[Closed] Vitamin D may prevent ... New Scientist article

requirement of vitamin D for the immune system has been known for a number of years, It's required for the activation of T-cells.

In b4 #youcangeteverythingyouneedfromabalanceddiet.

jimjam - I always said that until I was found to be seriously vit b deficient

you can get everything you need from a balanced diet* - its what the words mean- however few of us have one and many may need supplements

* balanced diet
noun
a diet consisting of a variety of different types of food and providing adequate amounts of the nutrients necessary for good health.

you can get everything you need from a balanced diet

Not necessarily. Only if your body can extract all the vitamins, which some can't e.g. my father has to have B12 vit injections as he can't absorb it from food (apparently not that uncommon to develop these sorts of problems with age).

you can get everything you need from a balanced diet

Technically he can get it he just cannot absorb it so its not really the diets fault.

EXITING THREAD - please discuss the issue rather than this sidebar O have no agenda here other than saying what the term meant

I read something a few weeks back that in Scotland at least you don't get any vitamin d from the sun between October and March (or thereabouts)and we should all be taking supplements during this period.

That lunchtime I bought some vitamin d and have been taking it daily since. After a week or so I did start to feel noticeably better. Whether that's in my mind or not I don't know, but I've never been compelled to take any supplements before and I generally avoid medication where possible.

[img] [/img]

Creatine for cognition ay?

Don't wish GPs to be bombarded with test requests so home testing available here:

http://www.vitamindtest.org.uk/

can't see Chia seeds on that chart. I had a bar today with some in and haven't had a cold since.

Balaned diet [b]and[/b] sunshine ! Vit D quite commonly prescribed ime in France.

Vit D supplements very common up here in Norway - its impossible to get enough from sunlight the whole year. And with the health warnings about skin cancer if you go out in the sun without sun cream, Vit D supplements are even more important

Been taking vitamin d for the last couple of winters in Glasgow , 12 hour shifts means no sun for 4days and no real guarantee of seeing it on my days off either . I have had fewer colds and generally felt better since taking it and with a toddler bringing home all kind of germs from nursery I haven't suffered nearly as much as some parents I know . Could be nonsense , my diet has certainly improved from what it was so I would hope that has helped to .

I started taking vit D supplements last winter when my GP told me I had a deficiency after some routine blood work.

10 micrograms a day with 500mg vit C and I feel like I have much more energy than I used to this time of year. I also haven't had a cold this winter while the Mrs has had three.

I haven't ruled out the placebo effect but considering the low cost of these supplements I'm not fussed about how they work.

I have regular b12 injections too as my body cannot absorb it even if i ate b12 rich foods. Shows up on blood tests and i certainly feel better for it, low b12 is associated with tiredness if anyone is struggling get tested.

I started taking Vit D about a month ago.Within a few days I began to get minor sharp pains firing off in random parts of my body. Not massively painful, more like very localised cramp. I didn't connect it with the Vit D and actually went to the doc who said it was due to stress. I began to wonder about the Vit D and stopped taking it. The pains disappeared after a couple of days. Possibly coincidence of course.

That snake oil chart needs to be viewed with some skepticism. Magnesium, for example, is well researched and strongly correlated with prevention of headaches, yet in the chart, which is presumably treating it as an all and sundry supplement gives it a poor rating.

And the balanced diet is simply an apology for mediocrity from dieticians. Dieticians are still popping up on the telling to push theories that have been comprehensively debunked.

I can't be arsed debunking the dieticians more fully just now because I have a fad meal waiting to me eaten (no grains, shock horror, how will I get energy without carbohydrates?!).

I can't source the factoid - so view with suspicion - but in parts of the USA where industrialised crop farming is at its peak the soil is so depleted, you would need to consume the equivalent of 27,000k calories of "balanced diet" to get your RDAs across the board.

Eat less healthful foods (aka, sugar, grains) sparsely and eat healthful foods (veg) to your heart's content.

That's an interesting chart, but the 'worth it' line is a bit puzzling. General multivitamins are cheap as chips and include vitamin C and B6 which are supposedly below that line - but that assumes a certain amount of affordability. And if it's worth taking D then you might as well take it in a multi-vitamin, surely?

but in parts of the USA where industrialised crop farming is at its peak the soil is so depleted, you would need to consume the equivalent of 27,000k calories of "balanced diet" to get your RDAs across the board.

I have read similar. Apparently the nutrient values for foods were calculated in the 50s, and 60 more years of highly intensive farming has depleted the soil nutrient content so much that there's far less in the food.

Eat less healthful foods (aka, sugar, grains) sparsely and eat healthful foods (veg) to your heart's content.

Unfortunate choice of phrase. Vegetables never make my heart content, but chocolate and sweets do!

This is totally subjective and may be purely down to placebo effect but I have been supplementing my balls off (it's a medical term) and I feel a big improvement recently.

I was constantly stiff, sore and tired so I just decided to load up on vitamin d, c, zinc, magnesium, glucosamine, fish oil bcaa's and a little creatine. Aches and pains have really tailed off, I haven't touched a painkiller in weeks and I'm feeling a lot stronger.

Me too, jimjam: whether it's the placebo effect or just wishful thinking, I'll carry on until it stops working.

Similar to jimjam - I start feeling quite a bit better when I have the multivits. 2p a tablet, it's worth it.

I'm not sure what in them is helping, it could just be the vit-D, but who cares?

General multivitamins are cheap as chips and include vitamin C and B6 which are supposedly below that line - but that assumes a certain amount of affordability. And if it's worth taking D then you might as well take it in a multi-vitamin, surely?

I think the main issue with most cheap multivitamins is the form of the vitamin included having a low viability. Probably why magnesium is low on that chart, most magnesium supplements have a rubbish absorption rate

Define cheap.

One would expect Waitrose tabs to be the cheapest decent ones but I dunno.

I'm not sure what in them is helping, it could just be the vit-D, but who cares?

I'd be surprised if the quantity of Vit-D in your average multivitamin would be enough to make a difference.

The type you take is important too. I take 2 of these a day

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vitamin-D3-5000iu-with-K2-MK7-100mcg-Tablets-Bone-and-Joint-Support-/221766895109?

General multivitamins are cheap as chips

There are a number of studies showing that excess of some vitamins increases mortality, so personally I'd only take the minimum extra necessary e.g. Vitamin D.

Finally, last year, a Cochrane review found that “beta carotene and vitamin E seem to increase mortality, and so may higher doses of vitamin A.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/dont-take-your-vitamins.html

NB That was in 2013, but read similar articles more recently.

maybe i'm just a freak but i dont seem to get colds/flus like others do. i've never had time off work through them. i dont feel that bad when i get a cold. I dont think ive had flu? typically have great constitution.
There are probably a 100 small things that might be the reason why this is but i'm positive its not just vit D the sun or a tablet.
What i'm saying is dont just think a problem has 1 cause. In fact think the opposite and think if you do x, y & z the problem and the cause are irrelevant.

Err, so what are you lot taking then?

What makes a good multivitamin?

Shouldn't be taking anything without knowing your levels. Private testing has come down considerably in price and home testing is a convenient option.

I'd stay away from multivitamins, in any case you need to go for decent quality brands so that means avoid supermarkets, Boots, Holland & Barrett etc as they tend to be full of nasties. But really without testing there's no point in buying anything.

IANAD.

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Category:Nutrition,_Vitamins,_Minerals_and_Diets

cinnamon_girl - Member

Shouldn't be taking anything without knowing your levels. Private testing has come down considerably in price and home testing is a convenient option.

I'd stay away from multivitamins, in any case you need to go for decent quality brands so that means avoid supermarkets, Boots, Holland & Barrett etc as they tend to be full of nasties. But really without testing there's no point in buying anything.

What in your opinion is a decent quality brand then? Boots and Holland Barret are expensive. Any more expensive and I could supplement with smoked salmon and sirloin steak.

What nasties are in the supermarket ones???

poah - Member
requirement of vitamin D for the immune system has been known for a number of years, It's required for the activation of T-cells.

Woah! Hang on there, I've seen Resident Evil! 😯

What in your opinion is a decent quality brand then? Boots and Holland Barret are expensive. Any more expensive and I could supplement with smoked salmon and sirloin steak.

Solgar, Jarrow Formulas, Lambert, BioCare, Swanson.

Please don't assume that the mighty A is good value, this company I find to be very competitive:

http://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/

For example, 240 days supply of Vit D3 softgels for £9.95 so cheaper than salmon and steak:

http://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/now-foods-vitamin-d-3-2000-iu-240-softgels/111689

What nasties are in the supermarket ones???

It's the fillers.

Disclaimer: I'm just a pita patient and not a doctor. 😉

I started taking Vit D about a month ago.Within a few days I began to get minor sharp pains firing off in random parts of my body. Not massively painful, more like very localised cramp. I didn't connect it with the Vit D and actually went to the doc who said it was due to stress. I began to wonder about the Vit D and stopped taking it. The pains disappeared after a couple of days. Possibly coincidence of course.

Was it D3? How many iu? Are you usually sensitive to medication?

[quote=cinnamon_girl ]

What nasties are in the supermarket ones???

What do they use as a filler and what's wrong with it?

[b]scotroutes[/b] this may help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excipient

https://draxe.com/4-dangerous-and-common-vitamin-fillers-you-must-avoid/

Edit: just to add that vit d is available as an oral spray.

Ooh did I see Dr Myhill linked to above?

Awooga, Awooga, Quack Klaxon!

http://www.skepticat.org/2014/01/dr-sarah-myhill-exploited-patients-lack-of-medical-knowledge-by-arousing-ill-found-fears-for-their-health-say-gmc/

Seems a lovely person.

[quote=cinnamon_girl ]scotroutes this may help:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excipient
> https://draxe.com/4-dangerous-and-common-vitamin-fillers-you-must-avoid/
The wikipedia link explains why they are used and the second one suggests some additives might be "bad", though neglects to provide any evidence and is just generic. How do you find out what's in (e.g.) the Boots tablets?

It also talks about colours and hydrogenated fats. But vitamin pills are really really small. So the amount of anything is pretty tiny.

Plus that's a US article. My Tesco pills are dark brown, I doubt they have coloured them that colour. The waitrose ones do have TiO2 in them though, some way down the list of ingredients.

[b]scotroutes[/b] need a magnifying glass to read mine! In my D3 is extra virgin olive oil but the softgel capsule contains gelatin, glcycerin, purified water.

Boots Bioglan (£9.99 for 1 month's supply):

Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Gelling Agent (Gelatine), Acidity Regulator (Citric Acid), Lemon Flavour, Colour (Curcumin), Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol)

Ooh did I see Dr Myhill linked to above?

Awooga, Awooga, Quack Klaxon!

http://www.skepticat.org/2014/01/dr-sarah-myhill-exploited-patients-lack-of-medical-knowledge-by-arousing-ill-found-fears-for-their-health-say-gmc/

Seems a lovely person.

Oh yes, the GMC love Dr M! Actually they hate anyone who thinks outside the box hence her being hauled up so many times.

Magnesium Stearate

This is one of the most controversial topics in the supplement world today. Many argue that this toxic ingredient shouldn’t be added to vitamins and is of serious health consequence. On the other side some say that it has not been proven by the scientific community to cause serious health problems in humans – yet.

[b]Again, I urge you to remember that many times the science to back what we suspect can lag behind[/b]. It’s vital to make your own informed choices.

Well taking cheap supermarket multivits some days, Dunns River Nurishment (which I'm sure is really really healthy, but I love it after a hard ride) avoiding quackery and ill proven home test kits here, I had noticed I appear to be feeling strong and have been fighting infections better recently.

I've also I think been managing more sleep, so without a double blind trial on myself I have no evidence. Apart from the double blind trial that says the vitamin D in the multivitamins and the Nurishment will probably help me.

If you haven't tried Dunn's River Nurishment, you should. The best way is to down a full can and see how you feel.

Oh yes, the GMC love Dr M! Actually they hate anyone who thinks outside the box hence her being hauled up so many times.

Personally I'm very happy with them to be hard on practitioners "thinking outside the box", that's what properly trained medical researchers are for.

mogrim - Member
Oh yes, the GMC love Dr M! Actually they hate anyone who thinks outside the box hence her being hauled up so many times.
Personally I'm very happy with them to be hard on practitioners "thinking outside the box", that's what properly trained medical researchers are for.

POSTED 29 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Pretty much my thinking as well.

Actually they hate anyone who thinks outside the box

In this context, thinking outside the box is just speculation without sufficient evidence.

And as above - everyone has to be hard on everyone else in the scientific world, especially where health and lives are at stake. That's how we get good science.

The infographic geoffj posted has been updated: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/snake-oil-supplements/

On that link you can select only vitamins. You'll then notice that some vitamins appear on it more than once, some above and below the 'worth it' line. Then you'll discover that they are rated worth it or not in relation to specific things like cancer or immune system, based on specific studies.

So they are saying that no, niacin does not help with heart disease. But the 'not worth it' rating then only applies to those seeking to take it to help with heart disease. If you are deficient in it, then it surely is worth it. Same goes for any of the vitamins.

The problem with rating something generically using studies is that studies address a very specific question like 'does this affect X' rather than 'is this generally good for you' or 'should I take this?'

I started taking Vit D about a month ago.Within a few days I began to get minor sharp pains firing off in random parts of my body. Not massively painful, more like very localised cramp. I didn't connect it with the Vit D and actually went to the doc who said it was due to stress. I began to wonder about the Vit D and stopped taking it. The pains disappeared after a couple of days. Possibly coincidence of course.
Was it D3? How many iu? Are you usually sensitive to medication?

CG they were Sainsbo's one-a-day D3 tablets. 25 ug. I don't think I'm sensitive to anything at all 😐

jambalaya - Member
Balaned diet and sunshine ! Vit D quite commonly prescribed ime in France

for where the sun don't shine i guess? are the french still over enthusiastic about suppositories?

youngest takes steroids - supposed just to replace natural production but doesn't quite balance and is a bit immune suppressed - blood tests often show low vit D

Personally I'm very happy with them to be hard on practitioners "thinking outside the box", that's what properly trained medical researchers are for.

Dr M is a leading authority on CFS/ME and has authored research papers, written books etc. From what I understand there is little in the way of 'conventional' help available if you're unfortunate enough to have one of these conditions. I know there are some on here who have/had these conditions so would be useful if they're able to comment.

I would also say that 'evidence-based medicine' can be thoroughly misleading in that research papers can be ignored by those who wish to maintain the status quo. This happens in the thyroid world where egos and a refusal to shift position are more important than patients' health. I'll stop there!

And as above - everyone has to be hard on everyone else in the scientific world, especially where health and lives are at stake. That's how we get good science.

I disagree molgrips, sorry. It's all about money, Pharma only fund research where they know that the findings will fit their agenda.

Currently reading this by Professor Peter Gotzsche, a terrifying but essential read:

https://wordery.com/deadly-medicines-and-organised-crime-peter-c-gotzsche-9781846198847?cTrk=NDAzMTYyNDl8NThhODFlNzlkOWViMzoxOjI6NThhODFlM2Q4ODVmNDEuMzgzODg3OTA6ODkxNjJjYzc%3D

CG they were Sainsbo's one-a-day D3 tablets. 25 ug. I don't think I'm sensitive to anything at all

Could be worth trying another make? Do you know your level? Perhaps if you're taking other medication there was a reaction.

Cinnamon girl- what do you mean by "Pharma only fund research where they know that the findings will fit their agenda."?

CG:

Pharma only fund research where they know that the findings will fit their agenda.

This is bolleaux. Pharmas fund research where they think that there is a need for an improved treatment, where they consider they cn provide that, and where they can make some money. It doesn't always work. Big pharma companies have spent billions on looking for Alzheimer treatments, so far without success. Merck stopped a Ph III trial on verubecestat only last week - that trial was running since 2012, and earlier development work for about 5 years before that.

I was recommended to take Vit D by my cancer consultant after prostate C treatment. He said that the evidence wasn't in his eyes, conclusive, but that it was sufficient for him to believe that his patients may benefit from it. So I've taken it through the winter for the past 4 or so years. Still no proof of anything, but no detected ill effects either, and still cancer free.

Have Big Pharma started researching antibiotics again, now that resistance is spreading against nearly all of the current range?

SOG, some have, yes. There are also several biotechs working on new antibiotics including RedX in Alderley, and university groups funded by industry.
The financial problem is that any new antibiotics will be the treatment of last resort (to stop resistance developing to the new drug), so sales will be very low which makes this an unattractive area to work in.
The FDA is considering incentives to get more companies interested in the area.

Yes they have, slowoldgit. I have been working on a couple in clinical development.
The problem is that new antibiotics against resistant organisms are kept for limited use to minimise development of resistance. Limited use means that they don't earn much money for the company that's spent tens of millions developing them.

Thanks, both. There was an article in New Scientist two or three weeks ago about Pharma companies giving up on Alzheimer's research, as you said above. I've seen comments about bacteria being found in the plaques of AD, not sure if it's proper peer-reviewed sourced, one would hope Pharma have seen the same.

I wish they could develop a good antidepressant, but that area is really tricky to study 🙁

are the french still over enthusiastic about suppositories?

There's nothing "over enthusiastic" about it, it's just that Brits have hang-ups about their arseholes, along with a few other things.

Suppositories can make perfect sense - fast direct absorption into the blood stream without causing an upset tummy.

It's certainly a very sensible way to take Voltaren, for example.

ernie, diclofenac (voltaren) can still irritate your stomach indirectly irrespective of being a suppository.

Voltaren suppositories can help massively. But I know that even the gel over a period of time can irritate the stomach.

It's all about money, Pharma only fund research where they know that the findings will fit their agenda.

Currently reading this by Professor Peter Gotzsche, a terrifying but essential read:

https://wordery.com/deadly-medicines-and-organised-crime-peter-c-gotzsche-9781846198847?cTrk=NDAzMTYyNDl8NThhODFlNzlkOWViMzoxOjI6NThhODFlM2Q4ODVmNDEuMzgzODg3OT

You are right that with big pharma "It's all about money." But...

It's important to recognize though that Gotzsche has not just written about the corrupt pharma industry but orthodox medicine in general (with their various NON-drug interventions and treatments).

As an example, Gotzsche has been a very prolific opponent of mammography. Besides the book "[url= http://www.supplements-and-health.com/mammograms.html ]The Mammogram Myth[/url]" by Rolf Hefti, Gotzsche's book "[url= http://amzn.to/2llhUh4 ]Mammography Screening: Truth, Lies and Controversy[/url]" are the only two really extensive, independent works on the deep fraud of mammography.

As such Gotzsche really exposes the business of conventional allopathic medicine and the medical establishment as highly criminal.

benzskit- what do you mean with "allopathy"? The opposite of homeopathy? Is homeopathy your alternative to conventional medicine?

benzskit- what do you mean with "allopathy"? The opposite of homeopathy? Is homeopathy your alternative to conventional medicine?

Sounds more like you're TRYING to pin me down on the idea that allopathy=the opposite of homeopathy rather than you trying to truly wanting to know the truth.

Because anyone can easily search for what "allopathy" is. And anyone who looks more closely will recognize that it is a misleading fact distortion to call allopathy "the opposite of homeopathy."

Your SEEMINGLY innocent sort of questions, or rather suggestive innuendoes, are typically used by dishonest members of the medical allopathy or their equally dishonest apologists to mitigate the public's awareness of the medical holocaust the allopathy business engages in year after year. Meaning criminal minds employ such bogus.

The psychology of propaganda recognizes these types of deceptive tactis as resorting to "damage control"...

Interesting 1st/2nd posts there benzskit. Welcome to the forum. What and where do you ride?

benzskit- you made a controversial post criticising conventional medicine and using the term "allopathy", which is not particularly an everyday word. I asked because I'm aware that some people use it to mean the opposite of homeopathy but other people have a different definition but I don't know what it is.
So don't come barging in here with challenging comments and then getting aggressive when you get asked a simple question.

In fact, having given it a little more thought, you are a very presumptuous person, benzskit!
I am generally in favour of conventional medicine, but there are aspects of it that I disagree with. Although they have their place, I think that pain medications and antidepressants are over-used, for example, with people then developing opioid addiction, or being left for decades on antidepressants, and some people with cardiovascular disease could ditch their drugs if they were to manage their condition through diet and exercise.