[Closed] Weight training - to get toned and stronger but not bigger...

Eat in the evening and you'll get bigger. Eat in the morning and you'll get toned.

Simple as that.

Damn you for having a definitive answer so quickly! 🙂

is it not just as said diet with low weight and lots of reps?

i dont know mind never been to the gym.

Swimming.

Damn you for having a definitive answer so quickly!

low weights, high reps

Chase turkeys.

Smaller weights moved faster.

Imo. this needs some planmning.

to get stronger you will need to do high weights low reps (this will also get you bigger)

to maintain that strength you need to keep the weight the same and increase the reps - the muscle will 'become efficient' and get smaller.

dont know what you do already but i would suggest plyometrics and body weight sessions.

damn you for stealing my thread idea yeti, although its nice to have the same training conundrum to discuss!

i'm quite liking the sound of thomthumb's suggestion though.

Never get tired of recommending the "Body Pump" classes my local gym runs: lowish weight, high reps, fit women (and men, whatever...)

Basically a series of routines, each one lasts a song: legs (squats), chest, shoulders, more legs (dips), triceps, biceps...

Well you hadn't started it!!
I too like the idea of getting smaller with a maintainence program.
Although I have got a spell of getting my right leg back up to normal size to go through.

My current (weights) training is centred around bodyweight exercises, kettlebells, yoga, free weights plus and try to do a different session everytime I enter the gym.

I'm also aiming to do sets of 20 chin-ups but this is an aside.

Yep, I used to do Pump classes a lot mogrim. Can't do squats at the moment so they're out of the question.

I'm also aiming to do sets of 20 chin-ups but this is an aside.

5th - that's going to be pretty tough going!

We have a machine that you can load plates on (it's split you can't compensate for a weaker arm) that I've been loading with 20 kg over my bodyweight... sets of 20 though!! 😯

sit ups , leg raises , press ups & stretching.
Light weights, greater reps if you want to use machines.

Or get a girdle 😀

5th - that's going to be pretty tough going!

We have a machine that you can load plates on (it's split you can't compensate for a weaker arm) that I've been loading with 20 kg over my bodyweight... sets of 20 though!!

Roughly, what is meant by high reps? 50? 100? A million?

How much is low weight? Is it worked out as a percentage of your upper limit?

sounds like you already doing a lot of the things i would recommend. so the thing to change is the tempo. HIT training sounds like the way to go . its where you do high intensity exersises for a short period. for example burpees , box jumps, shuttle sprints maybe some boxing, slip some of these into your current program, between exersises and vary them to keep your body guessing.

Cheers Birdo... I noramlly fit in a circuit training session as well.
The guy that runs them does a different set of exercises each week.

To develop strength without particularly bulking up I'd recommend body weight exercises, alongside a sensible healthy diet.

Personally, I just keep it simple and informal.

Alongside the cycling/MTBing I do sets of press-ups, pull-ups, chin-ups, sit-ups, sometimes bicep curls and tricep dips (although the press-ups & chin-ups work the arms to a decent extent for my purposes).

This seems to give me good muscle tone and an extra bit of strength in my arms/shoulders/back.

I generally aim for sets of 15-20 reps.

Circuit training.

have you got any Olympic rings at your gym . they are always a good shock to the system and build incredible pound for pound strength.just look at gymnasts

what is meant by high reps?

for me, maybe 10-15 x2 or x3.

How much is low weight? Is it worked out as a percentage of your upper limit?

for me a light weight is one that feels easy for the first 10 repsx2.
like spinning it out on a bike , if you know what i mean.

birdo - we have! Not used them yet really... not sure what to do if I'm honest.

add heavy weight rings to your typing fingers - use bling if you wish as I think it will suit you. Get a 15 kg mouse and swap hands
HTH

I always thought (I'm no expert though)

Size - less weight, more reps, several sets, and ont he last one you should be pretty much vomiting, pushing so hard that the bar barely moves, then try and push it another mm at a time untill the pain gets too much, i.e. the more pain you experience in the last rep the more dmage is done and the bigger the muscle grows back.

Stength - big weight, few reps, never do anything to failiure, the idea being you're doing it as part of a training program, no point being able to squat with 200kg if you can't ride the bike the next day. The downside of this method and the reason most gym goers go for option 1 is it tends to result in injury if you're not already doing lots of exercise to have all the strong connective tissue/strong bones etc in place?

(I'm no expert though)

You've just ruined one of my favourite delusions... I thought you were an expert on everything?

well to start with if they are low enough to the floor (abot 2 ft ish ) try doing standard press ups with your feet on the floor. if that is easy place your feet on a swiss ball. from the same press up position you can try extending your arms out to a T position and back in ( very hard ). then if you turn round lay on the floor you can do pull ups ( like a reverse press up) . also try triceps dips and from a similar position leg raises

Good ideas Birdo, ta!

light weight lots of reps toning

heavy weight feww reps bulk

Have you thought about going for some hypnotism sessions? Get the hypnotist to convince you that you are now Über-buff.
You can then forget all this training guff.
Not a problem for me because I am Über-buff, but I do worry about the rest of you.

Ian - can you give me the number for your hypnotist?

thisisnotaspoon - Member
I always thought (I'm no expert though)

Size - less weight, more reps, several sets, and ont he last one you should be pretty much vomiting, pushing so hard that the bar barely moves, then try and push it another mm at a time untill the pain gets too much, i.e. the more pain you experience in the last rep the more dmage is done and the bigger the muscle grows back.

Stength - big weight, few reps, never do anything to failiure, the idea being you're doing it as part of a training program, no point being able to squat with 200kg if you can't ride the bike the next day. The downside of this method and the reason most gym goers go for option 1 is it tends to result in injury if you're not already doing lots of exercise to have all the strong connective tissue/strong bones etc in place?

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

That's it, I would add low weight +very high reps tends to tone muscle, and a middle weight with medium reps adds bulk. For strength "big weight" is not the weight you can get up just about if your technique goes to hell.

Find your 1 rep max (weight you can just do one rep of with PERFECT form) and do close to it. I like to vary the reps and weight per set so instead of doing 6,6,6 at weight X do 8,6,4 at X,X+1,X+2.

Obviously if you want to get strong then unless it's for showing off at the weight rack then you'll want to be "usefully" strong. Compound exercises like deadlifts, cleans, squats etc are what you want to be looking at doing. You want to be very controlled and super slow on the down stroke, as it were, and explode on the up stroke (P=F*V, not much use moving a large force (F) slowly (V) as your power (P) will still be low and power is wht you are looking for, for real life applications i.e becoming a faster cyclist/rower/etc.) Your back, your legs and your core (more on this later) are going to be the most useful areas to develop, biceps aren't. So i'd skip the small exercises only working one muscle at a time, your biceps will get a workout when you do chin-ups, bent over rows etc triceps when you do dips, bench press etc.

Obvious but, structure your workout so the exercises including more muscles (deadlifts, cleans, even chin ups) are at the beginning and more specific exercises focusing on one or two muscles (bicep curls, if you must) are at the end.

Spend a lot of time on your core (infact my opinion on weight training for cycling would be that unless you are a track sprinter get out of the gym, buy a swiss ball, work on your core and ride instead)the more stable your core and the more even the muscles are on either side of your body the better you will perform at basically every thing.

Iain

I use limited recovery time between sets (45 sec ) This works the cardiovascular system harder burning more calories which in turn builds endurance without bulk . Keep reps in the medium range 10-12 x 3 with as much weight as you can comfortably complete the first set.
Fairly basic but it works.

I thought the term 'toning' was a load of rollox?

You either build muscle or lose fat to show definition?

I thought the term 'toning' was a load of rollox?

You either build muscle or lose fat to show definition?

Eh? The average Ethiopian has lost most of his fat and has penty of definition, but little tone (i.e. muscle)..

trickydisco +1

You've just ruined one of my favourite delusions... I thought you were an expert on everything?

You've seen my beer belly, exercise advice from me is like fiscal policy from the Tory pary.

just doing normal weight training you're not going to bulk up like arnie, you would have to put so much work in, protien shakes morning noon and night. It aint easy to bulk up tis why lots resort to needles and pills.

Eh? The average Ethiopian has lost most of his fat and has penty of definition, but little tone (i.e. muscle)..

I was talking about 'toning' a muscle. People talk about specific exercises to 'tone' their muscles. Like I said, You either build muscle or have low body fat to show the definition

I use limited recovery time between sets (45 sec ) This works the cardiovascular system harder burning more calories which in turn builds endurance without bulk . Keep reps in the medium range 10-12 x 3 with as much weight as you can comfortably complete the first set.
Fairly basic but it works.

Made a huge difference to reducing arm fatigue on longer descents.

It aint easy to bulk up tis why...

I agree whole heartedly.

Tricky - it's not just about 'the show ' though, is it? I'm thinking about trying to maintain strength and drop a bit of size.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/goulet5.htm

http://exercise.about.com/od/exerciseworkouts/ss/strengthmyths_2.htm

This is another myth, what I call 'The Pink Dumbbell Myth' that is often perpetuated by magazines and infomercials, convincing us that we should use lighter weights (e.g., pink dumbbells) for higher reps to tone our bodies. There's also a belief that this approach somehow burns more fat and that women should lift weights this way to avoid getting big and bulky.

The truth is that this type of strength training doesn't burn more fat and the only way it will 'tone' your body is if you've created a calorie deficit that allows you to lose body fat. Using lighter weights for higher reps will help you increase muscular endurance and it does have a place in training routines, but that lean, defined look comes from losing body fat.

muscle 'tone' is created in the kitchen not the gym - same as a six-pack

So to lose muscle size, you have to sacrifice strength. Seems pretty obvious really.

So to maintain a size... presumably you can just go for higher and higher reps?

Go heavy on your compound exercises, eat less rubbish and sleep lots.

That is basically what it boils down to.

Sure someone will be along soon to disagree and put forward an excessively complex routine 😉

you don't have to sacrifice strength. strength has a neural element and you can train that to maintain strength with 'smaller' muscle size. think of olympic weight lifting where they're in body weight categories - they have to get 'stronger' without getting heavier.

Interesting iDave. I've found this...

http://www.training4cyclists.com/strength-training-without-additional-body-mass-3/

TSY, maybe we need to take inspiration from climbers? i rarely see a 'bulky muscle' climber - most have a lot of muscle but are v slim. Only one i've seen who is bulky also looks like a gym bunny too.

I've no idea what to do now, maybe understanding my body composition report will help me get my head round what i should look to do for improvements!

Read my link! That's what you should do!

Climbers generally don't need to be that strong though, apart from grip strength.

Ok, I'll read the link. I'd disagree with climbers not needing to be strong - having done some hard (for me so anything from 5+ - 6a) overhangs, there's more to it than just grip strength - my back/shoulders hurt the next day from overhangs.

That's probably because your technique is sloppy 😉

Oi cheeky 😛

Long recovery periods between sets
When you train for neural strength you are interested in a full or almost full recovery between each set. This little move, which is a very social and comfortable time of the training session, makes it possible to keep protein degradation at minimum. It also makes you able to perform lifts at higher level, which in the final end makes you stronger. I recommend you to take a break of at least 2 minutes between sets.

2mins?! So much for me moving between sets of mountain climbers, lunges and biceps with no rest in between then!

Yeah, I figured you could do another exercise in the 'rest' period as long as it's not hitting the same muscle groups.

I thought the term 'toning' was a load of rollox?

It is. No such thing as tone. It is marketing nonsense.

If you want toned muscles, start lifting pink dumbells, reading heat magazine and eating special k.

[i]muscle 'tone' is created in the kitchen not the gym - same as a six-pack
[/i]

One of the best one-liners I've ever read on STW.
😉

[i].just look at gymnasts[/i]

boy gymnasts you mean? see iDave's comments about getting a six pack in the kitchen. in my gym (gymnastics, not weights and stuff) we were all "encouraged" not to eat much, the boys needed to obviously to maintain strength but they were given protien shakes and all sorts of v low calories diets to get and keep down to "comp weight" There's a lot of judges that will still mark up boy gymnasts with good muscle def and mark down those who look a bit chubby but still do good sets. It's not just the girls who are under pressure.

the reason i said look at gymnasts is because pound for pound their strength is comparable to any athlete if not better, male or female, plus they combine endurance, explosive strength and flexibility. i just thought something along those lines as a training plan would be great for the OP

birdo - Member
the reason i said look at gymnasts is because pound for pound their strength is comparable to any athlete if not better, male or female

More than darts players? I don't think so/

Anyone use [url= http://www.fitocracy.com/home/ ]fitocracy[/url]?

Want to increase tone in your muscles? Have a stroke - that should do the trick.

[i]they combine endurance, explosive strength and flexibility[/i]

birdo, your making me sound cool. ta

Get yourself a job putting up dry stone walls, thats the best way to do it. I cant see the point in paying to go to a gym when you could be getting paid to be out on the fells.

davidtaylforth - Member

Get yourself a job putting up dry stone walls, thats the best way to do it. I cant afford to go to a gym because I'm getting paid sod all to be out on the fells in all weather.

Only joking David

As for weights, my goal is to not bulk up, but to get that 'ripped' look. I'm losing body fat fast by cutting out crap and as I've read on the internet and been told at the gym - use the max weight that you can to achieve 10-12 reps per set. Using a lower weight and more reps, builds up lactic acid, giving a temporary appearance of definition, but this goes. To achieve retained muscle, you have to push your muscles with as much resistance as possible.

learn to campus board and work on a woody, strong like an ox and power by the bucket without additional weight gain

Long way to go yet till the perfect bod, but gone from beer gut and moobs to this in 6 weeks of sensible eating and 4 trips to the gym over the last fortnight - not been biking for months...

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third nipple ^^

Boxing training seems to have done the trick for the lads at the local club, they do some intense looking stuff, I'm just scratching the surface being old and fat, but enjoying the sessions us older gentlemen do, always amazed at the methods of torture possible without having to resort to all the fancy kit that the local gym seems to use, always plenty of banter, some bugger always farts doing side plank, once the laughing starts it's game over,
PJ.

I struggle with long sentences
Yoga for toning and strength without bulk.
Sorts out flexibility and core strength which help power on the bike too IME
And is more enjoyable & relaxing than reps in the gym IMO

iDave - I am Scaramanger, claim your five pounds - it's actually a mole, but everyone I know takes the piss and calls it a 3rd nip.

All this lower weight and higher reps stuff is utter nonsense.

Muscle tone is just muscle with an absence of fat. Less fat + muscle = muscle tone/definition. To get rid of fat you need a calorific deficit - burn more energy than you consume. Your body will metabolise fat, which will show the muscle underneath.

Blommin' hell Taz, that's some inspiring stuff right there!

How about this for a workout... although he's probably a little big for a cyclist...

I think this was filmed in the woods behind Nationwide.....

iDave - there is a link on that to a guy jumping out of a swimming pool... pretty impressive.

Anyhow, who fancies meeting up in Swindon tonight for a spot of semi-naked wrestling?

A good 5x5 program did the trick for me although I did fairly low weights for the first three sets and then pushed to failure on the last two.

Concentrating on powerlifting exercises and keeping weight high and reps low, 5 max.

I did this for about 3 months and had big increases in strength, particularly core strength and went from 70kg to 66 kg. That was on quite a calorie restricted diet with an emphasis on carbs rather than protein.

Erm guys - Muscle tone is the residual tension in a muscle, or effectively the resistance to passive stretch of said muscle. Unless you have a medical condition that reduces this you really dont want to be increasing muscle tone - hence the stroke comment.

yes SbZ, but you know in 'this context' it refers to definition

Nah - definition refers to definition. I know what it's intended to mean, doesnt mean that it's not the incorrect term to use though.