[Closed] Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

Monster Loonies had it right with "extend the channel tunnel to Jersey, mainland Britain becomes a tax haven". Modern politicians are thinking of legacy and personal gain rather than doing good for their constituents...

No, wait... if Scotland leaves, Cameron will look really bad. That might be funny.

Can someone just give us an executive summary on why someone thought it was a good idea..

Why on earth did the No campaign choose Gordon Brown to give a speech the day before the vote?
I think Salmond has a (small) chance; and if he loses, he will keep coming back.
He is a very impressive politician and people underestimate him. Btw I'm agnostic Aye or Nay.

Why would Salmond resign? Even if he doesn't get independence he still secured extra powers along the lines of the Devo Max option they originally wanted on the ballot.

I'm thinking a huge UKIP presence and the English govt booting out the Gingers ..

I'm busy trying to work out what to call my consultancy firm which will be milking helping the scots with independence for several decades....hoping for the cash cow that is a yes...

Spolier alert!

I really thing the government want the Scots to go it alone, it wil be well cheaper for them. They just need to go through the motions to make it look like they want them to stay.

There's a bag of idiots burst on this thread, and they're everywhere! 😆

[quote=GrahamS said]Why would Salmond resign? Even if he doesn't get independence he still secured extra powers along the lines of the Devo Max option they originally wanted on the ballot.

This thread will be like when you debate road tax on twitter ...dont be bringing facts or reason here

coolhandluke - Member
I really thing the government want the Scots to go it alone, it wil be well cheaper for them. They just need to go through the motions to make it look like they want them to stay.

HAhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA good one 8)

cloudnine - Member

Can someone just give us an executive summary on why someone thought it was a good idea..

I know! What idiocy, all we've achieved so far is a promise of much greater devolution from every Westminster party (despite being told we weren't even allowed to ask for it 3 years ago) , the retention of the Barnett formula which they all said was on its way out the door... Oh and the general public re-engaging with politics on a scale not seen in the UK since universal suffrage. And we've not even had the vote yet. Makes you wonder why we bothered eh?

project - Member - Quote
Just pre empting what is going to be announced on friday morning, followed by salmond resiging and geting a good job in some scotch company.

If he quits he'll probably get a job with some Ingerland company

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

I think westminster played a blinder offering 'devo max', kills future votes dead, if this was a yes for devo max or nothing then we'd be having the same argument again in a few years, now it's kicked into touch for at least a generation.

Why should Scotland get extra powers if they lose?

I foresee a return for Gordon Brown to political leadership, and I'd hope it be in Scotland as there are no credible Labour MSPs (or Conservatives or Lib Dems for that matter)

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Man you been a naughty boy. You let your face grow long
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
I am the walrus, goo goo goo joob

quite apt, I think you'll agree

catschroedinger - Member
Why should Scotland get extra powers if they lose?

The only thing we will give you back is Gordon Brown.. You are welcome to him

I am gutted, I wanted them to go.
Up until this reforerendum I always loved them like a brother from another mother and did not think of them as foreign, just a bit more stabby with an abrasive accent.

But now I am building a genuine resentment of all things scottish (except west highland terriers, everyone loves a westie).
To the point I would even support France fervently over Scotland in all competitions sporting.

My only consolation is the that all the wingeing yes campaigners did not get their way and will be crying into their porridge.

(If the yes vote actually wins the day my greatest sadness will be the loss of the union flag but will be exited about what we will do with all our spare cash now we don't have to support them.)

catschroedinger - Member

Why should Scotland get extra powers if they lose?

Because the extra powers are only being offered to try and win a No vote. It's the price of keeping the union, essentially.

Course, if Scotland has extra powers that another region covets, they can try and get them too. If not, they're choosing to have less power. This won't stop anyone complaining of course- never has before.

Why should Scotland get extra powers if they lose?

Have you not been paying attention at the back? They essentially cant lose.

(If the yes vote actually wins the day my greatest sadness will be the loss of the union flag

Why should we not have the Union Flag?

The blue bits on it will be a constant reminder to the Scots what they gave up.

Cameron will look really bad. That might be funny.

I don't think he'd care - it would virtually guarantee a Tory government for ever and a day.

And the blue but on the Union flag could represent Tory!

Should definitely keep the union flag. It's my flag, represents my history. Plus it would cost a bloody fortune to change them all around.

if Scotland leaves, Cameron will look really bad

Or be seen as the hero who got rid of the financial ball & chain and gave all the rich folk tax-cuts. 🙂

Perhaps we could lose the blue from the flag and get some green in there to represent Wales instead.

I wonder if they do vote yes, in years to come they could come back into some kind of federal situation or commonwealth...

chip +1

So lets turn this around and say...Salmond has already won, and you just haven't realised yet?

From a standing start, Scotland has a form of local representation unprecedented in the UK, that shames the ruling elite. And then to cap it all, during the last 2 weeks, we get an embarrassing volte face by the main parties on what would have been a key offering on the ballot paper.

On all the front pages!

He's implacable, and despite my loathing for him, he delivers. No matter what happens on Friday, it doesn't end then.

If you don't get what this is about yet, its about having some form of democracy where you have a fair chance of getting what you voted for. Fair is the operative word.

I wonder if they do vote yes, in years to come they could come back into some kind of federal situation or commonwealth...

Federal EU most likely - which is the biggest reason cited amongst the Yes voters I know: they are pro-Europe and feel that rUK is becoming strongly anti-Europe.

Can someone just give us an executive summary on why someone thought it was a good idea..

Mel Gibson.

I am still somewhat surprised that Cameron has made such an effort in the No campaign. If Scotland leaves it reduces the labour majority quite significantly and I would be surprised if we saw a non Tory government for a long time. The Scottish provide a decent balance that if removed puts Cameron and co. in a really strong position.

Labour won 41 seats in Scotland in the 2010 General election. Compared to 1 Conservative. That would be a big loss for supporters of Labour south of the border.

That's the only reason I still hope for a No vote.

Can someone just give us an executive summary on why someone thought it was a good idea..

The John Oliver report was very funny. Possibly [url=

link[/url] might work.

and yes, it list Mel Gibson as a reason....

Before I go out and vote, can I add: apologies if you're English and reading this, but can you just take your petulance at somehow being 'snubbed' out of this and grow up a bit?

Its nothing to do with where you grew up, its about spending most of your life watching a govt you didn't elect do things you don't approve of, and then seizing a chance to change things. It should speak volumes to you that most Scots accept that its going to be tough, but want to do this anyway.

Thats how much getting a real voice matters. We're desperate for this, can't you see?

And project- you spelled 'independence' wrongly.

We're desperate for this, can't you see?

We don't care.

CB It's unfortunate that it's a government that I didn't vote for either, and your people north of the border help to sway things in a more positive direction by your presence in the union. We're politically more vulnerable to Tory PLC without you and that worries me. That's why I don't wish for you to leave.

I can see that you are desperate for it but I'm not sure how an independent Yorkshire campaign will go.

And then to cap it all, during the last 2 weeks, we get an embarrassing volte face by the main parties

See - this is pure spin.

"We want X"
"No"
"We really want X"
"Ok then"
"Ah you spineless scum, embarassing u turn etc etc"

FFS

its about spending most of your life watching a govt you didn't elect do things you don't approve of, and then seizing a chance to change things.

So should every region of the UK who didn't vote Tory split too?

We don't care.

🙂

Fair play to Salmond for maneuvering this into a win / win situation.

Yes - he will somehow get to keep the currency despite what is said
No - he get's everything he wants anyway.

I loathe the guy but hats off to him for achieving his aims.

I'm busy trying to work out what to call my consultancy firm which will be milking helping the scots with independence for several decades....hoping for the cash cow that is a yes...

I've been thinking the same thing - a fricking bonaza anyone with a suit and nice template for writing reports. Other than that if you're livelihood in anyway depends on the public sector and the big institutions doing stuff then your ribs are going to be showing for the next few years.

I wrote a feasibility study once, possibly one of the most desperately dull things I've ever done for money.

And thats possibly as aspect to the ballot not everyone is thinking about - all the things an independent scotland [i]could [/i] be will only come with time and consensus and the voter-faith and dedication to hang in for several parliaments, accept the mistakes and misadventures at will come from trying to change and reconfigure and consolidate all the mechanics of operating a country and keep voting for and pay for a country thats still over the horizon somewhere (and that many may never live to see. Until then, or without that, scotland won't be 'independent' it would only be separate.

its about spending most of your life watching a govt you didn't elect do things you don't approve of, and then seizing a chance to change things.

The reality of democracy is between the periods where the gov you didn't elect does things you don't approve of are periods of a gov you [i]did[/i] elect also doing things you don't approve of. I can't summarise all the things I approve of by putting an X in a box every 4 years.

I'm not really fussed either way, but really don't understand the sneering petulance from the English.

Salmond's approach to things doesn't help.

I'm not really fussed either way, but really don't understand the sneering petulance from the English.

We still don't care.

Lifer - Member

I'm not really fussed either way, but really don't understand the sneering petulance from the English.

what, all of them?

So should every region of the UK who didn't vote Tory split too?

Well you can and you should.

You also should have voted for proportional representation a few years ago, albeit it was the weaker Alternative Vote system offered. The Lib Dems should have pushed harder for STV when selling their souls.

You still might not get what you voted for, but you will have a fairer reflection of seats and representation.

And one last thing, Labour need Scottish MP's, but they do not need them to win in the UK. It is the mythical middle England where power is won or lost.

I do not find that acceptable, but many of the posts on here and in the main referendum thread appear to be very happy with this state of affairs.

Well you can and you should.

So rather than one country you'd rather have a patchwork of tiny independent states across the island?

You're an idiot, I'm afraid.

many of the posts on here and in the main referendum thread appear to be very happy with this state of affairs.

I don't think so - seems pretty unanimous that we need significant change. No voters (and me) just think this isn't the right change to make.

What? they didn’t win 🙁 can they have a recount or change the way the votes are counted? the poor wee jobbies.

I believe I'm a net contributor to the economy, society, culture and basically everything. Can I declare independence?

exited about what we will do with all our spare cash now we don't have to support them

You've not been paying attention really, have you? back of the class boy!

To the point I would even support France fervently over Scotland in all competitions sporting.

Lifer - Member
I'm not really fussed either way, but really don't understand the sneering petulance from the English.

That's just Woppit 😉

And don't assume that every non-Scot in the UK is English. It's Union of two kingdoms, a province and a principality.

and Yorkshire.

You're an idiot, I'm afraid.

You're afraid I am an idiot? Cheers, I'm flattered. I actually agreed with your previous post regarding a federal UK, and was implying that in my post. At least a split with the present system anyhow.

You advocate that change is necessary, but if Scotland accepts the status quo, where will this catalyst for change come from? I can't see greater devolution being a vote winner in the shires when all parties will be fighting tooth and nail against UKIP.

Shame the Scots have the balls to go for their own currency

I am still somewhat surprised that Cameron has made such an effort in the No campaign.

He doesn't want to go down in history as the man who lost the union. I have to admit, Salmond has played a blinder - securing far more of the vote than the SNP's share, and at worst he gets a whole load of freebies for Scotland.

So should every region of the UK who didn't vote Tory split too?

The tories have just one MP for the whole country - not something you could say about Wales for example.

It's Union of two kingdoms, a province and a principality.

Well, as a Welshman I dispute that 🙂

[img] ?oh=5875f57b5913e7d0c838d32994d6590a&oe=54C2DA2D[/img]

[i]It should speak volumes to you that [s]most[/s] some Scots accept that its going to be tough, but want to do this anyway[/i]

FTFY

We're desperate for this, can't you see?

so are a lot of people with unreal targets that they know deep down they will never achieve , just by using the 4 words " let common sence prevail" before they say anything.

And don't assume that every non-Scot in the UK is English. It's Union of two kingdoms, a province and a principality.

For all the chirping people should remember how they do this sort of thing in over so called civilised countries.
Not seen any snipers in Glasgow, Salmond under house arrest or tanks in Northumbria 'training'

First win to the No camp: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29263022

No: 19,036
Yes: 16,350

Wondering if I should stay up all night to watch them come on. I would never do that for a general election but I am more concerned about this one.

Wondering if I should stay up all night

No point.

It's 1.01 on betfair.

think i'm the only one here but I have a test running so have to stay up.

Another no, this time from Orkney and a bigger no at 67%.

Going to be a while before the big areas declare though.

ah no, there is other life around. Funnily enough (your username) my test involves some carbon fibre...

At this time in the morning?. I hope it involves beer as well.

already had half a bottle of wine. I am tempted by a beer but test just finished and I have to be up at 8 🙁

Ach aye the NO

Waiting for Dave and Alex to say their pieces on Today.

The new thing: "English Votes For English Laws".

Just to balance out the news until the election.

Pleased and disappointed at the same time. Hope it triggers something better for all of us.

Well it looks like it wasn't as so 50:50 as it seemed it was going to be. I have to say though, out and about it [i]actually[/i] looked and felt like Polling Day yesterday. Here in my sleepy ayrshire village the old folk had put their sunday best on to go and vote. Regardless of what the outcome is and whether you think the result was favourable, I hope people can continue to manage to give this much of a **** in future elections.

Mel Gibson has just released a statement, "Braveheart was only meant to be a bit of fun and should never have been taken seriously. Sorry 'bout that guys".

That's nice of him I think.

Good result. Hope it brings more powers to the regions, including God's Own Country 🙂

I hope people can continue to manage to give this much of a **** in future elections.

This

America now realises we have oil, "freedom" could be arriving any minute!!