[Closed] Waterproof and Breathable

Waterproof and breathable - yep.
Waterproof and [i]breathable enough to be useful when doing exercise[/i] - not so much.

Breathable is different for all fabrics/membranes.
The basics are (simplified somewhat) you need a difference in humidty and temperature across the fabric/membrane, that allows water to pass through. Gore Tex, Ceramic (Lowe??), Pertex and others work at different ranges and some work better in certain conditions. I think GoreTex works best when there is high humidity inside and not out - ie on a dry day, others work better in different conditions.
So in short they can work, will they work everyday? No or not to the same extent. If it's as wet and cold inside the jacket as out you should have bought a buffalo.

Skin

I gave up looking years ago.

I gave up too but have settled on

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CLAGSECM/agu-secco-condom-mens-rainjacket

Cheap as chips. I live in SE Asia so in torrential rain as well as heat and humidity it's put through its paces.

It'll get damp inside from its less than perfect breathableness but on the whole it works well. It's [b]very[/b] waterproof and as it's small, it'll happpily take it on and off putting it in a pocket if it's showery.

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_truth_about_breathable_waterproofs

TBH most people just don't really know what it means. Breathable doesn't mean "you won't sweat" or "you'll stay cool", it means "moisture can get out"- that's all. So people get a heavy duty waterproof, wear it in summer rain then complain that they're drowning in sweat- even as their mates in a t-shirt are also sweating. A solid winter jacket is still a substantial bit of fabric.

IMO the secret is, just wear the right one. I have an altura attack that's my bombproof winter jacket, it's fantastic for the bad days, when it's wet and [i]cold[/i]. It's useless for anything else but it's like cheating in winter. And I have an eVent gilet which is perfect for less bad conditions- who cares if they have wet arms? It keeps my core dry/dryer and comfy.

There's a wee vicious circle thing too... Lots of riders avoid riding in bad conditions, and fair enough. But you notice that they also tend to have really serious waterproofs- seems logical, they don't like getting wet so they read the group tests and get the most impressive looking jacket. But it's probably not very suited to the milder conditions that they want to ride in. And that, obviously, makes them less happy about riding in the rain...

I would say it really is you get what you pay for. To get anything that is breathable and waterproof you need to spend big money. Even then you will always be damp as mountain biking as opposed to say walking, generates tons more heat and sweat.

Happy to spend £200 + on a walking jacket so why do I question that for a cycling jacket?

so why do I question that for a cycling jacket?

Because it will get filthy the first time you use it* and have it's lifespan shortened by repeated washing?

*slight exaggeration.

I find modern GoreTex Pro jackets very breathable, got drenched a few weeks back in the Lakes putting on another layer in the rain, yet two hours later was bone dry under the jacket. All the moisture had just evaporated through the jacket whilst we were walking along.

jimdubleyou - Member

Because it will get filthy the first time you use it* and have it's lifespan shortened by repeated washing?

It's an outer shell, who cares if it's a bit dirty? I just dry mine and brush it off, unless it's really manky (ie, I have fallen in a swamp) but even then mostly it just gets the hose.

Northwind +1

I think a lot of folk wear waterproofs before they need to. I find myself in a sofshell/windproof much more than waterproof these days.

We have too high an expectation of what waterproof and breathable is, fed by adverts of 'guaranteed to keep you dry' and '2 bazzilion breathabilities and hour' figures of the industry. Nothing will keep you dry for a prolonged period of high intensity activity in proper rain.

Cut, user error, venting etc are all waaaay more important than price tag, fabric and this years new fad.

Never found Goretex to be that good but never had a problem with Pertex or Event which have kept me dry without turning me into a boil in the bag.

I have Goretex and Event jackets.

The best one is the Goretex one, but only because it has fantastic big pit zips. Its a great jacket in crappy conditions.

Never found Goretex to be that good

IMO, Windstopper is shaping up to be crap, yet Goretex ProShell is good.

Modern fabrics are much better than the old G&H Cagjac I used to wear.

Yes, it's possible. Fabrics do breathe. However this may or may not stop you getting damp under your jacket.

For this, you need something to wick the sweat away from your skin, then any other layers need to be able to wick too, then the jacket has to be able to shift as much moisture as your body's producing. If any of those things don't happen you'll get damp. Most breathable fabrics are not breathable enough to shift the copious amounts of sweat a fat MTBer will produce.

If at any point you think your jacket's not breathable, go and get an actual non breathable one and test the difference.

It's an outer shell, who cares if it's a bit dirty?

It does. Dirt affects performance, especially if it's eVent, don't want those tiny holes blocked. And you don't want the dirt inside eroding the delicate membranes either.

Because it will get filthy the first time you use it*

If it's wet enough that you plan to wear a jacket, put mudguards on.

I buy jacket with pit-zips, because they work, unlike a jacket's 'breathability'. What really annoying me is those stupid back flaps, they tout as vents, 'cause like they're going to work when you have a pack on. The issue is finding decent high spec waterproof materials with pitzips IME. I've ended up with a walking jacket, because I just couldn't locate anything (I need a light not heavy weight waterproof) otherwise.

The issue is finding decent high spec waterproof materials with pitzips IME

Endura have one (or had last time I checked) from their own PTFE fabric which is microporous like eVent and hence breathable unaffected by humidity. Have not yet got round to buying one.

have to confess I've got past the buying Goretex/Event etc. Found the best method is to wear a soft shell (either gilet or coat), and have a sailing coat in the bag. Sailing coats are dry, but not the most breathable. But did I mention the dryness?

At the moment it's all decathlon. Either [url= https://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-500-mens-softshell-gilet-black-id_8226826.html ]this[/url], [url= https://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-500-mens-warm-softshell-jacket-blue-id_8343863.html ]this[/url] (in black), or [url= https://www.tribord.co.uk/offshoroa-mens-waterproof-and-breathable-sailing-anorak-dark-grey-id_8319500 ]this[/url]. Combined price, less than £120. Works wonders. Keeps me dry, and comes with a natty bright orange hood in case I'm going down for the third time. 😆

I think a lot of it is in the 'wearing a waterproof too early' malarky. The softshell keeps most of the rain off. If it really starts hammering down then you get the better one out.

Which Goretex material?

Couldn't tell you the exact one as it was a few years since I've had anything that was by that brand. I found the original was marginally better your cheap plastic jackets, I then tried a few different ones which I think were XCR. These were marginally better but not really breathable as they had you believe and found that I needed the jacket open to keep cool. The last jacket de-laminated and after much messing about I gave up on trying to get it replaced as they blamed me for washing it wrong when it had been washed and treated with Nikwax products as recommended.
I was given an old Jack Wolfskin jacket that had a Pertex membrane in and found it to waterproof and breathable. I've since stuck with their products.
My motorbike gear which gets more tested than my hiking jacket use mainly Event but some of the newer stuff has Outdry membranes and so far has been 100% reliable.

Depends a lot on what you are doing and how you are doing it too.

So get an ebike and you can wear a bin bag?

Dunno exactly what it's made from, but my Rapha City Rain jacket seems to fit the bill.

http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/city-rain-jacket/product/URJ02XXDFGSML

Never thought of it before, but it could make a really good MTB jacket for soaking wet rides.