[Closed] WFH - Overseas

Tax is the big thing but I've got a friend who's worked from Whistler every year for the last 15 years - time zone means he can work at night and ski in the morning.

We've a lot of EU nationals and a few of them have worked from home in their home countries for extended periods over the past year. Usually tagged on to planned visits to family, cleared with HR and IT to ensure they're complying with taking kit overseas as we're civil service.

We are specifically banned from working in a country that we are not contracted in unless you are on secondment for work.

Mainly due to tax liability confusion...

theres potential issues with both tax liability and (depending on your role) signing documents as a representitive of a certain legal entity (if your company has multiple entities in different countries). These might be managable, but might not.

I think the dream of keeping a uk salary and living somewhere hot and cheap will be squished in most companies - its a sure fire way of winding up all the local employees

its a sure fire way of winding up all the local employees

how would they know? how would the employer even know? pretty sure i could have been anywhere in the world for the last 12 months without any issues or anyone at work knowing..?

just go for 90 days at a time... if i wasnt tied down at home id definitely give it go.

How good would it be to work in the Alps for a few months over winter to enjoy the season, or the south of Italy in the summer.

it would be torture when i actually had to do some work!!

A friend of my wife has an entrepreneurial son who is spending the winter working from a rented villa in Bali. He makes Gordon Gekko look like Postman Pat though.

We’ve a lot of EU nationals and a few of them have worked from home in their home countries for extended periods over the past year.

Pretty sure this is illegal post-Brexit.

Now, if working from home becomes the acceptable long term norm, what restrictions are for me to do this overseas in the future?

Assuming you can get residence/work permit, if you're in Spain for more than half the year (or is it 90 days?) you'll be liable to pay tax here. Which basically means you'd need to set yourself up as a contractor ("autonomo") and bill your company; I don't think there's any easy way for you to be a full-time employee of a foreign company as the company would be responsible for paying your social security contributions etc to the Spanish government.

My question is around pay.

I was watching a Kirsty and Phil program at the weekend, with the home owner wanting to move North out of London.

My question is, why should an Employer continue to pay London wages to someone who is working from home elsewhere?

i worked with a guy who commutes to London from Switzerland. Lockdown/WFH has been a dream for him the bastard!! tbf he used to travel from door to door, via Basel and Gatwick quicker than i could drive from Lancs - but now he's skiing or riding alpine mountains every day!

My question is, why should an Employer continue to pay London wages to someone who is working from home elsewhere?

Cos there's no real fair way not to? And a race to the bottom is great for company shareholders, but not ideal for employees?

OK but if I work in Leeds and earn Leeds wages and someone in the same company works from home in Leeds and earns London wages I'm pretty sure this is going to annoy me.

My question is around pay.

I was watching a Kirsty and Phil program at the weekend, with the home owner wanting to move North out of London.

My question is, why should an Employer continue to pay London wages to someone who is working from home elsewhere?

Property prices are still higher and, if you spend any time in The City then the commute costs are still higher as well. So if you do live in the South East you will need to earn more.
But.
If WFH continues long term both of those may change, but it won't be a quick change.

The example above is an interesting one though and I'm not sure how it'd be managed. I suspect many employers will ensure they home workers are within a set time or set distance from an office address.

OK but if I work in Leeds and earn Leeds wages and someone in the same company works from home in Leeds and earns London wages I’m pretty sure this is going to annoy me.

Fair enough, and a good reason to get a raise. But if a company values my work at, say, 75K when I'm based in London, what changes from their PoV if suddenly I'm in Leeds (assuming I'm still available to go into the office when needed / access to clients hasn't changed / etc)? Has my work suddenly lost value?

Re your employer knowing - it depends on the sophistication of their cyber defence function. My work know exactly where every connection comes from, and you can't connect if that information is blocked.

I took my work phone out of the country once with permission - I was told not to switch it on in transit and if asked to by airport staff to put the password in wrong four times to instigate a wipe.

Re your employer knowing – it depends on the sophistication of their cyber defence function.

I did some "work from home" from Paris, with police cars with their characteristic French siren noises going past all day long. No sophistication needed - just ears and Zoom meetings 🙂

I took my work phone out of the country once with permission – I was told not to switch it on in transit and if asked to by airport staff to put the password in wrong four times to instigate a wipe.

007, is that you?

I took my work phone out of the country once with permission – I was told not to switch it on in transit and if asked to by airport staff to put the password in wrong four times to instigate a wipe.

They just make us uninstall the blackberry container when we cross the US border if you have anything sensitive, so you can't be held liable for witholding passwords etc. Ironic for a US company.

Has my work suddenly lost value?

No, but your work was valued at that, as much as anything, because of where it was located.

My question is, why should an Employer continue to pay London wages to someone who is working from home elsewhere?

Would they pay more to someone living in a more expensive area?

Would they pay more to someone living in a more expensive area?

Like London?

Few days here and there to extend a holiday, probably won't matter. I might do this at my sisters house in the Pyrenees if we're ever allowed to leave the country again. Won't be for long periods though.

Would they pay more to someone living in a more expensive area?

they pay more now, as people were required to live in the expensive area to work within a reasonably commute of the (office based) job. with that requirement rapidly changing, it might be that wages start to flatten across the country, and house prices drop in the south east\rise in places people want to live but have longer commutes (I would say the north, but I think this will have much more of an impact in devon/cornwall)

I work from home (cheap part of the midlands) for a large multinational. You could say I get a London wage but I think I'm just paid what I'm worth. I just happen to live in a cheaper part of the country so can afford a nice house! (humble brag ;-))

We have an app where all Business Travel including working from home overseas must be logged. The regulatory and tax topics can be complex and you end being taxed by both countries.

Best to seek proper advice or you could end up breaking the law.

Dr J - I mean if you work cared about cyber security they would know where you are logging in from - they obviously don't care. Who do you work for? Asking for a friend....

I'm pondering 2-3 months in Crete when I can next get there as a trial run of taking advantage of Greece's digital nomad visa scheme.
Full details aren't available yet, but it looks like 50% tax break (fag packet sums indicate that means about the same I pay in the UK - depending on what 50% means) for up to 7 years.

I'd rather be in Costa Rica, but have reasons for Crete.

The chances are my employer would be ok with it - I just have to be sure I'll be motivated to work while I'm there...

This is a slippery slope towards all our jobs being Offshored!

Although the MRs and I have been thinking of moving to the hills eventually. With more WFH I could probably swing being in the office a couple of days a week (1h30 commute, overnight then 1h30 return) and WFH the rest....

I work for a large multi national, we have in excess of 75,000 employees. I could be in anywhere in the world, we have secure systems but are forward thinking enough to acknowledge our staff have to travel, we certainly can’t put geographical restrictions on people.
But I can work from anywhere in the world, company don’t care as long as no local tax rules are being broken. Before kids came along and we ended up tied down for schooling reasons, Mrs W and myself would regularly spend 3 months in Florida (we have a holiday home) plus 3 months in Spain, returning via France.
My boss is based in Austin Texas, prob quarter of the staff I deal with are US based with the remainder dispersed throughout Europe. It would probably make more sense for me to start work at 1200 UK time and finish at 8 or 9, but I’m not going to suggest that!

There is the risk that the company could be assumed to have a local business and therefore the business becomes taxable in the country you are in. Place I work for had this happen and the liabilities were eye watering, not sure how it was resolved.