[Closed] Weight loss - 5.2kg in one week!

If I ride a lot...

This thread is almost too funny. Molly you do a great job of sending yourself up... fair play to you.

What would promote more fat storage?
1500 cals of high GI sugar rich foods
or 2500cals of low GI idavesque type foods.

Excess calories would promote fat storage.

Low GI or complex carbs (polysaccarides-many sugars) or High GI or simple carbs (single sugars) are both still sugar.

Low GI simply reduces insulin spikes and subsequent dips in blood sugar which lead to cravings in some.

If your excess calories come from simple or complex sugars, once your liver/muscles have stored all the glycogen they can then, yes, they will be converted to lipids and stored.

Mol, I'm not going to comment on the food stuff, but i will say from a training point of view, that to get better/win, the thing you need most of all, is the one thing you don't have: time (as philly pointed out) I'm now about 9 weeks into my coaching, i'm 1 point away from becoming cat 3 in my first season of racing and i'm closing the time gap between me and the winner, now down to about 5 seconds or so in a sprint finish. The one thing i'm 'giving up' for this is my free time...during the week its basically work, train for 1-3hours almost every night, dinner, bed and repeat. The weekends are racing/recovering or training. But that's ok for me as my bf does this too, i have no other committments and i want to win badly enough to give up my time. You have a family and young kids and clearly can't devote the same amount of time to training as i can. I would guess that if you wanted to win, it would involve some sacrificing some of your family time or training at anti social hours. I know a bloke who won lots of RRs during the 1st year his kid was born, as he had a v understanding wife but i know thats not for everyone. I would also guess that if you had more time to train, you'd lose more weight. How old are your kids, can you wait until they are older to focus on your training?

jota, any loss of muscle leads to a slower metabolism, reducing your BMR. This is why yoyo dieters get fatter and fatter over time.

Bagstard... if our case study stuck to 1200 calories of proteins and good fats, given the abundance of fat they're carrying, would they lose fat or muscle?

Yeti, the body burns whichever fuel is easiest to access.

In order of preference this is carbs>lipids>proteins.

As long as the person does some high intensity exercise to mobilise lipids from their stores then fat will be the predominant source of fuel.

don simon - Member
Serious question.
What would promote more fat storage?
1500 cals of high GI sugar rich foods
or 2500cals of low GI idavesque type foods.

as I understand it, high GI foods promote fat storage if you are either inactive or already obese - if you were active and normal you wouldn't put down fat on 1500 cals (unless maybe you took the whole 1500 cals of sugar in 1 or 2 hits), your body would preferentially use available sugar from food rather than breakdown fat/protein stores.

The "insulin thing" often quoted here is pretty much BS - simple amino acids (from protein digestion) also stimulate insulin production, so a high protein/low sugar intake doesn't really help (with respect to insulin levels) that much except in those who are metabolically "special".

"Trick" is, don't eat high GI except when you're using energy/energy depleted, and don't snack, on anything, irrespective of it's GI.

I'm sure I read that a person can't lose more than a kg of fat a week so what have I lost?

Not true. On 2 month bike tours I have averaged 250g weight loss per day. Possibly even more in the early part of the tours. I only weighed myself before and after but I needed to tighten my waistbelt more in the first half of the tours.

But as that involves riding a bike for between 5 and 8 hours a day it isn't repeatable in everyday life.

I would guess it also depends on your weight. A kg is a smaller fraction of a 16 or 17 stone person than it is of a 10 stone person obviously.

On tour I lose weight while eating what I want and having a couple of beers most nights. I eat far less cheese and chocolate/biscuits than I do at home and burn huge amounts of calories.

Thanks Ben. I knew that answer... but it's good to have it made clear to others.

TSY, I can't answer that exactly, but anything more than a couple of pounds a week and you will be losing muscle. Even with the right high protein diet bodybuilders will lose muscle cutting up for competition.
It is unavoidable, but that is the game they play.

An average person on a diet will not replace the muscle they lost and continue on their yoyo diet life with a lower bmr, leading to eventual weight gain. Hence why the scales only tell one side of the story, but people are obsessed with them.

I'm going to try and put a lid on all of this.

Calorie restriction will cause you to lose weight, though it may be short lived as it stimulates the release of Neuropeptide Y- this is effectively the hormone released during starvation which causes an increase in appetite and encourages reduced physical activity to save calories.

Diets where proportions of proteins/fats are higher release peptide YY from the gut, this is a hormone that increases the bodies sensitivity to Leptin and makes you feel fuller for longer.

The idave diet helps your body regulate appetite and in turn causes you to naturally consume less calories.

This hormone regulated reduction in intake stimulates the use of fat as a fuel source leading to the subsequent weight loss

I'm going to try and put a lid on all of this.

I'm going to try and put a lid on all of this.

#[u]Report post[/u]

Not on my watch you don't. Coming along with your informative knowledge backed advice... Ban Him!

The "insulin thing" often quoted here is pretty much BS - simple amino acids (from protein digestion) also stimulate insulin production, so a high protein/low sugar intake doesn't really help (with respect to insulin levels) that much except in those who are metabolically "special".

Meat does stimulate insulin production, despite having low/no carbs, but not nearly as much as starchy or high GI foods. Have you read the insulin index paper that's been linked to on here several times? It lists experimentally derived insulin indices of different foods.

The idave diet helps your body regulate appetite and in turn causes you to naturally consume less calories.

Not for me*. If I only eat the veg/beans/meat I get massively hungry, and end up eating huge portions and getting too many calories to lose weight. And I still stay hungry.

Doesn't your stomach lining detect carbs and regulate appetite that way? I've found that after a big meal of beans I can have maybe one biscuit or a tea with one sugar, and I feel full immediately, so maybe that's got something to do with it.

* I don't wish to make excuses or claim to be special - that's just what I've experienced. No idea why, and it's frustrating.

Mol - I like to have some chocolate after I've eaten a meal too... I never feel satiated until I've had some Green & Blacks or some biscuits. Strong black coffee does also work.

Having worked out what doesn't work for you... what does?

Having worked out what doesn't work for you... what does?

Still working on that. But I think lots of carefully planned training makes more difference than anything else.

Hmmm... I think that training first thing in the morning before you've eaten might help you.

I also think that denying the after dinner snack won't kill us. Yeah I want a biscuit right now, I don't need one though. It won't impact on my exercise this evening not to have it.

I really do think you're over complicating this
Just get on and do more exercise and don't pig out or snack

I like to get out pre-breakfast for an hour or so, that way I don't lose the motivation as the day goes on.

EDIT - We seem to have the same idea TSY 🙂

jota - I generally wake up hungry.. drink some strong black coffee then get on with it. Anything from 3k swimming, 50k on the bike, 10k runs to gym based sprint triathlons. The only thing I never do pre breakfast is weights.

You can then have a massive breakfast of whatever you like that will be compliant with whichever 'diet' plan you subscribe too.

I think that training first thing in the morning before you've eaten might help you.

LOL!

I also think that denying the after dinner snack won't kill us.

I really don't have after dinner snacks except when the post meal hunger is too great.

The big issue for me is fuel for training. I think I am going to go back to supplements for post-ride, see how that goes.

Just get on and do more exercise and don't pig out or snack

As if I hadn't tried that!

Why do you laugh at the idea of pre-breakfast training?

jota - I generally wake up hungry.. drink some strong black coffee then get on with it

If I'm going out on the bike, I just get up and go anywhere between 20 and 40 miles
If I'm running, I have a coffee as I need my bowels to move whilst I'm at home rather than 3 miles out 🙂

+1 on whats wrong with exercising before brekky?

i used to think it was a stooopid idea, but then i tried it and once i got past the first few days of 'ugh i feel tired and dont have enough energy for this!' stage it became a lot easier.

always wake up starving hungry, coffee calms that down a bit but the protein shake i drink after the gym or spinning goes down very well on the rest of the journey to work 🙂

Doesn't your stomach lining detect carbs and regulate appetite that way?

It does but it doesn't release PYY in the same amounts as when proteins and fats are consumed which is why you can still feel hungry despite filling yourself with high carb foods.

The exponents of paleo diet will themselves admit they are still finding there feet and what works for most will not work for all.

Several people, especially Robb Wolf, now talk about carb refeeding (meals containing tubers every so often during training blocks), especially in athletes whose demand for quick energy is very different from your average Joe.

Why do you laugh at the idea of pre-breakfast training?

It's all I can do to get to work before 10 as it is. Not a morning person.

what works for most will not work for all

Nice to have my experience acknowledged!

It may be something to do with naturally being very much a sprint athlete

Not a morning person.

Well get over yourself and get out, what have you done so far today?

serious question, how do you know if you're naturally a sprint athlete?

i feel i may be a natural sprint athlete too 🙂

It may be something to do with naturally being very much a sprint athlete

PMSL!!

I hate to say it but you have so many excuses that naturally you're destined to be a slightly overweight IT worker.

I would do everything I could to advise and support you but you seem like a lost cause.

one thing i've noticed about chubbsters and thinnys, is that their partners tend to be of similar proportions... i think its easier to stay thin if your partner makes an effort to stay thin, and its a lot easier to slip into unhealthy eating habits when your partner offers you puddingz as i well know

I hate to say it but you have so many excuses that naturally you're destined to be a slightly overweight IT worker.

FFS. IT IS AN OBSERVATION NOT AN EXCUSE!

Do you dispute the fact that people's physiology differs?

OI, ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT HOW WE KNOW IF WE'RE NATURAL SPRINT ATHLETES!!!!

i think i'm one too and i want to know how its defined or what the symptoms/general behaviours are DAMMIT!

No Molly I'm laughing at your claim that you're naturally a sprint athlete!

Naturally my body composition, height and weight statistics would make me a black premier league football player.

When you're up in Preston away from the family... how many hours of training are you doing a day?

HOW WE KNOW IF WE'RE NATURAL SPRINT ATHLETES!!!!

You get to the end of the street and congratulate yourself on a good workout, then head home for cake

I think I'm somewhere between sprint and endurance.

No Molly I'm laughing at your claim that you're naturally a sprint athlete!

Sprint athletes are better at sprinting, due to more type II muscle fibres than type I. Aka fast and slow twitch.

Skeletal muscle can thus be broken down into two broad categories: Type I and Type II. Type I fibers appear red due to the presence of the oxygen binding protein myoglobin. These fibers are suited for endurance and are slow to fatigue because they use oxidative metabolism to generate ATP. Type II fibers are white due to the absence of myoglobin and a reliance on glycolytic enzymes. These fibers are efficient for short bursts of speed and power and use both oxidative metabolism and anaerobic metabolism depending on the particular sub-type. These fibers are quicker to fatigue

Surely you know this?

When you're up in Preston away from the family... how many hours of training are you doing a day?

Most nights, and some days when cycling to and from the station.

You are NOT A ****ing ATHLETE!! FCOL man!!

How many HOURS are you doing??? Not how often! Jesus Christ it's like pulling teeth.

Molgrips- if you're interested in the science behind different ways of eating and listen to podcasts there are two on iTunes worth looking at, Abel James-the fat burning man and Robb Wolf-Paleo Solution.

Both are very science based, have interesting academic interviews and tend to focus on performance rather than weight loss.

Personally, I think diet should be about improving health and rather than being prescriptive the best rules to follow are

1. If it wasn't here 10000 years ago don't eat it
2. If it doesn't come from the earth or breath oxygen don't eat it
3. If it's advertised on TV don't eat it

Molgrips- if you're interested in the science behind different ways of eating and listen to podcasts there are two on iTunes worth looking at, Abel James-the fat burning man and Robb Wolf-Paleo Solution.

** He needs to get his arse out rather than spending hours looking for reasons why not to 😉

**with respect Ben

If it wasn't here 10000 years ago don't eat it

Good luck with that. Food has changed so much nothing we eat was around 10000 years ago in the form it is today.

Woolly Mammoth steaks FTW 😉

OI, ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT HOW WE KNOW IF WE'RE NATURAL SPRINT ATHLETES!!!!

Yeti are you objecting to my use of the word "athlete"? I was simply using it to mean someone who does sport.

LOL at the Sprint athlete!

How on earth can you dream of winning a race when you can't even get up in the morning? Presumably, as well as being a Sprint athlete and having a special response to carbs, you are also some kind of special body clock owner too?

You complain when people say eat less and move more, but you need to do exactly that. 🙂

Yeah, just a bit. I'm also objecting to the notion that being a natural sprint athlete is a reason for being fat!

How many hours of training are you doing a week?

You are wildly misinterpreting what I am saying. I am saying that being towards one extreme of the physiology spectrum means that one's body would behave differently to those placed more towards the middle. So it is not at all unreasonable to suggest that generic diet or training guidelines might be less appropriate than something more specific.

I might be doing 4 hours a week, I dunno. I am missing my weekly longer ride though. Why do you ask? Do you think hours spent exercising is an indicator of something?

I don't have a special body clock, I just have one that starts later. It is very common. It's why I do most of my training at 10pm. When doing more miles I used to get in from three hour rides at 1am. Does that make me lazy?

So it is not at all unreasonable to suggest that generic diet or training guidelines might be less appropriate than something more specific.

It's not but a generic one will still work and produce good results so whilst searching for the Holy Grail, just get out and ride your bike more or run, or do both

Molgrips, you're not special.

You don't have a special response to carbs, you eat too many biscuits and laze about in bed until 10 and don't do enough exercise to reach your goals.

All your dreams are achievable, but you need to have a word with yourself.

A generic one will work, will it? Wil it do what I need? Something like idiet perhaps? Do you thing I am spending time on Google INSTEAD of training thinking that will blocking will make ne faster than training?

You people have very odd ideas.

I might be doing 4 hours a week,

I don't think that's enough, I do about 20 for no other reason than to stay fit and healthy, 4 hours wouldn't do that I don't think

EDIT: I was a bit over-estimating the hours, that last 2 weeks I've done 16.5 and 16

A generic one will work, will it? Wil it do what I need?

Pretty much, yes

I'm not claiming to be special of course, but even if I were how would you know? You been doing muscle biopsies on me whilst I sleep?

Different muscle types utilise fatand and carbs differently, so I am told.

Molgrips, I spend 4 hours a week on the toilet!

When I was fell running, I was doing an hour a day running to work and back, then training 2 or 3 nights a week and racing at weekends, with a young family.

When I was road racing, I did 8 to 12 hours on my bike a week plus races.

I know you insist that everyone is different and that you need something special just for you, but cake + sloth = heavier than you could be.

So let's get this straight.

1) you think one diet works just fine for everyone
2) you don't believe in the efficacy of HIIT

That right?

You also don't read the diet threads I presume.

Crikey, do you think I think I do enough training?

I drafted out a longer post but my internet lost it...

Others are already saying what I typed.

It is recommended that we all do 30 mins of exercise a day on average... you're averaging 4-5 mins more than this.

Are you at such an extreme on the physiology spectrum that this will be enough to achieve your stated dreams?

You certainly don't need to start taking supplements for this level of activity when you have an ample store of energy around your midrift.

Have you considered that you struggle with the exersion levels because your simply not as fit as you think you are?

So let's get this straight.

1) you think one diet works just fine for everyone
2) you don't believe in the efficacy of HOOT

That right?

1) enough to give good results, yes
2) no idea what that is, I once did some work in Hooters in Vegas though

EDIT: Arr....... you changed HOOT for HIIT

I remember a conversation that a friend had with his Mum when we were kids.

"I'm not going to die" he said.

"Stop being stupid"

"Well I haven't died yet so I may just be unique"

Molgrips, I really don't want to be unpleasant or unkind to you, but reading through this thread seems to indicate that you feel somehow that you are different.

I think one diet is all most people in the world have. I think that suggesting that you respond differently while also admitting your desire and weakness for high GI food is a bit odd.

HIIT has it's place, but that place is not to convince people that they can get away with doing 4 hours a week while dreaming of winning races. 4 hours a week is not enough.

I'm more than 10 years older than you and do 2-3-4 hours a day when I get the chance, I use water, and don't eat for another 2 hours when I get in.

You are messing about molgrips, and time is ticking.

Commit to getting fit, commit to training to race, commit to eating a lot less than you do.

I like biscuits, sweets, crisps and chocolate.
I eat them regularly.
I'm heavier than I could be.
I'm happier than I should be. (according to most of the opinion on here)

Thats probably it now you've said it - 4 hours per week. Its not really alot thinking about it. Probably what an average joe in my office might do (e.g. footie a couple of nights per week and a couple of hour long jogging sessions)

I dont have any racing goals (or kids) or anything like that, last week I probably did about 12 hours on the bike without thinking much about it. Thats probably an average week. Granted it wasnt all highly intense but I was still riding my bike.

2) you don't believe in the efficacy of HIIT

Personally I think it's the emperors new clothes, just as MAF training is at the other end of the scale.

People will oft cite the research done that demonstrates how great it is. The conclusion drawn is that by reducing your training volume and increasing your intensity you can increase your speed.
But this isn't news.
Pretty much every traditional training method has worked on the principle of building up an aerobic base, then 8 weeks before the race season reducing the volume and increasing the intensity.
So the revelation that HIIT over an 8 week period increase speed isn't really a revelation.
What would be a revelation would be HITT over a 52 week period produces greater fitness than old school steady base + speed work.
But that doesn't appear to happen.
So sure if you've only got 1 hour to exercise a week it makes sense doing it at a higher intensity, than an low one, but again it's not really news.
HIIT tries to sell the dream that you can get fit without putting in the hours.
MAF tries to sell the dream that you can get fit without putting in the effort.
Beware of people selling dreams 🙂

What you lot think I am saying:

Waaah diets don't work on me I'm special boo hoo I train and everything it's just not fair

What I'm actually trying to say:

There is a range of physiology types, and what works really well for some doesn't work as well for others.

1) Four hours a week isn't my plan, it's what I actually manage to do. You're imagining that I am claiming it's all I need to do. I need to do considerably more, this is obvious.

2) You assume I can't stop eating cake and I somehow think this is okay. I've said I LIKE cake.

3) I've said if I don't supplement the iDiet with more simple carbs than it suggests, my training performance really suffers. I don't know why you would disagree with this. I'm not the only person on STW who has reported the same symptoms, and at least two people have said it flat out doesn't work for them at all.

4) I do have a sprinter's physiology, I'm better than the majority of people at sprinting. This makes me a minority amongst cyclists and recreational runners.

5) I suggest you read iDave's blog about his half iron man on 6-9 hours training a week.

Commit to getting fit, commit to training to race, commit to eating a lot less than you do.

6) If I don't eat enough, I can't train as hard. FACT.

If I don't eat enough, I can't train as hard. FACT.

I agree. But just train as hard as you can manage.

1. OK
2. We all LIKE cake
3. well do away with the magic beans and eat normal food
4. If you say so
5. Why would someone else's training plan interest me? I'm not training for anything anyway

You seem to be constantly looking for a quick fix - to all intents and purposes, there are none

Eeeeeh, lad...

I give up.

I don't think you know how hard it is to win races.

Molgrips - according to previous threads on here you eat a around kilo a week of highly refined sugar ( OK to be pedantic maltodextrin is not a sugar but acts as glucose) this is having untold effects on your glucose / insulin system and will be damaging your body.

this is why you crave sugar.

molgrips - Member

I'm not claiming to be special of course, but even if I were how would you know? You been doing muscle biopsies on me whilst I sleep?

Different muscle types utilise fatand and carbs differently, so I am told.

Really? new one on me.

...and I reckon that unless you're there at the end of a race, your sprinting ability is as yet unproven.

But just train as hard as you can manage.

You think this is as effective? If I set out to do maximal sprints and can't, am I wasting my time? After two weeks on the iDiet I couldn't sustain more than 15mph on the flat on my road bike, so I had to eat more carbs. After 3 months I still couldn't ride properly fast, so I started eating more chocolate, I got fast and lost another 2kg.

3. well do away with the magic beans and eat normal food

What do you think I was doing for the previous 34 years of my life? Do you think I started on a diet for the hell of it? Did you read me arguing with idave page after page when it first was posted on here?

5. Why would someone else's training plan interest me?

You bloody well tell me, you're joining in the argument. The point is that 6-9 hours can be enough to get much quicker. I don't have 20 hours, so that's the only approach open to me.

You seem to be constantly looking for a quick fix

I want the most effective way for me to lose weight and get fast. Not such a ridiculous thing to be looking for, is it? Or should I be doing the same shite, following the same plan I was for years and seeing no results?

and I reckon that unless you're there at the end of a race, your sprinting ability is as yet unproven.

I've not claimed to be good at it.

EDIT not claimed to be good at cycling sprinting. I'm quite quick on foot though.

1) Good... so do it.
2) Good... don't do it.
3) Do some training not just the occasional bit of exercise.
4) LOL.
5) I have. I've also spoken to him about it. He's dedicated and has a will to succeed that you appear to lack.
6) An excuse to stay overweight. Or, have you thought about following a calorie restricted diet for your basal needs and then fuell specifically for your training sessions. Reduce all calc's by 10% just to be safe though.

If you're a natural sprinter, you could probably get good at sprinting with minimal training. Otherwise, you probably can't.

I'm naturally okay at riding bikes a long way, pretty slowly. So, I can do that without training for it. If I wanted to win a Sports cat XC race, I'd have to train like mad, and would probably still lose.

6) An excuse to stay overweight. Or, have you thought about following a calorie restricted diet for your basal needs and then fuell specifically for your training sessions. Reduce all calc's by 10% just to be safe though.

Yes, thought about it, tried it, worked to a point. Weight levelled out, more food was required.

Wtf do you mean 'excuses' anyway? What's the difference between cause and effect, and an excuse?

He's dedicated and has a will to succeed that you appear to lack.

My lack of dedication is not in question. Again, you seem not to understand my point here.

Do you think I'm saying it's not my fault I'm fat and slow, or something?

Molly - I've said it before and I'll say it again... you gotta be trolling us!!!

You're too bright to be trotting out the shite that you have on this thread...

EDIT not claimed to be good at cycling sprinting. I'm quite quick on foot though.

Is that with heel or forefoot striking??

Am I right in thinking, Molly, that you are trying to train for endurance events?

Do you think I'm saying it's not my fault I'm fat and slow, or something?

No, I think most people are saying that you are in denial about the best way to change it
If you don't want to change it, that's fine too

Mol - I don't really think you have a point.

I hope anyone reading this thread and thinking about their own training plans doesn't get sucked in and stuck in your rut.

How long do you stick at new training and diet ideas before you decide you're right?

How exactly have you progressed since you posted those pictures of yourself 15 months ago?

How lean have you got? How fast have you got?

Why not enter a running race if that's what you're good at instead of trying to fight your body?

No, I think most people are saying that you are in denial about the best way to change it

I can't imagine why you think you know all about how I respond to different exercises and foods.....

Am I right in thinking, Molly, that you are trying to train for endurance events

Ideally, XC MTB. Does that constitute an endurance event? I'd like to get into track racing though.

You're too bright to be trotting out the shite that you have on this thread...

?

Which bit's wrong? You think everyone's the same, and everyone's body responds to training and nutrition the same?

Does that constitute an endurance event?

Along with reading through endless diet threads, xc racing is definitely one of the tougher tests of endurance

Ideally, XC MTB. Does that constitute an endurance event? I'd like to get into track racing though.

Which bit's wrong? You think everyone's the same, and everyone's body responds to training and nutrition the same?

I asked at Newport track what kind of races or leagues etc they held there. No-one knew....

I do need to investigate more, I do want to do it.