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I actually spoke to a gamekeeper in East Anglian who once went up to Scotland to help out shooting from a helicopter due to some unique “management needs”.
Cue "Ride of the Valkyrie".
We occasionally had a haunch in the shop, but theres not much call for venison in the east end of Glasgow. Chopped pork yup(thin cut), but venison hasn't reached that far east yet.
I was surprised that marks and spencer didnt stock Scottish venison, relying on imported. I brought that up with them, but it fell on deaf ears. Although Im retired from the trade, I will hold the banner.
Something I make for myself is filled venison 'kievs' Made from finely minced 95% lean(about 6oz) its easier for me to buy a premade product and adapt it). Being sticky it holds a liquid contents during cooking in the oven. Garlic butter works well as does a cheese sauce, though its best they're frozen before you put it in. I wrap smoked bacon around the parcel, then into tinfoil to keep its shape for the first 20mins, and off to brown it.About 45mins total,200c.(reduce heat at the end)
Cut open the sauce runs out.
Ok. I could have written “shooting deer at night is prohibited under normal circumstances without a licence from Natural England, SNH or whatever” yada yada, but thought for the purposes of brevity and this thread that what I wrote was adequate. You are more correct, well done.
Child
Speaking as a hand-wringing vegetarian snowflake whose opinion is therefore as relevant here as a "yes but bacon" comment in a vegan thread, I've every respect for anyone who hunts their own food.
Sorry, I've nothing helpful to add.
I always wanted to try Venison, but cannot afford it. I just find it too Deer!
It's dead deer. Half a joke.
I'm a vegetarian deer stalker, how 'bout that ? lol.
Child
Wow. You have a nice day mate.
Wow. You have a nice day mate
Not being funny bud, but you stated an incorrect fact so I simply corrected you. You followed that up by making out you were simplifying, and that there were "grades" of correct when you were simply wrong.
You ended with a sarcastic comment to make me out some sort of pedant.
Grow up. You were incorrect, own it.
It seems madness to me to farm an animal that is so abundant in the wild
It's much easier to round up and slaughter 50 animals in a field than to hunt each one down in the woods or mountains!
I do like venison -- in fact it's been my Christmas meat of choice for decades, over turkey. Had a good local ish butcher, they then closed; took me ages to find another good and good value source - finally did. Also in NE Scotland. When I get order from them, usually get the whole pension menu - sausages, burgers, diced for stew - as well. They also do a mean black pudding which is the icing on the cake really.
@swavis - the butcher wouldn't be local to you (Dufftown) but they do deliver for no cost. It's as cheap as I've found locally (and I've been round quite a few - closest otherwise for quality/cost is Tawse in Rothes).
Grow up. You were incorrect, own it.
Go back and have a read. I acknowledged you were correct in my first response to you. You replied with personal insults. I suspect, based on the glimpses of your personality you have provided, that you will be absolutely desperate to have the last word. Fill your boots, I'm done. And I wish you (genuinely) a nice day.
You did everything except admit you were wrong (not that I was arsed) and made a sarcastic comment to boot.
Please stop trying to ruin an interesting thread.
Love venison, family shoot them locally for the pot, with it shared with the farmer. Find the idea of farming them odd as they are an abundant resource that need managing.
A very good source of protein and not intensively farmed.
Never bought it in shops as I know the across the board £/kg price to a dealer! It’s seen as an expensive luxury food when it’s not expensive to produce.
I imagine it's far easier to get big retailers to take farmed , tagged animals.
TL:DR I like venison, it tastes great. I'd buy it if the provenance was clear.
PS I hit one just north of Ullapool once and it wrote my car off. The git just hobbled off into the dark night with it's mates.
We used to get venison and lamb via the local estate. Always assumed someone was fiddling the numbers somewhere as they always came with way more legs and shoulders than they should 🤣.
It was a NT estate, they didn't do "stalking", just waited in a cleering at dusk and shot them like fish in a barrel. Used to laugh at those north of the border who charged a fortune to take the public on a long walk across a bog to achieve the same thing!
We get fantastic venison burgers and sausages from a neighbour who shoots them locally (Mendips/Bristol). Have also got a few skinned carcasses off him for friends who do their own butchery during lock down. He is contracted for management of various estates and takes a lot of care to shoot the appropriate animals and does so with regard to minimise any suffering which aligns with our own attitude to the sheep and pigs we breed on our smallholding and sell to friends and neighbours.
Tried it once in the Highlands about 17 years ago. Went veggie more or less straight afterwards , but remember that I liked it and would eat it again.
If I was to ever eat another mammal again, it would only be wild -shot game. No offense to farmers as I understand theres more to farming than just the endgame of loading them onto the slaughter trucks, but I couldnt morally eat another farmed sentient being again.
Right up until the point it feels the bullet impact, that deer is living the life it was born to, which is more than can be said for most of us. In the absence of major predators here in UK (unless you count the big cats...which is another story) , deer numbers would spiral out of control fairly soon. They are not small animals and can and do cause serious damage to forestry etc, or so I have heard.
Having said that, I have not seen such a magnificent site as camping out during the rut in the Highlands years ago.
Until we run out of veg then theyre safe from harm from me, but the moment they become food, then yes, I'd eat venison again in a heartbeat.
@johnnymarone good post. My wife of 34 years has been vegetarian since before I met her. She's far happier with me eating game I've shot than meat bought in a supermarket. So am I.
I've done a lot of soul searching over this, and could easily become vegetarian myself. If and until I do, I will try to source the highest welfare meat I can. Ethically I have no issue with wild venison, particularly when you consider that the alternative to a bullet, a "natural" death for deer in predator free UK is disease, RTA, starvation in winter etc.
It is free range, organic, sustainable, minimal food miles and carbon footprint and right up to the moment it dies has never known captivity and all that goes with it. I get massively wound up when someone tells me shooting and eating wild game is cruel, but will happily buy a broiler chicken or cheap sausages from Tesco.
I was at a Deer farm in Azerbaijan where the primary produce was not the meat or skins but damned if I can remember what.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jannat+Baghi/ @40.8537207,48.9194347,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMxZnTrmzSxMyIaOr4ccrOEXlkI8I_64IxfRNez!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMxZnTrmzSxMyIaOr4ccrOEXlkI8I_64IxfRNez%3Dw203-h114-k-no!7i2688!8i1520!4m16!1m7!3m6!1s0x40307d6bd6211cf9:0x343f6b5e7ae56c6b!2sBaku,+Azerbaijan!3b1!8m2!3d40.4092617!4d49.8670924!3m7!1s0x4037597442b05ac1:0xc653283aa90eeea7!5m2!4m1!1i2!8m2!3d40.8537191!4d48.9194369
The deer ...
https://goo.gl/maps/CKk1uJRRMC3KXZy7A
I seek it out from my local butcher. I enjoy it occasionally particularly as loin steak but can get bored with the stewing meat pretty quickly. I'd love to feed my lab on it if there was a cheaper source.
I'm sorting some out for others just now and it has reminded me how much I love the neck turned into a good broth.
Still not doing it though. That's a year veggie for me now.
We used to get venison and lamb via the local estate. Always assumed someone was fiddling the numbers somewhere as they always came with way more legs and shoulders than they should 🤣
Not the Drax estate is it with their 5 legged deer? 😉
As an Aside, I really believe that any licensed FAC holder should be allowed to go into the highlands and shoot a deer.
Tickets should be issued to allow 1 or 2 deer and numbers and locations of tickets issued should be controlled by local authorities.
Estates are greed personified when it comes to stalking, which is basically pest control.( Glen Feshie helicopter fiasco is a case in point. I discussed this with the factors office and the greed shone through)
I have never ever paid for stalking and I never will.
I love venison. An ex's dad was an itinerant reindeer herder in northern Norway. He used to wander with his herds through the Finmark, into Russia and back.
She always had loads of fresh or cured meat sent to her.
Then came Chernobyl and he had to stop selling the meat so he turned to setting up rodeos and showing off their riding/herding skills with his workers.
so, had a 30kg larder weight fallow dropped off a couple of days ago, and the missus and I skinned and butchered it using YouTube as a guide. it wasnt as bad as I thought it might have been. there's a lot of meat. most of it is going to be raw food for the dog but we are going to keep some for us. this is for practice, the stalker has more than he can deal with so hopefully the next one we will have a better idea of what to do.
re comments above, shot placement was perfect, straight through the heart. looking forward to trying some.
Where we are the forestry is being harvested and with no proper culling it's being predicted that even more deer will come down this winter and eat our foliage and gardens.
@porter_jamie - not sure if you found the Scott Rae project on YouTube - very good demos of butchery and how to break down a deer carcass.
all the poor practices associated with some highland estates.
Not sure this is a fair statement to make, without any proof. "Some estates" is a bit all encompassing 😕
Its pretty obvious if you go out in the hills which estates have "poor practices" ie too many head of deer so eroded overgrazed landscapes of low biodiversity or muirburn for driven grouse shoots leading to erosion and lack of biodiversity. You can often see the change along fencelines / boundaries
As an Aside, I really believe that any licensed FAC holder should be allowed to go into the highlands and shoot a deer.
That's a very naive and ill informed comment.
Most FAC holders shoot .22lr and .17hmr. The regulations around deer stalking dictate ballistic set points:
Minimum bullet weight 100 grains
Minimum muzzle energy 1750 ft/lbs
Minimum muzzle velocity 2450 ft/s
So essentially .243 and above.
My stepfather and BIL both have licenses to cull deer in Devon, so venison is plentiful and I really like it. My vegetarian son eats it since it is ethically sourced.
In Richmond Park, they used to bury the culled animals I believe. Not sure if they manage to sell all of the cull now. https://www.frp.org.uk/deer-cull-royal-parks-advice/
@TiRed there is no licence to shoot deer as such. Obviously you need one to have the gun with the correct condition on it. but you dont go and get a licence to shoot deer like you would in say the us.
@derek_starship there is a minimum calibre too. and as you ably pointed out there are minimum legal requirements to shoot deer. anyone with an fac knows they live on their licence conditions and would know the minimum requirement and surely that's not the point the chap above was making anyway, not naive at all. I'd probably insist on dsc qualification as a minimum though.
his point was the deer population isnt managed properly/centrally with any kind of joined up thinking, it's down to the local landowner. I'm not sure I'd want random people wandering across my land, shooting at anything that moved however but there needs to be a different approach, I agree.
That’s a very naive and ill informed comment.
Far from it. I'm very well informed and not naive in the slightest. 30 yrs of shooting and stalking should mean I know the requirements better than most. Including the googlers.
I think it would be stupid to assume someone with a 22lr is going to hunt a deer and that was not what I was saying anyway. Massively wrong assumption made on your part I'm afraid.
In other countries, hunters can apply to shoot a number of head of deer a year and then carry out that cull as and when.
Suitably licensed hunters here should be able to do the same thing.
As it stands, culls are not completed due to money issues and estates hate the thought of ordinary people being able to hunt a deer, worse still, without giving them money.
Stuck up attitudes and greed are the biggest cause of deer issues in Scotland and are the reason the Gov't bodies have had to step in and slaughter huge numbers.
@TiRed there is no licence to shoot deer as such
Sorry I meant relevant qualifications from I forget which organisation (game and wildlife conservation trust?). And a FAC too, obviously.
Including the googlers.
Not me.
.22 250 and hundreds of foxes. I am very experienced and knowledgeable.
another one arrived, smaller one this time. missus and i are getting, well less bad i suppose at dealing with it (compared to the chap in the youtube video). got a vac pack machine which is really good. we have a mincing attachment for the food processor so looking forward to trying our hand at burgers and things.
the freezer probably has room for another big one. all this should keep the dog going for months 🙂
Missed this thread first time around but...
I had a venison steak last night and, as a joke to myself, my veggies were a vegan steak from Tesco.
...is hilarious!
I like a venison stew now and then. Some of the prices charged are a bit steep though. For anyone in the Glasgow area best I have found is The Fish Plaice in Byres Rd and The Saltmarket. Diced venison at £10Kg frozen or £12 fresh.
Compares to online sources at anything up to £17 a Kg
As an Aside, I really believe that any licensed FAC holder should be allowed to go into the highlands and shoot a deer.
See also rabbits. Bloody pests and prolific to boot, I already have a certificate for my air rifle, I'd happily get a FAC or specific licence if it meant I was deemed competent to shoot the buggers wherever rather than the elusive permission.
I don't see it as any different to existing foraging laws.
Dealers / butchers are paying anywhere between 80p to £2 per kilo for in the fur venison at the minute - anything over about £1/kg is the exception to be honest. Prices a year or so ago were £2.20-£2.90ish, so if you can find the primary producer and can deal with larger quantities then venison can be very cheap.
I just sold a couple of whole roe (15-20kg larder weight) - one was whole, in the fur and the other was skinned and butchered into prime cuts (haunches, loins, shanks and a bunch of stewing). £30 in the skin, £40 butchered.
Giving Up the Game FB page is a good place to start.
I like it, although don't tend to eat it at home, partly as I just don't eat that much meat at home. There also isn't a local butcher anywhere near me and I find supermarket meat, esp game, expensive and a bit meh!
Would like to see it more regularly, same with things like Pheasant - Pheasant mince is a great beef substitute and much better than burying the poor shot beasties!
We are getting home delivery.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140397021@N03/shares/37srs4
Cracking buck. And your garden is looking amazing for this time of year - ours is a total mess 😉
Haven't eaten it in a while but do like it. If it was more readily available in my local area then I would buy it more. Suspect it actually is but I'm not in the right shops.
Not me.
.22 250 and hundreds of foxes. I am very experienced and knowledgeable.
And yet !
How many deer included in those fox numbers ?
Giving Up the Game FB page is a good place to start.
Cheers!
so in the last couple of months we have had a few delivered. the last one was a big old doe, and the latest one is a muntjac. so much easier to lug about. Anyway, we started with some really cheap plastic handled knives which are fine, but they do not remain sharp for very long - you need to have a steel with you, and we have a whetstone so we sharpen them regularly. Is it worth buying some posher knives that might remain sharper for longer? Any recommendations?
Eat it a lot in preference to beef. need to be careful cooking it as it can be a bit dry.
Local buffalo farm (Fife) sells it and we buy from there. if you can set up some form of refrigerated/cooled delivery like the cheese companies, I'd buy direct from the gamekeeper!
@porter_jamie - in short, nope! Victorinox plastic handled are all you need and used by lots of professionals. They're constantly flicking them over a steel though. I've got a 5" flexible boning knife and a larger steak knife. That's all you need to break down a carcass but a bone saw does make things easier for cutting ribs / french rack etc, and also for going through the neck / spine, although that can be done with a knife if you find a joint.
@Smudger666 - check out Dartmoor Deer Services - mail order direct from source, but a fair chance the venison in your local farm shop will have fewer food miles than sending it all the way from Devon 🙂
How many deer included in those fox numbers ?
Bit of a loaded question there (excuse the pun)
Seeing as there’s a muzzle energy limit and from memory a bullet weight range too for smaller rounds.
Think it’s regional too so 22-250 is legal in England (with constraints) but not legal in Scotland? Might be the other way round as it’s a while since I knew about this stuff.
Id prefer to see deer populations trimmed right back.
It would raise the value of venison.
It would lower the amount of ticks, thus minimising the possibility of contracting Lyme disease and/ or tick-borne encephalitis.
With less deer, there would be a chance for trees to reclaim the highland landscape.
In the meantime, that land could also be used to grow hemp/ bamboo, thus providing a habitat for birds.
Personally, I’d be wary of handling a deer carcass. With the whole Lyme disease issue, that’s a clear health and safety snafu. What would your union rep say?
I’m sure the venison tastes amazing🤩
To answer the OP, love eating venison in most forms. Costco still selling it, I bought some yesterday. If I had a local supplier I'd buy more & could easily use venison instead of beef most of the time.
As for deer population in the Highlands, would I be correct in stating that there are far too many & voluntary control of the numbers is'nt working? The landscape has been altered by the number of deer & this has a knock-on effect on other species & the number of trees. There must be a joined up solution to bring the numbers down & get the carcases into the food chain.
Lots of good points coming up here; I'm a fan of eating wild venison and do regularly, certainly more often than the rare occasions that we have beef.
I've a pal who runs a hill shoot in the west and butchers at home; I'll also buy it regularly from a village butchers near home and sometimes elsewhere too.
There's clearly room for the market to grow, just like the specialist seafood suppliers and restaurants arranging home deliveries. See 'The Oyster Shed'. They do venison now as well.
Davesport, you're right; voluntary control doesn't work, many of the old school (by attitude) estate owners are not interested in reducing deer and sheep numbers to sustainable levels on our hills.
Red deer are undersized and borderline starving in many areas; they and the roe, sika & fallow are all eating young trees and underbrush, preventing regrowth of natural forests. Internationally, red deer do better when they have access to shelter and better still when they have to watch out for predators too.
What would help, in a few areas, is a wild population of lynx but that's a long way off yet.
Perhaps have a look at the Scotland, The Big Picture campaign for another perspective on this.
@Davesport not just the highlands, you cant move for them where i am in essex - probably because so much of the land where they hang around is near to housing so its not safe to shoot them there.
Personally, I’d be wary of handling a deer carcass. With the whole Lyme disease issue, that’s a clear health and safety snafu.
Nah, it's not an issue. Lyme is a tick issue (More folk get ticks from walking and from pets) so as long as you check yourself for ticks yer fine.
Thanks for the heads up on the Giving up the Game FB page, I’ve just joined it.
To the OP, I love it, in my top 3 of favourite meats. Years ago I was told to treat it like you would lamb when it came to cooking it and I’ve never been disappointed with the outcomes following that advice.
Sadly, I’m unlikely to be in a position to try sourcing my own, as that means going through the FAC application which is getting tougher and stalking is no longer a reason by itself reading my application for a shotgun. I do have bows, which would do the job, but is highly illegal.
What would help, in a few areas, is a wild population of lynx but that’s a long way off yet.
There was talk of doing exactly this at Kielder forest a couple of years ago, pretty sure it got a fair bit of support, obvs the local sheep farmers were not keen but not sure whether it's still under consideration. Venison is probably my favourite meat at the minute and most of the major supermarkets sell it these days, most of it from New Zealand ffs, surely it can't be cheaper and easier to source meat from the other side of the planet when the UK is overrun with deer
stalking is no longer a reason by itself
Stalking absolutely is a reason on it's own.
You don't even need a permission to shoot on as paid days out is enough to obtain an FAC (you need to show proof of booking in some instances.
FAC application which is getting tougher and stalking is no longer a reason by itself reading my application for a shotgun
Stalking is a reason for an FAC. You cannot shoot a deer with a shotgun, at all, apart from humane despatch of course. Getting permission on some ground is the hardest thing of all.
FAC?
Fire arms certificate?
Doh, of course. As you were.
FAC is short for Firearm certificate, the license to own rifle
Brads, Porter-Jamie, just reread the notes, and yes you both are correct, I misread.
You could push the leaness factor, always some group claiming fat is bad, and venison has none. The healthier choice.
I personally find it a little 'Gamey' for my tastes, I know the older generation and others dont like a plate full of blood(yes I know its not really blood)I always seem to need to overcook it though i prefer beef to be rarish. In sausage and meatball format, due to its lack of fat it can tend to be a bit on the dry side.
Im not sure how people would take the management of slaughter for venison. Its understood for all that the main 3 are dispatched in a slaughterhouse, but venison is a free roaming animal and nobody is really aware of how it gets from hill to plate, certainly not the usual routes, and that lack of knowledge lends rise to animal charity groups setting forth myths about that side of the industry.
In your average general city butchers, venison isnt high on the supply list. The customer knows its there but theres never been a great call for it outside of xmas or new year. I suppose now, with less butchers shops, many are pushing the specialist outlet for their shop, priced to match, but I dont think without having the meat federation behind it its ever going to get into the publics shopping lists as a staple over lamb,beef or pork.
-----------------------
A favourite use of mine for venison burgers is to fold them around something like a frozen chunk of garlic butter or some other sauce(cheese is nice), as its stickiness(from the lack of fat) kind of waterproofs it a bit and it sauce doesnt leak out all over the baking tray.
I make up filled burgers, wrapped in smoked streaky bacon, wrapped in foil for the oven, off for the last 10 mins to crisp the bacon.
Seemed too miss this when first posted.
But we love eating venison at home, we go through phases of it being our most consumed meat. To the point it is our toddlers favourite meat!
Over the last few years I've bought them whole from a local estate (Scottish borders) then butchered them myself at home and stored in the freezer. As stated above this way works out rather cheap (£30 for a whole carcass - which equated to about 8-10kg of meat).
Easy to end up with a mix of steaks, roasts, mince and dice and shanks. Then just substitute mince/dice into things that may have used beef or lamb (bolognaise, chilli).
For steaks or roasts cooking is a little different to beef, but there are plenty of great recipes online or books around about it.
Reminds me its time to get one again...
Regarding it being dry - yep, agreed it can be if you roast something like a haunch whole. There's little fat in it to keep the meat moist. What I've found works best:
- Steaks / loin - cooked like beef steaks, seared and pink in the middle etc.
- Mince - chilli, bolognaise, lasagne etc are all great
- Haunch - I usually split down into the main muscle groups and cut steaks, but best way to cook whole is to butterfly, marinade and barbie (keeping it pink in the middle)
- Shanks - slow cooked in stews - meat falls off the bone. There are some great recipes for moroccan lamb shanks that work equally well with venison. Lovely!
- Burgers - with a bit of pork shoulder to add fat, or some spicy chorizo (adds fat and you can still leave the burgers a bit pink).
- Sausages - been making some great venison meguez. 2/3 venison, 1/3 belly pork / back fat and using a mix from Weshenfelder. Huge hit with anyone who's tried them
- Stews - diced is great in stews. Favourite is spiced venison with chocolate https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/spiced-braised-venison-chilli-chocolate
Bumpity bump.
In the interests of reducing overgrazing, does anyone know of a butcher who can get wild venison in Rochdale/Bury?
Sounds from above like slow cooker/ninja is the answer?
I love venison.
If hunting with bow was allowed i would like to hunt my own.
In the interests of reducing overgrazing
This doesn't make sense.
Venison sourced from wild herds sustains the degraded an unnatural uplands we have in the UK....?
You’ve lost me a bit - surely the point as per the Guardian a while back is that reducing wild deer numbers reduces overgrazing, and seeing as we haven’t got any wolves…
You’ve lost me a bit – surely the point as per the Guardian a while back is that reducing wild deer numbers reduces overgrazing
In the highlands several estates deliberately keep the population higher than would be naturally sustainable in order to ensure the best hunting experience aka being able to basically guarantee a kill rather than spending a couple of days seeing nothing but midges.
Several estates? IIRC the deer population is Scotland is 10x the sustainable level hence a lot of them are malnourished and are regressing to smaller animals.
a lot of them are malnourished and are regressing to smaller animals.
So getting stuck into the venison burgers is good for the general deer population then?
Venison sourced from wild herds sustains the degraded an unnatural uplands we have in the UK….?
Haven't we now decided (and designated accordingly) that the barren upland landscapes that sheep and deer cause are what we expect and want to see in tbe countryside? So the argument now is a welfare one, keeping deer populations controlled so we don't see starving ones?
@dashed i thought about this thread after someone posted about a cull on the Hebrides on my holiday thread. whats the going rate £/kg at the dealers these days? Since posting 2 years ago we went on a butchery course locally. it was quite good, and we were taught a much better way of skinning. Had a 52kg in the fur buck the other day which was hard work. Trying to get the freezer full before the end of the season.
As an aside I'm thinking of doing dsc1 to educate myself more about the whole thing. Trying some of the online training and the hard bit for me is trying to identify gender and species from a crappy photo with no context! I'm not sure i want to actually do the stalking part, its a lot of work dragging them off the field and you need lots of equipment and so on. I'm certainly not into trophy hunting or paying 1000s to bag a stag and then let someone else gralloch it. Probably stick with the amateur butchering for now.
God I'm hungry now. Already had this week's meat... got to find venison for next week, for sure. Maybe game pie...
Venison sourced from wild herds sustains the degraded an unnatural uplands we have in the UK….?
Not if the deer are culled back low enough. Glen Feshie has regenerated without fencing because of a big cut in deer numbers.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/feb/14/cairngorms-valley-scotland-rewilding-holiday
http://www.richardbanes.com/?page_id=125