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Anyone ever successfully negotiated their own settlement from National Grid or similar?
I'd rather not use one of those ambulance-chasey type firms who then take a massive percentage for themselves.
How hard can it be?
I've a wooden pole on my drive at the front, and an overhead cable passing over my garage and running the length of my back garden.
I thought it was just a standard settlement. From what I remember it was about £15 yearly per pole!
Has a wayleave already been made by any previous owner?
If so you may not be able to get anywhere.
We have a wayleave for BT set up in the 1970’s by the previous owners x3 which was a one off payment and when I asked if it could be changed was told it was in perpetuity so tough. ( the language was more legalese but that was the nub of it)
I’d just contact national grid (if you’re in the south a big chunk used to be western power distribution before the takeover / merger) - this is standard for them. They pay out to hundreds of thousands of landowners for this sort of thing.
Don’t get too excited though - they aren’t big amounts of money. Might be £10 a quarter or something along those lines.
Certainly not going to get a no win no fee solicitor to go after them!
Yes, I wondered if the previous owner might have already negotiated something - it is quite a feature! Nothing mentioned in all the paperwork when we bought the house, though.
My main issue is that if I wanted to add a two-storey extension to the side of the house like my neighbour has, I couldn't.
My main issue is that if I wanted to add a two-storey extension to the side of the house like my neighbour has, I couldn’t.
That would have been apparent when you bought the house though and reflected in the price you paid - as it would have been for them and their house. If both houses had been on the market at the same time the one with the potential to extend would have sold for more than the one without.
You can probably give notice of termination if you really need to extend the house..
https://www.gosschalks.co.uk/blog/2022/05/01/wayleave-qanda-with-matthew-fletcher
We have a wayleave for BT set up in the 1970’s by the previous owners x3 which was a one off payment and when I asked if it could be changed was told it was in perpetuity so tough. ( the language was more legalese but that was the nub of it)
Worth getting a copy of the wayleave and reading it. I've an old (condemned) pole in my garden and was told I'd have to pay compensation for the end of the wayleave if I asked for it to be removed. Got a copy of the wayleave and it says no such thing. It should also never have been granted as it post-dates our area becoming a Conservation Area. Currently in the debate phase of "where's the reference to either existence or value of compensation liability" which keeps going unanswered.
My parents had a power line removed from a gable end of their outbuildings they converted. They were generally pretty happy to bury it instead. In fact I think they might not even have charged because the previous installed bracket was sketchy as anything (temporary fix after the lower version had a run in with a loging lorry about 30 years ago.)
Minor complication was the dick head moaning cow next door who refused a buried cable to her house so... The cable comes up the road on a pole, drops below ground at one end of the property pops up onto a new pole at the other side, travels no more than 3m to another pole in the neighbours garden before connecting to the house. So she now has two poles to look at.
Maccruisken has it though. Not their issue if you want to build something that was obviously not possible when you bought it. Thats for you to pay them to do something about it
If there is no existing wayleave (ask them to provide it) then you can demand that they remove/change the apparatus if it also supplies a third party. If they bury it on your land, then you can get a wayleave for that.
If you request a wayleave, if its the same as telecoms, you'll get a lump sum or small amount per year for the pole (more if there is a stay) but the overhead wires might be covered by flying wires act (i.e they can span over your property without your permission as long as they don't get too close to the building, and they can get them up without entering your garden). If its only for you, or a tenant on your land, you get nothing.
Also they may cover your reasonable legal costs, apparatus is probably a fixed fee and non-negotiable. Not sure if they will backdate.
We entered into a new wayleave agreement ~5 years ago when we moved in, a chap from Western Power came out and counted up the poles (×2) and stays (x2), and came back with a figure just over £2k. From memory I think that any new agreement would terminate if we sold up and moved on, leaving the new owners to start a fresh wayleave?
As I understand it, it's for perpetuity. When you sell it would transfer to the new owner but they won't get any benefit.
I search for them at work at often find wayleaves that are over 100 years old, sometimes with quite intricate hand drawn pencil sketches of the layout/building facades!
There is a good chance I've recalled the details incorrectly 🙂 the actual wayleave agreement was all done on paper copies so can't check it from here, but the emails stated a 15yr fixed term? There's a long thread on the subject on moneysavingexpert, might be of use.
I did one about 7 or 8 years ago - the power company had a proper wayleave dept and it was a fixed amount. £500ish I recall for a single pole in the front driveway. I don't recall how long the agreement lasted but it definitely didn't terminate on sale - it might have been a one-off as the purchasers were trying to negotiate a proportion of the wayleave amount off the sale.
Actually, scrap that! Just found the email - this was with SSE in 2019 for a single wooden pole:
“the Term” means a term commencing on the date hereof and continuing for the duration of the Owner’s ownership of the Land
“the Wayleave Payment” means the initial compensation sum of Five Hundred and Seventy Two pounds (£572) in respect of the period of 15 years from the date hereof and thereafter the annual compensation sum payable on each anniversary of the Term being such annual compensation sum as shall be published by the Company from time to time
I get a cheque (!! Yes cheque) for a budget busting £3.86 every once in a while for cable that comes over my laaand. Was in place before we moved in 20+ years ago
As I understand it, it’s for perpetuity.
Nope, you can give notice of termination on them at any time.
Notice period will vary and if it's an uber important link they can apply to the Secretary of State to prevent you terminating it.
I’ve given up, every time I deal with openreach via email (about 6 times, we’ll they have passed it to paralaw now) they say its the electricity board (*who say it’s openreach), but every time a openreach van works on it ( a good 5 or 6 times now) the van teams always tell me it’s theirs.
If anybody can suggest a way of upsetting openreach (*but not the blokes in the vans) that would be handy.
I’ve given up, every time I deal with openreach via email (about 6 times, we’ll they have passed it to paralaw now) they say its the electricity board (*who say it’s openreach), but every time a openreach van works on it ( a good 5 or 6 times now) the van teams always tell me it’s theirs.
I'd just chop it down, they can't then complain as they've told you they don't own it...
Many utilities have for some time been attempting to renegotiate wayleaves into easements - a one off payment for permanent tenure. If that's the case it should be in the deeds and highlighted when you bought (unlike a wayleave which is a contract between current owner and utility, renegotiated on change of ownership). Be aware also, that following test cases, the 'impermanence' of a wayleave is a little illusorily in the case of 'essential services' and your right of eviction limited. Also, under the telecoms code (my area) and possibly also other overhead utilities there is a 'flying wires exemption' whereby if there is no infrastructure on your land you don't own the sky above beyond a certain height and have no control or payment entitlement. In your case you have a pole so probably doesn't apply. Note also that a wayleave and payment are not required if the infrastructure only serves you (ie doesn't pass through your land to someone else.
Footflaps
https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-projects/locating-our-network/national-notice-handling-centre-form
Pop a request in for the OR plant on your property, its free.
If it shows up as a OR pole the you have the evidence.
You can so the same with the power provider.
Power lines will have insulators at the pole and power warning signs.
OR engineers should not be climbing a power pole, without a right pile H&s in place.
If you get stuck give me a shout.
Paul.sal@btinternet.com
Openreach can access LV power poles where telecoms plant exists, basic risk assessment, insulated ladder and some simple checks.
You will see a lot of vans carrying a blue ladder specifically for this, no other reason as they are heavier and have a special profile on the stiles to make them extra painful to carry!
Pop a request in for the OR plant on your property, its free.
The link for or maps states: "The costs for maps start at £63.50. When this form is completed we will forward payment details to you by Email. On confirmation of payment we will complete the request and send to you within 10 working days. Please tick to confirm you agree."
Is there a way to get a free one if it's your own property?
We decided to (strongly) decline the attempt to pay us for a wayleave for the phone and power lines crossing our land. The tiny amount of money on offer didn't nearly cover the current ability to get them to re-route around us if we ever wanted them to. In the meantime, it's a handy stick to threaten them with when the phone line goes a little slack and starts tapping on our roof in the wind - as the route it takes totally ignores the minimum distance required from the building. We don't care though so long as it's not tapping!
"Anyone ever successfully negotiated their own settlement from National Grid or similar?"
Probably never.
The negotiations are usually at a national level, between the Energy Networks Association and various national organizations ( eg National Farmers Union etc) And not negotiated on an individual basis
".... current (pun?) ability to...."
Too late, if the cable is already there.
If anybody can suggest a way of upsetting openreach (*but not the blokes in the vans) that would be handy.
Your wayleave will be with a particular company which will be listed on the agreement. Write to them. Mine is with the old BT (Co Number 1800000) so I'm making it their problem to sort out.
The answer is it's frustratingly difficult, getting a response is the first issue then having a meaningful discussion where you feel you are making ground in your favour. I've have been involved with power and comms wayleaves for a long time - not with one of the wayleave firms like you say (they generally make their money from recovering their fees acting on your behalf - they don't take a cut of the wayleave payment for a pole, I let them deal with a pole on our land as I couldn't be bothered doing it for £60 payment)
It's really not like trying to get a better price on say phone contract, there are established valuation methods for these things and the rates they offer are generally no less or more than this. You may be able to squeeze a couple for £'s a year for the pole, but it certainly won't pay for much, like most of the responses above maybe not even a pint a year - if you know what you are doing you are likely to get changes to some of the terms of the wayleave than an uplift in payment - a break in your favour for instance should you need to move the pole in the future for a genuine reason.
The bottom line is that they have statutory powers, if you get too difficult they can start serving legal notices which can end up in court - it probably won't unless you're that bloody minded but you'll waste more time fighting a principle than you'll ever get back in money terms.