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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/04/david-cameron-god-easter?fb=optOut
"The values of the Bible, the values of Christianity, are the values that we need."
I think we should have laws against this sort of thing, Goddist should keep their views out of the state
I agree there should be separation between church and state, but at the end of the day Christian values all boil down to not being a **** and getting on with everyone, which is what the world could do with a bit more of.
Quoting Luke eh. I can do that too:
Luke 19 27
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me."
Cameron has decided to "do God" in public
s****
I think it's quite bizarre how such a selfish, wealth and status obsessed, individual who leads a similarly dysfunctional party can worship one of the biggest socialists (albeit mythological, p'raps?!) history has to offer.
hmmmbut at the end of the day Christian values all boil down to not being a **** and getting on with everyone
Christian values all boil down to not being a **** and getting on with everyone, which is what the world could do with a bit more of.
Agreed, although it's perhaps worth pointing out that this doesn't imply that theism is a prerequisite for having a moral compass. I'm quite capable of being nice (usually) without fear of god's eternal wrath.
Personally, I'm more concerned with the leader of the country believing in superstitious fairy stories.
mixing religion and politics? What could possibly go wrong
[img] http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZxKAf8oOwtI/SL5k4ms1XPI/AAAAAAAAPyU/omJJjlC_pSE/s400/bell512.jp g" target="_blank">http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZxKAf8oOwtI/SL5k4ms1XPI/AAAAAAAAPyU/omJJjlC_pSE/s400/bell512.jp g"/> &sa=X&ei=dVl8T5XDJuam0QX56-jODQ&ved=0CA0Q8wc&usg=AFQjCNEgmIuU3-9EZ6yM8cijfy6BKpoUwQ[/img]
"The values of the Bible, the values of Christianity, are the values that we need."
What does the Bible say about granting the state unfettered access to the private internet usage of its citizens?
So he has time to talk on religion but still hasn't found the time to talk about illegal use of 10 Downing street and effectively people paying to get their agenda/interests up there. Right.
Christian values all boil down to not being a **** and getting on with everyone
Especially the gays 🙄
Personally I though they were just a knee jerk bunch of **** wits hell bent on imposing a 4000 year old moral code on us all whilst worshiping the invisible sky fairy who wants the spread of AIDS and a huge infant mortality rate interspersed with the odd holywar/crusade
TSY I am trying Really I am trying 😉
[i]"It is values like these that make our country what it is – a place which is tolerant, generous and caring."[/i]
Yes Dave. The three things that spring immediately to mind when I think of the Tory party
The three things that spring immediately to mind when I think of the Tory party
I suspect that there's plenty of religious values that are in line with the Tory party. Making up self-serving laws to allow you to do what the hell you want, for a start.
I'm more concerned with the leader of the country believing in superstitious fairy stories
Only problem is, you're assuming your 'belief' that it's a fairy story is correct ...
The three things that spring immediately to mind when I think of [s]the Tory party[/s] the General Synod
FTFY 🙂
AFAIK the most important commandments are Love thy neighbour and do unto others are you would have others do unto you. No caveats. All the other stuff can mostly be ignored I reckon. If everyone just to those rules the world would be a nicer place.
Whatnobeer - That's what I thought too. The previous ten can be replaced by those two or words to that effect. Trouble is everyone prefers the fire and brimstone stuff of Episode 1, and Jesus's mates did him no favours bigging him up after his (alledged) death!
[i]The New Testament tells us so much about the character of Jesus; a man of incomparable compassion, generosity, grace, humility and love. These are the values that Jesus embraced, and I believe these are values people of any faith, or no faith, can also share in, and admire.
"It is values like these that make our country what it is – a place which is tolerant, generous and caring. A nation which has an established faith, that together is most content when we are defined by what we are for, rather than defined by what we are against. In the book of Luke, we are told that Jesus said, 'Do to others as you would have them do to you' – advice that when followed makes for a happier, and better society for everyone."[/i]
I'm not sure why anyone would take offence at someone expressing those kind of thoughts.
The PM is a Christian and on an important Christian festival he has expressed his personal thoughts about how his faith has themes (like do unto others etc) that, if followed, would be to the benefit of everyone. Why is that so bad?
[i]Goddist should keep their views out of the state [/i]
Get a grip, it's not like he's announcing a law manadating that you have to go to church.
I'd like to live in a state where anyone can have any view they like, including the 'Goddists'.
Only problem is, you're assuming your 'belief' that it's a fairy story is correct ...
Difference is, I'm open to any evidence you might have to the contrary.
I think we should have laws against this sort of thing, Goddist should keep their views out of the state
Secularism doesn't mean that elected politicians can't talk nonsense about gods.
Bear in mind David Macaroon was speaking at an Easter reception. Easter being a Christian thing. Hence I don't think it's unreasonable for his speech to have a Christian emphasis.
AFAIK the most important commandments are Love thy neighbour and do unto others are you would have others do unto you. No caveats.
Yep. I think that's the kind of thing DC was getting at.
the most important commandments are
There's no such thing as a 'most important commandment'. Otherwise they wouldn't be commandments. You don't get to pick and choose, it's not Woolworth's sweet counter.
Personally I though they were just a knee jerk bunch of **** wits hell bent on imposing a 4000 year old moral code on us all whilst worshiping the invisible sky fairy who wants the spread of AIDS and a huge infant mortality rate interspersed with the odd holywar/crusade
Lets not limit this to christianity. They're not the only ones (or even the worst by quite a long way) spouting this type of dogshit.
Jews, Muslims; all doing plenty of damage.
Only problem is, you're assuming your 'belief' that it's a fairy story is correct ...
Difference is, I'm open to any evidence you might have to the contrary.
Nooooooo! We've tried that before somewhere on here, most recently the Angry atheists thread... turns out you can't prove or disprove God.
the most important commandments are Love thy neighbour
...well my neighbour is a rather sexy lady from Northern Ireland, so maybe I should pop round and try and spread the word of the Gospel 😉
I'm not sure why anyone would take offence at someone expressing those kind of thoughts.
Because it's hypocrisy perhaps ?
the most important commandments are
There's no such thing as a 'most important commandment'. Otherwise they wouldn't be commandments. You don't get to pick and choose, it's not Woolworth's sweet counter.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
According to Cameron :
[i]"The New Testament tells us so much about the character of Jesus; a man of incomparable compassion, generosity, grace, humility and love."[/i]
So definitely not a Tory then.
Modern day Christianity doesn't have potentially insulting terms for people of other religions; [i]Kuffar[/i] or [i]infidels[/i] does it?
Only problem is, you're assuming your 'belief' that it's a fairy story is correct ...
Difference is, I'm open to any evidence you might have to the contrary.
likewise, open to any evidence that there isn't 🙂
never ending circle that one.
live and let live.
Hora - I think they followed the Gay example, instead of reclaiming "Queer" they reclaimed "Gentiles". I could be wrong though....
It doesn't specifically mention gayers either. Doesn't mean you can't denounce them as evil
[i]Because it's hypocrisy perhaps ?[/i]
Maybe.
Who should be saying it then? If one has to have lived a life where one has always 'done unto others as you would have them do unto you' in order to suggest that it might be a sensible way for society to get along, then I'm not sure they'll be anyone qualified. Whichis a shame, because it's a fairly reasonable suggestion.
Nooooooo! We've tried that before somewhere on here, most recently the Angry atheists thread... turns out you can't prove or disprove God.
Nor can you prove/disprove the existence of 5 headed invisible unicorns.
"There's no such thing as a 'most important commandment'. Otherwise they wouldn't be commandments. You don't get to pick and choose, it's not Woolworth's sweet counter."
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
I think your getting confused between christianity and judasim.
There is actually quite a bit of
Its the spirit of the law not the letter of the Law that is important in Christianity.
Admittedly this was completely forgotten during the middle ages.
Yes hora it does. Have you not heard the term nonbelievers ? Modern day Christians apply it when talking about people who aren't Christian.
hahahahaha and then you get a fundamentalist saying you, [b]you[/b] whatnobeer are denigrating the one true way and you should be put to the death same as all the infidels/non-believers/fixieridersAll the other stuff can mostly be ignored I reckon
pretty much all religious texts can be taken any way you want and for eg. can be used by both sides of a bloody conflict as proof that each side has their chosen deity's backing.
cobblers
done unto others as you would have them do unto you
Are we back onto sodomy again?
turns out you can't prove or disprove God.
No, that's disingenuous. You could prove it quite easily if there was any proof to be had. It's absolute disproof that isn't possible.
For example. If I found a mouse in my house, I could prove I had mice. Or if I found mouse droppings, that would make me think I might have mice.
In the absence of those things, it's a fairly safe bet that I don't have mice. I have no reason to suspect that I might have mice, and an unshakable faith that I did, in fact, have mice despite having no evidence to back that up, would be somewhere between illogical and paranoid. Yet, I cannot prove that I don't have mice.
likewise, open to any evidence that there isn't
never ending circle that one.
No, it isn't. See above.
I found a dead mouse in bucket of water in my garage at the weekend.
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[i]Are we back onto sodomy again? [/i]
You're only gay if you back onto it
I found a dead mouse in bucket of water in my garage at the weekend.
Maybe it thought it was jesus and found out the hard way that it wasn't?
Its the spirit of the law not the letter of the Law that is important in Christianity.
This week.
Matthew 19:24
Jesus- "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Somebody better tell the torries, their economic policy is against the word of god!
Its the spirit of the law not the letter of the Law that is important in Christianity.
This week.complaining Christianity is too inflexible, now complain Christianity is too flexible.
i found a dead mouse in a bucket in the garden the other day.
mice are everywhere!
No, that's disingenuous. You could prove it quite easily if there was any proof to be had. Absolute disproof isn't possible.For example. If I found a mouse in my house, I could prove I had mice. Or if I found mouse droppings, that would make me think I might have mice.
In the absence of those things, it's a fairly safe bet that I don't have mice. I have no reason to suspect that I might have mice, and an unshakable faith that I did, in fact, have mice despite having no evidence to back that up, would be somewhere between illogical and paranoid. Yet, I cannot prove that I don't have mice.
Excellent. This thread has already progressed onto whether there is a God or not. I predict countless pages of pointless pontification.
I don't really want to think too much about what rich boys in parliament are entering.
I found a dead mouse in bucket of water in my garage at the weekend.
Are you suggesting the mice were performing baptism's when something went horribly wrong?
powerful enough blender and I reckon you could manage that.Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
complaining Christianity is too inflexible, now complain Christianity is too flexible.
I was complaining that it was inconsistent. Thanks for backing me up. (-:
Excellent. This thread has already progressed onto whether there is a God or not. I predict countless pages of pointless pontification.
Of course it has, it's a religion thread on STW. Anyone forcing you to read it?
(Pontification, very good!)
all you heathens sicken me
i shall be attacking all my chocolate easter eggs in proper devout fashion-i hope i find the one with the baby jesus inside!
There is no Dog.
powerful enough blender and I reckon you could manage that.
Or sufficient curry powder.
i dont believe in the torys
I found a dead mouse in bucket of water in my garage at the weekend.
Are you suggesting the mice were performing baptism's when something went horribly wrong?
its worse than that- it was the mouse inquisition, they were dunking a witch mouse
[img] http://joshobannion27.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/jesus-thumbs-up.jp g" target="_blank">http://joshobannion27.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/jesus-thumbs-up.jp g"/> ?w=390&h=390&sa=X&ei=VGJ8T4-BIYrW0QXD5sHXDQ&ved=0CA0Q8wc&usg=AFQjCNFJ37NK9-rDaX853Xfzv1ICw3PlBQ[/img]
don't know about the mice. im pretty sure a cat visits my garden. the dog can smell it, i can't, but im pretty sure it has visited.
So he has time to talk on religion but still hasn't found the time to talk about illegal use of 10 Downing street and effectively people paying to get their agenda/interests up there. Right.
perhaps god got his wedge out and slapped it on the table ?
pretty much all religious texts can be taken any way you want and for eg. can be used by both sides of a bloody conflict as proof that each side has their chosen deity's backing.
True, but even if you took religion out of it these things would still happen there'd just be a different excuse. Fundamentalists can say whatever they like to me, sometimes I'll debate with, sometimes not, but they're not changing my mind.
Ah yes maybe it was a private meet/lobby to get his message up on and out there by buying Cameron to speak for him.
I think you'll find that Eastre pre-dates Christianity by quite a bitjoao3v16 - Member
Bear in mind David Macaroon was speaking at an Easter reception. Easter being a Christian thing.
Only problem is, you're assuming your 'belief' that it's a fairy story is correct ...
Difference is, I'm open to any evidence you might have to the contrary.
Nooooooo! We've tried that before somewhere on here, most recently the Angry atheists thread... turns out [b]you can't prove or disprove God.[/b]
What drivel - the whole thing (bible) is fictional tosh - or at best a contradoctory, handed down, biased set of ramblings written a few hundred years after the "facts".
OK - proving / disproving god - difficult. Proving a negative always is, so lets assume there is a tinsy, tinsy possibility that god = True.
However, irrespective of that metaphysical line of equiry turns out, the rest of it is fairy tale...
Where shall we start...
Scribe 1
Ahh yes, I "remember" it well, 'twas in the late summer of my great, great, great, great, great grandfather's years in Judea, A.D. 33, Saturday afternoon, about tea time....
Scribe 2
Ohh what happened???
Scribe 1
Well, these Romans, see, they got fed up with this bloke spouting on about having a second coming - so they nailed him to a bit of wood and hung him out to die. @cept he didn't die - was seen down town 3 days later, had a big nosh up with his mates and then shot off up into the sky in a big flash
Scribe 2
Wow - fab story, write it down. our kids might forget it if it's passed down word of mouth like it has been for the last 400 years. I reckon that'll be the next bestseller....
Of course it's all true
perhaps god got his wedge out and slapped it on the table
so he did decide to
in private as well asdo God
in public
oh yeah no doubt about it. What you believe is probably very different to what every other Christian believes. Religion can be all things to all men. So it's a bit dodgy you saying which are the most important bits of your religion.True, but even if you took religion out of it these things would still happen
And why I have a deep mistrust of any religious spokes person who purports to speak for his/her people/congregation.
you see thats why i dont like macaroon, he invites god to No. 10
obama gets uhura round
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If he starts all this religion stuff in parliament he'll have George Galloway opposing him, dressed in a burka
After dedicating his election victory to Allah, I'm assuming he's muslim. George wouldn't do shameless opportunism as he's a man of principle
By all means be nice to people as far as practical -I try to be.
Don't however do it because of the contents of a book of contradictory, many times interpreted, ancient text centred around the threat of eternal damnation.
How many other 2000+ year old manuals would you refer to for guidance?
Anyone forcing you to read it?
Well I thought it would be rude not to, since I posted on thread before it moved onto whether there is a God or not.
But a good point anyway Cougar.
I have arrived at the conclusion that CallMeDave is a vapid fekwit who is making stuff up as he goes along and even then, doesn't know what he's talking about.
I think the correct summary of Cameron is "Jesus wept"
As a PR man he is whatever he thinks his audience want him to be. Curry a bit of favour with god botherers? why not
[b]Slimey PR Muppet in Telling People What They Want to Hear Shocka[/b]
[b]TJ describes Cameron as PR man shocker[/b]
But we are all individuals
[img] http://www.communitycare.co.uk/blogs/social-work-blog/2011/01/26/Life-of-Brian-for-Kirsty-blog.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.communitycare.co.uk/blogs/social-work-blog/2011/01/26/Life-of-Brian-for-Kirsty-blog.jp g"/> &sa=X&ei=mmx8T8qbBYOp0QWuvvWrDQ&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNHWuKPx8gRuAoAPwStBFbhVv8jHhA[/img]
[b]people picking on TJ...again, shocker[/b]
I can't even believe he quoted the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - the cheek of him.
I hope he remembers this if one day he loses all his millions, becomes destitute, sick or disabled, and he has to live under the rules his own government made, go through the humiliation of an Atos assessment, experience the ineptitude of a Jobcentre, or stack shelves for free in a supermarket.
It's not likely to happen of course, but I'd love for this guy to experience what it's like not to be rich and privileged and have to muddle along with everyone else, and then he might understand that quote he is chucking around to try and make himself look good.
Being a Christian is more than just going to church or paying nonsense lip service to Bible quotes it's about living your values, Jesus valued everyone no matter whether they were rich or poor, Cameron doesn't give a monkeys about anyone who isn't in his millionaires club.
Camels and eyes of needles anyone?
*Gets off soapbox for the day.
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