[Closed] Wales in lockdown for 2 weeks again

😞

Been in Powys this last weekend*. Stopped at a pub on Saturday night and the landlady was saying that they were expecting a full lockdown come Friday and that transport companies had been told to prepare for this but the hospitality sector had heard nothing.

It will be interesting to see whether full lockdown works better than the tiered approach but sadly the flip side for one is that there's the probability that increased numbers will become ill or die.

*low incidence area and we live in a similarly low incidence area. Very limited close contact with locals and what did take place followed current best procedures/guidance/rules.

How will help if rUK don’t do the same? Surely once the restrictions are lifted the visitors will return and the infection rate rise?

Gatherings are banned yet the kids will be back in school whilst everything is shut?

A Welsh lockdown is "urgently" needed - but it can wait until the end of the week 🤷🏻‍♂️

Political posturing at the expense of the Welsh people.
Vast areas of Wales are hardly affected by CV and should have been left out.
No idea what Drakeford is going to say when the infection rates inevitably rise again when the lockdown is eventually eased.

Surely once the restrictions are lifted the visitors will return and the infection rate rise?

The restriction on people moving between high rate areas in England and Wales will stay after the lockdown - I actually think this is a good idea.

No idea what Drakeford is going to say when the infection rates inevitably rise again when the lockdown is eventually eased.

He will, quite correctly, say that he contained the increase for two weeks.

A Welsh lockdown is “urgently” needed – but it can wait until the end of the week

Because the Govt(s) also get slated for not giving folk/business/schools etc any notice of changes. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I believe (TiRed might confirm when he's back from work) that the short "circuit breaker" lockdowns are intended to provide a reset to the rates, not back to zero but to a level that systems and facilities can cope. Infection rates increase again over time and you repeat the circuit breaker thus providing another reset. You end up with a saw-tooth profile of infection rates over time hopefully with the peaks being fairly constant.

In theory this is what the English 3 tier system is meant to do but at a more local level.

Of course this is very crude A/B testing and I wouldn't like to be making those decisions but it's what Drakeford and other leaders were elected to do and are paid to do.

Looking at the figures, Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion, Powys and Gwynedd could stay on "alert" while the rest of Wales are under lockdown. Sort of a mid-way strategy if you like.

As for notice - read the first paragraph of my first reply on this thread, businesses have been given very strong indication that this was going to happen so they had time to prepare. Big integrated systems like transport can't just be stopped on a whim, workers have to get back home, equipment safely shut down, etc.

...and then what?
Edit: it seems very harsh to penalise everyone when the vast majority of the infections are in the South and NE.

it seems very harsh to penalise everyone when the vast majority of the infections are in the South and NE.

It is much easier for a country to all follow the same rule and also stops all the "this is not fair" bullshit that we have seen with areas going into tier 3.
Hospitals are already filling back up so breaks in infection rises need to be put in to give people the best chance of getting treatment when they became seriously ill.

Yep - meant to be going on Monday for a few nights in a motorhome as a 'well done' to the kids for navigating the first half term at secondary school without drama.

Arse.

Edit: it seems very harsh to penalise everyone when the vast majority of the infections are in the South and NE.

He was asked at the end of the press briefing about that, the short answer is numbers as rising in the rural areas too.

As it was back in Spring, it's easy to look as Powys, Pembrokeshire etc and think "oh numbers are so low, why worry" the problem is that they've only got the medical infrastructure to match their sparse populations. In normal times patients can be shipped to other parts of Wales to make room, but they're filling to.

No idea what Drakeford is going to say when the infection rates inevitably rise again when the lockdown is eventually eased.

He actually doesn't expect numbers to fall during the lock-down period, the usual lag will mean the numbers will fall a week or so later.

It's not a cure/fix, it's about keeping the projections below NHS capacity. He's following the science, 2 weeks now, keeps ICU numbers below capacity, until Jan anyway. Admittedly this is in stark contrast to Boris's "Blitz spirit, stiff upper lip, waffle waffle waffle" followed by a lot of constantly u-turned rules designed to allow him to blame the English People when it all goes wrong.

As it was back in Spring, it’s easy to look as Powys, Pembrokeshire etc and think “oh numbers are so low, why worry” the problem is that they’ve only got the medical infrastructure to match their sparse populations. In normal times patients can be shipped to other parts of Wales to make room, but they’re filling to.

My parents live in Powys and their nearest hospitals are all in Gwent and Merthyr Vale. The nearest Powys one is 40 miles away and tiny. Small increases in the numbers in rural areas have the same or larger effects than those in urban areas.

circuit breakers are supposed to bring the R rate under 1 but only work if the R is just above 1. jason leitch gives a decent explanation of it somewhere but in relation to scotland

How will help if rUK don’t do the same?

It won't - but the WG doesn't control the rest of the UK. And the leadership is quite different so they have come to a different conclusion. However scientists have gone on record urging the circuit breaker idea so maybe it will happen.

How will help if rUK don’t do the same?

It'll help Wales.

Firstly, it closes Wales to the rest of the UK for the last major Tourism week of the year, Oct Half-Term.

Also, the local lockdowns aren't going to be lifted at the end of it, so it'll only be 'business travel' to our major population centres post-fire break, which you'd hope by now would be 'Covid Friendly'.

More fundamentally though, look at the figures. We're taking measures in Wales to try to minimise the damage and even our worst hit areas wouldn't make the top 50 in the UK, even on a per-capita basis. The infection rate in same parts of the UK is already higher than the Peak in April.

It put Wales in a position to have lessor restrictions down the road, when England inevitably starts to run out of hospital beds and has to have a open-ended national lock-down.

We've not been able to use our static caravan since end of September. That's now another 2 months lost of the season - only had 3 months use of it this year. The site owner isn't bothered as he's had all his cash. Might be a different story if we are still not allowed to travel come March when the bills are due.

Due to go on holiday to Pembrokeshire on Friday for a long weekend, this was the last chance of a break this year with The Wife restricted to school holidays were she can take time off work.

Everything else planned this year has been pretty much cancelled or curtailed. But I do understand why the Welsh Government has taken this step. It won’t be popular but at least a tough decision has been made, rather than the sand and head interface that continues in London, “errr, waffle, waffle, common sense!”

I haven't been able to find the actual legislation yet (maybe it isn't published). But my reading of the faqs is that I can now go outside the county during bike or foot exercise that starts from home. (But I can't drive anywhere, even within the county, unless it is for a permitted reason.) This is assuming that the new rules replace the current county-level ones. Which is quite a big deal for us Cardiff peeps.

ETA link to the faqs

I haven’t been able to find the actual legislation yet (maybe it isn’t published). But my reading of the faqs is that I can now go outside the county during bike or foot exercise that starts from home. (But I can’t drive anywhere, even within the county, unless it is for a permitted reason.) This is assuming that the new rules replace the current county-level ones. Which is quite a big deal for us Cardiff peeps.

AFAIK all the new Circuit Break regs are in addition to any existing ones.

So yeah, I'll be riding from Llandaff to Forest Fawr and back a lot solo for the nest few weeks. I've just spunked my Nectar points on some cheap wireless headphones...

the short “circuit breaker” lockdowns are intended to provide a reset to the rates

And hopefully a reset on people's behaviour as well, getting them to take it more seriously again.

Hope this places pressure on the UK Gov to do the same, and sharpish.

I am not one of the "it's all a hoax, stop lockdown" nutters, but I would like to see an analysis, which will have to be post-facto, to discover if lockdown has caused more deaths than it saved. Many life saving operations and treatments have been postponed, and there is always an inverse correlation between death rates and GDP. I know of at least two cases of people in retirement homes who, unable to see their nearest and deraest have given up and "turned their face to the wall" and died, I do know that "the singular of data is not anecdote", but effects such as this need to be taken into account too.

BTW I live in Wales and have hospital appointments coming up that have been postponed, fortunately not life saving.

Many life saving operations and treatments have been postponed

Without “lockdown” many more life saving operations and treatments would have been postponed. Without “protecting the NHS” the service it would have been providing non-covid patients this year would have been scaled back even more than it has been.

Possibly @P-Jay, but it is odd in that case that the faqs don't mention county boundaries, but say you can go as far as you like as long as you stay near home. Just got to wait for the actual regulations and see I guess.

Without “lockdown” many more life saving operations and treatments would have been postponed.

Evidence?

What evidence do you want? Hospitals have had to give over large areas and numbers of staff to provision for covid patients… and that’s with the measures we have taken to keep admissions for covid low. If we just let the virus take its course, more areas, staff and beds would have to be used for covid patients rather than timely elective surgery and other interventions for non-covid patients. Remember, covid patients and elective surgery patients absolutely must not be mixed, for obvious reasons. If you want evidence that contracting covid while recovering from other interventions or illnesses would result in poor outcomes… well, I hope there’s little data there, and segregation in healthcare settings has done its job.

Without “lockdown” many more life saving operations and treatments would have been postponed.

Probably, but I'd still like to see the analysis.

What evidence do you want?

What have you got?

What I can't understand is why they don't call it cheese on toast like everybody else.

What have you got?

Well, I can’t give you the results of any A-B testing, thank god. Think it through for yourself.

Well, I can’t give you any A-B testing, thank god. Think it through for yourself.

Just defend your statement; if you can. Or at least explain your thinking.
I'm not sure how you can know.

More covid patients means fewer resources for planned surgery and other interventions. What evidence do you want to support that statement? By all means argue why you think it is not the case.

Possibly @P-Jay, but it is odd in that case that the faqs don’t mention county boundaries

They do specifically say that the local restrictions still apply, and for us in Cardiff that means very limited riding.

@molgrips @greyspoke @P-jay "the faqs don’t mention county boundaries"

"They do specifically say that the local restrictions still apply, and for us in Cardiff that means very limited riding."

The latest FAQs imply to me that the local rules will cease and the new National rules will replace them:
"My area is currently subject to local restrictions – do these continue as well?
No – the circuit breaker lockdown will apply in the same way across Wales."
source

and

"Following the end of the firebreak, a new set of national rules will be introduced, covering how people can meet and how the public sector and businesses operate."

I think it's been omitted that residents will be able to cross district boundaries for exercise, because the main message is you should stay at home except for essential journeys. You should exercise from your home, not even drive to walk the dog in the local park for instance, so for the vast majority of people they aren't going to cross a district boundary.

More covid patients means fewer resources for planned surgery and other interventions.

Except in some instances, it would be impossible for there to be fewer resources available because all non-covid related work was stopped.

Sure you could hypothesise that total numbers of interventions may end up being lower as a result, but we don't have the evidence to support that. And there are lots of folk that have suffered as a result of what would normally be considered routine work being stopped.

I didn't mean to start an argument, albeit very mild by STW standards, I think a full analysis, stating the assumptions made and margins of error, would be interesting. That said the margins of error might result in such a broad range that the result is meningless.

Its going to decimate a load of tourist places,as premises close and cant afford to reopen or take the welsh assembly handouts and then dont reopen, either way huge job losses.

Then add in all the tourist static caravan sites, where owners pay a fee early next year,if they cant afford it,lots of statics are going to be empty looking for a buyer at lower costs as well as site owners looking to hold them to ransom till they get paid ground rents etc.

Add in all the large hotels and Band bs currently not occupied and being forced to close and return customers deposits/payments its going to be a huge cash flow problem for them.

@konagirl

I think it’s been omitted that residents will be able to cross district boundaries for exercise, because the main message is you should stay at home except for essential journeys. You should exercise from your home, not even drive to walk the dog in the local park for instance, so for the vast majority of people they aren’t going to cross a district boundary.

Well not for a considerable chunk of those living in suburban Cardiff and the wider conurbation, which includes parts of the unitary counties of Cardiff, the Vale of Glamorgan, Rhondda Cynod Taff, Caerphilly and Newport. It actually is a big deal for many people, even if you take a conservative view of what staying "near home" means. Well ridden/trod routes criss-cross the Caerphilly boundary, for example.

I've re-read it all to make sure I'm understanding it right but there doesn't seem to be a restriction on how far you go with your exercise, just that you shouldn't drive anywhere to start it. Ride from your door and you can ride for as long as you can, even twice a day. So you could ride along the Taff Trail all the way into the Beacons and back without breaking a single rule. The rule of not crossing county boundaries is being lifted so that opens up quite a few more routes for me all within 10 miles of home. Basically the same as back in April/May.

Unlike back in March, there will be no limit to how many times you can leave the house to exercise or how far you can run, cycle, walk or jog, or to where - as local lockdown boundaries have now ended.

But exercising with others, such as running and cycling clubs, will not be allowed, and you should start your exercise from home.

People are being asked not to drive anywhere to do sport as exercise, unless they have specific health reasons, and people are banned from driving "significant distances" to get to mountains, beaches and beauty spots"

That's from the BBC

And there are lots of folk that have suffered as a result of what would normally be considered routine work being stopped.

Very true. And even more routine work would have been stopped if we hadn’t taken the measures we have this year to reduce the number of covid patients. You can’t let covid patients mix with people having elective surgery, or getting treatment for any other serious condition. You can’t magic away the ongoing NHS staffing crisis. Fail to control the virus and you cripple the NHS and its ability to treat people with other needs.

@reluctantjumper - the faqs also say "the nearer you stay to your home, the better". This can be reconciled with "go as far as you want" if you do lots of laps rather than one big loop.

Don't worry, I wouldn't do a massive ride as they do ask “the nearer you stay to your home, the better”. It's not a rule per se but does come under Life Rule No.1, one I definitely won't be breaking. If I can get a solid 1.5-2hrs most days outside on the bike away from others I'll be able to get through without going mad.

I am assuming a 1-2hr loop from home would be OK as well @reluctantjumper. I can stay within ~40mins from home and visit some nice roads/trails, being able to nip across the border into Caerphilly (and Newport on the road) opens up a lot possibilities. Enough to keep me occupied anyhow.

My youngest son's girlfriend, who is 20, can't get a consultant appointment because of Covid. So her sacrifice, which might affect her quality of life for another 50 or more years, benefits people in their seventies and eighties.

Maybe the cost-benefit analysis has been done, if so great, let's publish it. Otherwise I'm going to assume it's b.s.

I’ve re-read it all to make sure I’m understanding it right but there doesn’t seem to be a restriction on how far you go with your exercise, just that you shouldn’t drive anywhere to start it.

I think it's changed as I'm sure it explicitly said that the local restrictions applied on top of the national ones - and it came up straight away when I googled it at lunchtime.

In any case, I've just read on the local rules that there is leeway if you have a 'reasonable excuse' and I would imagine that the fact that loads of local riding and walking crosses into Caerphilly by trivial amounts would constitute a reasonable excuse. Half of Castell Coch is in Caerphilly; the Whips car park is in Caerphilly, the top of Cefn Onn is in Caerphilly...

And even more routine work would have been stopped if we hadn’t taken the measures we have this year to reduce the number of covid patients.

It doesn't have to be binary - and yet for a large part of this year it has been for some interventions. Of course you can't let covid patients mix with those undergoing treatment for other issues but thankfully we have multiple hospitals.

It shouldn't be a blanket either / or. We need a measured approach to dealing with covid and preventing other deaths with a return to the provision of other interventions.

Its a complex problem requiring complex answers, not, well-intentioned, dogma.

 benefits people in their seventies and eighties.

Aye, because no one younger is dying or is going to have to live for 50 years with the after-effects of Covid.

Its a complex problem requiring complex answers, not, well-intentioned, dogma.

The dogma is that the unfortunate and damaging effects on non-COVID care was somehow a ‘cost’ of measures designed to control the COVID outcome. This is not the case. It is a cost of us living with COVID, and a cost that has been reduced by preventing COVID spreading at the rate it would have if left unchecked. The NHS simply can not cope with the numbers of covid patients that there would be if we didn’t act to restrict the virus.

Otherwise I’m going to assume it’s b.s.

I suggest listening to the accounts of people that worked in hospitals during the first peak of the epidemic, and are now dealing with preparing for the next one.

I suggest listening to the accounts of people that worked in hospitals during the first peak of the epidemic, and are now dealing with preparing for the next one.

I seem to recall people up here describing empty hospitals waiting for an influx that thankfully never came. Surely then some elective work could have continued in until wards were needed or admission rates increased? I'm not suggesting it could, there may well be practical reasons why it couldn't but it surely isn't beyond the wit of man to come up with something better than just sitting and hoping it goes away? If anyone wants to reply to this they should probably do so on the main thread, this isn't really a Welsh thing.

I am assuming a 1-2hr loop from home would be OK as well @reluctantjumper. I can stay within ~40mins from home and visit some nice roads/trails, being able to nip across the border into Caerphilly (and Newport on the road) opens up a lot possibilities. Enough to keep me occupied anyhow.

I've still got my map I made from the original lockdown with all the trails and roads marked out, handy to keep me riding different ways round and keeping things varied. Far too easy to fall into riding the same loop over and over!

I’ve just read on the local rules that there is leeway if you have a ‘reasonable excuse’ and I would imagine that the fact that loads of local riding and walking crosses into Caerphilly by trivial amounts would constitute a reasonable excuse. Half of Castell Coch is in Caerphilly; the Whips car park is in Caerphilly, the top of Cefn Onn is in Caerphilly…

Even under the current restrictions I've been riding up to Tongwynlais and along the ridgeway and down to Llwyn Celyn car park, I haven't dropped down towards Caerphilly or the Van Road area as I asked a police officer who was up by Castell Coch and he said as long as you drop down 'your' side of the ridge he wouldn't have an issue for solo riders. I'm pretty sure there was a piece on the BBC website that said that county border restrictions were being replaced with inside the Welsh border and staying close to home with no driving to exercise spots but that page has been updated and no longer says that. Will keep an eye on what the rules say as they refine them as I don't want to break them but also need to keep in mind my mental health. My temporary job finishes on Tuesday and I live alone so need to keep my mind fresh and stimulated to avoid any damage. There's only so many times I can research a dream build bike!

If the restrictions work along the same lines as the original lockdown rules then I should be fine even if this carries on right up until christmas.

So folk who were due to travel to Wales for their family holiday won't be able to, and inevitably they'll just go somewhere else. So this runs the risk of shifting the "issue" to another region, north yorks or Cumbria for example, with equally as over burdened hospitals due to a current rise in Covid and the fact the health service is already at breaking point... Obviously no expert, but isn't a more holistic approach and scientific modelling on people's behaviours and covid spread needed to fully estimate the impact of regional "circuit breakers" and tier restrictions required?

^ yes, but UK government won't countenance such a thing as Starmer suggested it and loads of folk dying is more important than admitting he was right

I seem to recall people up here describing empty hospitals waiting for an influx that thankfully never came. Surely then some elective work could have continued in until wards were needed or admission rates increased? I’m not suggesting it could, there may well be practical reasons why it couldn’t but it surely isn’t beyond the wit of man to come up with something better than just sitting and hoping it goes away?

Indeed

Starmer suggested it

He didn’t. Sage did. Ages ago now.

I seem to recall people up here describing empty hospitals

Lucky them. Do people think that Hospitals could just turn their quarantine measures on/off over night?

I don't know which was why I asked if there was a practical reason why they couldn't continue a limited service. Do you know or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

My area is currently subject to local restrictions – do these continue as well?
No – the circuit breaker lockdown will apply in the same way across Wales.

This is from the faqs. The "not going out of the county" rule is part of the local restrictions, which are not, according to this, continuing.

Surely then some elective work could have continued in until wards were needed or admission rates increased?

Mrs Nobeer unit (Macular degeneration) continued on right through, as did many other elective units, they were down to about 75% numbers, due to the obvious extra checks etc, and a number of their patients shielding.

Her pal in a covid ward who's husband is a doctor in a Glasgow hospital covid ward certainly weren't waiting on folk, sounded horrendous.

Yes, it didn't get as bad as some predicted, but it's not a black and white issue.

@greyspoke - I think the reasoning being that as you shouldnt be getting in the car you wouldn't be likely to be leaving your local area anyway.
However the wording is 'we ask' people not to drive to do things like exercise. I think they should either mandate not driving to excersize or keep the local boundaries in place so its harder for the ruels to be bent. Personally, not driving for recreation is a bit of a pain - but it is only for two weeks

We were heading over for half term - sad that we can't but not the biggest disaster for us. Real shame for the businesses that depend on tourist footfall, but I applaud the Welsh government's stance thst the bigger picture take precedence.

Mrs Nobeer unit (Macular degeneration) continued on right through, as did many other elective units, they were down to about 75% numbers, due to the obvious extra checks etc, and a number of their patients shielding.

Her pal in a covid ward who’s husband is a doctor in a Glasgow hospital covid ward certainly weren’t waiting on folk, sounded horrendous.

Yes, it didn’t get as bad as some predicted, but it’s not a black and white issue.

Thanks, it may have been yourself I was thinking of. Happy to hear from those in the know. FWIW we know a nurse in the ITU up at the QE so know it wasn't reflected everywhere.

This is the first year in 30 that I've not been to Wales. Miss it. Hope local businesses get the help they need to get though to next summer, and that we can visit on mass then...

We were heading over for half term – sad that we can’t but not the biggest disaster for us. Real shame for the businesses that depend on tourist footfall, but I applaud the Welsh government’s stance thst the bigger picture take precedence.

That rather depends on whether you believe that the bigger picture is better served by ruining the last chance the tourist sector had to make money this year and putting people off booking future holidays that may well be cancelled at short notice, or a few more dead boomers (and sadly a few vulnerable people).

Sons of bitches!

I was too busy looking at the trees to notice the forest!

It's not 2 weeks, it's 16 days, encompassing 3 weekends.

@ferrals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Welsh_principal_areas_by_population
There are tens of thousands of people in Cardiff who are a short ride/ decent walk from a county boundary. It does actually make a big difference if you live there.

ETA so I am lucky enough not to need to drive to be able to ride some decent trails and pleasant country roads. But almost all of my regular rides, even the short ones, cross into neighbouring counties.

a few more dead boomers

What's the opposite of virtue signalling?

There are tens of thousands of people in Cardiff who are a short ride/ decent walk from a county boundary. It does actually make a big difference if you live there.

Yep, went on a few rides as lockdown was easing that covered 3 counties, and one that covered 4, it wasn't even that long a ride really, easy enough to do on a 160mm FS with 2.4/2.5 tyres and I'm old and fat.

That rather depends on whether you believe that the bigger picture is better served by ruining the last chance the tourist sector had to make money this year and putting people off booking future holidays that may well be cancelled at short notice, or a few more dead boomers (and sadly a few vulnerable people).

They increased the support package too. We'll have to wait and see how effective that turns out to be.

I’m old and fat.

Just know that Gribs would throw you to the wolves.

What have you got?

Every year the NHS decides whether to suspend routine care based on levels of influenza. Think of the worst flu season you can imagine, and then some, for healthcare utilization. Sadly there is no redundancy built into the capacity - hence the decision is made. When all the HDU/ITU beds fill, normal operations are going to be postponed. That's no argument for more routine care, but if half your hospital new admissions need a chest CT, then there will be fewer CTs for the cancer patients. And so on...

Pharmacy is about the only thing that can continue unabated. Assuming the pharmacists aren't off sick!

Just know that Gribs would throw you to the wolves.

I'm not THAT old ha ha.

Actually i've got a Zoom call tomorrow that could see me part of a Covid Vaccine trail involving being infected with Covid.

Just know that Gribs would throw you to the wolves.

I'd just not yet again help boomers to the detriment of the younger generations. They always seem to want the government/society to take care of them/their problems but don't want to contribute. I know it's not true for the whole generation but the majority have acted that way.

I’d just not yet again help boomers to the detriment of the younger generations. They always seem to want the government/society to take care of them/their problems but don’t want to contribute.

I'm sorry, what the **** is that about?

The vast majority of boomers are just people who've worked and have now retired. That's it. This idea of grasping monsters demanding things from us is ridiculous. When people say that 'boomers caused the housing crisis' they don't mean they literally planned it and are actively executing it.

The boomer generation has repeatedly benefitted from things and then repeatedly denied them to the following generations through their political choices. Stable jobs, pensions, education and training, social housing, secure rental accommodation etc. They're the first generation in history to actually make thing worse for those following them. That's without taking into account inflicting the shit show that is brexit on us.

Lockdowns hurt the young and are a very minor inconvenience to people who are retired.

The boomer generation has repeatedly benefitted from things and then repeatedly denied them to the following generations through their political choices. Stable jobs, pensions, education and training, social housing, secure rental accommodation etc. They’re the first generation in history to actually make thing worse for those following them. That’s without taking into account inflicting the shit show that is brexit on us.

Lockdowns hurt the young and are a very minor inconvenience to people who are retired

Ffs at least try and apply some critical thought to stuff you copy and paste

The boomer generation has repeatedly benefitted from things and then repeatedly denied them to the following generations through their political choices. Stable jobs, pensions, education and training, social housing, secure rental accommodation etc. They’re the first generation in history to actually make thing worse for those following them. That’s without taking into account inflicting the shit show that is brexit on us.

Lockdowns hurt the young and are a very minor inconvenience to people who are retired.

Can't argue with that

Can’t argue with that

Yep. It's spot on. My late teens, early 20s were great (albeit a while ago). I'm not sure I'd have been happy to give up a year of it to largely help a generation* that had repeatedly denied me the future they enjoyed. I expect I would, as most youngsters have done, but it is a big ask.

*I know it impacts a lot of other people too, just talking majorities.

I’m not sure I’d have been happy to give up a year of it to largely help a generation* that had repeatedly denied me the future they enjoyed.