to be worn over a rab down jacket as a waterproof layer walking in the Peak/scotland/wales etc
http://www.sportsdirect.com/salomon-nebula-2-5-waterproof-jacket-mens-442365?colcode=44236508
bump
decent brand and prety cheap but it looks less than the best for walking. I'd want a longer jacket to cover my bum, a peaked hood (not sure if that one is) and I hate zips that don't have full storm flaps for walking jackets, even the 'waterproof zips' are leaky without storm flaps.
Look at what is available at Decathlon. I'd look for 3 layer over 2.5 as I always find 2.5 clammy, but maybe that's just me.
A waterproof over a down jacket would cook me in almost any weather, especially if active.
Budget of £120 now due to impending Bday - any ideas
Cotswold Outdoor have got a sale on.
I'd get something decent off ebay tbh. Something Proshell or maybe eVent.
I saw a North Face Point Five on there recently for your budget.
The North Face outlet in Ellesmere Port occasionally has some decent deals - got a goretex pro jacket in there for 120 a year back..
jimdubleyou - MemberCotswold Outdoor have got a sale on.
Just had a look, most of the good stuff still seems to be more expensive than everywhere else
I know it lacks STW Cool Points but anyone tried the Dare 2 B Vigilence? Specs look good and provided you can find it in your size and colour it's a great price for the claimed breathability/waterproofishness (though, I don't like the sound of "water resistant zips", water resistant ime means leaks like a sieve...).
I got one of their Composure winter jackets a while back and really happy with it, warm and very waterproof, but not sure about their other stuff?
You should be able to pick up a montane Minimus for about £120. I paid £119 for mine from an ebay shop.
What size are you after?
to be worn over a rab down jacket as a waterproof layer walking in the Peak/scotland/wales etc
Won't you get very hot and sweaty wearing a down jacket for active stuff under a cheap-ish waterproof shell? That's three layers of windproof (2) and waterproof (1) fabric between you and the nice, fresh air. I'd start with a more breathable mid-layer, a microfleece maybe. Or lightweight Polartec Alpha. If you run very cold or don't move at all then the down/waterproof combo might be okay, but I think most people would suffer.
I know it lacks STW Cool Points but anyone tried the Dare 2 B Vigilence? Specs look good and provided you can find it in your size and colour it's a great price for the claimed breathability/waterproofishness
Breathability rating 10,000/m2/24hrs isn't really very high and the mesh/taffeta lining is going to mean it's pretty heavy. I'm sure it'll fine for general wandering about town, going to the pub etc. It also seems to use US spelling for some reason, which is odd for a brand based in Trafford. I suspect it depends on your expectations to be honest.
Had a look on Sports Pursuit? I'm trying really hard not to buy a Berghaus Velum III in the new shakedry goretex active for a hundred quid that has been tempting me for a few weeks now...
Keela Saxon jacket is pretty good, for a fairly lightweight waterproof. Available for about £70.
Keela do very good made in the UK, high quality kit. They also sell direct, so value for money is excellent. We've a handful of their products, including a Saxon (as above), a very effective breathable lightweight waterproof.
Looking at the keela jackets 🙂
Membrane fabrics work by having moisture condense on the inside of the jacket where it soaks into the membrane and soaks back out of the other side. So there's a lot of dampness on the inside of the jacket, by design. I don't think a down jacket woul dlike this.
The point about fleece is that it's designed to push moisture through away from your body via body heat, to transport the sweat away. I don't think down will do this, so it's a recipe for dampness.
ignore the down jacket - thats just a consideration - thats not a deal breaker
Membrane fabrics work by having moisture condense on the inside of the jacket where it soaks into the membrane and soaks back out of the other side.
They really don't.
No? How do they work then?
They allow water vapour to pass through while blocking liquid water. Do you think your jacket would be very waterproof if liquid water just soaked through?
Performance is massively reduced if they wet out from condensation on the inside or rain on the outside.
I've been on two ski trips with this Saami jacket. Brilliant value I think:
[url= http://http://www.saamisnow.co.uk/product/kemi-mens-ski-jacket/ ]Saami Snow[/url]
They allow water vapour to pass through while blocking liquid water. Do you think your jacket would be very waterproof if liquid water just soaked through?
It only soaks through in one direction. The membrane has solid PU on one side of it which is hydrophillic, and the sweat soaks through to the other side which is protected from the rain by the porous bit. eVent does not have the PU solid membrane so the vapour can pass straight through. As I understand it early Goretex did this too but their membrane was too fragile so they had to bond it to a PU membrane.
[url= https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear-how-it-works.html ]This link explains it.[/url]
That's why Goretex performance depends on relative humidity and temperature on each side - it can transport much more moisture when it's very cold and dry on the outside, whereas eVent transports the same regardless.
It's also why when you use wash-in reproofer your jacket loses a lot of breathability for a time - the DWR coating gets on the inside of the jacket where it stops the condensation soaking into the inside, which stops it breathing. After a while it rubs off and it starts breathing again.
No? How do they work then?
It depends on the technology. Some PU coatings are basically hydrophilic so they do absorb liquid. Some waterproof technologies are gas permeable and allow molecules through in vapour form. Some are a bit of a mix.
The reason Gore-Tex started using a thin PU smear on the inside of its PTFE membrane was that contamination from body fluids, grease etc was causing reverse osmosis, where water moved inwards rather than outwards btw.
Gore-Tex - mostly - isn't gas permeable, but eVent is because the PU element of the membrane is applied differently. Apparently. What was the original Gore-Tex membrane is still pretty much out there, it's Windstopper, which is the PTFE without the PU protective layer.
The point about fleece is that it's designed to push moisture through away from your body via body heat, to transport the sweat away. I don't think down will do this, so it's a recipe for dampness.
Your other serious problem with down is that down proof fabric is very tightly woven, think Pertex, so you have two layers of completely windproof fabric either side of the down which is basically holding warmed air in suspension, so there's no active movement of anything much at all let alone moisture.
It's all fascinatingly dull 🙂
What was the original Gore-Tex membrane is still pretty much out there, it's Windstopper, which is the PTFE without the PU protective layer.
That's something I didn't know.
Why is it not labelled as waterproof then? Because of the possibility of reverse transport that you mention perhaps?
I'm a big berghaus fan although there are lots of other great brands too. Looking on berghaus website they have some sale/reduced items. Men's cornice jacket is half price (£110) in some sizes and colours... Medium grey any good?
http://www.berghaus.com/mens-long-cornice-jacket/421015.html
Why is it not labelled as waterproof then? Because of the possibility of reverse transport that you mention perhaps?
Because it's not durably waterproof in Gore-Tex terms, vis, it'll presumably have the same issues as the original GTX and because with a very few exceptions, Windstopper garments don't have taped seams, so eventually they leak there.
There are a few taped Windstopper shells out there, Black Diamond did one, and they're more breathable than the Gore-Tex equivalent, but not as reliably waterproof. If you want a really breathable fabric, Polartec Neoshell is the way to go btw.
Try this one decathlon
[url= https://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-400-mens-waterproof-jacket-black-id_8302503.html ]waterproof jacket with pit zips[/url]
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Neoshell is silly breathable, makes everything else feel like boil in the bag
Apparently Neoshell degrades and loses its water resistance over time.
Apparently Neoshell degrades and loses its water resistance over time.
Don't most membrane waterproofs?
Neoshell especially apparently. I was surprised when I read about it too.
Apparently Neoshell degrades and loses its water resistance over time
How much time?
Bought this from sports pursuit for £95 🙂
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/933786
Just arrived and it looks amazing!
