between us all (house size, nice car, whatever) but when you're playing on a rope swing none of that matters, they just see their friends. There is always someone richer than you, and always someone poorer than you but they are all people.

I don’t get this idea that going to a private school means you only interact with rich people and don’t understand how the normals live. It’s total bollocks. You can still retain friends from the state system, and shock horror, even meet kids who go to other schools as part of your teenage funtimes.

Some of my best friends are normals.

Thanks all - some interesting points.

Firstly the school is nowhere near being an Eton/Old boys club school - if it was we'd walk away.
There seems a fair balance to the pupil demographic, so shouldn't be much of the 'I am considerably richer than you' type stuff.

Her closest friends from her current school are going to different schools so no guarantee that they would be together after yr 6 anyway.

She wants to learn, and sometimes feels that she's being held back a bit.

we are also very much hands on parents when it comes to education - we don't just leave it to the school.
It became apparent during lockdowns & home learning that we were very much in the minority there - My step son had work set every day by his high school - which we ensured he did. We spoke to some teachers and he was only 1 of about 10 kids that completed all of the work - some hadn't done any.
Same think with my daughters school, although they had more zoom lessons and the teachers checked in on them outside of the lessons, but there were still those who were very much of the 'not my job to teach my kids' once the zoom lesson had finished.

We are by no means 'rolling in it' - so if it weren't for the scholarship this choice would be off the table.

Daughter had a 'taster day' the week before she sat the scholarship exam, and seemed to enjoy it and was keen to take the exam.

Turns out my MIL has a friend of a friend whose Granddaughter is at the school - now yr 11, so we are going to have a chat with her and let Imogen make up her mind.

Us them, old school tie, accent, nepotism, elitism, exclusion, class system, discrimination, perpetuating a system that stinks.

I started a similar thread regarding our daughter starting at a private school a couple of years ago. She was also offered a scholarship and at the time really didn't want to go as her best friend was starting at the local comp.
She's now in year 8 and absolutely loves the private school that we made her go to !
My observations as a Builder with no private school experience are as follows-
All the kids are motivated to learn and so the teachers interact, encourage and talk to them on a more adult level. They don't have to the issue of controlling disruptive classrooms.
The teaching goes beyond the curriculum into encouraging the pupils to go beyond what they've been taught in the classroom and make there own investigations into the subject.
It does feel as though the school is almost a retreat from real life where many of the problems and issues of a state school education don't exist. My son went to a state school by the way.
Overall, if the child is academic and the school is selective on academic ability then they will thrive and grow in a private school.
There can be no advantage in a clever kid mixing with the less bright and disruptive that I can think of. As adults we know they exist and so try to avoid them.

I can’t believe the number of people getting the causality the wrong way round. People don’t gain confidence from going to a private school. Private schools attract the type of people who think they are better than everyone else from the start. They have that confidence already.

My son was 3 when he started at private school, or are you referring to parents?

Would you like an education that is costing £4k per year or £12k?

A neighbour has just had his 4yr old son expelled from a private school at £14k/year after 3 weeks as his son has quite bad ADHD they the school had no ability (or will) to manage it.

He's now at the local state infant / junior school where he has a dedicated TA assigned to him and is getting on much better apparently.

He’s now at the local state infant / junior school where he has a dedicated TA assigned to him and is getting on much better apparently.

But imagine how disruptive it is for the rest of his classmates though... Lessons being stopped whilst he has a tantrum (for want of a better word), all the kids having to leave the classroom whilst he throws chairs around etc... That's the reality for many kids being educated alongside someone with ADHD, dedicated TA or not.

Whole different debate and not linked to the OP, but a private school can at least make a call as they have to serve the interests of the 29 others (and their fee paying parents) as well as the individual's special needs.