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KFC puts out an ad encouraging skinny people to step up and prevent fat people making choices that make them fatter. If skinny people don’t take responsibility for their fat conterparts then all those kids watching them will grow up fat as well. After all obesity is a national crisis and causing problems with society, about time this message got put out there.
Have you got a better analogy? Cos that one is epically crap.
has jordan peterson commented on this yet?
do lobsters shave?
Gillettes advert will backfire like #metoo did.
From your link:
Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.”
seems reasonable and pretty much what Gilette are suggesting.
has jordan peterson commented on this yet?
What happened to his STW envoy?
Gillettes advert will backfire like #metoo did.
From your link:
Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.”
seems reasonable and pretty much what Gilette are suggesting.
One guy, who's example has been used by Bloomberg to maybe try and swing the opinions of it's wallstreet readers.
So the link isn't evidence that #metoo has failed then? It's just Bloomberg manipulating men on Wall St to behave like decent people?
The article recognizes an issue and then offers a solution.
I didn't say #metoo had failed either, I said it had unintended consequences. I would wager that this advert will be very good at turning a lot of men off to it's core message, so in that respect - I think it will actually fail.
Not talking about male privelege and toxic male actions hasn't been a resounding success has it? And saying 'We need to talk. But not like this! And not like that!' is the equivalent of 'we can't talk about gun control straight after a mass shooting' - it's just kicking any meaningful discussion down the pitch and hoping it can be avoided for a while longer.
Frankly, anyone who's take away from 'be nice to people' is 'How dare you!' isn't going to 'get' any message but at least we know who some of them are now.
I think for tone was well off wwaswas - there have been a few feminist writers who have mentioned the same. Just because it meant well, doesn't mean that it's actually contributing anything useful.
It's not "some" - the backlash to gillettes advert looks to be pretty huge....
the backlash to gillettes advert looks to be pretty huge
The 'not all men' outrage train on social media is making a lot of noise, certainly.
the backlash to gillettes advert looks to be pretty huge
The ‘not all men’ outrage train on social media is making a lot of noise, certainly.
I think you need to allow headroom for discussion within circles who's views are generally aligned with your own, without brandishing anyone who questions or criticizes the advert as being part of the "not all men" alt-right train.
As someone who works in the advertising industry, I've got mixed feelings here.
While (what I think are) the core ideas of “be a good example to the boys who look up to you” and “do your bit to make a better world” are good (and certainly something I agree with as a man, a husband and a dad to both a son and a daughter), the execution is terrible. It homogenises men into a “group” which only further creates a divide (“men are responsible for the problems” “it’s all your fault” “typical male behaviours like boys playfighting are bad”) and makes it easy for fresh prejudices to form. Not only that, because of the tone, it’s likely to miss the mark completely with people who maybe *should* be influenced by it. It’s also delivered in a way that seems to be feeding the “if you object to this, or comment other than praise, you’re part of the problem” (yes, I saw this from someone this morning – not some random internet angry commenter, but a normally sensible female ad industry exec who’s work I normally admire), stifling sensible debate.
So yes, good message at heart, terrible delivery that is likely to only create further division, angst and fuel the fire both sides rather than stimulate sensible discussion and behavioural/attitude change.
We’ve seen a few things like this (Pepsi was another shocking fail) where brands try to preach a “right on” message to try and make themselves more desirable and ultimately miss the mark.
Clearly, the beating of a kid by a gang is wrong – but again, did we really need an advert to tell us that anyway? All male adults would intervene if they saw that.
Do you reckon? Based on my experience of people who just walked past a guy harrassing a girl in a street a couple of years back; of the people who allow 'low level' anti-social behaviour on eg: streets or public transport to go unchallenged; of the people who allow abusive / racist / offensive language to continue unchecked - I suspect everyone knows it's wrong but the proportion who actually are prepared to try to intervene is a long way short of 'all'.
Isn't that the point. Seeing it, tutting inwardly and walking on does none of us any favours. As 'society' we need to be the change we want to happen, and that starts with individual actions.
It is scary. They might lump you instead, they might have knives. Equally when i challenged racist behaviour, quickly several others who up till then knew it was wrong but hadn't put their hand up added their support. We can't change it by ourselves but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be the snowflake that grows into the snowball that grows into an avalanche.
do Gillette still mail razors to teens like the did to me back in the day? and if they do do they mail shot girls and boys? Always thought their product was good FWIW, but stopped shaving in my early 20's as i prefer that look and coincidentally look like a pea when clean shaven.
You're talking about bystander effect, which is not just a male problem.
However, another point I'd like to make - given that women are allowed to exert control over their own bodies without being shamed into complying to the demands of men. Why is it okay to shame men into using their bodies to intervene and potentially expose themselves to the risk of violence?
You’re talking about bystander effect, which is not just a male problem.
True; and I wouldn't complain about a campaign targeted at women suggesting they intervened against bad behaviour either but I wouldn't suggest that an advert for men's razors with a well known men's razors tagline as the basis for it would be the right vehicle.
given that women are allowed to exert control over their own bodies without being shamed into complying to the demands of men. Why is it okay to shame men into using their bodies to intervene and potentially expose themselves to the risk of violence?
Good question. Only differentiation I'd make are the types of demands that are being requested. I don't think men should be objectified either and equally if two small kids were fighting at a family barbecue I wouldn't expect my wife to stand by waiting for a man for intervene. And plenty of women would also intervene in a bigger / more 'dangerous' dispute and in fact may be safer in doing so than a man in an equivalent situation.
It’s an American ad too. They have bigger problems with chauvinism than we do, generally.
Trump will soon get that sorted out.
Good question. Only differentiation I’d make are the types of demands that are being requested. I don’t think men should be objectified either and equally if two small kids were fighting at a family barbecue I wouldn’t expect my wife to stand by waiting for a man for intervene. And plenty of women would also intervene in a bigger / more ‘dangerous’ dispute and in fact may be safer in doing so than a man in an equivalent situation.
The answer is you can't do anything for anyone else, insulate yourself and look out for number 1. You might get stabbed or blamed for trying to do the right thing (intervening and using force), you'll get blamed for standing by and doing the wrong thing. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/fashion-ceo-attacked-on-tube-condemns-male-passengers-who-walked-away-and-failed-to-defend-her-a3856306.html but at least your not dead or grovelling to magistrates for using needlessly disproportionate force.
Besides, using the threat of or actual force to deal with bullies, harassers and rapists is soooooo unwoke. What they need is a pat on the head, a shrink to ask them about their feelings and a patronising tv advert that will piss off the normal blokes and do nothing to stop the others.
She should have gave the two men a white feather each to wear on their coat.
The answer is you can’t do anything for anyone else, insulate yourself and look out for number 1. You might get stabbed or blamed for trying to do the right thing (intervening and using force), you’ll get blamed for standing by and doing the wrong thing.
I’ve stepped in a few times to help others over the years. Probably confirmation bias, but it’s ended badly more times than not. Man beating woman, I got a shoe to the head from the woman. Stopped two drunks fleeing the scene after a crash, treated like shit by the police. Stood up to racist bullies at school, ended up in detention with them. List goes on and I think I’d be more inclined to walk on by now as a result.
If that Gilette advert was being honest, the fella who stops the bullies would either end up stabbed, shot or on a register 😀
She should have gave the two men a white feather each to wear on their coat.
Closer to the mark than you think, I believe that part of the reason for the white feather campaign is that the feminists who took part in it were racists who thought Germans were going to come over here and bum them. The white feather was there to shame the men into protecting their honour/chastity etc.
The answer is you can’t do anything for anyone else, insulate yourself and look out for number 1. You might get stabbed or blamed for trying to do the right thing (intervening and using force), you’ll get blamed for standing by and doing the wrong thing.
What an absolute load of bullshit.
What an absolute load of bullshit.
When's the last time you intervened in a domestic in a non-middle class inner city area Drac?
The only people who should be shamed and forced into intervening are people who are paid to do it, eg the police. (as an aside, you're a paramedic aren't you drac - I'm fairly certain then that your level of risk aversion is different to others - due to training and experience).
But no one can be bothered paying higher taxes to get more of them on the beat.....
Hmm, quite a few people oblivious to rule 1 on this thread.
If you can get so het up about a razor advert, perhaps the issues lie not with the ad, but with you?
As they say, 'if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem'...
It’s a shite ad though as pointed out above by somebody who works in advertising. I don’t think anybody is getting all het up either. Just discussing the ad and having a good old debate.
On a side note is anybody else getting lots of Harry’s razor adverts? What are they doing to help the clean shaven be better men?
When’s the last time you intervened in a domestic in a non-middle class inner city area Drac?
It's been a lot of years outside of work thankfully.
. I don’t think anybody is getting all het up either. Just discussing the ad and having a good old debate.
You didn't read the you tube comments then 🙂 it's the end of the western world
It’s a shite ad though as pointed out above by somebody who works in advertising. I don’t think anybody is getting all het up either. Just discussing the ad and having a good old debate.
On a side note is anybody else getting lots of Harry’s razor adverts? What are they doing to help the clean shaven be better men?
This.
There are few people on here that disagree with the fact that collectively, men need their heads examined. It's just I think there are better ways to achieve it - why not get boys to read James Jones at school?
There're so many young guys, you know — young Americans and, yes, young men everywhere — a whole generation of people younger than me who have grown up feeling inadequate as men because they haven't been able to fight in a war and find out whether they are brave or not. Because it is in an effort to prove this bravery that we fight — in wars or in bars — whereas if a man were truly brave he wouldn't have to be always proving it to himself. So therefore I am forced to consider bravery suspect, and ridiculous, and dangerous. Because if there are enough young men like that who feel strongly enough about it, they can almost bring on a war, even when none of them want it, and are in fact struggling against having one. (And as far as modern war is concerned I am a pacifist. Hell, it isn't even war anymore, as far as that goes. It's an industry, a big business complex.) And it's a ridiculous thing because this bravery myth is something those young men should be able to laugh at. Of course the older men like me, their big brothers, and uncles, and maybe even their fathers, we don't help them any. Even those of us who don't openly brag. Because all the time we are talking about how scared we were in the war, we are implying tacitly that we were brave enough to stay. Whereas in actual fact we stayed because we were afraid of being laughed at, or thrown in jail, or shot, as far as that goes.
I have no problem with the ad apart from one thing.
All its morality is thrown out of the window when you remember it's really just about selling selling you razors.
Absolutely, positively nothing more.
Laudable message. Destroyed.
Just watched this load of old tosh and wonder why they felt the need to preach. It's not clever and, actually, pretty insulting to the male species imo.
pretty insulting to the male species imo
Can't say felt insulted by saying we should teach our kids the rights and wrongs from an early age.
pretty insulting to the male species imo
Yep not insulted here either.
Can’t say felt insulted by saying we should teach our kids the rights and wrongs from an early age.
But unless you're a sociopath or of very low IQ, almost all parents do this.
This isn't something we need an advert for, besides - I suspect it was trying to dig deeper than just tell us what is right and wrong.
But unless you’re a sociopath or of very low IQ, almost all parents do this.
Trust me it's far from almost all, sociopaths or those with a low IQ.
But unless you’re a sociopath or of very low IQ, almost all parents do this.
Exactly!
Trust me it’s far from almost all, sociopaths or those with a low IQ.
I don't agree - most kids grow up with a sense of right and wrong being instilled into them. It's just that teenage brains are not very good at actually recognising it. That's coming from someone who's parent is a teacher at an EBD, those kids who grow up with poor socialization are still a minority.
If it was about that, then the Gillette Venus adverts would be tackling bullying amongst female peers at school.
Yep you see kids been taught to hate, to take on their parents or religions prejudices against people that have done nothing to them. Kids been shown how to be racist at sports events or confirm to historic segregation. That is not linked to being sociopaths or of low iq just in the wrong place.
Hmm, quite a few people oblivious to rule 1 on this thread.
If you can get so het up about a razor advert, perhaps the issues lie not with the ad, but with you?
I thought this thread would attract the forum's more troubled individuals and enthusiastic arguers. I was not disappointed.
So I may as well have my two cents, eh?
The advert is basically pinkwashing - a heavy-handed, patronising sermon from a mildly toxic brand (probably led by an ad agency using it as awards bait).
I might agree with the underlying thesis, but the delivery makes my toes curl.
Yep you see kids been taught to hate, to take on their parents or religions prejudices against people that have done nothing to them.
That is an issue that goes well beyond the "don't be a dick or a rapist" scope of the Gillette advert though and it's not just confined to men.
That is an issue that goes well beyond the “don’t be a dick” scope of the Gillette advert though and it’s not just confined to men.
Luckily no one has claimed that it doesn't.
So how many of you have been to a bbq, where your kids have fought and you've just replied "boys will be boys" - or set up a kids fight club and placed bets on it?
https://nypost.com/2015/09/01/day-care-workers-had-young-kids-brawl-in-fight-club-videos/
😀
Only the sociopaths and those with a low IQ.
So if I start using Gillette razors, will my kids start listening to me when I tell them "that's not how we treat each other" as they engage in WWF for bragging rights on the green toy bin lorry…? I knew there was something I was doing wrong 😜
Agree with the message, but the delivery stinks - and I fear that most of those who could learn something from the ad are not on this forum, but are sadly those making comments on YouTube.
and I fear that most of those who could learn something from the ad are not on this forum, but are sadly those making comments on YouTube.
One of the things the internet has given us is the ability to see who those people are, apart from Piers Morgan we did know about him all the time.
Agree with the message, but the delivery stinks – and I fear that most of those who could learn something from the ad are not on this forum, but are sadly those making comments on YouTube.
I'm not so sure knowing some of the posting history of some members on here.
It's just the current agenda easy target , the western male. I see they put a few ethnics in the video to keep the video legal. White western males aren't allowed to be oppressed or have any say or opinion. Surprised they have gone after what I would assume to be there largest consumer demographic. Virtue signalling liberal feminist bull crap advertising.
You didn’t read the you tube comments then 🙂 it’s the end of the western world
Sweet Jesus! How long have you been using the internet? You don’t read YouTube comments is covered in basic training. YouTube comments is where the written word goes to die.
It’s just the current agenda easy target , the western male.
Aside from it isnt is it? They are trying to sell to the "western male". So they must think that this take on it will actually have more of them agreeing with them and hence being more likely to buy their stuff rather than filming themselves burning/chopping or however you would destroy a razor (disclaimer. Cant say it bothers me either way. Whilst I do have their razors my standard technique is to random shave it back with my hair trimmer on zero and occasionally shave properly and so stick with them out of laziness. I cant see that changing).
Virtue signalling liberal feminist bull crap advertising.
lol bit late to the party there. Thread title must have been a bit too subtle
Surely you mean stuble ?
No not really, unless you are suggesting your post is just a bad joke?
Like the advert, don’t normally buy their razors but I think I will give them a try. I guess that’s the purpose of advertising so it’s worked on me 🙂
Quite glad they are moving away from the posturing hero (white) male stereotypes. Message is something I'd hope people would aspire to, even if it's a bit heavy handed in delivery.
As ever, it's the overreaction that is more worrying than the original advert. For anyone with an ounce of self awareness of understanding of the world.
It’s just the current agenda easy target , the western male.
No, the target is macho dickheads, isn't it really obvious?
White western males aren’t allowed to be oppressed or have any say or opinion.
What the actual **** are you talking about? Take a look around you, the world is still mostly run by white western males, and they are mostly the ones giving opinions. Seriously, this is utterly ludicrous. The ad is telling men not to be arseholes - how can you seriously have a problem with that?
Actually, I know how. You don't see the problem, so you don't believe there is one. And when you're told about the problem, you dismiss it. So you are behaving like the arseholes in the advert.
The ad is telling men not to be arseholes – how can you seriously have a problem with that?
I think it’s saying you’ll end up being an arsehole unless you shave with the new 5 BLADE, ALOE VERA INFUSED GILETTE AWESOME-O 5,000 series! 😉
Exactly funkmaster.
& I don't even own a barbecue.
I am sick and tired of sniveling little arseholes pretending they represent men. Really if you find this advert objectionable you are pathetic, an embarrassment to men, why don't you grow a pair and try being what you claim to represent you worthless cry babies.
Haha, that sounds an awful lot like a sniveling little arsehole pretending to represent men.
awww poor ickle rene59, wants to play the victim and doesn't like being called out for it, boohoo. Can't get it through you head that many groups in society have actually worse life experinces, so keeps on bleating when there is a message of equalization.
Really I am sick of pandering to these vile alt-right views, time to start opposing them head on.
Is the whole ad not just common sense? Why the outrage? Sad that there's a need for an ad like this at all really.
Sad that there’s a need for an ad like this at all really.
I agree and unfortunately a number of posters on here reinforce that need.
I like the ad and the message it sends. Fail to see how anyone could get upset by it unless they see something in it that they recognise...
You know what, it feels a bit ‘right on’ and a tiny bit lecturey but I really relate to the actual message. This was evidently a risky advertising line to go down, so fair play to Gillette for giving it a go. It’s highly likely that people feeling uncomfortable with it are having their unconscious biases prodded a bit. It certainly made me sense mine.
Really I am sick of pandering to these vile alt-right views, time to start opposing them head on.
Alt-right, really? Haha not unless alt-right is anything right of far left authoritarian. I'm firmly and comfortably in the left libertarian political quadrant.
Are we not allowed to just think it’s, you know, a bit of a shit cheeses festival advert? I’m finding those that are outraged anusing and also those that are defending it too. It’s an advert for overpriced razors, that’s it.
Gillette don’t care how you view men in society. They care about selling product and maximising margins. This is what they came up with in order to gain attention and sell more than their competitors. Looks like it’s working so job jobbed.
My personal view is that I agree with the sentiment but the delivery is too ‘Mercian for me. I’d have preferred humour rather than nodding, smiling models from a catalogue with an overly sentimental voice over. Guess that makes me an alt-right, racist, woman hating bastard then 🙄
My personal view is that I agree with the sentiment but the delivery is too ‘Mercian for me. I’d have preferred humour rather than nodding, smiling models from a catalogue with an overly sentimental voice over. Guess that makes me an alt-right, racist, woman hating bastard then
Or you spotted it's for an American audience
You know that SEAT advert which essentially says. “Look at us we support nice cuddly right on progressive ideas, not nasty old reactionary ones, so buy our car” That is what this is: an attempt to market razors by using sanctimony. It obviously appeals to the sanctimonious amongst us.
It’s an advert for overpriced razors, that’s it.
I'm not sure it is.... it doesn't mention them apart from a small logo and the similarity in taglines / bit at the start.
Was Colin K suggesting we support the 49ers when he took a knee, or using his position to push something he believed in?
I'm not naive enough to not spot that some may think Gillette are a good firm and they will benefit from this as well, but should they not be speaking up about what they believe in because of that?
The advert is "needed" to give Gillette a larger share of the disposable razor market by associating their product with a modern and laudable message.
The larger share the market will probably be at the expense of some of their competitors.
So Gillette is really just exhibiting the old Alpha male drive to be number one, and damn everybody else.
Quite funny really.
Errr. You do understand how advertising works?
(I'm also alarmed that you think I'm anusing someone over this - even without knowing what anusing is 😉 )
they put a few ethnics in the video
maybe they should have been a bit more overt with the 'don't be a racist' message?
Bloody tiny iPhone keyboards 🤣
I’m not sure it is…. it doesn’t mention them apart from a small logo and the similarity in taglines / bit at the start.
Where are the bearded men in the advert then? You can’t walk three metres without tripping over a man with a beard around here. 99% of the men in the ad have shiny face and there’s footage of that weird chin stroking thing that no normal person actually does.
If you think a corporation cares then that’s up to you, but colour me cynical.
Where are the bearded men in the advert then?
Opening shot
Boardroom
Barbecue (several)
Audience (three out of eight of the identifiable males - without obscured faces, I mean - including one which is huge and ginger FFS!)
Guy intervening at the pool party
Perv outside the coffee shop
Peacemaker from the real footage shot
Cool...So Blokes need life lessons from a Razor Company. Nah I'll pass
Some do, clearly. Irrespective of who's doing the teaching. If they didn't we wouldn't need the Me-Too, the frequent refrains on here to read rule 1 and so on.
And the lesson isn't just don't be a dick, it's also that if you see someone being a dick, do something about it. standing by and letting dicks be dicks also makes you a bit of a dick too.
Where are the bearded men in the advert then?
Opening shot
Boardroom
Barbecue (several)
Audience (three out of eight of the identifiable males – without obscured faces, I mean – including one which is huge and ginger FFS!)
Guy intervening at the pool party
Perv outside the coffee shop
Peacemaker from the real footage shot
I think our definitions of beard are very different. A weeks worth of stubble isn’t a beard. If you can’t hide things in it it doesn’t count.
on the basis that if I never shaved again, it would look like 3 day growth to you big boys, I'm happy with anything visible to the naked eye 😉