[Closed] Was this dangerous?

I would contact the operators for sure but not make a massive deal about it but be sure to insist on a response. No one was hurt, they may not be aware that such a thing could happen so giving them the chance to check it out and make changes if needed is the best idea.

I guess it depends on two aspects:
1) Can you fall through an 8" gap? Unlikely.
2) Can you further prise the doors apart enough to increase the gap? No idea.

Wasn't there and never been on them so can't comment further than that. But from what you've said does sound a bit sketchy.

It's not especially dangerous, the springs that hold the doors shut are very strong so the doors wouldn't open further.

Having said that, the person supervising the loading should have hit the emergency stop before the pod left the loading area and sorted it. That's what would happen in a ski resort with a gondola with an open door.

Worth an email

Answering only from my experience of working in the building industry, not familiar with the 02 cable car.
The doors seemed like they were "locked" shut in the not quite closed position. a safety stop will prevent them closing hard on something or somebody trapped.
To open again requires further mechanical action, presumably disabled while the car is in motion.

Dangerous, no.
Uncomfortable for someone afraid of heights, yes.
Falling short of the standard I'd expect from such a service, yes.

From plenty of MTB/ski trips, the doors don't "lock" shut. They simply spring shut when a lever on the roof of the car passes over a cam on the way out the station - there's no interlock as such. Pull hard enough (or block them) and you can have them open in transit - a pretty common thing on some of the smaller older bubbles in summer is to wedge a foot in the door to get a bit more ventilation. You have to WANT to do it, mind, and its not comfortable to do in soft 5:10s

Sloppy of the lifties to let it out the station like that though.

I'll ping them an email. As stated lift attendents were clearly not attending and 300ft is a long way up to not be sure if the doors might spring open!

jeffl
Full Member
2) Can you further prise the doors apart enough to increase the gap? No idea.

Certainly can, used to be a common thing at Ft Bill to avoid cooking in the summer. Even when you've jammed a foot in it, it still takes a load of force to open them.

Of course these doors dont shut quickly, so i'd guess she was trying to get in as the doors were closing, but basically:

Sloppy of the lifties to let it out the station like that though.

I wasnt involved so not as dangerous as it could have been

Well, from the sound of it that could potentially have been a limb stuck half out of the doors so dangerous - yes!

I would say it's a potentially dangerous fault, rather than the event being actually dangerous. That it could happen suggests that safety systems, whether mechanical or procedural, are not working, and that's certainly something the operators should be made aware of. If the door can close on a bag and the car still operate, it could close on person - maybe more outside than in at the time.

Not dangerous, as was shown by this otherwise uneventful journey. Happens all the time in ski resorts.

if someone could deliberately drop something in the doorway to keep the doors open more than 8" without at least an alarm or the system stopping, surely that's not complying with H&S legislation to do everything practicable to prevent an accident? Like running a bit of equipment without the guard in place.

both of my children (11 and 5) could fit through an 8" gap without any problems.

Not dangerous, as was shown by this otherwise uneventful journey.

A logical fallacy, just because it didn't end in a more serious incident doesn't mean it's not dangerous.

I'd e-mail them. Even if there wasn't a real chance of one of the passengers falling through that gap, imagine the damage a falling object would do to anyone below!

I like to think that if it had been a limb or worse then they would have pressed the emergency button which I assume would have stopped the system. I think they were loathe to stop the whole loop of cars for a bag, especially as they are shy teenage girls, but yes it suggested to me that there was a failiure somewhere in the emergency prevention systems that allowed this to happen.

As for @nickjb helpful comment, firstly it doesn't happen 'all the time' at ski resorts - as a seasonaire, our lift attendants were super vigilant - it was the chair lifts where accidents happened. Secondly I'm sure he would have been happy for his slim teenage daughter with a fear of heights to be snuggled up next to a 8" gap 300ft above the thames then...

There must be safty eyes on (CCTV)that lift station base? Just to make sure no toddlers head is traped or some other drama.
Sloppy lift operator at best. I've seen people poke ski poles in them to keep an air gap on older lifts

Dangerous, no.
Uncomfortable for someone afraid of heights, yes.
Falling short of the standard I’d expect from such a service, yes.

This.

Was it actually 8 inches? Thats a pretty stuffed bag to compress and still create an 8 inch obstruction, it wouldn't be full of hard textbooks on a fieldtrip...and metric surely would be the measurement choice for a 17 year old? My rucksack for work is about 8 inches when fully stuffed and most of that is a comparatively soft tuppaware lunchbox.

Might be worth clarifying before taking it further, standing on the packed bag should give an idea of how far it would squash! Sitting close to a small gap and being able to see the width of the Thames through it may have made it seem much wider than it really was.

I’d say, yes, this was potentially a dangerous situation.

Maybe not for your child, but I image some would take great delight in trying to force the doors open further, or try and get a significant portion outside their body outside the doors.

Further, the doors were reportedly 8” open…how far can they be opened without fail safes activating.

Definitely with a contact IMHO.

Apparently it was a fully stuffed (Chromebook, coat, lunch) Fjall Raven Kanken. As being teenagers who don't have to wear a uniform they all have to look the same my daughter has exactly the same bag full of the same stuff so I squished it and it came to around 8in (my measurement units, not hers).

Unfortuneatly despite taking selfies at every other juncture nobody thought to take a photo or the doors so probably nothing anyone can do now but i pinged off an email to TFL just to make them aware. Maybe someone will check and try to replicate, maybe not. At least if something bad happens in the future I won't feel guilty!

1) Can you fall through an 8″ gap? Unlikely.

Yes. I can fit through an 8-inch gap without difficulty.

Although the gap is irrelevant really, as this is merely indicative of deeper problems.

1. The pod should not be able to leave the staging area with an open door. If this means an emergency stop is applied to the wheel, so be it.

2. There's a human factors issue here that someone should be overseeing this and failed to stop the wheel (either someone at the door or via camera).

3. That the pod can leave the station with an open door is concerning. Why did it think it was closed? Pressure sensors on the seal are not appropriate because they signal closed when a person or object is trapped. There should be an independent interlock here.

I would report it independently to HSE (I think photographs will be particularly helpful here).

I’ve had bikes stuck in cabin doors and the odd snowboard, but nothing wide.

The doors are closed by a ramp pushing on either a follower on the mast on the cabin, a protrusion on the roof, or the base. It’s a toggle clamp with a big over centre spring to keep it all shut. If it fails to activate and lock there’s a tell tale the protusion will strike on passing the ramp, triggering the emergency stop. So either they have closed enough or the tell tale is broken.

I’d email them. Tell them which direction she was travelling in and what time so they can check CCTV.

I’m not surprised they didn’t notice. My dad once managed to get onto a downward bound cabin on a glacier after closing time. He went halfway down the glacier then the lift reversed with the cabins flowing into storage at the station. Thankfully he’s pretty good at making a fuss and so didn’t get to spend the night in some concrete cabin garage at 2800m. He did get a lift all the way down to Hintertux in a piste basher though. The git.

Edit: I think the tell tale is always struck if the doors are properly closed.

My dad once managed to get onto a downward bound cabin on a glacier after closing time. He went halfway down the glacier....

That could have ended with a very cold night!

There must of been a missing sign at the loading point as the doors to cabins close long after they’ve passed the ‘no loading beyond this point’ sign to stop things like this from happening. And no one in their right mind would sneak round that sign just to get into a cabin with their mate

I suppose if they'd felt determinedly suicidal they could have jumped up from the safety of sitting in their seats and tried to force themselves through the gap. However sitting in their seats it would have required king kong to grab the gondola, tip it on its side and shake it, though I suspect he'd have had to prise the door open a bit more.

Don't send your daughter that still has 1960s chair lifts running. 😉

Gondolas used to have (possibly still do) a "prop" you could swing across as the doors closed so as to leave a gap for ventilation.

I think this would be scary for someone scared of heights and would have ruined her trip. Get some cash back OP, best outcome.

If we are talking safety, nothing is 100% protective - chair lifts (as above), hot air balloons, fairground rides...if I wiggle like "this" and twist like "that" I've fallen out! But at some point it isn't really incidental.

What does a 17 year old known about inches?

Pressure sensors on the seal are not appropriate because they signal closed when a person or object is trapped. There should be an independent interlock here.

It’s an unpowered cabin dangling from a cable. You’ll need to lower your technical expectations