[Closed] We think we know people, but then they have secrets....

Very few on here, we have jive what's his name to warn us and he does this at great length.

Kid I went to school with from right through until I was 18, even doing the same A levels in a small class (of 5) decided to take the honourable route & became a teacher.

A few years ago, we were looking at a 15yr reunion, and it turned out he was in prison for banging a couple of the pupils inside & outside of school.

He wasn't a weirdo when I knew him...

Blimey, that's shocking.

I received some news yesterday that directly affects me. Was surprised, angry and plenty of other emotions. Never expected it of the person concerned.

Am old enough that I shouldn't be surprised by anything any more.

Yes i knew a straightup nice guy who disappeared one day: now in prison for child pornography but police moved in when he arranged to meet up with a child he groomed online who was really a police/ceops officer.

Also knew someone who it turns out had disappeared from his old job as care worker for young adults with learning difficulties after he got one of the residents pregnant. He seemed the nicest guy ever, I and friends who knew him would never have guessed until by chance seone from his 'old life' hundreds of miles away bumped into him and blew the whistle on him still doing similar work.

Psychopathology of paedophiles is most interesting if worrying stuff. I can well see how people would never guess in many cases.

Not me personally but a fella I know went to court the other day to watch one of his (now former) best mates get sentenced for a similar crime. Apparently he had been filming his 12 year old step daughter in the bath!

The lad I know was sickened that he'd got so close to someone so evil but he said he'd never have thought it.

OP, we read about it all the time - but I think it's pretty well known that paedophiles are better than most at hiding their true nature - and though you feel shocked about it, they pull the wool over the eyes of the sharpest of us.

You cannot always read people for this reason, there are many people have something hidden which you will never know about unless it is exposed. While some people that come across as being a bit of a weirdo and labelled as odd in some way are the most normal and trust worthy around but they are often socially excluded.

How can people hide like that?

I do read people well. But I missed this.

I guess that's what I don't get. When presented with proper evil, I missed it. And it worries me. We had talked about all sorts over the years. Even quitting the rat race and setting up doing something different. He was a good mate.

Never in a million years could I have seen, or guessed, that he'd be doing this sort of nonsense (words aren't ideal as the swear filter will find what I feel).

It makes me question everything. How many other friends are weirdos, peados, murderers? ****s me off I can't tell (and do something about).

When I was a kid I did the whole confirmation thing.
Our local Vicar that we knew for years led the lessons. Everyone thought he was lovely, generous and genuine. I thought he was quiet cool at the lessons and often arrived early so it was just him and me chatting.

Few months into confirmation he just disappeared from the parish. No warning, no explanation. Turns out he was a pedophile and had also been abusing children. Everyone was shocked. No one could ever see it.

If it really was as easy as "reading people" you would be employed by the police and we would live in a crime free world, where the only locks required where on cell doors. Unfortunately we live in a world of deception and crime.

How can people hide like that?

not only are they perverts but also experts in manipulation and the art of lying to conceal the truth

 

Im a firm believer in theres no such thing as a "normal" person.

they are very skilled at just not mentioning anything about that part of their life

I worked in care for over a decade
Statistically I must have worked with abusers as they chose this profession
I have not the faintest idea who they were as there is no sign to "read".

I guess this means I have been deceived but,unlike you , I dont know who by.

I'm sure most people pride themselves on being able to spot people who are deviant or evil. But I guess the truth is if we were all so good at spotting these people they'd never get away with anything. I suspect people who harbor urges like this are much better at disguising it than good people are at detecting it.

I mentioned recently in another thread how a swimming instructor at my school turned out to be a child molester. That didn't surprise me.

EDIT: I should mention to the op, don't beat yourself up about it. My uncle is a very senior Garda (Irish police) and he rarely discusses cases, but when he's had a few drinks he lets the odd bit of information slide. He's told me on a few occaisions how some people can be masters of hiding things like this often their whole lives are a lie constructed around their sexual appetite.

I thought I knew my Dad, but a few years after he died my Mum told me that he had a child by an earlier marriage - in the 38 years I knew him he gave absolutely no clue to me that he had either been married before or had another child. She apparently lived in the same city where I grew up, and apparently all my relatives seemed to know about this apart from me, and according to my cousin he still had contact with her.

No. Unfortunately I've come in contact not with the people themselves but with the people who work with them on a reasonably regular basis over the last 20 years and I can tell you that none of them saw anything untoward.

The last chap, I spoke to two of his co-workers during the investigation, they both felt they were good friends with him, took their families round to his house, considered him a quality guy, utterly trustworthy, nothing at all over the years to suggest he was anything other than a great guy. He was convicted and prisoned for a fairly long time not so long ago for various offenses.

These people are good at hiding the truth, it's how they get away with things for so long.

I went to school with a couple of brothers, Jimmy was two years above me and Ritchie was the year above. Ritchie was nuts, didn't know Jimmy too well at school but after we left we all ended up as part of a large loose knit group of friends or friends of friends who'd always end up in the same clubs, drink at the same pubs and end up at the same parties at the weekends after clubbing. Jimmy was a great lad, a good laugh, always enjoyed meeting up with him wherever we'd end up. There were rumours their dad had abused them as kids but I never took much notice although looking back at Ritchie you could kind of imagine it.

They drove black cabs at an unusually young age as their dad had a few of them and Jimmy would always tell us stories about girls he's had in the cab and stories of things hed get up to at nights when he was working with this girl or that.

I buggered off to Ibiza for most of the next decade and hooked up with my missus so lost touch with nearly all those old friends.

Then a few years ago a story appeared in the local paper. Must have been over 15 years since I last saw him.

I was gutted. I always liked Jimmy, but maybe there was more to all those old encounters he used to tell us about....

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/evil-past-taxi-rapist-james-3454755

Selfishly they don't wear tshirts that say "I'm a Paedo" or "Hey.....fancy a bit of rohipnol"

If you are doing stuff like this you will be good at hiding it. They know it's wrong so they will create a lie around what they are doing so it's no surprise that people don't notice. Also people think other people act like they do....so if you wouldn't do it you expect other people won't either.

When interviewed friends of psycho's, paedos, etc never say "what a freakin' weirdo...always knew he was a wrong 'un"

Don't wish to trivialise this, but none of my friends know that I like a small effigy of Sir William Tell shoved up my bottom just prior to sex.

Or maybe it really gets me going when I see a one-legged woman eating an apple.

Am I joking? Yes.

But see how easy it is to not tell anyone anything even mildly embarrasing or socially unacceptable? I'm not a master of disguise or the very embodiment of evil.

You cannot always read people for this reason, there are many people have something hidden which you will never know about unless it is exposed.

This was somebody I used to work with.

[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6255234.stm [/url]

He didn't turn up to work for a while then somebody found the newspaper article and put it up on the noticeboard! Knew he was a bit odd and couldn't stand him personally but never would have guessed what he was upto in his spare time 😯

Used to hang around with a couple of lads when I was around 15 - Ben & Steve. Someone broke into student digs at the local uni, wearing a balaclava and raped a girl at knife point. I think there were 3 rapes all together. Local papers were full of it. Ben got arrested one Friday night for a pub fight. During the questioning he obviously said something, because he ended up being charged with the rapes. We were all pretty sickened obviously, but during the trial there was talk of an accomplice. Various people got questioned but nothing ever came of it.

Lost touch with most of the lads over the years, but last year an old mate messaged me and asked if I remembered Steve. Then he sent me[url= http://www.murdermap.co.uk/pages/cases/case.asp?CID=364466782&Case=Upper-Norwood-murder:-Siobhan-Kelly ]this[/url]. Pretty much answered the original question in my mind.

But to be honest, it was never much of a secret that those 2 were nuts.

[url= http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/pervert-pensioner-back-behind-bars-after-trial-1.472592 ]Met this guy once, took an instant dislike to him![/url]
A biking buddie/workmate had been telling us about this amazing/interesting guy he had met. On a ride he popped out of a forest road and we stopped, chatted etc. during our conversation he changed the subject every time he realised I was questioning him on what he was talking about(my local area v him being a newcomer)
Few weeks later my suspicions were proven!!
MrsT was a Scottish children's panel volunteer for a number of years and can vouch for some of the comments above re how " nice " some of these people come across, it's not only kids who are groomed 🙄

Everyone seems normal till you get to know them!

It's pretty horrendous and sickening to right minded folk but what clues are you supposed to be looking for in identifying someone who has a sexual interest in children? Are they supposed to look a certain way, have certain mannerisms? I'm not sure what nuance you were hoping to pick up on that would have given the game away.

Dressed as a school?

Sorry, serious subject, I'll get my coat...

DrRS**** - Member
How can people hide like that?

I do read people well. But I missed this.

I guess that's what I don't get. When presented with proper evil, I missed it. And it worries me

Don't be so hard on yourself but also don't assume you know people by "reading" them.

I harbour desires to own a road bike....

Well, no-one is "out" as a paedophile to anyone they socialise with who isn't also a paedophile, because prison.

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, this is important (if ick): [url= http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=12927907 ]"gold star" paedophiles[/url]

Tom and I became friends at the school I trained in. Same age as me, sharp, witty, gay and a bit of an diva, but nonetheless there were a group of us young teachers that hit it off. I even helped him move.

http://www.batleynews.co.uk/news/local/teacher-had-3-000-child-porn-pictures-1-1331751

And in the same school, John was the HoD for Maths. Heavily involved in youth football in Liversedge and Cleckheaton, he ran some of the football teams at BBEC. He had also mentored me in my GTP year.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/kirklees-teacher-jonathan-craven-14000-8362477

I had no idea, not even an inkling, as to their perversions. I'm currently one of the DCPC's for my school, and have always had a suspicious nature, but I missed these two. Haunts me to think that I might have inadvertantly put students in harms way during my career, but at the end of the day a career in education will always be appealing for predators.

My tutor. I didn't particularly like him but had no idea what he was really like.

http://www.****/news/article-475957/Teacher-filmed-pupils-underwear-class.html

From a slightly different angle, a lady I knew (successful neurologist) who seemed happy and content with life, 5 small children, nice husband etc hung herself one afternoon. I don't think there had been any signs whatsoever of her unhappiness.

I'm bi-polar, a fact that would surprise even close friends who I haven't told (there are few I have). Us mentals can be excellent at hiding our problems*. People who think they are good at reading people so often aren't. If you have something you want to hide, you put so much more effort into covering it up than someone else will put into "reading" them.

*STW fact - paddedfreddibnah probably saved my life by reading into my posts on here and emailing me out of the blue with support.

It's because, objectively, there is no evil. It is just a perception.
These people just perform some acts society deems criminal at this point in time.
To those people the acts seem normal and right although they realise they are considered criminal so hide them.
Some of the things linked to wouldn't be criminal in some other parts of the world today.

If forums existed 100 years ago this same thread could be about people who are secretly gay.
Or it could be a forum inside ISIS right now. They throw homosexuals off buildings.

So, why would it affect their advice to you on which Volkswagen diesel engine to go for in your new car?

I'm not condoning the acts or trying to bring up a discussion on how you define criminal sexual acts, but it is just a certain, small part of their lives, deliberately hidden. It's very presumptuous to think you could intuit it from their other behaviours.

I thought I knew my Dad, but a few years after he died my Mum told me that he had a child by an earlier marriage - in the 38 years I knew him he gave absolutely no clue to me that he had either been married before or had another child. She apparently lived in the same city where I grew up, and apparently all my relatives seemed to know about this apart from me, and according to my cousin he still had contact with her.

@Philby, I have a 21 y/o daughter by a previous relationship. I see her rarely as we've lived in different countries since she was three, but I call her on birthdays and Christmas, and will be going to her Uni graduation in a couple of month's time. I haven't mentioned her existence to my other daughter, now 10, although most of family & friends are well aware of it. I haven't consciously kept it secret from others, I just don't deliberately talk about it as it's a painful part of my life. People can be so judgemental, so I've only really felt comfortable sharing it with people who have been through similar, and can understand the complexities (and a bunch of perfect strangers on a bike forum!!).

I don't like having secrets from my daughter, and this is probably the only one, but have told myself (rightly or wrongly) that there hasn't yet been the right time to burst that bubble that she's my one and only child, and let her in on the messiness of adult relationships. It doesn't help that she's always wanted an older sister, but my other daughter doesn't want to see her - as some kind of punishment to me for 'abandoning' her but doting on her sister. I know it'd break her heart to know she has an older sister and then be shunned by her.

So, don't be too hard on your Dad, and I'm sure you did 'know' him in all other respects, and he had his reasons for keeping this one part of his life from you, and probably struggled with it constantly like I do. I have no idea whether I'm doing the right thing 'protecting' my daughter from this, and when would be the right time to tell her, which I definitely intend to at some point.

As someone who's been on the other end of this, and if it's not too awkward for you to share it on a public forum, I'd be interested in your advice. Would you rather your Dad told you? At what age do you think you'd have been able to handle it? Have you since got in touch with your sibling and has it worked out? Thanks.

I'm not condoning the acts or trying to bring up a discussion on how you define criminal sexual acts, but it is just a certain, small part of their lives, deliberately hidden. It's very presumptuous to think you could intuit it from their other behaviours.

Not sure I'd agree with your final point; the compulsion to carry out the act usually overrides caution, which can lead to patterns and trends emerging. Trouble is, by that stage, you're dealing with reactive measures, rather than predictive/proactive strategies...

I don't really get the op to be honest. What were you expecting? Shifty eyes?

Reading people is your intuition neatly sorting people into preconceived compartments, it's how the brain works with everything. 'He looks dodgy', or 'he looks ok'. etc.
But it's influenced by prejudice and all kinds of other things, and very easily fooled. See also Catholic Priests with a penchant for small boys.
You don't 'know' someone by 'reading' them.

People lie to themselves - anything from 'I'm not harming anyone' upwards. And once they've successfully lied to themselves it's a lot easier to lie to everyone else. And they can totally compartmentalise their lives.

I've never spotted anyone who messed with kids or was criminal in that way. But I lived with someone who was like two people. He had a level of self-delusion and self-justification that was difficult to comprehend. He would outright deny that he'd done stuff to me to the extent I even questioned myself. And on the outside he was charming and charismatic, kind and generous to everyone he knew.

It took me absolutely ages to come to the conclusion that he lived in a state of denial, he wouldn't own the nasty side at all. He was basically a contradiction. But now stories of people who live 'double lives' don't surprise me.

Trekster - Member
Met this guy once, took an instant dislike to him!

He used to hang about my hometown when I was young! 😯

Dressed as a school?

Sorry, serious subject, I'll get my coat...

Nah your right - KF's gonna be in an area with his prey.

Its a tricky thing thou as its easy to get into witch hunts and tbh the media love to stir all this...

I think that part of the problem and the reason a lot of sick people got into positions of power in the 70s is that we expect there to be something obviously different or other about them. Whereas the reality is that predatory paedophiles and other deviants can be be just as banally ordinary as the rest of us .

My mentor at work fleeced the company for £250,000 and used it to set up a stud farm in his wife's name. Killed himself when released on Police bail. His 9 year old son came into the office to collect his dad's personal effects and asked me if I'd known his dad. I told him his dad had been a really nice bloke and a friend to me.

I grew up a lot that day, one way and another.

Not really the same but I would like to also point out how the general public can be so two faced about people they know to be bad news.

For example. I went through school (Nursery to secondry) with a total barmpot of a lad. He started off with normal naughty stuff of a teenager but then progressed to some rather bad stuff with drugs, steroids and basically beating the crap out of anyone and everyone he came into contact with. I once heard a story of him abroad wanting to score some drugs. Aproached dealer and just beat the living crap out of him and walked off with his money and drugs (We can laugh about it being no issue but its not normal behaviour is it).

Anyhow, the guy recently 'died in his sleep' before he hit 40yrs old. There has been an outcry of grief from many of my old pals about the loss. The fight in his head is over, gentle giant is sleeping etc etc. I cant get past the fact he was a complete scumbag.

If someone lives their lives as a scumbag, they deserve to be remembered as such.

went to school with

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverley_Allitt

I know it's not quite the same as the OP, but a guy I went to school with murdered his girlfriend in 2007. Smashed her head in with a hammer 🙁

Totally shocked when I found out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6496885.stm

He's far left of this pic, I'm on the far right (leaning on the arse!)

[img] [/img]

This is my friend's Dad, I wasn't entirely shocked to hear it, but the scale of it surprised me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-19437177

Hmm None of the people I know or have known to my knowledge have been found guily of owt. Which means they're probably still at 'it'.
<looks closely at colleagues>
yep, its going to be that one.

[quote=woody2000 ]He's far left of this pic

He looks so innocent. Well dodgy looking chap on the right though, I'd watch out for him.

The fight in his head is over, gentle giant is sleeping etc etc. I cant get past the fact he was a complete scumbag.

It's difficult, isn't it. I'm inclined to agree with you, though I probably shouldn't.

In a lot of these sorts of cases, we're talking about people who are mentally ill. That "gold star" nonce article is a train of thought I've had rattling around uncomfortably in the back of my head for a while now trying to form an opinion on it; it's easy to throw around terms like "evil" but being attracted to kids is just how that person's brain happens to be wired, in the same way that some people might have a thing for blondes or same-sex partners or ankles or something. The only difference is that acting on those other things requires a willing partner rather than a victim.

So someone who's got a predilection for minors, but knows that acting on his fantasies is wrong and has vowed to ignore those urges and chose a life of celibacy, do we stick him on the register and lock him up just in case, or do we offer him support and counselling for his illness?

We're basically describing a thought crime here. Like most men my sexual preference is "women," but that doesn't mean I'm not safe to be left in the company of them in case I give in to my urges and rape one of them.

But.

Years ago, I was burgled, and it left me traumatised. It took years for me to be able to leave the house for extended periods of time without worrying what I'd come back to, and to get out of the habit of looking through the glass on the internal doors before opening them to try and see if the room looked how I'd left it. A little while after the incident, the lad who'd violated my home was found dead of a drugs overdose, and my attitude at the time was along the lines of "good, hope the cash from my stuff brought it about a bit sooner. One less junkie scumbag on the streets."

But of course, he could've been ill. Maybe he had learning difficulties. May have just fallen in with the wrong crowd, got hooked on drugs that he couldn't control, succumbed to peer pressure / desperation to start on a life of crime. Maybe with help, counselling, rehabilitation, he'd still be alive today and a model citizen.

But as a victim I couldn't get past the overriding belief that he was a junkie scumbag. 15-20 years later, I'm still not sure that I can. Logically I should maybe forgive him, feel sorry for him even; but emotionally I still think, **** him and the horse he rode in on.

Just as I can't get past "scumbag" for pour little Dougie, our current society is going to struggle to get past "nonce" when dealing with paedophiles. But I do wonder now whether treating it as an illness and allowing people to come forward for help might have the net effect of [i]reducing[/i] the number of incidents / attacks.

It's difficult, isn't it.

[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/zayden-veal-whitting-murder-harley-hicks-5150361 ]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/zayden-veal-whitting-murder-harley-hicks-5150361[/url]

[i]
A heartbroken mum has told how a former schoolfriend she once saved from suicide went on to brutally murder her baby son.

Vile Harley Hicks is serving a life sentence after he broke into Casey Veal's home before savagely beating ten-month-old Zayden to death in his cot.

Hicks has never given any real motive for the horrific killing, and the tragedy is all the more difficult for mum Casey to accept as the 21-year-old had once been considered a friend.[/i]

There's a couple of examples (none as bad as the above) in my life where people have gone beyond the pale with no real indication as to why. It feels like such a betrayal of trust. We all know people can do these things but we trust our own judgment to ensure it won't be anyone who we believe in.

You doubt your judgement and replay every conversation and all the times you looked into their eyes and didn't see what was lurking in there.

A lad I was a few years above at school [url= http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1999/sep/23/features11.g21 ]bludgeoned his mum to death with a wine bottle[/url] because she wouldn't lend him the car, and a guy who drank in the same pub as my brother [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/feb/11/vikramdodd ]ate his girlfriend[/url]. Both were "a bit odd", but not expected to do anything like this.

[quote=Cougar ]But I do wonder now whether treating it as an illness and allowing people to come forward for help might have the net effect of reducing the number of incidents / attacks.

Logically it ought to, as explained in that article (and kind of mentioned in some of the others linked). Plenty of evidence from others on here about how counselling has helped people get over issues by changing the way they think - no reason to expect that wouldn't also be the case for people who's sexual desires are illegal. Logically this should be the case both for offenders and non-offenders, but you get into a bit of a political mine field.

Logically this should be the case both for offenders and non-offenders, but you get into a bit of a political mine field.

Yeah, and that's the crux, isn't it. There's a wide gulf between someone being sexually attracted to children but knowing that they can never act on it, and, well, the likes of Jimmy Savile. The crime requires both the predilection to minors and the moral bankruptcy to act on it, and that's what society (and the gutter press) need to learn to differentiate between.

Thinking about it, it's kind of always been this way. I remember at school, a cry of "bums against the wall lads!" might go up if someone arrived who was considered to be a bit gay this week (probably for doing something gay in impeccable schoolboy logic like kissing a girl). It's never crossed my mind since, but the unspoken implication there was that if someone was homosexual, they were also a sexual predator and unless you took steps to protect yourself then a vigorous bumming was sure to follow.

Which of course is patent nonsense. But people have genuinely thought this. Homosexuality has been viewed with suspicion and fear (and worse) and it's taken us decades to reach a point where civilised society has mostly gone, "wait, you can't catch gayness from shaking hands and I'm not going to be raped? Why did no-one tell me this before?!" and got a bit more relaxed and froody about the whole thing. I wonder how many closet paedophiles there are, those who would never harm anyone, can't help what they are and would really quite like some help without fear of someone setting fire to their house?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this or what my point is, it's more of a stream-of-consciousness post. I think what I'm trying to say is, we need to grow up as a society and deal with this problem like adults if we actually want to protect children rather than sell newspapers.

Well put Cougar 🙂

The kids of a guy I work with used to play with Fred and Rose West's kids around the time they were bumping off young women. Apparently they were lovely people and he had no idea what they were up to 😯

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abuse-priest-alexander-bede-walsh-jailed-for-22-years-7547222.html

My dad worked for the Roman Catholic school mentioned in the article, he never suspected anything.

Yep, well said Cougar. Did anyone watch [i]The Peadophile Next Door[/i]?

It was about a celibate peadophile. Really made me think. He'd done absolutely nothing wrong in his life.

Logically it ought to, as explained in that article (and kind of mentioned in some of the others linked). Plenty of evidence from others on here about how counselling has helped people get over issues by changing the way they think - no reason to expect that wouldn't also be the case for people who's sexual desires are illegal. Logically this should be the case both for offenders and non-offenders, but you get into a bit of a political mine field.

An interesting article about just that: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31114106

Broadly I agree with cougar, but it must be said that there has NEVER been a case of a paedophile being "cured". I don't think there is any therapy in the world which would make me find curvy pretty women less attractive, and I'm not sure there is a way to do similar to paedos. I'm not saying we shouldn't try and I'm not advocating any kind of barbaric pre-punishment for them.

Apparently they were lovely people and he had no idea what they were up to

I think it was Alan Davies who did a routine about murderers always being quiet types who kept themselves to themselves. A neighbour, when interviewed, never says "what, Nutter Harries? Oh, he's mental!"

I don't think there is any therapy in the world which would make me find curvy pretty women less attractive, and I'm not sure there is a way to do similar to paedos.

All the [i]more[/i] reason to support them. If I were told tomorrow that not only could I not have a sexual relationship with a curvy, pretty woman but I couldn't seek out images of curvy, pretty women or look at curvy pretty women in a sexual way or even discuss the nature of my feelings with those close to me without running the risk of, at the least, violent condemnation - I'd find that an unimaginably hard life to live. Much as I'd like to think that I'm strong enough that I could live the virtuous life and control my impulses - in all honesty I'm not sure that I can say.

it must be said that there has NEVER been a case of a paedophile being "cured". I don't think there is any therapy in the world which would make me find curvy pretty women less attractive, and I'm not sure there is a way to do similar to paedos.

"NEVER"? That's a bold claim.

We seem to have found a fairly effective cure for dogs (and we spent years trying to cure them gayers, didn't we?)

In reply to PerthMTB (page 1).
My life has got me in a near identical situation, a daughter from a previous marriage and a son about 10 years younger from my current marriage. I broke the news to my son three years ago when he was 10 at the start of the school holidays. He took it pretty well and we said that the reason we hadn't told him before was that we didn't want him to get the idea that my relationship with his mother was anything less than permanent.
It's not all happy families as my daughter has proven qute unreliable at staying in contact but now everyone concerned knows and understands the situation.

Not sure how relevant this is without knowing actual figures but its been reported that a lot of child abusers were abused themselves, suggesting that its a learned / conditioned response rather than a genetic pre-disposition. Suggesting to me that counselling / therapy may have an effect. It's a pretty tragic cycle to be cauught in.

NEVER been a case of a paedophile being "cured"

Plenty of folk had one of homosexual experiences and that was their only experience and the same is true for paedophilia.

I agree with your broad point Wrecker but some have been "cured".
I think what Cougar is proposing is a sort of openess where they can openly get help to never act on their desires/feelings rather than be cured.

Having worked, briefly, with sex offenders some have a chance of being "cured" and some I would be using a spade and a shallow grave as a cure.

I'm sure most people pride themselves on being able to spot people who are deviant or evil. But I guess the truth is if we were all so good at spotting these people they'd never get away with anything. I suspect people who harbor urges like this are much better at disguising it than good people are at detecting it.

Yep, I was quite surprised when my GP turned out to be Britain's most prolific serial killer. He never mentioned or discussed it with me at all. If you're expected some sort of halo of evil to be floating above their heads, you're going to be disappointed. There was no fluffy white cat either.

Not sure how relevant this is without knowing actual figures but its been reported that a lot of child abusers were abused themselves, suggesting that its a learned / conditioned response rather than a genetic pre-disposition. Suggesting to me that counselling / therapy may have an effect. It's a pretty tragic cycle to be cauught in.

My wife deals with issues around child abuse has had to sit with a family tree of one particular family and connect (alleged/convicted) abusers and victims together with arrows just so that everyone was clear who had done what to who. IIRC, every abuser had been a victim at some point.

Tragically, sexual abuse of children is far more prevalent in our society than we'd like to think.

A lot of this would depend on the meaning of the word cured tbh
Plenty of folk had one of homosexual experiences and that was their only experience and the same is true for paedophilia.

Something ridiculous like 1/3rd of men at US colleges have admitted they would consider rape if they thought they could get away with it. Ergo the difference between rapists and potential rapists is usually impulse control, I reckon this probably applies to nonces as well - I think there are probably a lot more of them than people realize, again, difference being impulse control and also the fact that it's probably a sliding scale - some people have mild homosexual attractions etc.

The world is a scary place, we never truly know anyone - we are all at the end of the day in the deepest sense lonely as telepathy has yet to be invented. Choosing who to trust is at best an educated gamble.

it's probably a sliding scale

I can't imagine there's any doubt about that given the prevalence of young adolescent imagery in mainstream adult content.

Something ridiculous like 1/3rd of men at US colleges have admitted they would consider rape if they thought they could get away with it. Ergo the difference between rapists and potential rapists is usually impulse control,

I'd expect (and, really, hope) that a percentage of that is bluster. It'd be quite easy for me to come out with something like "yeah, I could totally commit murder if I could guarantee getting away with it," but in the cold light of day shoved in a room with a large knife and Piers Morgan I might well have sudden catastrophic cajones failure.

I think the way to mitigate the inherent scariness of the human condition is to realize that most people, outside of psychopaths cannot be considered truly evil. People with these problems are to be pitied, there's no such thing as soul, there's no such thing really as evil, like it or not we are purely products of biology and our environment - we most likely even lack true free will.

I've come to the conclusion that we live in an incredibly sad world and most peoples lives are to be pitied. People are born/raised with mental pathologies like Schizophrenia, that can lead them to kill their loved ones. Others are born/raised into OCD which can lead to all sorts of issues. Others develop depression. There's a rational and sad explanation that would describe the development of a mind like Hitlers, it's sad that someone can develop that level of malice and hatred in the first place and not feel more at peace with the world.

I think I am slowly ending up Buddhist or something in my outlook towards the world, I'm not sure.

I'd expect (and, really, hope) that a percentage of that is bluster. It'd be quite easy for me to come out with something like "yeah, I could totally commit murder if I could guarantee getting away with it," but in the cold light of day shoved in a room with a large knife and Piers Morgan I might well have sudden catastrophic cajones failure.

I'll see if I can track the study down.

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vio.2014.0022

"73 men in college, 31.7 percent of participants said they would act on “intentions to force a woman to sexual intercourse” if they were confident they could get away with it. "

I've come to the conclusion that we live in an incredibly sad world and most peoples lives are to be pitied.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you need to develop a sense of proportion. And also improve your punctuation.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you need to develop a sense of proportion. And also improve your punctuation.

Meh, I can't be bothered on a forum, I don't really think my posts through. Anyway I'm quite happy really, happier than most people shocked and scared by the human condition.

Occasionally I blow it all off with a bit of trolling and sarcasm. 😛

[i]. Anyway I'm quite happy really, happier than most people shocked and scared by the human condition.
[/i]
You sound like me 10 years ago. Now I'm a lot more jaded.

I'm quite happy really, happier than most people shocked and scared by the human condition.

But you think, and I quote, 'most peoples lives are to be pitied'? Genuinely, my GP was Harold Shipman and the lesson I took from that - at least in part - was that he was the exception rather than the rule.

None of my subsequent GPs have turned out to be pathological murderers and while I'm now a little wary of injections, it hasn't made me suspicious of humanity in general. Sure, people are capable of all sorts of nastiness, but mostly they're pretty ordinary and sometimes extraordinary in a positive way. Even people who you least expect it from at times. It's great.

I don't really see the advantage of being scared by the human condition, it is what it is, but anyway... I have a doctor's appointment to go to. 😉

Hypermasculinity reflects an exaggeration of
traditional masculine messages, such as dictating that real
men should enjoy danger, aggressively pursue sexual opportunities,
and stand ground in a fight

Christ I am two out of three there and I am a tofu munching liberal hand wringing bed wetter.

But you think, and I quote, 'most peoples lives are to be pitied'? Genuinely, my GP was Harold Shipman and the lesson I took from that - at least in part - was that he was the exception rather than the rule.

Shipman was a psychopath, he had no sense of empathy. Lot's and lots of criminals or the mentally ill aren't actually psychopaths.

Even Shipman was a product of his own genetics though and a product of the indifferent universe we find ourselves living in. Personally I pity him and people like him for not being able to feel empathy and love for their fellow men and women.

I think Witt's character in The Thin Red Line had a massive influence on how I view people.

In my post-student, pre-job days I lived with a guy for a couple of years who turned out to be a compulsive liar and schizophrenic. Me and Mrs Daz and all of our mates had known him for a few years and we regarded him as a good mate. A bit on the mental side but he seemed pretty normal. Then one day money started going missing. We initially refused to believe it, but the evidence soon mounted up and it was obviously him so he was eventually confronted with it. He continued with the denial for some time making excuses and inventing stories, so we started digging into his history, and it quickly became apparent that everything he'd told us about himself and his past was a fabrication. Various people tried to help him as he obviously had a problem, but then he disappeared, and no one ever saw him again. We didn't even find out what his real name was. We've still got no idea to this day what became of him. Very bizarre.

I knew a lad at college that I considered to be a great bloke.. I didn't hear from him in years, but always missed his calm, quiet nature and great sense of humour..

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/24/ceri-fuller-inquest-couple-break-up ]he made the news[/url]after killing his kids and himself.. somehow, I couldn't do anything but protect the name of the bloke I knew rather than the actions of the person he became 🙁

Some interesting thoughts here.

Ken was (is!) and educated man with a long professional career and a family. I get that, in the grand scheme of things, these facts don't matter much (Harold Shipman as mentioned above for instance).

I think the reason I posted this thread up was just the sheer shock of it all.

I really liked Ken - we'd even spoken of going on a camping trip together in Vermont (and normally I'm a right miserable sod in terms of making friends at work).

I guess it has knocked my trust. If Ken could hide this secret then what is being hidden by others. I appreciate that sounds like the beginning of paranoias but it's what it feels like today. I'm sure it'll subside in coming weeks.

I've been doing my bit today by making sure everyone who worked with him knows the news.......

catastrophic cajones failure

You shit your drawers?

Well, in the interests of balance, I always found my old chemistry teacher the creepiest adult I knew; his faux-matey manner grated with me and my mates something chronic.

So I wasn't surprised at all when he popped up in the news

[url= http://www.****/news/article-2263304/Former-deputy-headmaster-Derek-Farrand-sexually-abused-12-year-old-girl-helping-recover-previous-rape.html ]Ug[/url]