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Only had one week's leave booked this year (work as a contractor through an agency) for September, arranged back in March and signed off by both the agency and the company I work for.
Planned to get the last warm weather of the year and lo and behold, a phonecall this afternoon telling me that the company had changed their minds and I would be working the whole of September. No, there is no discussion. Yes, they've tried appealing directly to senior managers.
So... that will mean seven months worked flat out with no time off, and a grand total of one week off in a year and a half. Think of the money...
All that time working for the same employee (even through an agent) - don't you start to accrue holiday entitlement and a legal right to take time off?
working time directive!
You have a legal entitlement to paid annual leave and you must take it.
Don't pilots only work something like 20 hours a week full time anyway. Not that I'm having a pop, but I suspect the strict rules around flying time trump work time directives and holiday entitlement etc?
Ohh shit TJ agrees with me.
Bollocks.
depends how strong a position you feel you are in but you coudl put your foot down/throw a sicky.
Been there mate, just as you say think of the money. Make hay while the sun shines and all that!
You must have 4 weeks leave a year - no ifs buts and ands - its a legal requirement.
Holiday pay can no longer be a added onto to your weekly / monthly pay.
You cannot elect to work your annual leave, you certainly cannot be forced to. Your employer is breaking the law
And in this case is the agency or the 'employer' *legally* the employer?
depends on a few factors MF.
( a bit out of date)
And in this case is the agency or the 'employer' *legally* the employer?
OP has said he is a contractor, not temp. I would assume he's either working for his own limited company or an umbrella company.
OP has said he is a contractor, not temp. I would assume he's either working for his own limited company or an umbrella company.
But the OP says
through an agency
If he's contracted does that not mean he can choose when he works so is exempt from the working time directive. Holiday entitlement is just over 5 weeks or 28 days IIRC. You can also opt out of these and work overtime during your holidays if you want.
Its not really that simple when contracting as you are usually on a 3 month contract as a resource, not as a particular person. So its not the clients business if you take holidays. You could in theory force the issue but if there is a project which has deadlines which have slipped etc, you just need to be adaptable. Otherwise you risk getting axed come your next extension....
You've got a job, be gratefull
Working time directive doesn't apply for agency workers. Even with changes due in October with the AWD it won't have any impact because I'm technically employed by an Irish agency, contracted to a UK company.
Oh yeah... I'm working through an umbrella company but that company contracts to an agency, who provide flight crew to major airlines. That's the theory, anyway!
WTD still applies to agency workers.
However an irish agency? Dunno - Might be getting round it but depends where the work is being done.
Remember you can also elect out of the WTD!
No you can't munge chick - you can elect out of the maximum 48n hr week - thats all - you cannot elect out of the mandatory rest periods or annual leave requirements
You've got a job, be gratefull
Don't forget to doff your cap while you get shafted.....
No you can't munge chick - you can elect out of the maximum 48n hr week - thats all - you cannot elect out of the mandatory rest periods or annual leave requirements
I think tj you might have very limited experience of the real world with regard to this.
"A bit out of date"
Freudian slip?
You've got a job, be gratefullDon't forget to doff your cap while you get shafted.....
Yes Sir....
If you cant elect out of mandatory leave how come I can sell holidays back to my employer? As this would push me below the 4 weeks per year leave.
Well, either your employer and all their expensive human resources lawyers are wrong and TJ is right, or *shock* TJ is wrong!
OMG sky just fell in.
crispo - can you really sell back and end up with less than 20days a year?
If you cant elect out of mandatory leave how come I can sell holidays back to my employer? As this would push me below the 4 weeks per year leave
Public holidays count as leave. I think if you actually try and sell below the limit you'd get knocked back.
The law is quite clear on it. Companies break the law all the time. 🙄 You were allowed to sell holidays back until a year or so ago when advice from the government clarified that you still had to have the minimum- which is 4 weeks paid time off without work each year.
vinnyeh - MemberI think tj you might have very limited experience of the real world with regard to this.
Not really- TJ's telling you the law, the fact that lots of people break it doesn't make any difference. The speed limit here's 30mph, if I was caught doing 50 I wouldn't say "You've just got very limited experience of the real world"
The opt-out is specific to the 48-hour week only.
Must admit never heard of "YOU MUST TAKE 4 WEEKS PER YEAR IT'S THE LAW!".
Can't see anything on .gov either about it.
Northwind - Member
Not really- TJ's telling you the law, the fact that lots of people break it doesn't make any difference. The speed limit here's 30mph, if I was caught doing 50 I wouldn't say "You've just got very limited experience of the real world"
Not reall - a totally different analogy - Police don't enforce WTD stuff, it's up to the individual, therefore many emplyers get away with it and it goes unchallenged.
What's the sanction for not taking 4 weeks then?
.gov doesn't have details of every law.
To the op, have you booked and payed for a holiday?
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This should be a good read for you
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/productsandservices/practicenotes/holidaysickpay/4467.article
"2.2 How much statutory paid annual leave do workers get?
A worker is currently entitled to 5.6 weeks' paid annual leave consisting of four weeks' basic entitlement (Reg 13(1)) and 1.6 weeks' additional entitlement (Reg 13A(2))"
"2.7 Pay in lieu of annual leave
Statutory annual leave cannot be replaced by a payment in lieu except where the worker's employment is terminated (Reg 13(9))."
So can't be replaced by payment in lieu, that's not the same as you have to take it. Which means the employer has to give you it not that you must be on holiday for 28 days per year.
Drac - ModeratorSo can't be replaced by payment in lieu, that's not the same as you have to take it.
Well, yes, it is. You have x days of mandated holiday, and they can't pay you to work instead of taking them.
Granted but you can volunteer to work overtime.
It talks about payment in lieu for not having them, that's not the same as saying I would like to work that day as overtime please.
I'm sure the CAA wouldn't be entirely happy that they had 'tired' crew missing holidays time.
No you can't drac - you have to have 4 weeks without work (20 days)
Maybe I'm misinterpreting but that could be the issue with it, as it's not exactly clear that the employee must take it. To me it purely suggests that the employer offer you and can't offer to buy it off you unless your getting finished.
Drac - ModeratorGranted but you can volunteer to work overtime.
It talks about payment in lieu for not having them, that's not the same as saying I would like to work that day as overtime please.
It is [i]exactly[/i] the same. Paying you to work when you'd be on holiday is payment in lieu regardless of how it's dressed.
I have certainly been told by my employer that we are allowed to sell back holidays but there is a limit by law which you must take, think it's 20 days plus BH, or maybe 20 days in total. I am currently working O/T when I should be on holiday. Will be checking with my boss on Monday as to where I stand legally as I'd prefer to be paid. I'll be sure to update the thread 😉
Planned to get the last warm weather of the year and lo and behold, a phonecall this afternoon telling me that the company had changed their minds and I would be working the whole of September. No, there is no discussion. Yes, they've tried appealing directly to senior managers.
Personally, I'd tell 'em to swivel. And if they copped a strop I'd tell them to swivel again.
this is great news i'm going round all my customers tommorow and ask them for my thier share of my 'holiday pay' i'm sure they'ii all respect the WTD and i'll be going home with a box full of cheques.. ding dong..
totalshell - I take it you are self employed - the only people who are exempt.
take 'em later?