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About time more people stood up to the CA.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/07/countryside-alliance-bbc-sack-chris-packham
He was speaking up against illegal activities don't forget, do the CA really want to be seen to be tacitly supporting criminality?
In my view, it is important for those living in rural or semi-rural areas to make sure people don't think we all support hunting and the illegal killing of birds of prey.
Edit: I changed the link
Linky no worky
Oops,
Or
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/07/countryside-alliance-bbc-sack-chris-packham <
In his column in October's edition of BBC Wildlife magazine, Packham criticised conservation groups as being “hamstrung by outdated liaisons with the ‘nasty brigade’ and can’t risk upsetting old friends” in rural communities.
Matt Swaine, editor of BBC Wildlife, said: “Chris Packham is clearly expressing [b]his own views in the column[/b] and part of BBC Wildlife magazine's role is to be a forum for exactly this kind of discussion.
I've liked him ever since his "Chris Moyles is a celebration of mediocrity" rant on Room 101.
he has some funny ideas about urban foxes too. this is what happens when you hand somebody a platform to speak to the masses who’s verbose but has nothing to say.
he should team up with the equally moronic Russel Brand and Stacey Dooley.
he has some funny ideas about urban foxes too. this is what happens when you hand somebody a platform to speak to the masses who’s verbose but has nothing to say.
Strange that, I thought the CA were up in arms because he HAS something to say. Which I happen to agree with wholeheartedly. He has a degree in Zoology and decades of experience. I therefore think he is reasonably qualified to make the comments that he has. People who disagree with him obviously don't wish to acknowledge his position, fair enough, but he is respected by a wide community.
I find him irritating and likeable in about equal measure.
Packham criticised conservation groups as being “hamstrung by outdated liaisons with the ‘nasty brigade’ and can’t risk upsetting old friends” in rural communities.
He has a point but I would never tire of hoofing him in the slats, he really bmw and gmg's
I couldn't believe how old he is!
I think that BFSS have missed the target on this one
Packham has for a long time been one of the more moderate presenters, and has repeatedly spoke out in favour of deer stalking and fox control etc. and rarely criticised game shooting, rightly recognising a number of the beneficial impacts and pointing towards a favourable comparison with other countryside industries - I think his criticisms, where levelled, have been in the main targeted towards unacceptable practices and I see nothing wrong with that, however I do think that he veered towards a lazy poke with the 'nasty brigade' references etc, and I think that his skill and knowledge should have kept him above that.
He's no 'fat controller' thats for sure.
I find him irritating and likeable in about equal measure.
is he just another Clarkson for the bbc?
I've always respected his outspoken style - loved the fuss when he said he would eat the last panda to try and make a point.
Sadly his pragmatism didn't extend to the proposed road race circuit at the Derby velodrome. The problem with getting a celebrity involved is that they encourage lots of people with no local knowledge or experience to get involved in causes that don't actually affect them, distorting the debate.
Win some, lose some, I guess.
Wasn't he twitching Michaela Strachan? OT that obviously...
MrSmith - Member
he has some funny ideas about urban foxes too.
What ideas?
[i]is he just another Clarkson for the bbc?[/i]
Pretty much the polar opposite, I'd say. Doesn't have delusions of being a comedian for one thing.
IdleJon - MemberWhat ideas?
he says we shouldn't lose any sleep over them, and it's even ok to feed them once in a while.
he says we shouldn't lose any sleep over them, and it's even ok to feed them once in a while.
I dont get why thats 'funny'?
I thought Packham was excellent in Street Fighter 2...
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He's very, very annoying.
I agree with much of what he says, but his sulky petulance at the fact that people won't do what he wants, NOW! reminds me of a two year old.
STATO - MemberI dont get why thats 'funny'?
now try pretending that you're a daily mail reader.
Foxes are evil vermin, they'll definitely try and kill you and your children. They probably killed Diana. Foxes cause cancer, and there needs to be a cull.
etc.
Foxes are evil vermin, they'll definitely try and kill you. They probably killed Diana. Foxes cause cancer, and there needs to be a cull.
....only the "migrant" ones. Coming over here, taking jobs away from British foxes....
it's a "funny idea" as in "I don't agree and I know best". Have you forgotten this is STW?
A spare 20 minutes tracking down his desert island discs wouldn't be wasted. He's a pretty complicated character, self loathing doesn't begin to touch how he talks about himself.
It's difficult listening at times, how someone can feel so uncomfortable in their own skin and how he feels about some of his close relatives.
Foxes on bikes are evil vermin, they'll definitely try and kill you and your children. They probably killed Diana. Cycling foxes cause cancer, and there needs to be a cull. They don't pay road tax and look stupid in their Lycra. The rise of foxes on bicycles has lead to a sense of entitlement, especially amongst the tree-hugging anti-roadkill brigade with their contempt for everything from rabbits to red lights
FTFY 8)
Hmmm.. he's Ok in my book he gets:
7/10 for ideals
6/10 for his gurning capabilities
7/10 for outlining the Countryside as a place to live and work
8/10 for adding his sardonic personality
5/10 for his choice of outdoor clothing
3/10 for musical taste
Is he also deserving of credit for the national television, prime time statement of "is there nothing better than a bit of black cock in the morning?"
I've liked him ever since his "Chris Moyles is a celebration of mediocrity" rant on Room 101.
And for that reason alone he's alright in my book too.
Just don't try and sit on one of his chairs though
MrSmith - Member
he has some funny ideas about urban foxes too. this is what happens when you hand somebody a platform to speak to the masses who’s verbose but has nothing to say.he should team up with the equally moronic Russel Brand and Stacey Dooley.
Let's see your your CV on the same subjects, so we can see just how much experience you bring to the discussion.
As you live in London, I'd suspect very little, your knowledge of wildlife I'd suspect being largely restricted to feral pigeons, rats, gulls, foxes and parrots.
He's a lot more realistic about human/wildlife interaction than some presenters, and talks more sense than some, too.
Good taste in music, as well, but I'm in no position to criticise his sartorial choices...
I've absolutely no idea who Stacey Dooley is, never heard of her, but comparison with Brand is facile, as Brand is ignorant about pretty much everything, but talks as if he knows everything, and uses his celebrity status with the ignorant and impressionable to get lots of publicity, which makes him obscenely rich.
I'll see a couple of 'urban' foxes later on when I ride home from work. ( Well slightly urban, ex-industrial land, maybe even suburban, near-ish the city centre sort of thing) I tend to see a couple, along with bats, rabbits and the occasional owl.
Should I worry that they will mug me and steal my bike after eating my face? 😆
Britain is a genteel country indeed: a place where a TV presenter calling someone "nasty" in a nature magazine is the cause of angst. We are lucky to live here.
Would the STW collective dislike him more if I tell you the OH saw him eyeing up ebikes in a shop in Buxton a couple of months ago?
Only so he could chase the fox...
I quite like Stacey Dooley (BBC3 tracking drugs) as well as Chris Packham, I didn't expect to but sometimes she asks some fairly searching questions
Only so he could chase the fox..
😯
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ps, ever noticed the remarkable similarity between biker fox and Terry Nutkins?
Ffs, I am just about to eat
Let's see your your CV on the same subjects, so we can see just how much experience you bring to the discussion.
As you live in London, I'd suspect very little, your knowledge of wildlife I'd suspect being largely restricted to feral pigeons, rats, gulls, foxes and parrots.
i dont have a C.V as i have never needed to produce one for a job, but to indulge your suspicion I grew up in a small rural village spent a fair bit of time on big estates as well as small farms, family were in the gunsmithing trade, uncle was a gamekeeper. shot since i was old enough and used to go foxing/pest control at night a fair bit.
now living in London (opposite a nature reserve though) i have to make do with the foxes eating babies nappies out the bins though we do have owls here and i had a jersey tiger moth in my bathroom a couple of weeks ago. was lucky to see a pair of cornish choughs last week while on holiday (3 pairs of kestrels but sadly not the peregrine falcons resident in the area).
so while i didn’t study wildlife at higher education level and have no formal qualifications in the subject i have some experience of U.K. wildlife and am fairly good at at identifying stuff, probably a little more than most londoners.
not that it matters if you know your stoat from a weasel or can tell a crow from a rook to be allowed to form an opinion on urban foxes and i dont think you need a BA in the subject to post on here? 😕
not that it matters if you know your stoat from a weasel
That's easy:
One's weasily identified and the other is stoatally different 🙂
not that it matters if you know your stoat from a weasel or can tell a crow from a rook to be allowed to form an opinion on urban foxes and i dont think you need a BA in the subject to post on here?
Yes, but if you call someone "moronic" because of their, fairly mild, views on something then it seems valid to question the strength of your position. FWIW, having a bin and knowing what a fox looks like isn't really a strong start.
If you're going to have a pop at someone without actually bothering to explain [i]why[/i] you take issue with their stance, then don't be surprised if someone picks you up on it 😀MrSmith - Member
not that it matters if you know your stoat from a weasel or can tell a crow from a rook to be allowed to form an opinion on urban foxes and i dont think you need a BA in the subject to post on here?
well this is his position on urban foxes
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/10359130/Chris-Packham-urban-foxes-can-live-harmoniously-with-humans.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/10359130/Chris-Packham-urban-foxes-can-live-harmoniously-with-humans.html[/url]
my opinion differs in that i see them as vermin and not to be encouraged in the inner city*, yes people like to see them as they feel they are seeing something ‘wild’ but given the choice i would see them discouraged rather than encouraged like Chris advocates.
i have also seen the laughable results of a ‘repatriation program’ where city foxes were trapped and released in the countryside by doe-eyed do-gooders so that farmers could shoot them as they stood in the fields looking for a bin to empty.
*the attacking people in their homes is just a side issue that i have no real opinion on as it’s so rare but it’s possibly the closer contact with humans in the city plus feeding them that made this possible**
** no proven peer reviewed scientific research done by me, sorry 😐
Packham said reports about foxes attacking humans, going up the stairs in houses and allowing themselves to be picked up were “improbable.
He's a monster burn him!
I don't have a strong opinion one way or another, though I do think it's a bit rich for us humans to complain about 'urban' foxes, having concreted over vast swathes of their natural habitat! I guess I lean towards live & let live.
I got attacked by a squirrel at the weekend in Chester, scary stuff I can tell you... God knows what I'd have done if it was a Fox!! 🙁
All that on foxes seems very sensible.
the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts, Hawk and Owl Trust and National Trust said Packham’s criticisms were baseless.
i have to make do with the foxes eating babies nappies out the bins
Whereas it's the magpies that rip open my bin bags looking for stuff. Maybe we should wipe them out as well as the gulls for daring to pick up waste food? Of course we'd have less problems with scavengers if people would actually look after their own locale and not treat it like a rubbish dump.
Of course we'd have less problems with scavengers if people would actually look after their own locale and not treat it like a rubbish dump
this 100% ^
Whereas it's the magpies that rip open my bin bags looking for stuff. Maybe we should wipe them out as well as the gulls for daring to pick up waste food? Of course we'd have less problems with scavengers if people would actually look after their own locale and not treat it like a rubbish dump.
It was pet cats around here, until we got wheelie bins. I'd be perfectly happy for those to exterminated, though.
Certainly think when it comes to the NT Packham has a point to an extent. Certainly it's a point worth raising about some WWT's too.
So he raised an issue for discussion in a magazine where such issues should be discussed (as a member of the NT, WWT and Wildfowl & Wetlands Trusts it's not an area they are particulalry vocal about).
However as MR Smith purports to have come from the strata of countryside society that is being criticized; no surprise there....
The RSPB and the National Trust are scared to criticise any of the rich land owners or supporters or the government.
So they continue to support grouse shooting, even though it is linked to illegal persecution of a variety of other animals. While hen harriers and pine martens are now almost extinct in much of England.
"I got attacked by a squirrel at the weekend in Chester, scary stuff I can tell you"
Was she called Tracey?
So they continue to support grouse shooting, even though it is linked to illegal persecution of a variety of other animals. While hen harriers and pine martens are now almost extinct in much of England.
probably because better the devil you know. those environments where hen harriers/grouse can thrive are managed and not natural, without the grouse £££’s who else is going to pay for it’s management?
in an ideal world the state would create a bucolic rural idyll where local people and wildlife co-exist in harmony and all fauna and flora thrive, reality is somewhat different.
the answer is to educate and prosecute any illegal trapping/poisoning while encouraging those who are best placed to manage the land while encouraging a local economy and wildlife. it is possible.
those environments where hen harriers/grouse can thrive are managed and not natural,
Yep there's no 'natural' landscape in most of Britain all of it has been affected or created by man at some point.
There is a balance between the people who manage the land and the people who pay (through their taxes) for many of the [url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich ]subsidies[/url].
Now I get that many small & tenant farmers struggle financially but much of the grouse hunting landscape is owned by very, very rich people.
he answer is to educate and prosecute any illegal trapping/poisoning while encouraging those who are best placed to manage the land while encouraging a local economy and wildlife. it is possible.
I think you will find that this was the broad thrust of Chris Packhams' comments- he just may have a slightly different emphasis on the 'encouragement' and how the land is best managed. Hence the antagonism from the CA
i dont think you need a BA in the subject to post on here?
being a natural born pedant, I think he has a BSc rather than a BA in zoology
Not sure who I dislike more him or the CA. Both represent entrenched narrow minded focus on a single interest at the expense of anyone else.
I have no respect for him after his misrepresentations of proposals for a closed circuit cycling track near the velodrome at Pride Park in Derby. As far as I could see, beyond the short term disruption, the proposal would have little impact on nesting birds etc on the land. The way he represented it was that the proposal would despoil a pristine natural environment (The land was given over as a nature reserve after the development of Pride Park because the soil buried just below the surface is seriously contaminated and couldn't be built on without decontamination). As a member of Derbyshire Wildlife Trust and BC I couldn't see why both couldn't coexist.
Having been to Chatsworth this weekend and heard some prat in pink trying to explain that fox hunting was basically a working class pursuit (I am sure he didn't say pursuit of the working class) my view on the CA is pretty similar.