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All the clever people leaving Scotland ?
Have a look around the world Ernie_Lynch, it has been happening for many years. The pace at which it is happening is only going to increase. People have realised that the Scotland they thought the lived in and loved is a figment of their imagination and now that it has been made clear they are off to pastures new.
Ernie. I think I've made it pretty clear the my point is about presentation and mood.
Which utopia are they going to?
And after they leave they will reduce the likelihood of a future yes vote, or do they just want live somewhere sunnier? 😉
I wonder if the impending brain drain from Scotland was considered as a potential outcome of a No vote. It may well just be my extended circle of acquaintances, but there are a lot of highly qualified people making firm plans to leave Scotland forever.
Was that the prospect of going through the whole charade again?
Why leave Scotland, we are all told what a brilliant place it was and so much better than England. In many ways, correct (awful beer aside)
What makes you think that they are looking for Utopia? Scotland and indeed the UK at present is shit. There are plenty places on the planet that are not as shit.
One of my favourite cognitive biases:
Hostile media effect - The tendency to see a media report as being biased, owing to one's own strong partisan views.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases ]Wikipedia[/url]
Like where? You pointy failed to name any. 😉
NW they may be curious but your answer will be biased based on the receivers bias [ and possibly your].
Whilst I would not get a tin foil hat out just yet it seems unlikely the years and years of research only bore fruit in the last week and they rushed the news out.
YMMV and we will never know for sure
Having a job that allows lots of travel makes me appreciate that the UK is anything but shit. Bloody marvellous place to live and work (both sides of the border)
The lack of appreciation of how lucky we are really grated during the whole referendum process. We don't know how lucky we are....
Thm just for you to lighten the mood. The SNP leader elect sporting the greatest afro with a fringe, ever! 😆
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seosamh77 - MemberErnie. I think I've made it pretty clear the my point is about presentation and mood.
So now it's the "mood" as well as the presentation that you don't like ?
But you're alright about the article itself, or doesn't that matter ?
She has had some shocking barnetts in her time hasn't she!!
Are you sure that's not David Sole without the head bandage? 😉
It doesn't matter. I haven't a Scooby what oil there is and isn't.
Having a job that allows lots of travel makes me appreciate that the UK is anything but shit. Bloody marvellous place to live and work (both sides of the border)The lack of appreciation of how lucky we are really grated during the whole referendum process. We don't know how lucky we are....
That all depends on how you define shit and the perspective with which you view that shit. I can confidently predict that you have benefited from living in the UK. Many people whose efforts you have benefited from have not benefited from living in the UK.
Emigrate then? There's all that lovely green grass just over....
For such a shit place, amazing how many people seem to want to come and live here.
Must be time for some team bonding maybe the entire population could go and do some team games in the woods somewhere or maybe just hug a Scott day.
Fwiw I don't think the UK is shit. I do think it can be better.
Indeed THM.... To be born in England is like winning first prize in the lottery of life!
Traffic's a bit shit though!
teamhurtmore - Member
Having a job that allows lots of travel makes me appreciate that the UK is anything but shit. Bloody marvellous place to live and work (both sides of the border)The lack of appreciation of how lucky we are really grated during the whole referendum process. We don't know how lucky we are....
This 😀
Not travelled a lot but agree with this 😆
Emigrate then? There's all that lovely green grass just over....For such a shit place, amazing how many people seem to want to come and live here.
That's the plan. Professional registration has been obtained, visa has been applied for and job is just about sealed. Melbourne is my destination - have more family there than what I have here. Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job. Living costs will be comparable.
As for the second part of your comment - as I said, it depends how you define shit and where you're looking at that shit from.
Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job.
It's all me, me, me.
Just be prepared for zero access to land for biking unless it's a specified place, much higher health care costs, higher alcohol tax and a few other surprises like a climate change denying right of the right government that makes cmd look centrist.
It's not all bad but there are some great things about the UK I miss. Posted while having eggs and bacon in a great cafe in Melbourne. It's also in the middle of a massive property boom where are you planning to buy?
It's all me, me, me.
If you can't beat them join them.
Plus it will give me the perfect opportunity or stepping stone to get to where I want to go with my career.
Just be prepared for zero access to land for biking unless it's a specified place, much higher health care costs, higher alcohol tax and a few other surprises like a climate change denying right of the right government that makes cmd look centrist.
It's not all bad but there are some great things about the UK I miss. Posted while having eggs and bacon in a great cafe in Melbourne. It's also in the middle of a massive property boom where are you planning to buy?
There is more to life than biking. Plenty other sports that I enjoy doing. Me and my family will be getting private healthcare as a benefit of my job. I don't drink much alcohol. I like a bit of climate change denying action. I have looked at property prices, compared to Edinburgh there are pretty cheap for what we'd be looking to live in. I'm not seeing many drawbacks to be honest. Besides it's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't.
Absolutely, just think your being optimistic on some stuff, private medical rarely pays for everything don't forget the nice hidden taxes like stamp duty on houses and cars. My living costs are probably comparable but I live in tassie which is significantly cheaper for housing. Just wait for the school fees.
As I said earlier I have more family in Melbourne than I do in Scotland. They have given me all the information I need. School fees wont be an issue. Probably will rent a house rather than buy.
I'm not seeing many drawbacks to be honest.
You're not broken hearted about leaving Scotland then. And you claim this attitude is typical of many Yes supporters ?
So much for the claims made on here that voting Yes was a selfless act and that selfish people were voting No.
I wish you all the best with your move but of course if you wanted really green grass you should have chosen New Zealand. (this is a weak weather joke).
wanmankylung - Member
Emigrate then? There's all that lovely green grass just over....
For such a shit place, amazing how many people seem to want to come and live here.That's the plan. Professional registration has been obtained, visa has been applied for and job is just about sealed. Melbourne is my destination - have more family there than what I have here. Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job. Living costs will be comparable.
As for the second part of your comment - as I said, it depends how you define shit and where you're looking at that shit from.
Due a re visit next year to my wife's ex colleague who emigrated to Canada when their Scot Gov dept went t**s up a few years ago. On the first visit I/we didn't see anything that was an improvement on life in Scotland 💡
I've always stated Scotland has its fair share of bastards, and that day 1 was just day 1 in a battle! 😉ernie_lynch - Member
So much for the claims made on here that voting Yes was a selfless act and that selfish people were voting No.
Point of an is to me was a smaller fairer battleground!
Point of an is to me was a smaller fairer battleground!
Well according to the last few posts it seems you're going to get that with a No vote.
I've also always said if people want to leave, good luck. Just creates openings for others, no one is irreplaceable! 😉
wanmankylung - MemberIf you can't beat them join them.
I'd rather you didn't tbh. At least not for a couple of years, right now both Scotland and the rUK needs the momentum created by Yes to drive forward the desire for change as much as us possible. Upping sticks and emigrating will only help yourself. It won't help the poor, it'll just help the rich to reinforce their position. I know your angry, but right now running away will not improve the lot of those struggling.
Well not know for certain of course, but there was always going to be some movement of people regardless of the result
The moon could also have a chewy caramel middle,about as likely as 700,000 people leaving here. But since it posts a negative view of the impact of a yes vote,it is obviously factual and correct as far as this thread is concerned. One good thing about the fact that this will rumble on is that maybe,just maybe,THM won't move up here.
since it posts a negative view of the impact of a yes vote
The person who brought up the alleged imminent "brain drain" is a committed Yes supporter.
wanmankylung - MemberI wonder if the impending brain drain from Scotland was considered as a potential outcome of a No vote. It may well just be my extended circle of acquaintances, but there are a lot of highly qualified people making firm plans to leave Scotland forever.
Posting 'a negative view of the impact of the no vote' appears to be the motive.
For the guys moving to Australia, hopefully you have read about the politics here.... Before you slag the UK system off completely maybe google Palmer United, Jacqui Lambie etc. Its a great country Australia, but a lot of people have very rose tinted spectacles about life down under.
Melbournes great though, enjoy!
The moon could also have a chewy caramel middle,about as likely as 700,000 people leaving here. But since it posts a negative view of the impact of a yes vote,it is obviously factual and correct as far as this thread is concerned. One good thing about the fact that this will rumble on is that maybe,just maybe,THM won't move up here.
Never claimed it to be factually accurate. As with the estimates of 200,000 leaving in the event of a No vote. You don't [i]really[/i] know until your actually in that situation where a move is imminent.
Which is why I used the term "some movement" and "we'll not know for certain"
And senator Ricky "shit flicking" muir great pair of political heavyweights.
Never claimed it to be factually accurate.
While the headline to the article might be misleading the actual article makes it clear that "would think about leaving" was what the survey found.
A imagine most people in most countries have at some stage thought about leaving, most however don't, obviously.
The person who brought up the alleged imminent "brain drain" is a committed Yes supporter.
Correction That person WAS a committed Yes supporter. They now no longer give a shit about Scotland, because their vision of Scotland doesn't exist. Personally I hope the Tories ruin Scotland. The No voters made their bed, they can lie in it. It wont effect me as I wont be here.
Scotland has not changed over the past week from the wonderful place it has always been. Since when have yS stopped giving a shit. They simply lost and have been struggling to accept that. It seems they give a lot of shit and on an on-going daily basis.
Why would you want any party to ruin Scotland? And the Tories have little say after all.
Did you miss the "nah, nah, ni nah, nah" out? Seems like you must have been planning your exit well before the referendum. Scorched earth policy?
Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job. Living costs will be comparable.
I thought Yessers didn't care about money?
Me and my family will be getting private healthcare as a benefit of my job.
What's the cover like? Cos in the USA at least, private healthcare only covers so much.
In my experience, people who emigrate cos of some complaint about the UK either realise that the problem with their life wasn't the country in which they live and/or spend the rest of their lives banging on about how great their new country is and how shit their old one was, almost as if they have to keep reaffirming their point.
They now no longer give a shit about Scotland, because their vision of Scotland doesn't exist.
Wow, talk about fair weather friend.
Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job.private healthcare as a benefit of my job
Just wait for the school fees.
Hold on I thought the script was that us No voters were money grabbing scum, obsessed with only their own gain?
Personally I hope the Tories ruin Scotland. The No voters made their bed, they can lie in it.
So your true feelings for Scotland are revealed. I'd say you've also won the gold medal for flouncing.
Personally I hope the Tories ruin Scotland.
By making it more like Australia? 🙂
Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job. Living costs will be comparable.
@wan I think you've been mislead on living costs. I see you are planning to rent rather than buy a house (much more expensive than Scotland) and you have to factor in things like pension savings.
Enjoy it, its a great country, just a b***dy long way from anywhere
As for the broader brain drain discussion I am sure there are those who are disgruntled and may up-sticks but the situation would have been far worse with a Yes vote.
not really, people still give a shit. And accept it. 50,000 people joining parties would allude to that. That's a lot more tanglable than a pretty referendum scare story.teamhurtmore - Member
Since when have yS stopped giving a shit. They simply lost and have been struggling to accept that.
I hope they don't stop giving a shit.
Scotland has changed a large number of it's people are coming to / trying to come to terms with fundamental questions about their own identity. They are also trying to answer a question about national identity. do Scots exist? If you think people can go through something like that without changing and thereby changing the place they live in you have a very different understanding of people from mine.Scotland has not changed over the past week
While I do not share Wanmankylungs opinion I can understand the deep well of grief and bitter disappointment from which it comes.I believe there is a pressing need for reconciliation in Scotland In my opinion a number of no voters want a better and fairer Scotland, and are expecting Westminster to deliver change as promised and on time. Yes supporters,and the pro independence parties should work together with those moderate no voters within the union context. This does not mean people have to change their opinions, just that Scots have to work together.
They won't, the yessers, I hate that name, are far from broken.
Some still think well get Indy in the short term mind. But I think most think it's inevitable long term.
Personally I don't know if it's inevitable. What needs to happen short term though is that the Scottish parliament needs to change. We need to work towards getting the Westminster parties out of holyrood and creating a different opposition than is currently there.
I suppose the inevitability depends on what happens elsewhere. If it's 'business as usual' well I dont think that bodes well.
Also, understanding Scotland as 55% no. Instead 45%+ a significant amount of no voters that want change won't help either. I was listening to the debates in the Scottish parliament yesterday. That message hasn't got across to some.
Federalism is inevitable in the long term, I reckon.
see I disagree with this, for some, a lot aye. But its only half the picture. Change is the over riding theme.gordimhor - Member
They are also trying to answer a question about national identity. do Scots exist?
Scottish identity is pretty solid.
[s]a number of[/s]most no voters want a better and fairer [s]Scotland[/s]UK
Fixed it for you. S'OK don't need to thank me.
Fixed it for you. S'OK don't need to thank me.
Glad you can speak for all 2 million no voters. I'll be sure to check with you next time I want to know something about an all encompassing mass of people of which you probably only know a few hundred.
Everyone wants a better fairer society, world peace and another bike or two. Where people differ is how to achieve those goals.
I think its very positive, the increase in SNP memberships. It shows increasing interest in mainstream politics.
I'll be sure to check with you next time I want to know something about an all encompassing mass of people of which you probably only know a few hundred.
Be sure to check with Big Gordi too, a moment ago he was speaking for a number of the 2 million.
No need to check with me BearGrease as I didnt claim to speak for any no voters but merely expressed my opnion
but thanks anyway 🙂In my opinion a number of no voters
Edit Point taken that the vast majority of people want a better fairer society,I should have said that in my opinion a large number of people on both sides can reach agreement on how we can build a fairer society.
,I should have said that in my opinion a large number of people on both sides can reach agreement on how we can build a fairer society.
In my opinion 😉 that is a fair point and we can only hope that progress is made towards that goal.
One of my reasons for voting No was that I know there are regions in the UK outside of Scotland that face problems that are as grave as any of those faced by less fortunate residents of Scotland. They need our assistance too, we shouldn't turn our back on them.
They now no longer give a shit about Scotland, because their vision of Scotland doesn't exist. Personally I hope the Tories ruin Scotland. The No voters made their bed, they can lie in it. It wont effect me as I wont be here.
Champ - you should take a few days off from the internet because you're being a bit melodramatic.
bearGrease - Member
,I should have said that in my opinion a large number of people on both sides can reach agreement on how we can build a fairer society.In my opinion that is a fair point and we can only hope that progress is made towards that goal.
One of my reasons for voting No was that I know there are regions in the UK outside of Scotland that face problems that are as grave as any of those faced by less fortunate residents of Scotland. They need our assistance too, we shouldn't turn our back on them.
They need a voice though, they won't get it in westminster. imo, a northern parliament, or regional parliaments are a must.
molgrips - Member
Federalism is inevitable in the long term, I reckon.
Remind me to pop back with my snake oil and magic bean business. ConsultyKerching with all that government and no clue.
mikewsmith - Member
molgrips - Member
Federalism is inevitable in the long term, I reckon.Remind me to pop back with my snake oil and magic bean business. ConsultyKerching with all that government and no clue.
Just because it doesn't work in australia doesn't mean it can't work elsewhere.
They need a voice though, they won't get it in westminster. imo, a northern parliament, or regional parliaments are a must.
They will get a voice if they elect politicians that are committed to serve the interests of ordinary working people.
Regional assemblies/parliaments are an excellent idea, however unfortunately there won't be much progress made if voters choose self-serving careerists to represent them.
The problem is that the electorate likes self-serving careerists, look how much more successful than other Labour politicians Tony Blair turned out to be.
Successful in winning elections and furthering his personal ambitions of course, not in serving the interests of ordinary working people.
look at how much the current government spends on advisors and consultation, why would regional be any different. Shooting fish in a barrel while taking candy from a baby.Just because it doesn't work in australia doesn't mean it can't work elsewhere.
ernie_lynch - Member
They need a voice though, they won't get it in westminster. imo, a northern parliament, or regional parliaments are a must.
They will get a voice if they elect politicians that are committed to serve the interests of ordinary working people.Regional assemblies/parliaments are an excellent idea, however unfortunately there won't be much progress made if voters choose self-serving careerists to represent them.
The problem is that the electorate likes self-serving careerists, look how much more successful than other Labour politicians Tony Blair turned to be.
Successful in winning elections and furthering his personal ambitions of course, not in serving the interests of ordinary working people.
How do you inject an interest in politics? And get people to take an interest in who their politicians actually are?
Most advanced democracies have some sort of devolved/federal structure. Of course the electorate are never satisfied, but neither are they in countries with centralised structures.
While I would like to see it change somewhat, I have to say the scottish parliament has been very successful in it's short lifespan.mikewsmith - Member
Just because it doesn't work in australia doesn't mean it can't work elsewhere.
look at how much the current government spends on advisors and consultation, why would regional be any different. Shooting fish in a barrel while taking candy from a baby.
Inject an interest? Education you have to expose people to it, engage them, not talk to them like soundbite idiots. I have an active interest in politics and hate the dumb down news. Even the youth station here in Oz has a semi serious news discussion every day with people who can communicate with young people.
The biggest step would be to move from my dad voted X so I vote X. Don't associate thatcher with all tories or blair with all labour. Policy by issue not by ideology. Coalition can work with a mixed agenda being the outcome.
How do you inject an interest in politics? And get people to take an interest in who their politicians actually are?
Sorry I need to get back to work 🙂
Start a thread on the subject ?
Policy by issue not by ideology
Now this is a contentious point, I think...
Aye, think you may be right, diverge the question away from this.
Well as I'm here and another 15mins before my flight and the business lounge bar is free...
If you disagree with my position debate me don't just oppose me, persuade me but accept that I'm persuading you. Our view points may be different but our views equally valid. Shake hands after and accept the result.
People need to be engaged and understand what the process is. In some ways the unelected house of Lords is a counterbalance to the self serving election seeking commons members. They can consider and question without fear of expulsion. This questioning is a good thing in some ways. In Oz the upper house is on 6 year terms to help avoid short termism.
Heriot Watt paper was published in 2013. Why have the BBC chosen to publish the news release now? Surely it could have done it last week no?
I don't know why people think it's just the BBC, its a press release (ie HWU marketing) that has been picked up by many news channels, even the SNP!
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/sep/new-technology-underlines-bright-future-sector
http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/2014/09/heriot-watt-university-updates-north-sea-eor-studies.html
http://news.stv.tv/north/293300-heriot-watt-university-new-technology-could-extend-north-sea-oil-life/
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-science-technology/new-technologies-could-add-decades-4316741
http://www.energyvoice.com/2014/09/technology-boost-oil-reserves/
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/life-of-gas-and-oil-in-north-sea-could-be-extended.25414609
This tin foil hat conspiracy stuff is getting really daft.
What makes you think that they are looking for Utopia? Scotland and indeed the UK at present is shit. There are plenty places on the planet that are not as shit.
George you do know about Australian politics don't you?! If you don't like UK politics then you are really going to struggle with aussie politics.
A Russian friend was commenting on this whole referendum thing, she was amazed how unappreciative we are of how good a quality of life we have here, how free and well off we are yet people still complain and claim it is terrible. I'm inclined to agree with her!
bigjim - Member
A Russian friend was commenting on this whole referendum thing, she was amazed how unappreciative we are of how good a quality of life we have here, how free and well off we are yet people still complain and claim it is terrible. I'm inclined to agree with her!
Well that's an easy one, we have a good quality of life because we question every aspect of it, and continually do so.
When we stop doing that, it'll regress. I utterly reject people that say you should be happy with your lot.
I don't think we are unappreciative, we just know there's always room for improvement.
[i]When we stop doing that, it'll regress. I utterly reject people that say you should be happy with your lot.
I don't think we are unappreciative, we just know there's always room for improvement.[/i]
Blimey...you really do accentuate the negatives don't you? We can all find this to complain about, believe me, but you are living in a country with the most amazing scenery, coastline, golf courses, and open space, you are free,(assummed) healthy and young (ish) and have your life ahead of you.
You're a long time dead....eternity is forever and you're worrying about what exactly??
I don't think looking to improve is negative? How do you work that out?
btw, i'm speaking from a UK perspective here.
[i]I don't think looking to improve is negative? How do you work that out?[/i]
The point is, we are always trying to improve our lot as a nation and compared with just 25yrs ago,(let alone 50yrs) things have changed hugely. But you have to be careful what you wish for sometimes....
Is that not what i just said?
why are you trying to argue?
The point is, we are always trying to improve our lot as a nation and compared with just 25yrs ago,(let alone 50yrs) things have changed hugely. But you have to be careful what you wish for sometimes....
Foodbanks would suggest that they are not changing for everybody though.
[i]Is that not what i just said?
[i]
why are you trying to argue?[/i]
From what you are saying, its like trying to improve things is an original idea![/i]
I'm saying its not and that you can't please all the people all the time. Sometimes you have to count your blessings.
PS. Lucky we have food banks for people that need them....they didn't have them in past times when the need was there.