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I am putting a large shelf up in my garage which will span between an existing joist and a bit of wood fixed into breeze blocks. This shelf ideally would be strong enough for me to stand on plus a couple of bikes/
What fixings would be best to fix the bit of wood to the wall?
TIA
These things are holding the ledger board of our deck to the wall
There's a nice chart in there telling you how much it will hold up.
You can buy them in Wickes (or screwfix, or your builders merchant of choice...)
As Jim says - he posted while I was looking up the product name.
Don't use concrete screws. They are great for fixing things like windows and doors that are mainly in shear but not good when put under tension with potential movement (loading unloading).
Don’t use concrete screws. They are great for fixing things like windows and doors that are mainly in shear but not good when put under tension with potential movement (loading unloading).
This.
Expanding bolts can fracture concrete blocks.
Thanks all, that Fischer website is helpful. Off to Screwfix shortly.
wood fixed into breeze blocks
Is this what you're looking to fix? Breeze blocks are crap for load bearing, personally if i were looking to fix to bear my weight on that and couldnt fix through I'd be looking at resin anchors not plugs equally I'd probably be in no hurry to trust anything fixed into breeze for taking my weight (they're great under compression mind so something sat on them works well.)
Also what are you planning on using for the shelf that's going to bear that amount of weight? You'd be looking at 600mm spans from full length support to full length support on 18mm ply or 400mm on 18mm chip iirc. If one long edge is the joist and the other is your timber that's not a lot of room for you let alone you and a bike, if you're planning to leave one long edge unsupported I'd not plan on standing on it.
Ymmv of course and I'm over cautious...
Expanding jobbies?
In Scotland that sounds like something you'd want to avoid... 🙂
Thankyou dangerbrain food for thought. My garage is 12ft tall one side and 6ft tall the other. I want a massive shelf on the tall side to store some bulky stuff- bikes/roof box/bits of wood etc. I could knock a breeze block out and put another joist in instead of screwing into the wall will have a look at it...
(I would be standing on it sometimes to get stuff down etc)
[titter] expanding jobbies [/titter]
Full length dexion or pallet racking will likely do the job much better than trying to support a shelf if you can live with the legs.
Otherwise if you're looking to stand on it is strongly suggest running a few joists the full length of the garage parallel to the 12ft wall at 7ft to the underside. Really you want to build a loft...
Full length dexion or pallet racking will likely do the job much better than trying to support a shelf if you can live with the legs.
^ This.
Even a couple of reasonable sized wooden struts the full length of wall, fixed into blocks but with woodscrews to support shelf brackets.
Don’t use concrete screws. They are great for fixing things like windows and doors that are mainly in shear but not good when put under tension with potential movement (loading unloading).
For my stall bars, I put 8mm stud through the workshop wall with big washers on the outside, to resist pulling forces. It will have to pull the wall down to come off....
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/39371800735_21bb3c200e.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/39371800735_21bb3c200e.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/22Z9LEB ]Stall bars[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
So the 4 expanding jobbies holding my bike rack (as in the wheel support car type) onto the wall are going to kill me at some point then?
If you're going into breeze block then plastic rawl plugs will be fine. I put some shelving up about 10 years ago and it's still solid as a rock and hold a hell of a lot of weight. Would easily hold a person's weight and the weight of a few bikes. Bikes are light really. Just make sure you put plenty of decent sized screws in to share and distribute the load and I always drill the hole a mm smaller than recommended to make sure you have a nice tight fit. The load will mostly be in shear anyway unless you have really deep shelves or there is something pulling on the shelves.
So the 4 expanding jobbies holding my bike rack (as in the wheel support car type) onto the wall are going to kill me at some point then?
I doubt they're heavy enough to be pulling out, or to do you mischief if you're unlucky enough to be stood under them when they do.
The issue with breeze blocks (the compacted granular type as opposed to cast concrete) is they break down, each individual particle dislodges very easily from the block as a whole and it doesn't take much for your lovely tight plug to be not very tight at all. Static loads are not too much of a problem, a moderate dynamic load will very quickly dislodge a plug.
Horses for courses really. I've a 2100 x 600 shelf supported on 6mm screws into 10mm plas plugs holding 50mm timber to 2 sides, and a full depth triangular bracket to the third edge. Its 22mm chip flooring (that i had left from boarding the loft) and dips noticeably on the front edge under significant weight (50kg or more mid shelf does it). I wouldn't stand or walk on it. I'd happily put a couple of hundred kg on the shelf but sure as heck not at a single point on the board, nor would i be happy putting a moving load on it because the plugs won't stay put in the wall. A moving load would be m8 rod through the breeze block secured to steel plate behind, as i say though, I'm over cautious.
I dont fancy racking as I'm trying to get stuff off the floor and above head height.
I like the idea of struts with shelf brackets in. I have some of these Screwfix brackets I could use with struts or I could make some with wood :
https://www.screwfix.com/p/hi-load-mitred-bracket-79kg-white-350-x-350mm-10-pack/56023
Those will take the weight no trouble, the issue is how big your shelf will be on top of those, 350mm projection leaves a lot of unsupported shelf if it's big enough to get you and or a bike on.
For just stuff proper rawl plugs should be fine (though even "heavy duty" brackets tend to have piddly screw holes) if you intend to stand/walk on it i personally wouldn't risk it.
Re racking there's no need to have a bottom bit, just a couple of small supports either end, think mezzanine not shelf.
Expanding jobbies?
In Scotland that sounds like something you’d want to avoid…
[titter] expanding jobbies [/titter]
Well sometimes there's not other explaination unless someone is built like a snake...
how wide is the shelf? i would have thought that you could construct a skeleton of scaffold easily and cheaply (which would just involve one leg at each end down to the floor, or possibly one in the middle depending on the span) then lay loft boards or similar on top. Cheap, quick and easy,and no worries about wall strength..
I’ve used Timco easy drive screws to good effect - just pick the right length, drill a 6mm hole in blockwork / brick and then screw it straight in with a decent electric drill / driver and the supplied star drive drill bit. They don’t need any kind of rawplug and seem to be extremely good at staying put.
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Timco-Multi-fix---7-5-x-180mm-Pack-of-100/p/138596
Resin and threaded bar.
Garage is approx 5.5m long and I'm hoping to build the shelf/platform/balcony/mezzanine the whole length. There is a single breezeblock pier in the middle which I could lay a joist across.
The above screwfix brackets are in the walls currently as shelves (not the full length of the garage), they have a load of weight on them and I have stood on them BUT I dont trust them!.
I was planning on doing half the length of the garage at a time in my normal bodge it up and hope it works style. STW hive mind makes me think to do it properly. The breezeblocks do seem especially shite!
I think the struts idea is a good un and I'm assuming brackets into wooden struts will be better than into the walls right? I know the struts have to be screwed into the wall but I assume forces will be spread etc.
Might have a look for bigger brackets or think about making some out of wood that are kind of integral to the strut.
Also drilling right through walls at either end is possible so M8 rod could happen though it wouldnt look nice on the outside of the garage.
Oh yeah the garage is on a slope which complicates struts/shelves and everything
Thanks for all the suggestions