You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Grand Theft auto. Nice stuff modern culture. Do you not get it? Religious or Atheist "HUMANS ARE STUPID". I really this quote from Akira:
Kei (Japanese Version): What if there wee some mistake and the progression went wrong and something like an amoeba were given power like a human's?
Kaneda (Japanese Version): Akira is an amoeba?
Kei (Japanese Version): Amoebas don't build there own houses and brigdes do they? They just devour all the food around them.
Unfortunately we have been given power like humans but we are as stupid as amoebas
Cougar. You should become a Quaker then or other more tolerant forms of Christianity. CofE and the Catholic church have no problem with evolution as far as I can remember. Gene Robinson anyone? As with all human thought tit is a broad church.
Oh, sure. But that wasn't what I was referring to. Read the second half of the wikipedia entry.
Would you honestly be able to say you weren't being negative in your listing?
I was trying to be objective, and (I thought, at least) I was largely positive. Was I not?
And, are you are telling me that if I asked 100 people what they would describe as Christian values, the majority would say they hadn't a clue; that it was too complex a question?
I imagine you'd get many different answers, which is the point I was getting at. That's why it's not a simple question. But I don't know, I can only tell you what one person would say.
TJ, stop frothing!
As noted above, the only worse than an evengelical Christian is an atheist who gets all excited about silly things like christianity. Treat it with a discerning lack of interest and they'll all go away.
Oh by the way Christianity is usually not regarded as a rule based religion like Judaism and Islam.
It's my bet that they'll be welcomed with open arms by the vast majority of the folk in the church who couldn't give two hoots about their sexuality.
They're not very good Christians, then. They're disobeying the teachings of their faith. The Bible doesn't allow for flexibility, it's the word of god, isn't it?
...and for goodness sake people, let's have a wee bit of spell checking!
They don't tho crickey - they continue to tell us we are inferior and worth less. If they would keep it between consenting adults in private I wouldn't mind
I was actually generally talking about the Church of Scotland but pretty much the same thing. It's only aethiests who get all worked up about the nastier parts of Leviticus, forgetting that it is only a tiny, tiny part of the Bible.
I couldn't tell you of anyone who takes everything in the Bible literally; it's impossible to do. I've met loads of Christians in my life and never ever met one who hates gay people. As I said, the hatred in these threads generally comes from aethiests, and I can't see why. No-one is forcing anyone to believe in God if they don't want to.
Er so did people agreewith me or not?
I'll stick to posting about gavin henson in the future!
They're not very good Christians, then. They're disobeying the teachings of their faith. The Bible doesn't allow for flexibility, it's the word of god, isn't it?
As above Christianity is not a rule based religion. Most stuff is subject to interpretation.
Grand Theft auto. Nice stuff modern culture.
Choice, innit.
There's a world of difference between violent games and being violent, despite what the tabloids would have you believe.
"wizard in the sky" ha ha, it's funny cos it's making fun of someone's stupidity, ha ha.Hateful and tedious.
Making fun of stupidity? Yes. Tedious? Probably. Hateful? No. God doesn't exist. You *do* believe a wizard lives in the sky. You believe another wizard (this one is a baddy) lives under the ground. Ergo you will be mocked mercilessly and without sympathy.
It's not nice to mock the afflicted. You should offer help. Maybe have a door-to-door campaign, issue a few leaflets.
They're not very good Christians, then. They're disobeying the teachings of their faith. The Bible doesn't allow for flexibility, it's the word of god, isn't it?
It's as though people actually want to be hated, just to prove some point. And when they are told they aren't hated they seem to get quite irate. Something I'll never understand.
The Bible is actually pretty flexible. It's very much open to interpretation.
Jesus Christ I'm agreeing with TJ
*VORTEX* SAVE YOURSELVES
..and for goodness sake people
Go on Crikey, correct it. I'm afraid you get what I type with my butter fingers. This forum moves so fast that if I reread and correct the moment has gone.
But TJ, by ranting on and being over the top about it, you give them credence, you make it appear that what they have to say has substance and must be decried.
We all know it's a load of hocus pocus, but relax about it and let them pretend that it's important. We live in an ever more secular society, Alpha courses notwithstanding, so chill and let them squabble about how to deal with homosexuality.
As long as it has no impact, who cares?
Making fun of stupidity? Yes. Tedious? Probably. Hateful? No. God doesn't exist. You *do* believe a wizard lives in the sky. You believe another wizard (this one is a baddy) lives under the ground. Ergo you will be mocked mercilessly and without sympathy.
Why is it deemed a good thing to mock mercilessly and without sympathy.
Amazingly hate-filled idea.
So, because you believe God doesn't exist anyone who does deserves to be, metaphorically speaking, spat upon?
Lovely.
Kenny - so these people are not practising Christians then if they don't believe the bible. Its not a pick and mix religion. Its the word of god.
Which other bits do you chose not to believe? Do you allow money lenders in your temple? How about coveting they neighbours ass? ( can't be bothered to look up the exact wording)
this is a part of the massive hypocrisy of the "christians" - quite happy (some of them) to ignore the teachings of their prophet if it suits them
As for this
No-one is forcing anyone to believe in God if they don't want to.
Actually Christians are constantly trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us - public pronouncements all the time on all sorts of things.
When you keep it to consenting adults in private then it will be OK - when yo want me to live by your weird and arbitrary rules then its not acceptable.
This is why people like me dislike religion - that and the hatred and prejudice in engenders amongst its devotees - most of whom are to blind to realise that this is so. Its a basic tenet that believers are superior to non believers and that is prejudicial and unpleasant.
TandemJeremy - MemberNo - its the religious that are hateful and tedious along with their foul patronising and prejudicial assumption of (moral) supreriority.
PMSL
it amazing how many non Christians clearly have expert knowledge of the one "true" version of the faith and feel able to label anyone not conforming to their interpretation of the "true" faith as
not very good Christians
I assume all you athetist secularists volunteer to work all the religious holiday's (Christmas, Easter etc) and don't give your kids Christmas presents or easter eggs 😉
Actually Christians are constantly trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us - public pronouncements all the time on all sorts of things
Richard Dawkins is a shrinking violet isn't he? 🙄
What would people say if you asked them to verbally state what Christian values were?
I have to say that I am unaware of any "value" that is uniquely "Christian". Just because some values have been appropriated by christianity does not make them the sole preserve of that religion.
Richard Dawkins is a shrinking violet isn't he?
No he's not but then he also doesn't want to force his beliefs onto others, he wants people to think for themselves which is different thing altogether.
It's as though people actually want to be hated, just to prove some point. And when they are told they aren't hated they seem to get quite irate. Something I'll never understand.
I've had this sort of conversation with people who are a lot less liberal and more aggressively "Christian" than a lot of people here seem to be. I'm simply repeating what I've been told previously.
The Bible is actually pretty flexible. It's very much open to interpretation.
What I don't follow here is, if the Bible is indeed open to interpretation, then how can you have 'faith' in it? How can you trust anything it tells you?
Crickey -As long as it has no impact, who cares?
It has impact tho - thats why I care.
I accept your [point and I know I won't change any of their minds on here. However when their priests make public pronouncements attempting to influence the way I live and when they promote hatred and discrimination then I will rail against them.
#For example I would not force churches to perform homosexual marriages but I will cry "prejudice and hatred" to their attempts to prevent homosexuals getting married in a civil ceremony
TJ are you alright, you seen to be havning some kind of breakdown. Seriously chill.
Big and daft - a couple of examples of the Christian assumption of superiority on this thread. Its abhorrent
TandemJeremy - Member
....people are not practising Christians then if they don't believe the bible. Its not a pick and mix religion. Its the word of god.
Actually it's "the word of God" as written by man, in a cultural context we cannot fully understand and subject to numerous translations and interpretations - please try and represent your viewpoint in a more civilized and mature manner.....
this is a part of the massive hypocrisy of the "christians" - quite happy (some of them) to ignore the teachings of their prophet if it suits them
have you demoted Jesus?, I thought Christians believed he was the son of God not some common or garden prophet 😉
TJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
Fundamentalist religious beliefs relying literally on ancient texts are clearly nonsense.But it is also nonsensical for those with contrary reviews to be quoting them as some sort of intellectual critique.
As it would be nonsensical criticisng contemporary secular scientific rationalists because of the views of ancient scientists which are clearly wrong.
AFAIK Jesus the Jew didnt form the Spanish Inquisition ,burn witches, homosexuals or any of the other trite nonsense that gets quoted in these threads.Men did!
Some might say evil men.
Stevenwhyte - yo might want to stop with your assumptions of superiority and patronising drivel.
consenting adults in private please or accept the mockery of rationalists.
Your faith is abhorrent to me.
I assume all you athetist secularists volunteer to work all the religious holiday's (Christmas, Easter etc) and don't give your kids Christmas presents or easter eggs
No, because these are [i]public holidays.[/i] They may have come from religious celebrations (arguably), but the "real value" of Christmas is long forgotten by many (most?) people other than lip service. I don't work bank holidays either, but I've never actually worked in a bank.
By your argument, I assume that all you Christians have renamed all the days of the week as you no longer worship Thor and Woden, or the Sun and Moon. Don't you have a commandment about false gods?
TJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
Can we take a vote on that?
(-:
so these people are not practising Christians then if they don't believe the bible. Its not a pick and mix religion. Its the word of god.
The reality is that it is virtually impossible to follow literally the teachings of the Bible. Ironically it's only aethiests who seem to insist that folk do so. I suspect most Christians don't care if someone thinks they are "bad" or "good" Christians, as long as they are leading a life they believe to be correct and good.
Actually Christians are constantly trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us - public pronouncements all the time on all sorts of things.
Public pronouncements are made by lots of folk. Scientists, politicians, Richard Dawkins, loads of others and on all different subjects. The reality is that the Church is still a large part of the fabric of our society.
when yo want me to live by your weird and arbitrary rules then its not acceptable.
Give me an example please.
Its a basic tenet that believers are superior to non believers and that is prejudicial and unpleasant.
Again, look back through this thread and I think you'll find it's the non-believers who (not all of them I admit) generally come across as believing themselves to be superior and displaying it in an unpleasant way. Show me an example from this thread of someone Christian saying anything unpleasant or nasty please.
We all know it's a load of hocus pocus, but relax about it and let them pretend that it's important. We live in an ever more [s]secular [/s] consumerist society, Alpha courses notwithstanding, so chill and let them squabble about how to deal with homosexuality.
You forgot the bit at the end " and lets go shopping." 🙂
I couldn't tell you of anyone who takes everything in the Bible literally; it's impossible to do. I've met loads of Christians in my life and never ever met one who hates gay people.
I've met quite a few, albeit in the US.
TandemJeremy - MemberStevenwhyte - yo might want to stop with your assumptions of superiority and patronising drivel.
Sod inviting you round when the vicar comes for tea - how rude 😐
(-:
You do your smileys upside down compared to everyone else. Sinner! 😉
+1 kennyp
And for the record I am an atheist 😉
"when yo want me to live by your weird and arbitrary rules then its not acceptable."Give me an example please.
Predjudice against homosexuals. No homosexual marriage, restrictions on abortion and contraception in many countries.
Sunday trading hours
Show me an example from this thread of someone Christian saying anything unpleasant or nasty please.
Here you go
TJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
But dont worry regardless of what you do or who your are God loves you.
I find this very offensive indeed. It is a result of an assumption of moral superiority and its patronising to those of a rational mindset. offensive and unpleasant
FeeFoo - Member"wizard in the sky" ha ha, it's funny cos it's making fun of someone's stupidity, ha ha.
Hateful and tedious.
nasty snipey comment from one of the defenders of religion.
Again, look back through this thread and I think you'll find it's the non-believers who (not all of them I admit) generally come across as believing themselves to be superior and displaying it in an unpleasant way. Show me an example from this thread of someone Christian saying anything unpleasant or nasty please.
True dat.
nasty snipey comment from one of the defenders of religion.
Whoa! Tenuous argument alert!
This has popped up in my social network of choice today, more than once. Its worth a read: [url= http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html ]http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html[/url]
Live and let live and share the love around. There's too much hate in the world already 🙂
Why is it deemed a good thing to mock mercilessly and without sympathy. Amazingly hate-filled idea. So, because you believe God doesn't exist anyone who does deserves to be, metaphorically speaking, spat upon?
Lovely.
No you get me all wrong, there's no hate here. Amusement, bafflement and pity? Lots. You believe that a fairy wizard lives in the clouds.
Predjudice against homosexuals. No homosexual marriage, restrictions on abortion and contraception in many countries.
Sunday trading hours
Where? How many Christian theocratic states are there?
Sunday trading hours
Good point.
No doubt about it - that JC geezer's got a lot to answer for.
You believe that a fairy wizard lives in the clouds.
I don't actually.
No you get me all wrong, there's no hate here. Amusement, bafflement and pity? Lots
It's a stance based on condescension. I find that quite nasty behaviour to your fellow man.
You do your smileys upside down compared to everyone else. Sinner!
No, they're left-handed.
It's a stance based on condescension. I find that quite nasty behaviour to your fellow man.
Both sides are certainly guilty of that.
Predjudice against homosexuals. No homosexual marriage, restrictions on abortion and contraception in many countries.
Sunday trading hours
They aren't necessarily weird or arbitary. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with them, but societies are free to make their own laws and groups of people, both religious and not, have the right to lobby in favour of laws that they believe are for the benefit of said societies. As for the Sunday trading laws, well leaving aside any religious debate, is there really any need for us to have round the clock every day access to constant spending. What's wrong with giving the shop employees at least one day a week to spend with their families. Is it too much to ask society to go 24 hours without using a credit card?
I find this very offensive indeed. It is a result of an assumption of moral superiority and its patronising to those of a rational mindset. offensive and unpleasant
Someone trying to do something nice for you (even if you disagree) and you find it very offensive? And you accuse them of assuming moral superiority and then use the phrase "to those of a rational midset" which is surely doing just the same?
It's a stance based on condescension. I find that quite nasty behaviour to your fellow man.
Yup - same as this
TJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
But dont worry regardless of what you do or who your are God loves you.
I find this unpleasant and patronising. The assumption of superiority from the "Christians" along with the prejudice they espouse is far more unpleasant than a bit of mockery,
How about a bit of do as you would be done by? or turning the other cheek?
How about keeping your religion between consenting adults in private
TJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
A quote from the Bible to back that up please.
KennyP
Yes - I find it offensive - And yes it does show an assumption of superiority I find most unpleasant. Its that assumption of superiority that leads to the prejudice religions engender.
I admit my stance is based on condescension. It's the same stance I have on the Tooth Fairy or Santa or the Gruffalo. OK if you're 5 years old, not OK if you're an adult.
You mean the Gruffalo isn't real?
No, they're left-handed.
Hmm... sinister behaviour, that.
is there really any need for us to have round the clock every day access to constant spending. What's wrong with giving the shop employees at least one day a week to spend with their families. Is it too much to ask society to go 24 hours without using a credit card?
What's wrong is, it mandates behaviour and removes the freedom of choice.
I'm not out to win an argument here, I just (naively) think it'd be a nicer place to live if people didn't feel the need to condescend.
It's like laughing at trainspotters or model railway enthusiasts or mtbers.
What purpose does it serve other than to fleetingly make you feel better about yourself.
It's an empty life philosophy in my opinion.
How about keeping your religion between consenting adults in private
They don't have churches/mosques/temples/synagogues down your way ?
Where do they do it ?
Yes - I find it offensive - And yes it does show an assumption of superiority I find most unpleasant. Its that assumption of superiority that leads to the prejudice religions engender.
But TJ, you then went on to use the phrase
so surely that makes you equally guilty of an assumption of superiority?to those of a rational mindset
How about keeping your religion between consenting adults in private
Perhaps because that's not what the Bible teaches?
Edukator - MemberTJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
A quote from the Bible to back that up please.
A few just for you Edukator
The LORD is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation.
Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation.’”
And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham
Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
What's wrong is, it mandates behaviour and removes the freedom of choice.
How exactly? Freedom to shop seven days a week is hardly a fundamental human right. I don't see how letting shop employees have one day at home with their families is removing the freedom of choice?
As an experiment, why doesn't someone on here who is gay go into one of the mainstream Christian churches, say that they are gay and see what sort of welcome they get.
It's my bet that they'll be welcomed with open arms by the vast majority of the folk in the church who couldn't give two hoots about their sexuality.
Just to reiterate what was said earlier, the gay and lesbian folks that I know that go to church are openly welcomed by the people there. Those I know that keep quiet about their homosexuality also do so outside of the church. Those who I know well take their faith seriously and the well known passages that have been mentioned already can be difficult to deal with - but they try rather than give up because it doesn't match with what someone on the internet thinks Christianity is about.
"Wii Christians"
Great game idea....you can either play as the lion or the christian in this superb Coliseum simulation for all the family
FeeFoo - MemberI'm not out to win an argument here, I just (naively) think it'd be a nicer place to live if people didn't feel the need to condescend.
good - then understand the condescending nature of
TJ Jesus died so that you may live, you might want to say thanks.
But dont worry regardless of what you do or who your are God loves you.
Keep religion in private please and don't assume you are superior adn use that to be condescending to the rest of us
And yes it does show an assumption of superiority I find most unpleasant. Its that assumption of superiority that leads to the prejudice religions engender.
I think that maybe an assumption too far TJ
6 billion + people who follow a whole array of differing religions....
But I know what you meant 🙂
It's people who make assumptions of superiority.It's all about people really.
BTW What tyres for the Lion's den?
I can see nothing in your biblical quotes to support you statement, Steve. None of your quotes indicates that it is the death of Jesus that allows TJ to live.
Keep hunting.
Keep religion in private please
So there you go. Someone starts the usual thread knocking Christians, a few folk get frothy and then when someone dares to speak back they are told to keep their religion private 🙁
You are partly right TJ in that some religious folk can be preachy, over the top and judgemental but the vast majority that I have ever met are normal folks that are not like that at all (as you have said yourself before I believe). It would be like judging any group my the mentalists within it rather that the majority
Keep religion in private please and don't assume you are superior adn use that to be condescending to the rest of us
But TJ, less than an hour ago you used the phrase "to those of a rational mindset". Surely that's you doing exactly that?
Keep religion in private please
If religion can be vilified in public then it has every right to defend itself in public.
Kenny - "Rational mindset" is not making a moral judgement. Its a statement of fact. Religion is not rational by definition - its a matter of faith.
leffeboy - Member
..... some religious folk can be preachy, over the top and judgemental
as can some non-religious folk !
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
TandemJeremy - Member
.... its a matter of faith.
which people are surely entitled to hold and communicate - or are you advocating religious censorship ?
How exactly? Freedom to shop seven days a week is hardly a fundamental human right. I don't see how letting shop employees have one day at home with their families is removing the freedom of choice?
Well, we weren't talking about human rights, we were talking about laws.
I don't see how opening shops on a Sunday prevents employees from having one, or six, days at home with their families. Neither do I see how closing a shop on Sunday automatically gives people a day off; plenty of people still work in stores after the front doors locked.
What it does mean is stores can't choose to, say, open on Sunday and close on Tuesday. It means that when I'm making a spag bol and find I'm out of (veggie) mince at 6pm on a Sunday, I'm knackered.
And sure, it's hardly the end of the world. Point is, there's no real reason for it beyond its religious trappings, outside of religion it's unnecessary and arbitrary.
It's unimportant in the grand scheme of things of course; just an example.
Hilldodger - no - they can do what they like between consenting adults in private.
Waht I cannot accept is when they tell me I am of inferior morals because I do not believe or attempt to dictate what I can and cannot do because of their belief.
kennyp - MemberKeep religion in private please and don't assume you are superior adn use that to be condescending to the rest of us
But TJ, less than an hour ago you used the phrase "to those of a rational mindset". Surely that's you doing exactly that?
TandemJeremy - MemberKenny - "Rational mindset" is not making a moral judgement. Its a statement of fact. Religion is not rational by definition - its a matter of faith.
TJ Condescending , morality? Confused.
Surely a "rational mindset" is relative and subjective.
I am sure Stalin (at least in his eyes) was in a rational mindset when he committed his many atrocities
hilldodger - Memberwhich people are surely entitled to hold and communicate - or are you advocating religious censorship ?
There's a difference between holding and communicating your faith, and pushing it on others, obviously. "The values of the Bible, the values of Christianity, are the values that we need" or "you might want to say thanks."
Edukator - Member
But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.