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I seem to have gotten into a pickle this morning with MsGinge. She, being a teacher, is home with the kids over the school holidays and I’ll be off to work as usual most of the time. This morning she suggested leaving the two eldest kids at home while she goes out for a run; I said I wasn’t comfortable with that. Grumpiness and a refusal to talk about it ensued.
So, to gauge my level of reaction rather than collecting ammo for an argument, what age would the great and good of STW halls be happy leaving their kids alone at home? Would there be any conditions you would need to put in this. To be happy with it?
I’ll reserve giving ages for ours just yet in case it biases anyone.
Specifically this would be for short (less than an hour) periods of time but where they don’t yet have any of the own mean of communication (ie mobiles) or access to a landline in the house. Probably more useful to hear from those who have kids now but if you have tales, from back in the day, of being left alone with the dog when you were just two, crack on.
Left our 10 year old a couple of times while nipping to the shops nearby or similar errands, no more than 20 minutes at a time. Not sure I'd leave him to go for a run or something that felt like going out to enjoy myself while leaving him at home. Not really thought about when I'd be happy with that, 12 or 13 maybe?
Depends on the kid.
Youngest Binnerette is eminently sensible and level headed (she takes after her mother) and was quite happy to be left alone from a younger age for short periods. Eldest Binnerette (who is a mini-me) is now 20 and I still worry about her accidentally burning the house down
11ish with our son for short periods.
10 - 11 ish. But our daughter was free to walk and visit friends in the village from 8ish up.
As has been said, hugely depends on the child.
Not sure I'd leave my 20 year old nephew alone in my house! 🙂
but if you have tales, from back in the day, of being left alone with the dog when you were just two, crack on.
Well, if we are going back to the '70s - during school holidays you went out when to play in the morning and came back in when it was dark! Occasionally popping into some mates house to top up on Quosh and a sarnie! This was from about 5 or 6 yrs old.
11 - 12 depending on the kid
Tales from days gone by? I grew up in Glasgow in the 70s. I was walking to school on my own from 9 yrs old and from 11 was riding my bike around the city. By 13 I was youth hostelling without parents
As the father of a 2year old I'm following this with interest - Like a lot of this new parenting...I have no idea of the answer 🙂
Although the fact you're asking the questions means that you and your wife will probably come up with the right answer for you and your family
Totally depends on the kid, but for me 10 or 11 for an hour or so.
Probably 10/11 for an hour or two, but he's very tame. We will have made sure he had our mobile numbers and we had a landline.
As an older teenager he even wouldn't notice we'd gone for days if there was food in the kitchen and the electric and WiFi was working.
Depends on the kid, my eldest would have been fine from 9, whereas my (now) 9 year old wouldn't want to be left at home on his own, so obviously isn't!
As lots have said, depends on the kid. Also depends if they have any younger siblings, as leaving a 10 year old on their own is one thing, but leaving them with a 6,7,8 year old seems unfair, plus they'd probably end up fighting.
Also any dogs? I appreciate that everyone thinks their dog is great and trusts them with their kids, but there are too many stories of kids being attacked by family pets in the news.
But from memory 10-11 is what we did with ours. Since we've had a dog we'll leave the 15 year old with the dog but not the younger one.
Yup, kids are all different but I leave our youngest 10 for half an hour or so when the eldest and I go to karate and before Mrs S gets home. He hasn't burnt down the house even once, yet.
>sepia tones< when I were a lad I'd walk two miles home on my own and start making tea when I was nine. And we only ever had one, fairly minor, chip pan fire. HTH!
Started leaving our daughter for 10min or so from late 10's. She's mid 11's now but if its over half an hour she'd still rather come with us than be left alone.
we were awful parents so they both had phones from about 10 so that's one issue dealt with, what to do if something happened.
Then my daughter from about that age, with her being sensible enough to supervise her younger brother so he'd have been 8. At that age in front of a Disney or Harry Potter film and they'd barely notice.
It would only be to grab a pint of milk, or run one or other of us to the station so less than 20 mins, but we'd have been happy with longer and the barriers came down a year or two later anyway when they went to secondary school and used to walk there and back.
To the OP - if there's no contactability via other means, I'd suggest getting a 'burner' phone and a PAYG sim with just your numbers on it, and then your wife can go out for her run. But maybe do three laps of a 20 min route so she's never more than a few mins away, if she's worried. It'll be good practise for her and the kids, as part of parenting is letting go. And if that's too boring, well, she should have made you wear a hat 😉
(son now 18 and going off on holiday to Portugal for a week tomorrow am.... the current MrsV is struggling a bit with that. Daughter went off to Uni at similar age - no such worries)
I think it's varied over time. I was baby sitting younger kids at age 13 back in the 80's. I also cycled to Winchester one summer at 14 without telling my parents what I was doing, and my dad had to come and get me.
I'd be totally OK leaving 10/11 year olds by themselves for an hour or two, but younger if they're sensible/reliable
My eldest used to bribe his younger brothers* with sweets to make sure they didn't tell me he'd gone out when he was supposed to be babysitting them.
* they are all in their 30's now so I can't remember what ages they were back then.
My Dad once left me in the car while he went to the pub. I think I must have been about 4 or 5.
Was supplied with a couple of chewy sweeties. After 1/2hour or so i got bored and started playing with the controls. Discovered if you pull one of the indicator stalks the headlights flashed. So i did that a lot not really realizing i was flashing the pub windows, which brought Dad back out
He told me to never ever tell your Mother(his exact words), which i didnt until about a year or so ago. She was seriously shocked by it. But as Dad had shuffled off this mortal coil by then, I think he got away with it.
Unless theres an afterlife, in which case he's in serious bother.
if there’s no contactability via other means, I’d suggest getting a ‘burner’ phone and a PAYG sim with just your numbers on it,
Alexa devices can sync with phones and their contacts list so a kid can go up to it and say "Alexa, call Granny P" and it will work like a speakerphone.
11ish or so and with phones should there be any issues. It's the age they walk without parents to school, friends houses, the park etc anyway, so all they need to do in addition is not burn the house down.
@dyna-ti same sort of thing with my dad but at football. Would leave me in the stand in a good seat early 80s when I was 8 or 9 and he would stand at the back as he was used to terracing. Mum only found out when we were writing things down for his funeral last year ...
10/11 from what I remember, just nipping out to the shops etc for 30 mins.
Clear instructions just to get out if there was a fire etc.
Age 14 he is happy to be in the house all day by himself, although we have only done it once, and not really a full day
I was not actually trusted to be left in a house when young. Cant remember how old I was, but I was left. Found a lighter and for some unknown reason thought it would be a good idea to see how the hair type things on a cactus would burn. Unsurprisingly they burnt rather well, as did the curtain next to it !! Luckily brother and I managed to put it out. I got a right b@llocking. Lesson learned and all that, next time set fire to a less dry plant!
I was essentially free range from aged 8 onwards in the 80s.
I'm not sure that my family was the epitome of good parenting though?
My mum worked when I was little, so junior school and up I was on my tod. This was the 60s mind. Our kids, who are in their thirties now I honestly can’t remember. Not much use am I?
ours at 10 for about 30 mins if walk if walking the dog.
initially was worried so kept checking in on the camera and he doesn’t move if he’s glued to a screen.
I’d be more hesitant if he was the type to go wandering round the house or if we had more than one kid to get up to mischief.
My boy is 6. We will leave him in the house for 15-20mins on his own and he is happy. Knows not to answer the doorbell.
Once he starts school in September he will walk there with his mate and will go to the bakery 5 minutes away himself to get stuff for home.
We do live in Munich where the traffic is much better behaved.
At a push I know he would be fine for an hour in front of the tv with snacks.
House phone has Mum and I on speed-dial for emergencies.
From a legal perspective I was under the impression that there was no minimum age, but it was not lawful to leave an under-16 "in charge" of a younger child.
Personally, I reckon it's whatever age you're happy with them walking home from school unaccompanied. In my case, that would have been age 7.
Specifically this would be for short (less than an hour) periods of time but where they don’t yet have any of the own mean of communication (ie mobiles)
I'd say 10 or 11ish depending on the child. All assumed it's just Mum/Dad nipping out for a local run or errands, make sure they know where you're going, when you expect to be back and address the lack of Comms i.e. show them how to use a landline (if you have such a thing) or spare mobile then can use to contact a parent in a pinch.
Clear instructions not to answer the door, turn on anything in the Kitchen (I think our eldest, 15, would ignore that one now TBH) or leave the house for any reason short of a fire.
It's a useful little exercise, make it clear you are trusting them not to do anything silly or dangerous and that their behaviour now contributes to any future decisions on their potential 'freedoms' to do other stuff.
You have to deal with this stuff eventually so whatever age it's at, easing the kids into it and taking the novelty out of them being left alone for short periods is better than having a sheltered 16 year old suddenly testing the limits.
where they don’t yet have any of the own mean of communication (ie mobiles) or access to a landline in the house.
I'm amazed nobody has picked up on this. Have I misunderstood?
There's no way I would consider a kid old enough to stay home alone if I didn't already trust that kid with access/.use of a telephone.
And there's no way I'd leave them alone without it below the age of about 15
turn on anything in the Kitchen
Dons flamesuit, but if you have kids of high school age and they're not capable of cooking themselves a simple meal (I'm talking beans on toast) unsupervised, you're doing something wrong.
My 8 year old is under strict instructions not to use the chip pan when she's left home alone!
Something for the OP to consider (and possibly related to the phone issue) - what happens if the one hour run turns into something longer due to, for instance, a bad fall? Would it be useful to have some sort of contingency arrangement in place and would the child be responsible enough to consider it?
Re the phones thing and communicating I understand it's a concern for todays parents. I think a big problem now is people don't know the people in their communities.
Even as kids in the '70s we'd know where to go to get help, who's door to knock on, and how to do a reverse charge call in a phone box (as kids would have spent any money they had on them on sweets!). There was even a police house in our village.
Similar, I grew up on married quarters (military housing) and the groups of kids I hung about with all knew how to get help, where to go, who not to talk to etc etc, Our parents expected us to just get with on with it.
I let my own son walk to his mate's when he was about 8 or 9 I think (which would've been early noughties), and in the summer holidays they roamed to town by themselves, no harm came to them.
We'd have left my son alone probably about yr 6 so 10-11 ish, maybe would have been earlier but had younger daughter as well. Think I'd want them to have access to a phone though.
As for tales.... I remember putting the kids to bed when they were 4 and 2 or something like that, wife was out and I had a couple of jobs to do in the garage, thought they were fast asleep, so quietly went out of the house and into the detached garage. I'd locked the house up, and let the garage door close behind me. I think I was only in there for about 15-20 minutes but thought I 'd just pop my head out of the door and look up at the kids bedroom window. There was my son staring out of the window crying his eyes out shouting Daddy where are you. I have never felt so ****ing awful in my life!! ?
No phone, so primary school age, 5-10 I guess? That was nip 2 doors down to the shop for a pint of milk , not go for out for a ride leaving them alone age for me.
But yeah, bitd in the 80s, I walked to infants and junior school without parents, came in from junior school alone often, but only to get my bike and go to the bmx track with lots of other kids. My folks would usually go out running longish distances every morning so we'd be alone then, but asleep when they went out. Just got up, poured a bowl of some cereal and got on with being late for school.
Depends on the age of the kids. I occasionally walked the best part of a mile home myself from school when I was 5. Aged 14 was going away overnight camping with friends.
If children are trusted to walk home from school and go out around the local area themselves what is different being in the house themselves for a hour. Assuming no hazards like open fires etc.
Young children no. Teenagers yes. Where the dividing line is would depend on the child
Yr 5 ish for short periods of time and he was allowed to come home from school on his own. He's now yr 7and regularly is home alone for a couple of hours after school and we are happy to go off for a similar time. If we are going biking or longer when there is a chance of significant delays then generally send him to the grandparents.
But he does have a phone now and can call us if needed, without that it'd be different.
Age 10 for 30 mins or so if she doesn’t want to come to the shop or takeaway with me. No answering the door, don’t start any fires.
She’s too young for a phone imo. Honestly, other than being doorstepped by a Jehovah’s Witness (if she broke the first rule) I can’t really think of any dangers that would befoul her. If I’m in a non fatal accident at the chippy I can call a neighbour.
Back in the 80s I was allowed to roam the west end at that age, with a couple of quid and no phone. Pretty sure it would be safer for a 10 year old to do that now than it was back then.
It's very much dependant on the kids. It's already been said that many posters would have left theirs alone at 8 or 9, but not another sibling at the same age.
Mum's a schoolteacher. She knows what goes on when her back is turned to the class, so is desensitized to these things anyway. You're going to be wrong whatever your opinion is on the matter.
Non parent here
As a nipper in the 70s we were generally out most days playing in field and wood. By ,11or 12 walking and taking a train to school. Non of this seemed unusual
These days I doubt it's quite so normal. But for me I think there has to be in place either a phone or a robust understanding of what to do in case of a problem
Daughter has been left for about half an hour since 10, regularly nipped to the shop (minute walk) for years before.
Now getting to the point where she'll be in the house herself for a couple of hours from March, child minder doesn't take over 12s. Need to work up to that.
Dons flamesuit, but if you have kids of high school age and they’re not capable of cooking themselves a simple meal (I’m talking beans on toast) unsupervised, you’re doing something wrong.
Well I was talking about a ~10 year old in that context so Primary School aged. And it's not necessarily that 10 year olds can't use the kitchen unsupervised, but that if I'm only leaving them alone for half an hour how badly do they really need a Bacon Sandwich Vs potentially burning the house down for the want of a parent to respond to shouty panic? many 10 year olds are competent others are liabilities.
I did also note that My 15 Year old would disregard that instruction now, my 12 year old can operate kitchen kit but generally chooses not too without significant pestering, and her avoidance of catering generally means she's less competent with these things still.
But when they were about 10, the simplest rule to implement was just 'don't switch anything on in the kitchen while I'm out', that didn't include the tap obviously.
I was walking the 15 minutes home from school alone twice a day from age 7 (mum would initially meet me part way, then she gradually left it later and later until I was doing the whole thing), so I guess I was probably being left alone while they nipped to the shops (15 minutes kind of thing from a similar age). Certainly by secondary school a morning at home on my own would have been fine.
We didn't get a phone until I was 9 or a TV until a bit after that, but give me a book, lego or an airfix and I'd happily not move for an hour or so. I already understood about "don't **** with gas or leccy", and I was a boring goody-two-shoes spod of a kid who enjoyed being trusted so won't have done anything to upset the status quo.
I can’t really think of any dangers that would befoul her.
Not being a child anymore I guess that you can't remember the ridiculous things you did at that age? The main thing is will you ever find out what she does when she's bored? My parents didn't, mainly.... Off the top of my head -
- using any bed as a trampoline
- using the top bunk plus bedding as a makeshift slide
- searching for Xmas/birthday presents, obviously. If finding them entails a climb up the cabinets then that's good.
- locking myself out of the house and climbing up the drainpipe to the broken bathroom window to get back in.
- mixing anything to find out what it tastes or smells like, or how it splats when it hits a neighbours greenhouse
- what happens when Evel Knievel hits my brother square in the forehead.
- darts or boxing gloves. Need I say more.
- fighting with said brother. He still has a scar my parents thought was from falling down the back steps.
- finding out how much pee it takes to fill up a Jedi light sabre. (Answer 1. not enough. A mess was made. And answer 2, I don't know why I did it, I was 9!)
This is quite therapeutic actually. I might continue later. 😀
I think we started this kind of thing the year before high school, including walking home on his own in preperation. Although I suspect even earlier from a dog walking point of view.
Depends on the kid I guess and how many kids. I suspect you are likely to get bother with more than one...
Well OP - don't leave us hanging. How old are the kids and what was the resolution?
Depends very much on the kid and the location, but 10-11 for ours - sensible kids, locked themselves in, had mobiles, got on well with neighbours.
Back to the OP question, it also depends on the likelihood of you not getting back to the house so if that trip to the shop could be delayed by another 30mins because of whatever, or you go for a run and the route is sketchy that may also factor in the decision as well as the age of the kid.
I have been known to go to the gym late at night when the kids are asleep and it's a short walk there and back (and yes the kids are properly asleep and screens time-locked 🙂 )
Lolz at @Idlejon
I think that I was about 11 from memory? That'd have been mid nineties. We did have a land line, and possibly my parents had mobiles by that point.
My kids,we're cycling home a couple kms from school when they were 7, and no parents home when they got there, so I guess that age
Not too many disasters. I'm a bit surprised at ages like 14 and 15 being too young to be left alone. Not that long till they potentially leave home
Kids are 8 and 5.
Wife decided that she wouldn’t leave them alone at home so she could go out for a run after all. That’s a good outcome.
However, by saying I felt very uncomfortable with the idea of leaving them home alone I was actually implying that she’s the worst person in the world and that she wanted to cause intentional harm to the kids. So I’m a massive ****
Can’t win them all I guess
Depending on the job why not negotiate a couple days WFH, or late start/early finish so you can share some of the load and MrsGinge can go for her run. It's a win/win - she gets a run for headspace, you get brownie points and maybe some extras
wot suspic says
I can imagine your wife is slowly going off her nut looking after two kids all day every day for weeks on end. I'd last 2 days max 🙂
I’d leave our ten year old for half an hour or so. Saying that, last time I did I walked through the door and could immediately smell shit. The dog had curled one out in the middle of the living room floor. Funk Jr was staring at the TV playing Lego Star Wars. Completely oblivious to the stench and giant pile of shit about a foot in front of him! Utter space cadet.
Funkette is six and if you leave the room for a nanosecond something will be broken, spilled, drawn on or on fire. Think it’ll be a while before she’s left alone.
My siblings and I were basically feral from about six and wandered the neighbourhood at all hours. Would pop back home when hungry or injured.
Yeah I'd think 8 and 5 is too young personally.
Out of curiosity, is there any legal guidance on leaving kds at home alone?
To clarify I always make sure MsGinge gets out for her runs (which has included time training for an ultra this year). This is purely about going out and leaving the kids alone.
If it makes any difference she’s done it once before, without me knowing about it, and had a fall. She was quite a way from home at the time and took longer than she thought to get back. No harm to anything other than her knees but didn’t leave me feeling particularly reassured.
8 years old, very borderline, with a 5 year old, hard no. Your wife needs to have hard think about what she suggested, as a teacher more so. You have the financial luxury of not needing to pay for child care as she's free during holidays and I bet you dont get 13 weeks off a year either. I think she needs to consider her priorities.
You WFH looking after them, also not on, You're being paid to work not babysit. Ok in a one off emergency but I dont think your wife going for a run counts. Bit different if they were 11 and 14 but 5 year olds need regular attention.
We did this sort of stuff once kids were in year 5/6 and going to school alone and having a door key. However we are lucky to be close friends with most of the neighbours, so they could go straight to them if needed. Like the time I set the house on fire, we were able to just shove them out the door and tell them which house to go to while we sorted it.
So I’m a massive ****
Might be time for a new patio!! 🙂
100% different for every child. My daughter would have been fine to leave at 6, me on the other hand at 13 thought flaming arrows was the game of choice when mum popped out to the greengrocer for 20mins. Still have the scars.
Happy to leave our youngest at 7 to look after his older brother who was 10. It’s totally kid dependent. And having a neighbour to call on was standard operating procedure before mobiles. They don’t change. The youngest is still the reliable one 🙂
Ours at end of primary were left while we walked a few mins to shop and back - and the lads had all sets of neighbours they knew by name.
By start of secondary they were leaving house and coming home to house on thier own, for upto an hour.
They also went to pals houses across town alone.
By mid secondary we left them all day while we went for a ride/walk/paddle/sofa shop etc.
By 15 they got on a train themselves and travelled to the other end of the country to see gran & grandpa
By 17 they took a car away for a weekend of mountain bike racing.
At 18 they were living independently in Glasgow or Edinburgh.
Progression is where it's at.
Preparation for life, not wrapping in cotton wool.
Out of curiosity, is there any legal guidance on leaving kds at home alone?
No there isn't.
It's Rule No.1 and know your kids time.
If you think they're old enough to know what to do if somebody knocks the front door then they're old enough.
Out of curiosity, is there any legal guidance on leaving kds at home alone?
Yes IIRC. I can't be arsed looking it up tho. two ages - one for being left alone and another for being left in charge of younger children
10ish to nip to the village for half an hour. 13yo capable of being left for prolonged periods.
The law does not say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone, for example at home or in a car.The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:
children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
children under 16 should not be left alone overnight
babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone
https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone
I think there is case law around it as well. I thought there was statute law but there is not
I don't really remember but I know we started with leaving them alone for 5 or 10 minutes whilst we went to the shop for milk etc. My son was 9 or 10 when he started getting the bus on his own to go to the pool for diving lessons. We bought him a mobile and the first two or three times his mum went with him. It was good for him and when we went to his first parents evening at high school most of his teachers commented on how organised he was. My BIL doesn't trust his girls to do anything on their own and I don't think it does them any good.
As an aside, in New Zealand, it is illegal to leave under 14 year olds unsupervised.
https://www.govt.nz/browse/family-and-whanau/childcare-and-supervision/leaving-children-by-themselves/
mine are 11 and 13, the one thing that I won't do if this were to happen, is say 'the eldest is in charge' because my opinion is that kids are not adults. On a psychological level you are asking them to accept adult responsiblity and pressure when they are not an adult - on a practical level its asking for squabbling !
You WFH looking after them, also not on, You’re being paid to work not babysit.
As a single dad with full time child responsibility Sat to Wed I worked from home since 1998 when the kids were 3, 7 & 9 - admittedly I did a lot of work 9pm to midnight & on Thur & Fri, but we don't all have the luxury of co-parenting when trying to keep a roof over our heads.