[Closed] VIRGIN TRAINS cancel all train monday and tuesday, due to strike action

Nice one. Poor ****ing families coming home from seeing family etc.

These pay demands- are they fair?

Scotrail and other TOC,S also abandoning passengers

NR and the Unions are still talking at present so there is hope that the industrial action will not go ahead.

I just hope that the Unions and NR Management are not political "willy waving" at present and are seriously talking as no one wants a strike.

The problem is that various NR directors have awarded themselves 40% pay rises, spend lots on flights, piss money away in waste and then tell the staff that you'll be getting no pay rise this year (its a £500 lump sum so £300 after tax and not pensionable).

NR has been nationalised on the quiet and you staff are now public servants who get squat.

abandoning passengers

Well in fairness they appear to be doing what they can with what limited resources they have, not sure you can really blame them for cancelling services. At least they're offering refunds, I was worried that my super cheap mega saver ticket would have a no refund for strikes clause, the refund pays for the bus ticket I've bought instead...

Going to London from Crewe on Tuesday morning. 🙁
Both me and the missis are union members though, so would be unfair to get too upset at workers exercising their right to withhold labour until they get a fair deal, 'cos £500 unpensionable sucks.

Will just have to drive and leave the car somewhere there's a bus.

Just £500? Nothing else at all?

RPI for following three years (which I don't have a problem with).

The really galling bit was the directors pay increases and the "well what do you expect you are public sector" now comment.

Just £500? Nothing else at all?

*or sir toppham hat or whatever he's called now adays

So everyone should be given bumper pay rises because some greedy twits in charge help themselves?

The people suffer because the staff aint getting a terrible wage I assume but want more cos they see someone taking more?

Seen the Council Leaders?!!

Slightly left of topic - does anyone know if this affects London Underground? Heathrow long term parking and tube into town is my current plan.

20 rather than 40% apparently, on top of salaries varying from £365000 to £675000 pa. Plus a preferential pension scheme. Which is all pretty restrained considering they used to expect 160% bonuses

("Outgoing chief executive David Higgins was paid a total of £863,000 in 2012-13 and still anticipates a deferred bonus of £577,000 to be paid out in 2015.")

I think it's one of those "we're all in it together" things.

The strike is between Network Rail who own and run most of the mainline rail network and the unions, London underground is a seperate entity and not part of the strike as yet.

It's not that Hora.

I'm a firm believer that from top to bottom everybody should get the same %, maybe even capped nearer the top to stop massive disparity and stop "butterfly" management dropping in for a few years and get massive pay rises before leaving.

Thanks Project. That's what I thought/hoped.

the underground and roads will be busy though, as peeps divert to other forms of transport

Fair point, but if it's a choice of it being slow or not bothering at all I'll take some delays.

Ming the masses suffer though. Why should the paying public suffer?

If it was safety related or unfair contracts fine. Exact level of rises though? I still havent had a raise in 5yrs. Im happy that I've got a job.

Linked to RPI- zero is not going to last is it.

I have absolutely no sympathy with the unions at all. You're going to cripple the entire UK rail network because you didn't get a £500 pay rise ? Jog on sunshine.

****s, the lot of them.

Ming the masses suffer though. Why should the paying public suffer?

If the public didn't notice the difference, then management are hardly likely to meet the unions' demands, are they?

surely a more effective way of making their point to management would be to operate trains as normal, but allow folk to get on and off without a ticket. Keeps Joe public onside, and hits the (private) company where it matters to them.

hora - Member
Why should the paying public suffer?

Why should the paying public suffer?

Because management are being unreasonable/unfair and after much (months of) negotiation have backed the unions into a corner where they have no option but to ballot staff to take industrial action.

It's not taken lightly and as always is a matter of last resort. Should it have to happen then hopefully it will add impetus, both public and political to both sides to resolve it.

Another reason to just potter about in the garden and then a big ride on monday before taking the fam to a local restaurant. Don't go anywhere near any motorways!

Because management are being unreasonable/unfair

Diddums. You don't get a pay rise, so throw your toys out the pram, and cause gridlock across an entire country on a Bank Holiday, and then you expect me to give you sympathy

What planet are you people on ???

Fair play to them a lot more workers need to grow a back bone and follow suit! and yes I had planned to /got a ticket from Birmingham to London looks like a will just have to change plans!

trailofdestruction - Member
Because management are being unreasonable/unfair
Diddums. You don't get a pay rise, so throw your toys out the pram, and cause gridlock across an entire country on a Bank Holiday, and then you expect me to give you sympathy

What planet are you people on ???

It was a £500 one off payment, not a pay-rise.

trailofdestruction - Member

I have absolutely no sympathy with the unions at all.

trailofdestruction - Member

......and then you expect me to give you sympathy

What planet are you people on ???

Earth.

That's why people don't expect, want, or need, sympathy from rabid anti-trade unionists.

And I would suggest that it's you who's living in your own fantasy world if you think trade unionists give a toss what people like you think.

What RMT and TSSA needs is sensible negotiations from Network Rail to resolve the dispute, not sympathy from you.

I work for a company that does a lot of work on the motorways, mainly under traffic management, day and night.

We were advised today that no Traffic Management would be put in place on Monday and Tuesday due to the rail strikes. We still have to pay our workforce and for the standing plant. For us its not a massive issue as we will be reimbursed for our costs but we might be talking somewhere in the region of £10k.

That will be replicated many, many times throughout the country costing millions overall. Guess who ultimately will be paying for that... you and me of course!

If the strike goes ahead then the anti union media will be all guns blazing for the unions, yet little is saidd about footballers high wages, mps awarding themselves huge rises qand Network rail senior boses geting huge bonuses,but if the working class union member decides to strike then he/she is seen as a threat to the whole country.

Other forms of transport are available and is your journey neccesary.Its only 1 and a bit days.

Lets hope the strikers dont get more.

Then it will didums for them x

trailofdestruction - Member

I have absolutely no sympathy with the unions at all. You're going to cripple the entire UK rail network because you didn't get a £500 pay rise ? Jog on sunshine.

They're not asking for a £500 pay rise, pay attention up the back.

Why is it people go "The workers are going on strike and causing X", but not "The management are refusing to meet the workers demands and causing X"?

I'm supposed to be travelling to Cornwall on Monday.

****.

Northwind I dont see the management threatening to shut the network for a critical day. Its blackmail. Is that grownup? Will the travelling public back the strike?

Meanwhile over in Germany, Herman the german and his union mates are also on strike, and Deutch Bahn also own a few british train operating companies along with some freight ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32810896

hora - Member

Northwind I dont see the management threatening to shut the network for a critical day.

They're refusing to progress negotiations (and resisting going to ATAS, and beligerantly trying to overturn union votes with legal action while supposedly negotiating), knowing exactly what the consequences will be. It's not one way travel, this.

Taking millions of quid in bonuses and above-inflation payrises as directors, then saying "Ah but it's different rules for us- meanwhile you lot can have flat pay (against our remuneration policy), a nonpensionable one-off bonus worth less than a per cent of my annual one, oh and compulsory redundancies in 2016, and be thankful"... Is that reasonable?

... shut the network for a critical day

Critical? It's planned for a Bank Hoiliday, you know .... when most people won't be working. Which is obviously a lot less critical than a normal Monday.

Is that grownup?

Asks the man who posts [i]"Then it will didums for them x "[/i]

The whole point of strike action is to cause disruption. Interesting that since the 1970s we have gone from seeing it as a normal part of life to an OMG! catastrophe.

It is fundamentally wrong that senior execs get huge rises when the staff on the bottom- who do the day to work for the organisation - get sweet **** all.

My natural Tory leaning tendencies may have been clouded by 12 years in the public sector, btw.

Am I correct that the rail staff have had RPI + 1\2%for the last 4 years during the down turn when a private company and now they are a public company still expect a pay rise like that, while council, NHS, police etc get naff all?

On the plus side, loads of work can get done on the network by non NR staff 😀

A lot of the main signal boxes will be manned by management so don't expect a total halt to all services, maybe a vastly reduced one, but trains could well run on main routes.

To be fair, 35hr weeks, rosterd days off an free vehicular transport while in work isn't that bad

What's the crack with the free travel? A mate worked for them and said the full Europe wide free family travel for life was taken away for new staff in '95?

I was planning to spend the weekend In my Weymouth flat. Now I can't get my bike back and probably not myself either. Bum holes!

ernie_lynch - Member

... shut the network for a critical day

Critical? It's planned for a Bank Hoiliday, you know .... when most people won't be working. Which is obviously a lot less critical than a normal Monday.

24 hrs from 5pm Monday isn't it? So a bit of the bank holiday and most of a normal Tuesday.

So most people will be able to get back from their bank holiday weekend, perhaps even eddiebaby. Excellent. What was the critical day hora was talking about then - tuesday ?

Vans & cars to use during the working day with no tax implications due to them being pool vehicles

I hope that they are very proud.

ernie_lynch - Member

So most people will be able to get back from their bank holiday weekend, perhaps even eddiebaby. Excellent. What was the critical day hora was talking about then - tuesday ?

I guess even though the strike starts at 5pm, the trains might be cancelled all day Monday. Probably Sunday as well just to be safe.

Well as far as I am aware any industrial action before the stipulated time will be illegal so unlikely to take place I would have thought.

Although there is likely to be extensive disruption anyway on the Bank Holiday as the Network Rail considers Bank Holidays an excellent time to carry out engineering work.

Massive disruptions were already planned in just the London region, whether or not the industrial action goes ahead :

[url= http://www.london24.com/news/transport/spring_bank_holiday_2015_train_disruptions_1_4073117 ]Spring Bank Holiday 2015 train disruptions[/url]

Quote : [i]"There’s going to be lots of engineering work on Bank Holiday Monday May 25 2015"[/i]

For the record I support the strike and I'm a train driver, as for Scotrail most routes that dont need a signal box will run . By this I mean major routes like Glasgow to Embra where little semaphore boxes don't need to open .
On another note It's Network rail that are striking (and quite rightly so) so don't go moaning about individual TOC's i.e Scotrail, Virgin , Northern , Xc etc etc.

Diddums. You don't get a pay rise, so throw your toys out the pram, and cause gridlock across an entire country on a Bank Holiday, and then you expect me to give you sympathy

What planet are you people on ???

The one in which people are allowed to demand to be paid what they think is the value of their labour? Free market isn't it, if people want to band together and demand more then let them.

Network Rail can either try to fire all of their staff or pay them more.

Northwind I dont see the management threatening to shut the network for a critical day. Its blackmail. Is that grownup? Will the travelling public back the strike?

Shops don't have to sell you their goods, people don't have to go into work to sell you their labour/service.

surely a more effective way of making their point to management would be to operate trains as normal, but allow folk to get on and off without a ticket.

They couldn't fire that amount of staff anyway.

Sometimes I really wonder why the peasants aren't swinging from the roof of Parliament and sacking Buckingham palace and why we haven't descended into some sort of North Korea knock off considering the levels of blind deference to authority that we have. The British seem so averse to any sort of industrial action or protest.

.....you can't be fired for engaging in it.

Oh yes you can. Employers have [i]always[/i] had the right to sack strikers. I don't think there's ever been a time in British history when they haven't had that right. And it's a right which they occasionally exercise.

EG Rupert Murdoch sacked 6,000 employees for going on strike.

Although obviously for practical reasons it easier for employers with smaller work forces to sack strikers.

And btw they must sack all those on strike, they can't sack say just half of those on strike, that would be considered discrimination in the eyes of the law.

Diddums. You don't get a pay rise, so throw your toys out the pram, and cause gridlock across an entire country on a Bank Holiday, and then you expect me to give you sympathy

No, I think they expect you to be inconvenienced.

Stanfree thanks for the clarification

supposed to be travelling back to London for work on Tuesday am. probably gonna have to wait till Wednesday now absolutely devastated 😆

They're not striking to get the support or sympathy of the public. It's between the staff and the management.

I'm self employed so striking doesn't work out well for me. Just piss myself off.

They're not striking to get the support or sympathy of the public. It's between the staff and the management.

Two things. Firstly I think that union leaders (management?) need to think about PR more. While I agree that a strike that inconveniences no one has no impact so is pointless they need to consider how the public will react. Ultimately if they continue to annoy "hard working people" then they will lose support. Generally union membership will decline and people will begin to support changes to limit their power - e.g. changes to voting rules and reducing strike options on "essential services". They seem stuck in their past in terms of attitudes. They have done a great service to working people but need to adapt with the times.

Secondly, I am always intrigued by the concept of staff vs. management. Maybe I have never worked in that kind of job long enough*. Where I am now we have management level staff and general staff but there isn't really an us vs. them attitude, just people with different responsibilities who work together to get the job done. Not sure I'd be happy working in an environment like that and it seems to only exist in heavily unionized environments but that is a bit chicken/egg. We don't have a strong union presence on our site despite being a predominantly factory environment in the NE.

They seem stuck in their past in terms of attitudes.

Oh here we go. Better wages and conditions is so out of date.

🙄

seems to only exist in heavily unionized environments

I dis-a-agree.

I've worked in a few non-unionised places where this is the case. Usually because all the crap travels down and all the gold travels up.

Like this case [as far as I can see].

The US concept of paying managers 20,30,100x as much as the frontline staff is stupid and divisive; it's been carefully constructed by some people for their own benefit. Now might be too late to jump straight back to reality I admit, but it's not actually adding anything to the value or quality of the company.

[IMG] [/IMG]

So a lot of people have some beef with their employer.

They withdraw their labour for a day and in return lose a days pay.

Whats so wrong with that?

If you were self employed, didn't like the money someone was offering you for a job and could afford to turn it down, would you? I can't really see the difference.

all the gold travels up

You mean like Network Rail's boss who gets £675,000 despite only having 18 months work experience in the rail industry ?

Strike suspended

ayyyyy

Boo, working opportunity gone.

[i]Although the possibility of strike action has been averted, it remains to be seen how many trains will run on Monday evening and Tuesday with many operators previously claiming they would not be running services irrespective of whether the strike was called off. [/i]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/train-strike-rmt-calls-off-bank-holiday-strike-action-10267273.html

This is how it's supposed to work: management and unions carry on with mediated negotiations until they reach a compromise.

Ultimately if they continue to annoy "hard working people" then they will lose support.

The miners gave us rolling powercuts yet still retained widespread public support...

I hope that they are very proud.

Sounds like the union negotiators held their nerve and reached some sort of better agreement.
Not sure how different this really is from business negotiations, where customer wants to pay the least possible, and provider/seller says 'find someone else to do it for less (ie sack us for striking), or choose us for this price' and they meet somewhere in the middle. I hope that 'somewhere in the middle' represents good vfm for the union members' subscriptions. Morally i see this as no different to large corporations who lobby westminster or buy their way into charity meals with ministers in order to lobby for their interests direct with the legislators.

Really, having lived (and gone on strike 😀 ) in France, the panic about this one felt like a storm in a teacup.

We were advised today that no Traffic Management would be put in place on Monday and Tuesday due to the rail strikes.

afaik "traffic management" is used to increase traffic flow, therefore a busy bank holiday weekend made busier by a rail strike would be a monumentally bad time to abandon TM and a cynic might wonder whether the powers that be were intentionally making things worse*.

or do you mean [i]work on implementing[/i] TM eg on the M60, will be delayed? Not clear from your post what you mean.

*or didn't want (stupid) motorists complaining about TM during a rail strike, despite fact TM should help matters.