[Closed] Vigil, TV drama

but now it is just very silly ...

In all my years of wearing dry suits, even pre-breathing a closed circuit rebreather while dressed in a black dry suit with thermal layers underneath with the sun beating down on a hot summer's day, I never knew about the 15 minute time limit before I collapsed with heat stroke... Guess I was just lucky to get away with it.

But I'm in now and there's only one hour of suspension of disbelief total disregard for reality to endure. Oh and see my earlier comment about the real baddies not being introduced until waaay through the series.

Do they have torpedoes in Trident subs?

It's TV, if y'all want it to be realistic, go watch portillo on a train 😂

Do they have torpedoes in Trident subs?

Yes, I assume for self defence purposes.

Yes, I assume for self defence purposes.

But only as a last resort because even things like flooding the tube makes (comparatively) a lot of noise that could give away the position of a stealthy sub. Especially when half the Russian fleet is out looking for it...

Thanks, it was a genuine question, not bashing the script.

It’s a load of rubbish. Still, it’s better than the latest series of Silent Witness.

There's loads of bad detail in it tbh, worst CPR ever on TV in first 2 episodes, massive looking areas in the sub, medic placing stethoscope nowhere near big Suzanne's heart last night, the ModPlod giving out national secrets in the middle of a CND camp, the list is endless.

But it's entertainment, not a factual account. Chill.

But it’s entertainment, not a factual account. Chill.

But spotting the massive flaws in production is half the fun. It's almost like they couldn't play 'shoehorn in the acronym' this time so no CHIS, AFOs or any of that and decided to confuse us with other nonsense instead. Anyhow can we play 'guess the finale' now? Just need to resolve the saboteur on the sub, the rogue CND/russian agent, get everyone off the sub and have a reconciliation with Mrs Jon Snow, the grandparents and her kid.

The camera angle when Suranne was in the torpedo tube made her nose look like a conning tower.

Yes it's technically, politically and medically arse but it's Sunday night unplug and relax fodder.

For those calling out the flaws, there's loads of OU lectures on the YouTube.

Oh, it's definitely half the fun, not disagreeing, just not moaning about it!.

I'm currently watching Vigil and Endeavour, both of which have Shaun Evans in (he's the Cox in Vigil), which gets a bit confusing. I keep expecting Inspector Thursday to be smoking his pipe in the submarine causing some STWers to go apoplectic with anti-realism rage...

Realistic or not, its good fun tele 🙂

derek_starship

Yes it’s technically, politically and medically arse but it’s Sunday night unplug and relax fodder.

For those calling out the flaws, there’s loads of OU lectures on the YouTube.

Agree, but when it's so silly that it takes you out of the programme, it does spoil the fun a bit.

Did enjoy the final few seconds though, proper nightmare fodder!

Line of Duty took five series to go from interestingly-plotted-drama to it's-just-bloody-ridiculous-now nonsense, whilst Vigil has managed it in four episodes.

I'm going to have to hold my tongue for the finale, as MrsIHN was getting a bit annoyed with my repeated "oh FFS, come on..." whilst watching it last Sunday night.

The camera angle when Suranne was in the torpedo tube made her nose look like a conning tower.

What the actual f__k has that got to do with anything? Stay classy.

Agree it’s gone completely daft as now. But still enjoying it 😀

Still, it’s better than the latest series of Silent Witness.

Most things are these days!

The camera angle when Suranne was in the torpedo tube made her nose look like a conning tower.

Hahahaha, I find it amazing how she can look so different depending on the viewing angle.

Hahahaha, I find it amazing how she can look so different depending on the viewing angle.

It's 2021 FFS. I give up.

It’s 2021 FFS. I give up.

Eh? Sense of humour bypass or outraged at the assumed objectification of women?

There's nothing assumed about it. Why comment on the size of lead actor's nose (a comment you clearly found funny), or on how she looks in different camera angles? That is exactly objectification.

What's the year got to do with my commenting on somebody's nose?

Please advise.

What’s the year got to do with my commenting* on somebody’s nose?

See above

*Twice, you've clearly got a thing about it:

Not sure if it’s the angles and lighting but I didn’t realise Suranne (Sarah) had such a hooter on her.

I just focus on the drama side, no point worrying about reality, it wasn’t mod approved so will always be away from reality, same with any action movie or other drama out there, a lot of stuff now focuses on making things how they think it should be, rather than how it actually was.

What’s the year got to do with my commenting on somebody’s nose?

Please advise.

I think the point is that whilst taking the piss out of someone for what they say or do might be acceptable, doing it because of their body shape or the way they look is generally considered to be a dick move.

If Suranne doesn't want to be objectified, maybe she should consider some of the photo shoots she does?

There’s nothing assumed about it. Why comment on the size of lead actor’s nose (a comment you clearly found funny), or on how she looks in different camera angles? That is exactly objectification.

At that angle her nose looked big, and the reference to a conning tower made me chuckle given the subject of the program. She does look very different depending on the camera angle.

Chuckling at someones nose might be childish but it's a stretch to claim objectification.

noun: objectification; plural noun: objectifications
1.
the action of degrading someone to the status of a mere object.
"the objectification of women in popular entertainment"

Perhaps we need to agree to disagree - some people are horrified at the inaccuracies of the show, some see it as easy watching. Some people are childish and chuckle at things that others find offensive.

Also I think the point is that there's a distinct lack of comment about the physical appearance of the male characters. So when a comment on the size of a woman's nose is made by a man in that context it is, quite rightly in my view, indicative of a deep rooted misogyny. So deep rooted in fact that the perpetrator often doesn't even realise they have crossed the line.

It's 2021 now. Leave the comments on women's bodies behind us eh?

it’s a stretch to claim objectification.

Maybe, maybe, but it's far less likely that similar comments about appearance would be made of male actors.

EDIT - crossed posts with Mark there.

If Suranne doesn’t want to be objectified, maybe she should consider some of the photo shoots she does?

Yeah, sometimes they're just asking for it, eh?

I have never in my entire life heard or saw such a disgusting display. Even Ren & Stimpy aren't this bad. Close; but this movie is worse. It makes you hope for an early sinking to stop the audiences suffering. I've managed outside plant cable crews; some of the raunchiest you've ever met... but they couldn't hold a candle to the gross, disgusting behavior & dialogue on this movie which is nonstop from the very onset.

https://www.amazon.com/review/R5WBK8MGNDWXI/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0767802470&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=

I think this particular reviewer might've preferred Vigil.

So when a comment on the size of a woman’s nose is made by a man in that context it is, quite rightly in my view, indicative of a deep rooted misogyny. So deep rooted in fact that the perpetrator often doesn’t even realise they have crossed the line.

Has it occurred to either of you that this had nothing to do with the owner of said nose being a woman? Perhaps it's two middle aged children laughing at something. Would it make any difference at all if either of us "perpetrators" are women, or if the comment was about a man? It's a joke about a nose FFS.

but it’s far less likely that similar comments about appearance would be made of male actors.

I don't know him but I'm fairly confident that if the actor in the submarine torpedo tube with a nose that reminded Derek of a conning tower was a man, he'd have made the same comment.

Just because it's 2021 you don't need to look for offence in every interaction you have or comment you read.

So when a comment on the size of a woman’s nose is made by a man in that context it is, quite rightly in my view, indicative of a deep rooted misogyny.

However, your view is obscured by a pea souper of hyperbole and woke banners.

Ah, the woke card, excellent.

Just to be clear, Derek's first comment was:

Not sure if it’s the angles and lighting but I didn’t realise Suranne (Sarah) had such a hooter on her.

So, for starters, regardless of the gender of the target, why even say this? What does it have to do with anything?

And then he presses on

The camera angle when Suranne was in the torpedo tube made her nose look like a conning tower.

Again, regardless of why he said it (but, again, why say it?), it's a fact that comments, especially derogatory comments, about an actor's physical appearance are massively more common with regard to female actors. They are far, far more likely to be judged for how they look than how they act.

If me pointing out when it happens, and that it's not on, is me being a wokey-snowflake, then, honestly, I'm fine with that. Personally, I think it's just me pointing out that someone's breaking Rule 1.

Yeah, sometimes they’re just asking for it, eh?

Asking for their looks to be judged? Yeah, probably.

Why else would they be photographed in a very sexualised way?

any chance we can go back to slagging off the show instead of each other please?

Again, regardless of why he said it (but, again, why say it?), it’s a fact that comments, especially derogatory comments, about an actor’s physical appearance are massively more common with regard to female actors. They are far, far more likely to be judged for how they look than how they act.

I haven't seen any data to prove or disprove this, and frankly it doesn't interest me enough to go and find it so I'll assume you are correct, but what makes you so certain that Derek commented on the size of Suranne Jones' hooter because she's a woman? Do you think that perhaps he made that comment because of the size of her hooter rather than her sex?

Maybe if you'd stopped and taken a breath before jumping all over people with claims of objectification and misogyny, seen the comment for what it was, and accepted that not everyone holds the same views as you, we wouldn't have derailed what was quite an amusing thread.

any chance we can go back to slagging off the show instead of each other please?

Yes please, apologies for the derail.

Yes please, apologies for the derail.

No worries, not aimed at anyone in particular.

I have a stupid question of my own to get it back on track - does each area of the sub have its own ventilation system?

I know they sealed the doors and presumably the ventilation to the affected area but surely at some point they've got to clear the air of whole area to remove the nerve agent already airborne.

I haven't actually watched it, only seen a trailer, but it sounds like there are some people on this thread with proper Navy / diving / sub experience, so want to ask a question: do divers ever actually wear stuff like this in real life? I would have thought illuminating your own face is a really bad idea when you're peering into dark murky waters... helmets like this seem to appear on various underwater adventures (The Abyss comes to mind), is it just for cinematic effect so we can see them acting?

[img] [/img]

Isn’t the water and the bleach supposed to try to remove the airborne particles? Very likely I’m wrong but thought that was the plan?

w00dster
Full Member

Isn’t the water and the bleach supposed to try to remove the airborne particles? Very likely I’m wrong but thought that was the plan?

I thought that was just to decontaminate the two in the suits in the makeshift decontamination tent, could be wrong though.
If they spray bleach through the entire area, then presumably you'd still have to vent the area to get the chlorine out of the air.

I would have thought illuminating your own face is a really bad idea when you’re peering into dark murky waters…

I say exactly the same all the time when films do this. See also Prometheus. Alien Covenant etc too.

any chance we can go back to slagging off the show instead of each other please?

It's utter drivel, pretty much every BBC drama loses the plot and descends into badly written absurd nonsense that sharply takes a turn from anything resembling reality, this usually happens in the final third of the series so it's quite impressive that Vigil managed this in the first episode.

but it sounds like there are some people on this thread with proper Navy / diving / sub experience, so want to ask a question: do divers ever actually wear stuff like this in real life?

No.

It's a rip off of the Kirby Morgan helmets used in The Abyss. James Cameron got them made so you could see the actors faces.

https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-abyss-dive-helmets-and-gear.243009/

Besides, if that was a real dive hat, she would of had a significant chance of CO2 build up and she wouldn't of been moving her head as easily on the surface, it would weigh nearly 30 pounds.

If they spray bleach through the entire area, then presumably you’d still have to vent the area to get the chlorine out of the air.

Pay attention at the back - Engineering Geezer Second Class on Vigil said he'd be able to do rig the fire suppression and venting to do that but for whatever reason they just opted for a spray bottle and a nice shower.

Enjoying it, but LOL'd at that bit

Captain being startled by the sudden appearance of an oil tanker.

Great answer, thanks @gobuchul!

scuttler

Pay attention at the back – Engineering Geezer Second Class on Vigil said he’d be able to do rig the fire suppression and venting to do that but for whatever reason they just opted for a spray bottle and a nice shower.

Ah thanks scuttler

Loved the way Amy contained the (sinisterly gassing off) tin of neurotoxin in a single polythene bag of similar grammage to those proffered by the offy at the top of our street.

Surely Trident subs have a SOP for disposing of secreted Sarin...

Surely Trident subs have a SOP for disposing of secreted Sarin

I wouldn't think so.

Captain being startled by the sudden appearance of an oil tanker.

Thinking about this, the fella that got told off cos he was supposed to be listening out for oil tankers was the baddie fella who replaced Leading Seaman Steve Arnott, who would otherwise, one would assume, have been listening for oil tankers more effectively if he hadn't been inconveniently poisoned. So, maybe the implication that he wasn't very good at the basics of his job was an early clue that there was something not quite right about baddie fella.

Nobeer - that was a tongue-in-cheek remark hence the ellipsis.

Jonesy definitely my choice for listening for oil tankers as well as revolutionary new propulsion systems and adversary subs doing random u-turns…

Class film.

Surely Trident subs have a SOP for disposing of secreted Sarin

Similarly, would they have an SOP to allow a civilian to be allowed to lead in a disaster recovery situation ahead of the obviously much more highly trained submariners. I'd like to say it's all enjoyable bollocks but unfortunately it's just bollocks.

I bet you lot simply adored Hunt for the Red October

One Ping Only

I bet you lot simply adored Hunt for the Red October

Especially Connery's fine Russian accent.

Similarly, would they have an SOP to allow a civilian to be allowed to lead in a disaster recovery situation ahead of the obviously much more highly trained submariners

She didn't.

She was going to investigate the crime scene before the evidence would be destroyed by the bleach spray.

Meanwhile, last night on the Channel 5 program about a real nuclear sub, they had a much more serious emergency: the heads were blocked.

I take it we’re just to assume that Russia would attack any navy ship/boat in international waters in peacetime, and that the RN have no surface vessels that could’ve made way to the area already.

So how do we all reckon she’s going to get out of the tube in time?

So how do we all reckon she’s going to get out of the tube in time?

One huge sneeze'll shift 'er.

She was going to investigate the crime scene before the evidence would be destroyed by the bleach spray.

Ahh okay, I was clearly bored stupid not concentrating by that point.

So how do we all reckon she’s going to get out of the tube in time?

As I said up there, flooding tubes is fairly noisy so one of the sonar ops could hear it and hey presto, one soggy detective is dragged out in the nick of time. Or in Vigil world, she takes a deep breath, clambers out as the outer door opens and (despite the sub cruising at many knots) swims to the conning tower where she opens the outer hatch and gets let back in. Oh and while she's out in the sea she spots a Russian sub behind Vigil.

Able Rating Random Lady knows morse code remember.

One huge sneeze’ll shift ‘er.

Fair play, I'll give you that one.

sub, they had a much more serious emergency: the heads were blocked.

Bleach spray you see! Authentic.

So how do we all reckon she’s going to get out of the tube in time?

Isn't coxon with dragon tattoo still alive? Presumably he'll mutter something about the villain and they'll all come running. Im guessing the XO will be the unlikely hero who runs into the contaminated area with no hazmat.

Line of Boaty

I have a fiver on Silva being a mermaid. I'm coming into the last episode confident.

Surely Trident subs have a SOP for disposing of secreted Sarin

There is actually a trash disposal system if you could fit it in, everything gets bundled into a small cannister and fired at the sea bed.

everything gets bundled into a small cannistertorpedo tube and fired at the sea bedRussian sub.

Line of Boaty

tea spilled.
🙂

tea spilled.

Not to be confused with Line of Booty.....

Watched the last episode (that was enought) after the first C5 submarine episode. I thought it was terrible. And the actors are clearly too thin to be submariners.

coxon

Coxn or coxswain if you please.

Coxn

Cox’n actually. 😉

Have we done.... Is the line about morse code an in joke for Evans?

It's so crappy that it sort of becomes compulsive viewing to see how much worse it can get.

In the opening credits the torpedo is spinning az it exits the tube
I thoight it was a blast of compressed air to get them out, then the on board peroxide motor takes ovet. Witj fins to keep them stable

I think the opening credits show a trident missile being launched, not a torpedo. I guess they spin when launched.

Haven’t been paying much attention to it, but why have a nuclear launch drill while in the middle of an onboard situation, and why not just surface to be greeted by a flotilla of friendly surface vessels?
And it has to be the roomiest sub in the fleet!
Just been catching it in the passing.