[Closed] We Christians

Sometimes it's not a choice

Time to end this one surely? How many STW forum rules can be broken in one thread?

Time for tolerance and bed perhaps?

nick1962 - Member

Being able to buy a tin of beans at a supermarket after 5pm on a Sunday is surely a trivial thing whereas the other is not?

But they are both examples of religious doctrine affecting society are they not? Which is what the discussion (at that time) was about.

Time for bed indeed...

teamhurtmore - Member
Time to end this one surely? How many STW forum rules can br broken in one go?

Tolerance and time for bed perhaps?

Night then. [url= http://www.dailybunny.com/daily_bunny_d8/fluffy_bunnies/ ]This might help if you're getting upset[/url]

Not going to get involved in this now but lifer look at the figures.Nearly 200,000 terminations in the UK in 2010,the vast majority for the mental well being of the mother.2% of 200k?
To me it is one of the modern ethical dilemmas.And as I said earlier I am an atheist so no religious axe to grind.
It's not religious doctrine making the law no matter how many bishops are in the Lords. moral issues don't only exist within a religious framework.
Night
God Bless 😉

😯 ...

The vast majority for the mental well-being of the mother

Really? Source?

It's not religious doctrine making the law no matter how many bishops are in the Lords. moral issues don't only exist within a religious framework.

I never said it was. But they block vote on issues affecting all of us because of a shared religious belief informing their view.

I think the word you are looking for is morality, not religion.

I never said it was, I said it was disproportionate.

you said

The Lords Spiritual wield disproportionate power [b]and their block voting on selected issues renders the upper house pointless.[/b]

backpeddling on a cycling forum are we 😉

House or Lords Members Total 788
(+21 peers on leave of absence or otherwise disqualified from sitting)

Political groups

HM Government
Conservative Party (218)
Liberal Democrats (91)
HM Most Loyal Opposition
Labour Party (239)
Other Opposition
Democratic Unionist Party (4)
Ulster Unionist Party (4)
UKIP (2)
Plaid Cymru (1)
Crossbenchers (186)
[b]Lords Spiritual (25)[/b]
Non-affiliated (19)

25/788 hardly a block vote 🙄

backpeddling on a cycling forum are we

😆

Fair enough was certainly a [i]slight[/i] touch of hyperbole in that. I still think the power, or more correctly the voice that they have is disproportionate. I would also say that the list of members is pretty misleading as it assumes they all turn up to every session.

stevewhyte - Member
I think the word you are looking for is morality, not religion.

No it wasn't. You seem to be conflating the two. Is it moral to deny a woman an abortion at 24 weeks if both her and the unborn child are likely to die otherwise? Is it moral to tell women that there are links between abortion and breast cancer? Or that there is a link with mental health problems?

You couldn't find a quote to back up your assertion that the death of Jesus allows TJ to live because it isn't there, Steve. The churches are in the habit of inventing stuff to make Jesus nicer and hell nastier. Officially in the Catholic chirch and unofficially in the protestant church.

But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

There is no hate in any of the comments I've made on this thread. My quotes are direct from the Bible so any hate there is is in the Bible itself. Your quote is pretty nasty and intimidating.

Much like this thread.

+1.

The churches are in the habit of inventing stuff to make Jesus nicer .....

Let's stick to the actual facts instead of making stuff up ? He was an OK kind of guy but by no means perfect ?

Would and "OK kind of guy" order his followers to bring his enemies before him and slit their throats, or stone anyone getting in his way or even go steal a donkey, Ernie?

Junkyard - Member
What personal freedom have you, as an individual, lost as a result of the Christian religion
I cannot work in many schools as I am not of that faith...a workplace discriminating against employees on the grounds of religion [b]and even though there are only 129 Muslim schools in the UK which leaves me a potential 3127 secondary schools (source ofsted) in England alone, I am still going to work myself into a froth.[/b]

POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

FTFY junky.

I worked in a Catholic secondary in Dundee, permanent, full time, with no questions asked about my religious beliefs at the interview.

Would and "OK kind of guy" order his followers to bring his enemies before him and slit their throats, or stone anyone getting in his way or even go steal a donkey, Ernie?

Ooh no, I don't think so. Is that what he did ? Doesn't sound like he was very nice in the first place, never mind about trying to make him look "nicer" 😐

Time to end this one surely? How many STW forum rules can be broken in one thread?

Time for tolerance and bed perhaps?

Break ALL of the rules! 😀

swamptin - Member
Time to end this one surely? How many STW forum rules can be broken in one thread?
Time for tolerance and bed perhaps?

Break ALL of the rules!

POSTED 4 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I thought there were only 10 and according to this thread you either believed them all or just two, depending on which side you are on?

Duckman were you of faith at the time and able to maintain the christian ethos of the school as they stipulate then?
I am not frothing [ can you sat rationale/stop the gentle hyperbole please] but the fact remains only religious organisations have the right to discriminate

why not give me some more examples or explain why you think it is fair that only the religious get to do this or why religious discrimination is ok.
Obvioulsy that is a bit trickier than a FTFY accusing me of frothing 🙄

To address the original question: Yes, I think they should leave religon out of it. Besides making it sound like we're all still living in caves, it smacks of sucking up to the electorate and the Americans.

Slightly ironic that Christians are the most warrior-like, top of the food chain fighters though isn't it? Why is that? Serious question, not a troll. Why is it that Christians (when it comes to wars/attack) are the most successful/warrior-like?

You'd have to go right back, to Saladin, the Moors to find anything comparable over 1,000yrs ago.

Why are we the most violent and why do continue to kill and say its for our religion?

stop the gentle hyperbole please

You go first. I was still a Christian at the time, however that was unknown and I had kept it under my hat as I wasn't Catholic.(but there wasn't any expectation of behaviour other than that expected of any teacher.) However that proved to be completely a non-issue, despite what I had heard/believed. I don't think it is fair that you can't work in the 120 odd Muslim schools (assuming you can't),just out of interest; how are you qualified to do so?

Actually I see; you are using a non-issue,that has not impacted on you in ANY way, to try and score a point on the internet? As you were.

CountZero - Member
Interesting how so many on here are having a go at Cameron, yet there is a profound silence regarding his vile, sanctimonious, hypocritical, money-grabbing predecessor and his equally vile wife. Who happily took us into two unwinnable conflicts, and pontificated at length about his faith.
Come on, show some consistency, and let's see equal amounts of vitriol directed at Bush's ass-licking poodle Blair.

Show me a speech that Blair made while he was PM in which he pontificates 'at length about his faith'.

Why is it that Christians (when it comes to wars/attack) are the most successful/warrior-like?

Because its 'christian' nations that presently have the biggest guns, by some considerable stretch. There are quite a few islamic nations out there who, given the firepower, would certainly be on the march.

Why on Earth do you think Iran are desperately trying to acquire nuclear weapons? Just because they think they'd be a nice thing to have? No. Because when they've got them, they can start chucking their weight about

Why are we the most violent

As opposed to cuddly old Israel, or those lovely, chilled, peace-loving Islamists?

Iran wants Nukes because Israel has them.

Because its 'christian' nations that presently have the biggest guns,

We've always had the biggest guns.

There are quite a few islamic nations out there who, given the firepower, would certainly be on the march.

I can only think of Turkey really. Iran will be wiped out if it tried attacking Israel, not by 'us' but via Nuclear weapons from Israel.

As opposed to cuddly old Israel,

Still catching up since it all kicked off but can I just say

See, I agree with that. But that's the problem with religion, you don't get to pick and choose, "christian values" means the whole package.

Course, a lot of people do pick and choose- personal hypocrisy being better than living your life by a set of rules you can't abide, but easier than changing your faith...

Iran wants Nukes because Israel has them.

could it not be that Iran wants nukes because a couple of large, low intelligence, ugly, nuclear equipped, playground bullies, with a very recent history of invasion and occupation have been sat growling intimidatingly on Irans doorstep for the last few years..?

Maybe they just want the security of a nuclear deterrant after seeing the horrific atrocities that have been perpetrated by the west in neighbouring countries in the last decade..?

Or shall we just blithely believe the latest propaganda campaigns to emanate from the consumerist superpowers who have vowed to '[s]bring down the axis of evil'[/s] carry out Dubya Bush's redneck kneejerk Islamaphobic crusade..?

oops double post

Turkey is secular. Its enshrined in its constitution. And half of it is geographically in Europe. And it wanted (pre-meltdown) to be part of the EU. Its hardly going to be going warmongering

just out of interest; how are you qualified to do so?

Actually I see; you are using a non-issue,that has not impacted on you in ANY way, to try and score a point on the internet? As you were.

Your psyhic powers are weak today but hey you keep up the gentle ad hominems rather than address the actual issue 🙄

I was looking for work this week and there was an interesting job at a school here is what they asked for

To work with the headteacher in creating, inspiring and embodying the Christian ethos and culture of this Church school, securing its Mission Statement with all members of XXXXXXXXX community and ensuring an environment for teaching and learning that empowers both staff and students to achieve their highest potential.

SO bit hard for an aethist to do not hard for you to do eh

This bit made me chuckle as well

2.2 To contribute to:
• Maintaining and developing the Christian ethos, values and overall purposes of XXXXXXX
• Formulating the aims and objectives of xxxxxx and policies for their implementation
• A development plan which will translate school aims and policies into actions
• Monitoring and evaluating the performance of XXXXX
• Implementing the governing body’s policies on equal opportunity issues for all staff and pupils in relation to sex, gender, race, disability and special needs
NO MENTION OF RELIGION THERE WHY COULD THIS BE????- not free to choose?
• The efficient organisation, management and supervision of school routines

How many openly gay people at your school?
How many practicising and openly catholics?
or Christian

Is this skewed from what one would expect on average etc- we know the answer dont bother

As a teacher I have to give you no marks as you failed to answer the question- its ok I know there are no other organisation allowed to discriminate and that only the religious get exemptions just like you know it hence you attack me.

We both know that it is not fair that the religious are exempt from equality law - they would not be happy if we used it to stop them getting jobs now would they. Imagine NO Catholics eh

Applauds YUNKI excellent posta nd rationale - they want them becasue it means we would leave them the **** alone North Korea for example.
They are useless as an offensive weapon as the other side would wipe you of fthe face of the earth it just means you can so damage the other side they wont fight you.

No my point is Turkey is a country that if inclined could pose an issue. Its intelligent, numerous and as proven in WWI can fight. Its one place on my list of places to visit as I've always wanted to watch the Sufi Whirling Dervishes

still reading through it

"wizard in the sky" ha ha, it's funny cos it's making fun of someone's stupidity, ha ha.

Hateful and tedious.

believe what you want to.. but it's easy to see in this humanistic modern age of logic how people can find some aspects of faith a bit peculiar..

Christianity: The belief that a Jewish zombie (the son of a sky wizard) can make you live forever: providing that you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically make him your master. All of this so that he can remove an evil force inside you that only exists because this woman (created from some dudes rib) was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magic tree.
Whats not to believe..!!

Completely agree Yunki, it wasn't an exhaustive list of reasons why they might want them!

EDIT - and original sin is a brilliant control method.

all this "interpetation of the rules" and "real christians/congregations aren't mysoginistic homophobes" might want to check what the heads of their religions are saying. Can't remember the CoE official party line on gay marriages at the present (negative would be my guess) but pretty sure the pope is dead against it.

I've no issue with what you personally believe aslong as it doesn't harm others but I do have issue with you being a fully paid up member of a club that [i]does[/i] affect and in some cases harm other people. religious groups [b]do[/b] have political sway, hence CMDs bit of pious pontificating, that affects my life and so I'll argue against organised religion.

Let's stick to the actual facts instead of making stuff up ? He was an OK kind of guy but by no means perfect ?

That's not an actual fact, it's a belief.

Does anyone else here feel close to God when you are out in the woods/fields with nature? I was at the top of the Peaks last weekend, alone and I suddenly felt close to crying. How beautiful. What wealth.

I read yesterday that an elder of the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" (Mormons), has urged his followers to "fight" the "rising tide of secularism" with reason.

This from a man who believes that a 19th century bloke discovered some gold tablets written on in an alien language which he was able to translate into 16th century English with the aid of a magic stone in a hat...

Hora, humans fight over anything. Most, anyway.

Read much about the Turkish atrocities during the last couple of centuries?

He also made some average ale that sells in pub chains 😉

Rusty the Armenian one?

Can't remember the CoE official party line on gay marriages at the present (negative would be my guess)

Actually, that is wrong. I know there are a whole bunch of Rowan Williams haterz here but he did more to move the CoE forward on this issue than many have done for a long time. It might be nice to think he can just set the rules and say let it be so but when you are head a collective rather than boss of a company you have to bring everyone along with you. He was doing this before he became archbishop and I'm sure he'll continue after

oldnpastit - Member

[b] How about keeping your religion between consenting adults in private[/b]

Perhaps because that's not what the Bible teaches?

"Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

The local Missionaries always seem to stop me when I'm carrying a clinking bag back from Bargain Booze. Maybe they are thirsty?

I thought the religious had already stated you're not supposed to follow everything in the bible, that'd be dumb.

Except, you are, that's what it's for. The ones who don't follow everything are choosing not to. Consolidating the 'word of god' with modern living is an increasingly difficult battle. What 21st Century Christians really need is Bible 2.0.

As soon as you decide "well, I'm not going to follow everything in the Bible" it becomes worthless. If you're going to reject bits, how do you then have faith in any of it?

Junky,Junky, why so angry?

Your psyhic powers are weak today but hey you keep up the gentle ad hominems rather than address the actual issue

No, I actually called you to task over your sweeping statement about being discriminated against. The Catholic school I worked in had a similar mission statement. It was never mentioned past that,as to do so would be discriminating against me on religious grounds which is illegal,up here (can't vouch for E&W ) So to me it answers your question.(you know the examples you asked for) Of course why would you want to work in a church school bearing in mind your views on religion?

Please accept my apologies,but I assume the rest of you post was meant to try and insult or demean me, but even by your standards it made no sense,so I only read it the once. So can we take the fact you like totally owned me with bombers/peed in my shoes as implied?

As soon as you decide "well, I'm not going to follow everything in the Bible" it becomes worthless. If you're going to reject bits, how do you then have faith in any of it?

And that Cougar is a very large part of why I am not a Christian anymore.

Its worse than that you are allowed to Murder a child up to 24 weeks.

Just in case you didnt know what that age looked like

Duckman - it is not illegal to discriminate on religious grounds if you are a religious organisation in Scotland. so yes - a Christian school can legally insist all its teachers are practising Christians. Same as nursing homes attached to religious organisations can do so.

Hora, I hate it when you're only pretending to be stupid.

It's very, very confusing. 🙂

Cougar - Member

As soon as you decide "well, I'm not going to follow everything in the Bible" it becomes worthless. If you're going to reject bits, how do you then have faith in any of it?

Not sure that is strictly true (and that comes from someone who has little time for coffee shop religion or politics). Theology shows us that there are many different ways of interpreting the Bible eg, the literal word of God, a history, a set or poems etc. The Creation story is a perfect example of the first and third cases.

I had a discussion with my son this morning (he is studying Theology, Philosophy and Ethics at A level) about the interpretation of Mark's Gospel including the notion that it may have been written by a woman!

JY - isn't there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

Anyway - just for interest, today's comment from Desmond Tutu in the FT about camels passing through a needles eye. Enjoy!

To put it more simply, can you be wealthy and spiritual at the same time or do you have to lead a life of austerity to be spiritual?....[back to the OP]....The Easter weekend provides an opportunity to reflect again on these wrenching topics, on what is important to us and what really matters.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7a457082-7cb1-11e1-8a27-00144feab49a.html#axzz1rA00nTUr

JY - isn't there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

No

children are impressionable and need to be protected from medieval superstition. If parents want their children to have a religious education this can be done outside of schools.

Religious schools are discriminatory, they reinforce prejudice and they indoctrinate the young.

Would you think maoist schools should be allowed? Where the teachings of Mao are taught as the one and only truth?

How abount mooonies? Scientologists?

JY - isn't there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

There is no rationale to seperate children based on the religious views of their parents.

Would you support segregated Labour, Conservative, UKIP schools?

Theology shows us that there are many different ways of interpreting the Bible

Oh, sure. But if anything that just reinforces the question. How can we have absolute faith in a religion based on a book that [i]we might not ever have translated / interpreted correctly?[/i] The whole 'is there / isn't there a god' bit aside, surely that's a shaky foundation to be building a belief system on?

Junky,Junky, why so angry

I am not, despite your instance, angry or forthing. Can I be livid or furious or irate in your next post please? \Whatever yoiu do please dont answer the questions.

I assume the rest of you post was meant to try and insult or demean me, but even by your standards it made no sense,so I only read it the once

How many openly gay people at your school?
How many practicising and openly catholics?
or Christian

It is disingenuous nothing I said was that hard to understand but the answers refute your view hence why you just do the sarcasm/attack...it is the stw way attack the person, demean their argument, ignore the questions never concede the other person has a point and plough on into increasingly personal attacks

Well down we are all proud of you

The Catholic school I worked in had a similar mission statement. It was never mentioned past that,as to do so would be discriminating against me on religious grounds which is illegal,up here

Did you mention your beliefs in your application? Church going as a hobby etc made no reference whatsoever to how you could support this in the application form or your religious views etc.. Again of course you did or they would not have interviewed you. So there was no reason to ask at interview . they only interviewed those of faith

If it is not taken into account why don’t you just tell me what percentage are catholics and practicising religious people or how many gay teachers you have met in a catholic school. Obviously it wont be skewed above average if your argument is true that they don’t discriminate

They discriminate we all know it, especially you as you work there.

To cry “confusion” at the simplistic question/point is pathetic and as believable as the Christian message
I would rather not descend into personal attacks , we are just discussing facts accept them or refute them no need for the pointless personal stuff

JY - isn't there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

Interestingly t here are some anomalies here. Personally I dont mind religious schools per se what I do object to is them being taxpayer funded and potentially my child having to attend

We have three National Curriculum items in schools
Maths, English and RE
I mean seriously WHo TF thinks RE is that important an issue that all children need to be taught it at the expense of say science, economics, history, philosophy whatever

If you belong ot a faith you can go to the nearest school of that faith and the LEA [ taxpayers] will pay your transport costs to get there - though they are reducing this

If you are not of faith you need to send your child to the nearest school – there is no right for non faith people top send their kids to the nearest non faith school - test case still ongoing iirc

This mean inevitably you will have children who do not follow a religion being educated [ indoctrinated??] into that faith and the parent shave no choice and we all fund this

that is basically what is wrong with it ....i am ignoring the fact they are actually wrong about their god and therefore defeating the whole point of education 😉

Perfectly respect all your opinions and also respect my own choice to send my children to school with a strong Christian ethic including daily services and even Sunday Chapel. Both my sons study Theology (at different levels) and have been capable of making their own informed opinions on the extent/lack of their own faith. They have been very well taught to analyse all subjects including theology in detail and to assess subjects critically and well beyond any government imposed (talk about indoctrination!) syllabus.

At this time of year, my older son enjoys pointing out the regular misinterpretations of the Easter story. So rather than being indoctrinated, he has been very well educated - ie, exposed to many different ideas including a Christian faith while being given the critical faculties to question them all to reach his own conclusion. Hence he is capable of having rigorous and well-informed debates with friends/family members who have a much more orthodox faith. I am very glad to have had the "freedom' to educate him that way and even happier that there was no indoctrination!!

I respect the liberty of those who wish to have their children educated in the context of any religious faith as much as I respect the liberty of those who wish to avoid their children being educated in the context of medieval superstition.

Cougar - I am the wrong person to ask, since I do not believe that the Bible is to be interpreted literally.

JY - cross post. Modern RE seems very different from the Theology/Divinity that I studied at school. Indeed at A level, the course my son takes is Theology, Philosophy and Ethics. A brilliant and challenging course for developing critical faculties - understanding Kant at 17!!!!!

I think I have addressed my views on your last sentance, but accept that my conclusion is based on a very small sample 😉 !!

my own choice to send my children to school with a strong Christian ethic including daily services and even Sunday Chapel

So rather than being indoctrinated, he has been very well educated

🙄

At this time of year, my older son enjoys pointing out the regular misinterpretations of the Easter story

Are you posting this from your parlour in 1897?

Binners - yes, of course! Actually watching the absurdity/misinterpretation of Passion Story as depicted in local high street. My son thought it was ridiculous and inaccurate.

Mr Whoppit - fourtunately both are perfectly able to move beyond the superficial interpretion of my comments, that's education for you!

aye I dont mind choice i just dont want to pay for a religious one.

Nor is it surprising that people of faith are happy that their kids go to faith based education now is it.

Did they teach them about Eoster?

The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

The education can be good or bad it just depends but I dont want my kids learning a religious ethos or anything about it tbh as it is a ll a load of old bollocks

My kids go to a non religious school and my son was made to write a prayer to Jesus..do we force bnelivers to attend humanist ceremonies or do something so against their beliefs

yes I complained and the devoutly religious Teaching Assistant has been warned of her future conduct.

FWIW I never read the prayer he ripped it up and would not let me read it and was very cross about having to do it [ aged 6].

THM relaxing at home
[img] [/img]

You have successfully indoctrinated your children into a medieval superstition. Well done!

However this does shed light on your general lack of rational behaviour and thought and credulous nature.

More to be pitied than hated.

aye I dont mind choice i just dont want to pay for a religious one.

Nor is it surprising that people of faith are happy that their kids go to faith based education now is it.

Did they teach them about Eoster?

The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

The education can be good or bad it just depends but I dont want my kids learning a religious ethos or anything about it tbh as it is a ll a load of old bollocks

My kids go to a non religious school and my son was made to write a prayer to Jesus..do we force bnelivers to attend humanist ceremonies or do something so against their beliefs

yes I complained and the devoutly religious Teaching Assistant has been warned of her future conduct.

FWIW I never read the prayer he ripped it up and would not let me read it and was very cross about having to do it [ aged 6].

THM relaxing at home
[img] [/img]

JY ironical and worrying that your son was forced to write a prayer whereas that would never happen to mine? Why would a non-religious school do that, or any school for that matter?

Why would a non-religious school do that, or any school for that matter?

Wouldn't it be good to get primary school children to invent their own Gods/Religions. Whatever they fancy?

I bet you'd get some absolute belters

TandemJeremy - Member
You have successfully indoctrinated your children into a medieval superstition. Well done!

However this does shed light on your general lack of rational behaviour and thought and credulous nature.

More to be pitied than hated.

I have no interest in engaging in another argument with you TJ especially give the personal nature of this comment. I have no desire to be banned again as a result of your provocation. But your own narrow mindness is merely exposed by this comment.

My children have been given excellent tools to critically analyse all aspects of religion and do not need your pity. They are capable and educated to make their own informed decisions. But thanks for the parenting insults. True to form again!!

Tolerance?!?

More to be pitied than hated.

Captain superior at his best again 🙂

Yo have not given them anything but indoctrinated them into a superstition. if they were able to "critically analyse all aspects of religion" they would reject it as the load of twaddle it is.

However this does shed a lot of light on your intolerant patronising attitude and your assurance of your own superiority.

So rather than being indoctrinated, he has been very well educated - ie, exposed to many different ideas

So presumably as part of this broad, non-biased education, you've also taught them all about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism...?

TJ you are doing no one any favours by criticising peoples parenting skills and possibly calling their kids and them idiots however much disregard you have for their chosen beliefs.

Edit I'd let the indoctrination comment go, my parents probably wouldn't say they indoctrinated me but they bloody well did.

do we force bnelivers to attend humanist ceremonies or do something so against their beliefs

My daughter goes to a non denominational school so is forced to learn about other faiths, it isn't a problem for her or us. In fact it is a positively good thing.

Your child's experience had nothing to do with religion in general and more to do with one particular person who was appropriately reprimanded - and you know it.

However this does shed a lot of light on your intolerant patronising attitude and your assurance of your own superiority.

[img] [/img]

or how many gay teachers you have met in a catholic school.

I went to a Catholic Grammar School (formally a Convent School) for the first few years there we had several Nuns still teaching.

From 1981-1988. We had two openly Gay teachers at the school in that time. One male and one female.

There was no issue from the actual School's point of view, although as usual the kids often took the piss (behind their backs)

I also had a teacher of RE and A Level Theology who was not Catholic.
He referred to himself as Agnostic and was not brought up in any faith at all.

Sorry if that doesn't match what you wanted to hear, but it's my own personal experience.

Donk - its that teamhurtmore claims to be liberal, tolerant and openminded while being conservative, intolerant and not receptive to ideas at all.

I now understand why he is like this. I do pity him.

Its just a shame he has indoctrinated his children while he is at it

Just stop, chaps!

[b]You can't argue against [i]'blind faith'[/i][/b]

Thankfully Britain is a fairly tolerant place and I can cope so long as I am not having religion forced upon me. I'm even nice to the door-knocking missionaries.

I gently roll my eyes when our 'religious leaders' speak forth on matters of morals, problems with gender equality and their very weird obsession with what other people are doing behind closed doors with other people.

I do, however, object very strongly to "[b]Thought for The Day[/b]"....