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Most of it full of shit.
So in order to curb sewage releases and water leaks, you know the thing they should do. Your water bills are about to shoot up.
Remember Southern water made £139,000,000 profit after paying a £90,000,000 fine but you know who's going to foot this bill.
"proposes to increase its charges to customers from £432 to a minimum of £677 by 2030, although it suggests the figure could be as high as £793. "
It’s always been coming - the whole reason the water industry was privatised in the first place was the Tory government of the day saw what was coming down the pipe (so to speak) and didn’t want ‘government’ linked to the unpopular consequences of either paying for the required investment or the fallout from not doing so.
the whole deal hinges on those shareholders being prepared to not care and cash the cheques.
If the industry can be penalised for failure and still pay out profits year in year out then that’s exactly how it’s supposed to be.
Good piece in The Guardian a while back - https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2023/jun/15/drought-is-on-the-verge-of-becoming-the-next-pandemic
Paul Whitehouse did a good mini series earlier this year too.
We all know it's a huge problem that the market will never resolve because it's not profitable. Equally a govt or opposition party could never drum up support for taking water back into public control because the short term costs would be so great. Whilst water continues to come out of our taps, the issue will be kicked into the long grass.
Looks like Thames Water is going bust
So it'll be a public sector problem fairly soon. With the upcoming costs to sort the s1ht out I doubt it'll be sold again without a giant sweetener....
Water Companies were sold to Asset Funds.
Asset Funds need to increase the immediate profits and value of the company in the short term.
Capital expenditure on large infrastructure negatively impacts profit and value in the short term.
Asset Managers prevent Capital expenditure
After 20-30 years like this, the whole industry is on it's knees withthe sh!t rising and no money in the bank.
Who knew that market Capitalism doesn't work for the long term benefit of society?
Water Companies were sold to Asset Funds.
Asset Funds need to increase the immediate profits and value of the company in the short term.
Capital expenditure on large infrastructure negatively impacts profit and value in the short term.
Asset Managers prevent Capital expenditure
After 20-30 years like this, the whole English industry is on it’s knees withthe sh!t rising and no money in the bank.
Who knew that market Capitalism doesn’t work for the long term benefit of society?
looks like most of the water co’s are lining up to go bankrupt so the shareholders aren’t liable for the capital i<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">nvestments costs needed after routing the companies for dividends for years. Privatise the profits and nationalise the debt as ever was the case.
</span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Meanwhile 97% of Scottish receiving waters are classed as good or outstanding and some of the best in Europe</span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">
</span>
being selfish for a moment, I hope the cost is only to the English tax payer so us Scots aren’t paying twice!
looks like most of the water co’s are lining up to go bankrupt so the shareholders aren’t liable for the capital
Would a water company that has gone bankrupt have any value? Sounds like the perfect way to get them all back in public ownership. Buy them all for £1 each! 🙂
Just listening to a debate on 5 Llive at the mo.....some Tory councillor (i think) has just blamed the Victorians for the lack of foresight! 😀
Apparently dividends are needed though since otherwise the owners of the water companies wont invest.
ermmmmm.
Makes me absolutely livid when I think too much about it. What sort of ****ing moronic country sells it's water? Absolutely stupendously ridiculous idea! Apparently England and Wales are the only countries in the entire world to have fully privatised water supply and sewage services. Ty Thatcher... The Tories again! Scum.
Nor any drop to drink.
I fort we woz takin ar ****ree bak
Welsh Water are a not for profit organisation
Llive at the mo…..some Tory councillor (i think) has just blamed the Victorians for the lack of foresight!
Shows how ignorant most Tories are when it comes to history. The Thames was so filthy in Victorian times that Parliament had to move out of the city during the ‘Great Stink’, the stench was unbearable during a particularly hot summer.
A Victorian engineer took on the challenge to build a new sewage and water system, and it’s still functioning today, thanks to his work.
He stopped outbreaks of cholera in London, and cleaned up the Thames, it’s because of him that there are seals, fish and even whales in the Thames these days. The Victorians had plenty of foresight, it’s the sodding politicians of today who don’t, they’re all for short-term profits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bazalgette
Private companies making a profit for shareholders. No shock there.
What surprises me is how dumb and ignorant the general public are in failing to make a connection between poor regulation/private monopoly and pollution of the environment.
You can literally have a conversation with somebody about how polluted the rivers are, then they go and buy cheap fried chicken the next day.
Where do you think that comes from?
We have millions of them in Wales and their shit is literally flowing into the river your kids swim in!
Welsh Water/Dwr Cymru are indeed a Not for Profit - however Wales' other (and much smaller) water company - Hafren Dyfrdwy - are a private company just like the companies in England (they are effectively Severn Trent)
Hafren Dyfrdwy lost money in the last few years - I think that's why they were separated. That now makes them vulnerable to a takeover. They also publish sewage overflow figures and they're nothing to be proud of!
FWIW I recommend separating surface runoff from sewerage, using rainwater to flush toilets and filtering existing outflows before the river/sea e.g. with reedbeds. We also need to have more permeable surfaces in urban areas, to soak up heavy rainfall.
Makes me absolutely livid when I think too much about it. What sort of **** moronic country sells it’s water?
isn’t it strange how right wing governments and their voters consider themselves patriotic. Shirk the responsibility of providing vital services to the population, pointedly fail to regulate that service, mire the county and sea around it in our own shit, demand more flags in classrooms.
FWIW I recommend separating surface runoff from sewerage, using rainwater to flush toilets and filtering existing outflows before the river/sea e.g. with reedbeds. We also need to have more permeable surfaces in urban areas, to soak up heavy rainfall.
Absolutely, every house should only be allowed a certain %age of the curtilage to be non-permeable. Would solve a lot of problems.
Any improvements will take time, money and effort. All of which seem to be in short supply.
I hate to say it, but let them collapse. I know a lot of pension funds are going to get hit. But we shouldn't be having to pay for mismanagement, or basically legal embezzlement of funds.
Maybe it might make the funds do more appropriate due diligence.
isn’t it strange how right wing governments and their voters consider themselves patriotic. Shirk the responsibility of providing vital services to the population, pointedly fail to regulate that service, mire the county and sea around it in our own shit, demand more flags in classrooms.
So much this. A government's first priority is to ensure that basic needs of the population are met, to fail to do so is just a complete failure
Absolutely, every house should only be allowed a certain %age of the curtilage to be non-permeable. Would solve a lot of problems.
Many houses down my road have the front gardens covered over, because everyone has several cars, vans or caravans, and the road isn’t wide enough to cope with cars either side, and allow larger vehicles to get between them, like delivery vehicles and fire engines, which tend to come up my road.
My frontage is also covered over, however when my step-dad did it years ago to park the caravan on, because on my side of the road the garden is nearly a foot lower than the footpath, it was filled in with rubble, then granite aggregate, then gravel to top it off, so when it rains water drains straight through. Because a lot of the concrete or brick covered drives are inclined, they then have to put drainage in to stop water draining into the front of the house.
What shit show.... Literally....
What other (supposedly) first world country pumps raw sewage into the sea?
My mate living in Brighton, just 20n from the sea, doesn't go swimming anymore.
Go UK!
Oh, and this is how most European countries see the UK.....
Poland and Bulgaria are better off than most in the UK.
Many houses down my road have the front gardens covered over, because everyone has several cars, vans or caravans, and the road isn’t wide enough to cope with cars either side, and allow larger vehicles to get between them, like delivery vehicles and fire engines, which tend to come up my road.
None of which negates what I said. You can put that recycled plastic lattice stuff down and just seed the gaps with grass.
BBC article says this:
Taxpayers will be exposed to the debts and running costs of Thames Water if the government has to take it over, the Business Committee chair has said.
I think you'll find that many taxpayers are also water consumers. So of course they will. However, paying through a progressive taxation system means that the people and organisations who can afford the most money should pay the most money. Given that everyone needs water in similar amounts, but not everyone has the same means to pay for it, this is the only fair way to do it.
If you want an example of how shit Toryism is, look here.
FWIW I recommend separating surface runoff from sewerage, using rainwater to flush toilets and filtering existing outflows before the river/sea e.g. with reedbeds. We also need to have more permeable surfaces in urban areas, to soak up heavy rainfall.
Yes, anyone who concretes over their front garden or puts down plastic grass (which does nothing to absorb rain unlike real grass) then complains about sewage overflows needs to give their head a wobble - while it's not the main cause, increased urban run-off is certainly a factor.
I don't know why concrete grids with grass aren't a more common car park surface?
This whole water industry shit-show does beg the question - [b]where the hell have OFWAT been!!?[/b]
Just allowing these practices to carry on for years with seemingly no punishment.
Is it another of those organisations that exist just to fund their own existence and have no real use.
I don’t know why concrete grids with grass aren’t a more common car park surface?
Because it means regular maintenance - tarmac it and you can kick that maintenance budget down the road and make it someone else's problem in 10yrs time.
@the-muffin-man You’d hope e.g. the National Trust would be better with this stuff, but no.
We need to get bags of shit and do dirty protests
we’re all sort of doing that whether we intend to or not.
Agree with everything on here.
Get them in state ownership and the let government pay. It doesn't need to be private, and doesn't need to be a taxpayer issue.
This is the start of more market collapse.
I'm surprised that concreting over a garden doesn't need planning with S/EPA input. God knows we had to jump through hoops when built the pump track. Demonstrated to sepa the surface area for soak away was increased.
What other (supposedly) first world country pumps raw sewage into the sea?
France, Bulgaria, Ireland, Spain? It's particularly bad on Shitshow Island, but let's not pretend that this is something only the UK faces.
https://www.waternewseurope.com/tourists-in-europe-are-swimming-in-raw-sewage-despite-blue-flags/
@onehundredthidiot It really should need planning permission. Unlike plastic grass, which should just be banned outright.
OFWAT is more concerned with the consumer side of things, like safe drinking water, affordable bills etc. It's really the Environment Agency who are supposed to police sewage discharges + agricultural pollution. Except they don't. At all. Any meagre resources they have are entirely directed towards flood prevention. That's what the people want. Retards.
I wonder if the endless headlines are shifting public opinion though?
It's not much better up here.
Meanwhile 97% of Scottish receiving waters are classed as good or outstanding and some of the best in Europe
But Scottish water are merrily pumping shit into them 38 times a day https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sewage-dumped-scotlands-rivers-14000-29592391l
Whilst letting 454 million litres a day leak out of their pipes.
https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/your-home/your-water/leakage
None of which negates what I said. You can put that recycled plastic lattice stuff down and just seed the gaps with grass.
I know, which is why I pointed out that very few houses along my road, which is pretty long, that have turned their frontage over to parking, have made it permeable. Bloke across the road did his fairly quickly, just dumped a load of gravel on the garden and raked it flat. Trouble with that is he has to keep adding gravel due to the weight of the vehicles pressing it into the dirt! It’s just easier to pay a contractor to come in, concrete it over, or level and put bricks down. People, generally speaking, don’t know and don’t care about making a permeable surface to allow water to drain through. My patio out back is square slabs, but they’re on levelled dirt, and water just drains between them.
Will Hutton of the Guardian being as thick as two short planks in his understanding at what Capitalism will deliver.
"Now, water bosses, you must show how capitalism can work for the common good"
These liberal idiots doing the ground work for the Tories and New New Labour every time. And then wondering why it all turns out so shit.
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1675427061190541313?t=je5VFeCi_XVvymZtoHLJhA&s=19
His maths are ridiculous too.