Want to truly have empathy for animals? Stop owning pets

Or just get a cat. Cats don't have owners, they have staff.

There's always one or two at the loony end of the spectrum, in both directions.

Myself, I could have a dog or a cat... or many many rats and mice.

I choose dog.

Also, I question a goldfish's ability to be bored.

I don't have pets.... or empathy.... I'm mostly devoid of feelings 🙂

I’m mostly devoid of felines

FIFY

Came real close to adopting a rescue greyhound over Christmas - I love dogs and WFH makes having one much more sensible, Mrs Pondo couldn't quite get on board and it has to be a two-player game, it does compromise what you can do. I'm prepared to, she isn't (quite), so no dog just yet. 🙁

Go on then.

Well that article's a bit late.

We went and looked at a Cocker Spaniel puppy last night and he'll be home with us in a few weeks time!

It’s sad that the Guardian resorts to click bait

I don’t think humans before pet ownership saw animals as anything other than prey or a threat

Collaboration with animals is exactly what defines us as a species and how we evolved the way we did  - we don't need incredible hearing or senses of smell or fangs or claws- we can extend our senses with dogs, extend our speed and  range with horses, navigate oceans with ravens....and  ummmm open tins for cats.

What a load of rubbish click bait.

Next weeks story will be if we really want to save the planet we should all just kill ourselves and be done with it. Mother earth will get along fine without humans.

Oops, just got this Labradoodle pup a few weeks ago! WFH does make it easier, but with my kids being 12 and 14 I've forgotten what sleepless nights were like.....and cleaning up piss and shit....Shes great though!

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We have rescue hens. Ive just popped out to ask them their thoughts on this. Apparently they prefer being pets than mcnuggets.

A miserable rescued dog earlier...

but with my kids being 12 and 14 I’ve forgotten what sleepless nights were like…..and cleaning up piss and shit…

Dont worry - it won't be long before they start drinking

Member of 'staff' here to 4 cats. Bloody door man in the evening !  Our cat's are house cats (3 pedigrees and a rescue with cat flu), so have a run in the garden (quite extensive). With it being cold, we shut the door to the conservatory, so they access the run via the conservatory window. One in particular is in and out all evening. Let him out, 10 minutes later he's in banging on the window to come in. Let him in. Two minutes later, he's either banging on the window, ripping at the carpet, or standing on you meowing  to go out. This goes on all evening, then you add in the other three who are slightly less frequent.

I’m mostly devoid of felines

Deserves more recognition- bravo sir, and very quick too!

Pets are great for teaching kids responsibility for others apparently, although in my experience once the novelty has worn off, it is the parents who have to walk the moving shit factory every day. After that, pets seem mostly there for the amusement and vanity of the owners. If you are happy to treat another sentient being as a toy then fine, fill your boots and I am sure the animals are either grateful or too dumb to know the difference.

I don't have kids or pets.

What a load of rubbish click bait.

This.  I expected better of the Guardian.  Even if there's a valid point to be had here, it's expressed exceptionally poorly with loads of non-sequiturs and whataboutery.

Eg, "It is hard to fathom the boredom of pet fish" - well, yes, it is, but this is begging the question.  Are fish bored?  Do they bob about in fishtanks longing for a game of Canasta?  Are they pining for you to get home and put the telly on because Arsenal are playing Man U at 7?  Whilst we're here, have we researched the excitement levels of our lawn?

Eg2, "dogs are often hit by cars."  The number one cause of testicular cancer is "having testicles," what does the author propose as a solution here?

I could go on but it's too early on a Wednesday with too little coffee for me to give it further credence.

Dont worry – it won’t be long before they start drinking

🤣

Our cat’s are house cats... so have a run in the garden (quite extensive).

Would you mind sharing a photo of that please?

With it being cold, we shut the door to the conservatory, so they access the run via the conservatory window. One in particular is in and out all evening. Let him out, 10 minutes later he’s in banging on the window to come in. Let him in. Two minutes later, he’s either banging on the window, ripping at the carpet, or standing on you meowing to go out. This goes on all evening, then you add in the other three who are slightly less frequent.

Cats don't want to be out or in particularly, they just don't like closed doors. Fit a cat flap?

Came real close to adopting a rescue greyhound over Christmas

Do it, wonderful dogs. Lazy and occasionally aloof, but still amazing.

If you read the article on an non individual scale then it makes sense.  It is not saying you have a pet therefore you are a bad person, but there is more going on here that deserves looking at.  My take on it is that it has gone away from being domesticated by dogs, or the other way around we aren’t quite sure, to the benefit of both to most of the benefit being for the human.  There are plenty of exceptions, but there any many times that people get a pet to help with something missing in their lives that potentially used to be filled with people.

As a highly social species when we stop living in social groups and become isolated then pets have often filled the gap.  If the level of pet ownership has increased so much then it is good to ask the question about how we are functioning and why people get pets.

As usual people have taken the article personally rather than looking at the population level question being raised and critically analysing their own situation in light of the different perspective.

For full disclosure I keep chickens, that mostly feed themselves and I provide some shelter (when they deign to use it). The local fox takes a few occasionally and I get a few eggs.  I also used to have rabbits when my oldest had mental health issues, but as they got better we both felt they were not getting the life and attention we wanted for them, so they now have a large garden to roam in and two more children looking out for them.

Bored shitless rescue dog
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Is that a mythical Brocken Spectre that I can see from the top of this mountain? Oh well....I'm still bored.

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I haven't read the article but, too many pets are overfed, under exercised, therefore overweight, this is not kindness, it's treating the pet as a fur baby.

If people really want a pet they should go to a rescue centre. These centres are overrun with unwanted guinea pigs, domestic rabbits, dogs, cats and many other animals.

Or just get a cat. Cats don’t have owners, they have staff.

Indeed. God knows what our cats would do if i wasn't there to provide them with the 24 hour running buffet they've come to expect

Let him out, 10 minutes later he’s in banging on the window to come in. Let him in. Two minutes later, he’s either banging on the window, ripping at the carpet, or standing on you meowing  to go out.

Working from home, this is my entire day. I've just had to get up and let one of the little sods in now. He only went out 5 minutes ago

If people really want a pet they should go to a rescue centre. These centres are overrun with unwanted guinea pigs, domestic rabbits, dogs, cats and many other animals.

Ours are rescue cats. One (Nelson) was found abandoned and feral. He's as soft as anything

@cougar, I'll see what photo's I can find on the phone. Cat flap won't work well in two full height patio doors ! It's fine when it's warmer as the door is left slightly open.

Once I find out just who's cat is shitting in our garden I'll happily watch them picking up the poo instead of me, until then I will remain full of hatred and rage for the pet owners of the world.

@cougar,

This section links up to the conservatory side window - this was the original section. It's about 3m long and 1.2m deep

https://www.flickr.com/photos/166882394@N07/52676826768/in/dateposted-public/

Then this extension runs under the arbor, and a tunnel along the back of the garden, with the additional 'chicken' coup over the fence (spare land ahem)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/166882394@N07/52676617559/in/dateposted-public/

The tunnel needs replacing this year as the timber floor is starting to warp.

Oh, that's brill!  Thanks.

I ask because I have indoor cats, I've idly tossed about the idea of 'controlled outdoors' for a while now.

Once I find out just who’s cat is shitting in our garden I’ll happily watch them picking up the poo instead of me, until then I will remain full of hatred and rage for the pet owners of the world.

Get a dog? I recommend a sighthound. They love cats!

Since rescuing ours, cat shit in the garden has ceased. And a few of the slower cats have lost a little bit of fur.

The article makes good points but takes them to strange places. The solution to mistreatment of domestic animals is to gradually eliminate them as a species?

I think the argument against owning birds or caged rodents is stronger, since they clearly don't want to be caged and need constant attention to not get bored. Cats and dogs have cohabited with humans for a long time though.

If you read the article on an non individual scale then it makes sense.

I'm unconvinced.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Even if the author's point it did make sense, it's terribly presented.  "Thinking about getting a goldfish?  But what about all the wolves, you monster!"  It is, frankly, a weird article.</span>

Cat flap won’t work well in two full height patio doors !

You can get flaps to fit glass doors (or your window).

Cougar

Cats don’t want to be out or in particularly, they just don’t like closed doors.

You sound like you might be projecting here.

I knew there had to be a reason I carried lockpicks.

@ Cougar

we also have a "Catio" with tree branches and trunks, multi level sleeping pods, loads of plants etc.. for our 3 indoor (rescue) cats and then walk the wee fuzzy blighters in harnesses daily

Our 'catio' is a little more overgrown at the back now - got a few climbing honeysuckle on it that  have to go over and 'control'.  We got the chicken coup via amazon - worked out cheaper than the timber needed to construct it, but the platforms inside did add up in cost terms. The cat's love it and will use the bark at the bottom for toilet duties, hence reducing the litter we need. The original section was over an existing border, with plants in it already. The wire is bird cage netting, and ordering on-line is much cheaper than DIY places.

@ Cougar

we also have a “Catio” with tree branches and trunks, multi level sleeping pods, loads of plants etc.. for our 3 indoor (rescue) cats and then walk the wee fuzzy blighters in harnesses daily

I experimented with harnesses.  It ended... predictably.  I might try again now they're a little older.

Intruiged as to why people (who have gardens and doors outside) have house cats.

Intruiged as to why people (who have gardens and doors outside) have house cats.

I like cats.

I don't particularly like injured or dead cats.

🤷‍♂️

Trying to show empathy with animals by limiting pet ownership is small-fry when compared to the realisation that 2/3rds of the mammal population currently on the planet are bred so that humans can eat them.

Slow news day !

Here's our two bored, depressed, unloved, non-walked, neglected & lonely pooches......

[img] [/img]

We've a rescue dog from a kill shelter in romania. Figured if we were going to enslave an animal we may as well kill it with human kindness rather than lethal injection.

She spends most of her days watching me on the laptop between getting fusses and sleeping, with the periodic wander around the local field where she ignores all other dogs, and trips to the beach, and overnight adventures in our tiny camper.

Such is our desire to keep her burdened by not being euthanised, we've been housebound for the past 4 weeks looking after her after she had a bout of GDV and surgery, then surgery for a disc prolapse (our insurance currently loves us). So has needed a lot of rehab, but is on the mend.

her tail keeps wagging. she still nudges us whe she wants more fuss. she greets us with an excited 'smile', a kinda wonky tooth bearing thing. no idea how she figured that out, she's always done it for her people. 🙂

made me realise that I like dogs more than humans.

I am also owned by a cat. That cat was going to be an indoor cat but it became really clear that he wanted to be out. I took him for a few walks with a harness, then let him go he stuck close by at first but then went further and further.. He's a much happier cat. (I know this doesn't apply for all cats)

Eg2, “dogs are often hit by cars.”  The number one cause of testicular cancer is “having testicles,” what does the author propose as a solution here?

More cars.

As for house cats. Our previous three (four) had been normal cats. We got a pedigree that clearly wanted to be out as the existing cat was out. Unfortunately, ragdoll's aren't particularly 'bothered' about anything, and he got run over.  Our rescue is kept in as he has cat flu, that can be spread to other non-vax cats, so we keep him in (his immune system isn't as good). Fortunately, since removing all his teeth - (gingivitis and ulcers on rescuing him) he's not been ill. MrsF and daughter had conspired to get more Ragdolls, so two kittens arrived soon after the rescue did, and a year later another (same parents) as the 'older cat' was getting old. We had 5 for a couple of years.

Pedigrees you'd usually keep in, depending upon the type, Ragdolls being a bit 'stupid' in they don't have the same natural 'oh shoot and leg it response' - they behave a bit more like dogs.  The rescue get's out occasionally, but he's back within minutes. plus, the others having long fur, they'd come in tangled with branches.

I don’t particularly like injured or dead cats.

Me neither but I don't like imprisoned under-stimulated cats either.  Cats need space.  Seeing how much my cats like the outdoors I couldn't bring myself to lock them in all the time. I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me so I won't do it to them.

@lovewookie

you absolute monster!!😉

mine just came back from vet yesterday after a £500 quid dental appointment. I wish I’d read that article before I burdened myself with the furry little money pit..

Intruiged as to why people (who have gardens and doors outside) have house cats.

we have 3 resuces, all were horrifically mistreated before we had them so have " issues" one is half blind and terrified of other humans, (he's fine with us having spent a lot of time working with him) the other 2 also have their foibles that mean that they would be lost/scared/dead in no time at all.

One of main requirements for taking them was that they were kept as house cats and we were specifically contacted by another rescue group to take on mike meowski (the one eyed loony) as our setup is so good and the best opportunity to try and give him a chance.

it takes a lot of time to make sure they have the stimulation  they need, but it is perfectly possible if you know what you are doing.

As for house cats. Our previous three (four) had been normal cats. We got a pedigree that clearly wanted to be out as the existing cat was out. Unfortunately, ragdoll’s aren’t particularly ‘bothered’ about anything, and he got run over.

Me neither but I don’t like imprisoned under-stimulated cats either.  Cats need space.  Seeing how much my cats like the outdoors I couldn’t bring myself to lock them in all the time.

Although (because?) I'm a fan of animals & have pets, I actually would not oppose a ban on private pet ownership if it were introduced (not that it would happen) as I think overall the animals would benefit.

2/3rds of the mammal population currently on the planet are bred so that humans can eat them.

I'm pretty sure that humans and rats are the most numerous species of mammal. I think you mean 2/3 of the mammal biomass, not 2/3 of the population.

I strongly agree with the article. I've been chased and bitten by dogs, they've terrified my children on occasion and we're constantly having to avoid their sh*t when walking, cycling etc. Working dogs fine but that's where I draw the line.

Regardless of empathy, I'm amazed people are getting dogs when there's a climate crisis on. The research I did a little while ago suggested that a dog has the same environmental impact a year as a Toyota Land cruiser, which is massive.

suggested that a dog has the same environmental impact a year as a Toyota Land cruiser, which is massive.

Ever tried cuddling a Landcruiser on a sofa? It won't end well! 🙂

Collaboration with animals is exactly what defines us as a species and how we evolved the way we did  – we don’t need incredible hearing or senses of smell or fangs or claws- we can extend our senses with dogs, extend our speed and  range with horses, navigate oceans with ravens….and  ummmm open tins for cats.

Modern humans developed 300.000 years ago and domesticated animals fairly recently, well within the last 20,000 years ago if the current theories are correct. That's 200.000+ years of being a defined species but being without domesticated animals. What were we doing in that interim period? Trying to invent the can opener to entice cats into our camps?

Riding horses is a very modern thing, maybe 5000 years, and not everyone had access to horses - does that mean that those people weren't human? And, even if the raven navigation thing was true, the ravens weren't domesticated.

I’m pretty sure that humans and rats are the most numerous species of mammal. I think you mean 2/3 of the mammal biomass, not 2/3 of the population.

from 'our world in data':  "Livestock make up 62% of the world’s mammal biomass; humans account for 34%; and wild mammals are just 4%."

It's a surprising statistic.... but yes biomass is correct, not population.

Global poultry now weigh twice as much as wild birds... go humans.

our world in data. org link

What were we doing in that interim period?

Killling and eating them - then we found out some of them could be friendly and some could be captured and bred from so we didn't have to do all that running around stuff.

Are we suggesting we wind back evolution?

Regardless of empathy, I’m amazed people are getting dogs when there’s a climate crisis on. The research I did a little while ago suggested that a dog has the same environmental impact a year as a Toyota Land cruiser, which is massive.

CO2e per annum for a cat is approx 310kg  and up to 700kg for a large dog. The average per Annum for a human is 7 tonnes. (13 tonnes for americans) therfore the answer is simple

nuke America and have more fluffy things  🙂

<div class="bbcode-quote">

What were we doing in that interim period?

</div>
Killling and eating them – then we found out some of them could be friendly and some could be captured and bred from so we didn’t have to do all that running around stuff.

Are we suggesting we wind back evolution?

What a strange reply to a quote taken completely out of context.

What a strange reply to a quote taken completely out of context.

[i] That’s 200.000+ years of being a defined species but being without domesticated animals. What were we doing in that interim period? Trying to invent the can opener to entice cats into our camps?[/i]

Full context - you asked what we were doing for 200,000+ years. My reply seems reasonable, if light hearted.

What do you think we were doing with animals for 200,000 years?

What do you think we were doing with animals for 200,000 years?

Same as you. It's fairly obvious. I asked the person that I quoted that question because they had suggested without domesticated animals we aren't defined as humans:

Collaboration with animals is exactly what defines us as a species 

The article seemed to be mostly taking aim at, essentially, farming animals to be pets. When it comes to rescue animals I don't think it had anything to complain about. Yes it was poorly written, but I think that main point stands. Full disclosure: I have only ever served feral or rescue cats.

mike meowski (the one eyed loony)

this made me laugh more than it should.

Schrödinger's cat theory revised :

The cat is both inside and outside the house until the door is observed.

I strongly agree with the article. I’ve been chased by people, they’ve terrified my children on occasion and we’re constantly having to avoid their sh*t when walking cycling etc.

fixed!

Once I find out just who’s cat is shitting in our garden I’ll happily watch them picking up the poo instead of me, until then I will remain full of hatred and rage for the pet owners of the world.

Good luck with that, I have three or four different cats from different places that wander into my garden and shit anywhere they please, the lawn, flower-beds, the big terracotta pot I have my apple tree in… 😖

And no, I’m not getting a dog! Christ, it costs me on average £20/week on food for ‘the pets’*, as Joey used to call them, and I still do, bugger vets bills and having to take the mutt out for walks in all winds and weathers as well!

*They’re the hedgehogs, and the various birds that eat me out of house and home.

I seem to remember reading decades ago that globally as much gets spent on petfood as would be needed to feed the world . After lockdown I reckon they could throw in a pudding too.

What do you think we were doing with animals for 200,000 years?

Judging by the mass of Straight-tusked elephant bones discovered in Germany and recently analysed, the local Neanderthal population were eating them. Bearing in mind that, the now-extinct species grew up to 13ft tall and weighed up to 13 tonnes, their barbecue parties must have been quite something.

Me neither but I don’t like imprisoned under-stimulated cats either. Cats need space.

We have a five-bedroom house.  We have three cats.  With all the space at their disposal they use maybe a third of it, they only really use the spaces that we frequent.

If your cats are under-stimulated then that's on you, play with your cat.  Look up Jackson Galaxy on YouTube.

Seeing how much my cats like the outdoors I couldn’t bring myself to lock them in all the time.

Generally, outdoor cats like being outdoor cats, and indoor cats like being indoor cats.  Change is what they don't like.

I wouldn’t want anyone to do that to me so I won’t do it to them.

You're not a cat, dufus.

And no, I’m not getting a dog! Christ, it costs me on average £20/week on food for ‘the pets’*, as Joey used to call them, and I still do, bugger vets bills and having to take the mutt out for walks in all winds and weathers as well!

Might start leasing my dog out. Fully supported, just to help owners reclaim their gardens. 😂

globally as much gets spent on petfood as would be needed to feed the world .

The problem here is humans having children rather than too many pets. Less humans = less pets & farm animals.

Generally, outdoor cats like being outdoor cats, and indoor cats like being indoor cats.  Change is what they don’t like.

Yep. We have a couple of rescue cats, we got them as young kittens. They are very happy indoors, they flee in terror when the front door opens, they show no desire to be outdoor cats. You could not keep a dog like that but cats are fine living indoors.

Next weeks story will be if we really want to save the planet we should all just kill ourselves and be done with it. Mother earth will get along fine without humans.

You may joke. Some of the lunatics that run this particular asylum were suggesting as much a few weeks ago....

I have a cat sat on me right now.

I think we're both doing quite well out of the arrangement.

Judging by the mass of Straight-tusked elephant bones discovered in Germany and recently analysed, the local Neanderthal population were eating them

Oh arse not eleburgers for tea again 🙂

You could make sandwiches for a pachydermed lunch.

I had a rescue cat until about 3 years ago. She was kind of a house cat, but only because she generally didn't actually like going outside!

We fitted a cat flap and she would nip into the garden to go toilet but that was about it. She didn't like the kids when they came along as they were too noisy and unpredictable, but when she went pretty much deff she suddenly loved the kids and started snuggling up with them as well!

We missed having a pet hanging around the house, but wasn't prepared to pay the covid premium for a dog and it was taking too long to get a rescue dog that was suitable for us. Its hardwork at the moment working from home and toilet training, but we'll be able to start walking her in a week or so.

I'm well aware of people not liking dogs or having had problems with them either biking or random jumping up at kids and stuff, it's happended to me on several occasions, I did really wonder whether to get a dog because of that, but she will be trained properly and my awareness will hopefully make me a better more responsible dog owner.