Vegetarian animals

Chickens, definitely not! I've seen ours eat frogs, baby song birds that have fallen out of the nest and mice our cat has killed.

I’m sorry, chickens eat frogs?

pandas, they have the teeth, jaws, and digestive system of a carnivore, same as other bears

Do they ...... what makes you say that? They are not bears btw

And I don't often hear of cows being described as vegetarians, herbivore appears to be the commonly used term.

Edit : I believe that the term "vegetarian" was originally coined by the British Vegetarian Society, to describe a particular human diet. I suspect that all omnivores can be selective and restrictive with their diets if they do choose.

I’m sorry, chickens eat frogs?

Yes, I've witnessed it with our free ranging flock a few times now.  I'm quite fond of amphibians and they need a helping hand so I don't encourage it. But chickens are voracious and adaptable omnivores.  We have moles in our garden, if one ever pops his head up inside the chicken coop he'd be eviscerated and scoffed in seconds.

Wikipedia say they are bears

For many decades, the precise taxonomic classification of the giant panda was under debate because it shares characteristics with both bears and raccoons. In 1985, molecular studies indicated that the giant panda is a true bear, part of the family Ursidae These studies show it diverged about 19 million years ago from the common ancestor of the Ursidae; it is the most basal member of this family and equidistant from all other extant bear species.

But yes, it was a grey area for a while (I guess grey areas are what you get with black & white things)

Ooh,  sloths are bears too, I didn't know that.

I also don't know how to paste stuff properly it seems

So what was the British Vegetarian Society called before they invented the word Vegetarian?

Wikipedia again:

Not only is their diet 99% bamboo, but it turns out that raw bamboo is very high in cyanide

Despite its taxonomic classification as a carnivoran, the giant panda's diet is primarily herbivorous, with approximately 99% of its diet consisting of bamboo. However, the giant panda still has the digestive system of a carnivore, as well as carnivore-specific genes, and thus derives little energy and little protein from consumption of bamboo. The ability to break down cellulose and lignin is very weak, and their main source of nutrients comes from starch and hemicelluloses. The most important part of their bamboo diet is the shoots, that are rich in starch and have up to 32% protein content. Accordingly, pandas have evolved a higher capability to digest starches than strict carnivores. Raw bamboo is toxic, containing cyanide compounds. Pandas' body tissues are less able than herbivores to detoxify cyanide, but their gut microbiomes are significantly enriched in putative genes coding for enzymes related to cyanide degradation, suggesting that they have cyanide-digesting gut microbes.

Chickens will eat anything, I've seen them attacking a mole and ganging up on a pheasant trapped inside the run, I'm not sue if they were trying to eat the pheasant but no doubt they woud have picked at the corpse if I hadn't rescued it

But yes, it was a grey area for a while

Fairy nuff

In answer to your question think it's only humans. I think animals "choose" their diet based on instinct, availability and biology i.e. their ability to digest different foods. It seems the most "successful" are omnivorous.  Evolving or adapting to a niche or speciality diet is risky for species survival long term.  Only humans include a moral element to diet, though it's worth mentioning some people are vegetarian for perceived health benefits as opposed to moral reasons, but of course that is still a choice a non human animal probably wouldn't make.

So what was the British Vegetarian Society called before they invented the word Vegetarian?

Well it didn't exist before they invented the word. I believe that the definition of the word vegetarian was decided at the inaugural meeting of the Vegetarian Society, apparently there was a big debate whether vegetarian should include eating eggs.

IIRC, gorillas are herbivores (though some may eat insects) but it is common for them to be given meat in zoos.

Dont think you can call any animal a vegetarian if you’re implying it’s a moral choice. As blokeuptheroad says it will be down to instinct & evolution. Some whales eat other marine animals and others plankton.

That's interesting FB.

Presumably they can eat the meat they are given, and so are omnivorous like the other great apes, including ourselves, but if they don't eat (much of ) it in the wild is that a choice? Or is it just really hard to catch?

Baby cows drink milk, but they don't buy it from the supermarket. 😉

Well thats Deer.out then.

I believe Deer will eat rabbits and some fish, and also carrion if its available.

But far as I understand it Humans are amongst the few animals that can be purely vegans. But of course thats through choice, not necessity

So can we make a choice but gorrilas, for example, can't? FB above implies that they can, and do. If we both have the correct digestive systems to be omnivors then it's a mental thing rather than a physical thing. Do we have better abilities to make choices than gorrilas? If we assume that we do then when did we get this ability, did a neanderthal or homo erectus ever decide that eating meat was wrong and see if they could just live off plants? Or do we and other omnivorous animals have the ability to make this choice but we modern humans are the only ones with the luxury of a readily available supply of sufficient suitable food to allow us to do this, rather than having to just eat whatever can find/catch?

It's obviously a no-go for a lion or an anteater but for ourselves, the great apes, extinct humans?

Cats can be fussy buggers…

They can be, but they’re not an omnivore, giving them vegetables doesn’t do them any good at all, and similar with dogs, IIRC.

Hedgehogs, in my experience, are really fussy, given an alternative to slugs and snails, which is hardly surprising considering what slugs eat; my spiny visitors wouldn’t eat cat food, only wet dog food in gravy, they didn’t like jelly. They do like cat kibbles with the soft creamy centres, but not the hard crunchy ones. They’ll go after the suet pellets the birds drop, and they love calci worms.

Go figure, as they say…

They will happily raid ground nesting birds nests and eat eggs and chicks.

Beavers are strictly herbivores, mostly eating tree bark.

Are humans the only animals where some are vegetarian, ie making a moral choice about their diet?

Humans are the only animals that make moral choices, i.e. basing decisions on abstract notions of right and wrong rather than self-interest. Animals will have preferences about food but will eat alternatives if their preferred food isn't available. They aren't making moral choices though, just acting out of self-interest.

I’m sorry, chickens eat frogs?

Chickens eat pretty much anything. Ours have a range of food from sardines to porridge with yoghurt as supplements to their 'normal' food and whatever they eat when scratching around in the garden.

Not sure who is calling a cow a vegetarian but guess it is out of ignorance rather than thinking they have chosen to eat like a vegan. Just tell them they are herbivores and they have learn't something.

Also, making a choice for animals is pretty stupid as well, i.e. getting a dog whose diet should be 75% meat and then making a choice for them that they should be a vegetarian dog.

My dog would just eat bread if she had her way.

Hens are vicious beasts for sure! Ours would eat anything and regularly chased each other around the garden if one got a fledgling fallen from a nest and then there'd be a tug of war as they tried to eat it up.

I was veggie and vegan at times decades ago before it was  'thing' (not any more and feel better for it) and at that time it was definitely seen by most other veggies/vegans as a moral/ethical thing, not a (often questionable) health choice like is today. I guess that's why there's now the 'plant based' phrase to some what differeniate between vegans who may have other restrictions like clothing etc and ethical issues, and those who just think a vegan diet is healthier.

Pretty sure animals, other than humans,  do not take morals and ethics into consideration with their food, though they obviously can have preferential food sources if they're available. I think bringing up cars and dogs as veggies/vegan is just wrong and bad for them, in the same was as us having ultra processed fake food is bad for us too. At least when I was veggie or vegan you pretty much had to cook with real foods, though some good awful tvp/soya stuff was available if you could stomach it.

No wonder pandas have black circles under their eyes. (Just like most vegans)

Also, have you ever seen a happy Panda? They all looking miserable (Just like most vegans)

With the teeth and the digestive system of carnivores just think how happy Pandas could be on a meat based diet. (Just like most vegans)

My dog would just eat bread if she had her way.

Yep, ours would just eat cakes and probably be dead within a month. Like humans dogs are pretty stupid and would live on junk food if they had a choice.

No wonder pandas have black circles under their eyes. (Just like most vegans)
Also, have you ever seen a happy Panda? They all looking miserable (Just like most vegans)
With the teeth and the digestive system of carnivores just think how happy Pandas could be on a meat based diet. (Just like most vegans)

Show me on the doll where the nasty vegan people hit you.

Chickens eat pretty much anything.

Found the tortoise tucking into a juicy slug the other day. I had always thought they were vegetarian but it seems not.

I was veggie and vegan at times decades ago before it was  ‘thing’ (not any more and feel better for it) and at that time it was definitely seen by most other veggies/vegans as a moral/ethical thing, not a (often questionable) health choice like is today

Oddly I only eat meat from big animals so that their death would fulfil the ‘needs of the many  as opposed to the needs of the one’.

I’d not want to kill something small for food or anything,I’d rather have a pot noodle and a lot of times I’ll go for the veggie options as they can sometimes be tastier.

Obviously if I find myself in the wreckage of a plane in the mountains then I’d appraise my moral/ethical  qualms accordingly 🙂

Oddly I only eat meat from big animals so that their death would fulfil the ‘needs of the many as opposed to the needs of the one’.

Yeh my FiL won't eat prawns for a similar reason. I'm not sure where the boundaries of his scaling are though? Does an animal need to feed more than one person, or is it the mass killing of prawns for one person, as opposed to one rabbit for one person?

And veggie options are often very tasty, no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not being veggie is not the same as being carnivore 😉

So what was the British Vegetarian Society called before they invented the word Vegetarian?

the British Society?

Oddly I only eat meat from big animals so that their death would fulfil the ‘needs of the many as opposed to the needs of the one’.

Pretty much the worst from an environmental aspect though.

have you ever seen a happy Panda?

They seem quite omnivorous.

https://thehappypandaco.com/

Pretty much the worst from an environmental aspect though.

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Have you seen the latest uses of mushroom mycellium? It can be grown into meat (it naturally has the umami taste), leather (which is tanned like animal leather) and that moulded carboard packaging stuff can be grown to the shape needed

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/tasty-burgers-and-steaks-made-of-mycelium-are-new-healthy-food-alternative-to-plant-based-meats/

https://www.mykko.co.uk/

https://mushroompackaging.com/

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the British Society?

No the Vegetarian Society. The Vegetarian Society of the United Kingdom to give it its full name. It was founded in 1847 and the people who founded it were the first to use the term vegetarian, they decided at the Vegetarian Society's inaugural meeting its precise meaning.

"They also went on to publish the Healthian Journal , within which was printed the first known use of the word ‘vegetarian’ in an 1842 edition, although the word was used in a way which suggested their readers had become familiar with it since the school opened in 1838."

https://vegsoc.org/who-we-are/history/#:~:text=The%20Vegetarian%20Society%20is%20formed&text=This%20idea%20was%20developed%20further,Christian%20Church%20attended%20and%20spoke.

My dog would just eat bread if she had her way.

The only thing that we have found that our dog won’t eat is lettuce using the scientific method of watching what gets hoovered up if dropped on the floor by accident. Whilst out walking his current favourites are crab apples and blackberries.

“Chickens eat frogs?”

Thats why they’re the national bird of France.

the British Society?

The Vegetarian Society of the United Kingdom to give it its full name

Note to self... use emojis next time 🙂

Yes emojis would have helped if it was intended as a joke. It just seemed like a strange question to me.

The closest I could think of was pandas, they have the teeth, jaws, and digestive system of a carnivore, same as other bears, and so could (should?) eat meat but for reasons best known to themselves have decided to eat almost exclusively bamboo, which gives them next to no nutriational value and so they have to eat loads of the stuff to get any benefit at all. Add to this their resfual to mate and it’s no wonder they are in trouble.

Panda's MO works fine until theres encroachment on their habitat (from humans basically)

They need to eat loads of bamboo, but theres loads of it... so long as they themselves don't get too populous and eat all the bamboo. Other species will eat themselves out of a habitat if they're numbers aren't culled by predators, or if threat of predation doesnt keep them moving on to new habitats. Reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone didn't so much reduce numbers grazing animals etc as keep herbivores fearful and  constantly on the move.

Pandas don't have any natural predators so they need to self limiting by having a low reproduction rate. Worked fine for millions of years I guess.

Handy medical tip: If you accidentally swallow a wooden needle, drink panda urine to dissolve the needle.

Pretty much the worst from an environmental aspect though

TBH that wasn’t known at the time  I adopted my ethical position 🙂

I do think that if you can get cheap and tasty alternatives to meat out you’ll be on a winner, it’s all about the taste of the food,if it’s well tasty and dirt cheap  I don’t think people would care if it’s plant or animal based.

The vegetable burritos in Bath are well nice and I preferred them to the meat.

I do think that if you can get cheap and tasty alternatives to meat out you’ll be on a winner, it’s all about the taste of the food,if it’s well tasty and dirt cheap I don’t think people would care if it’s plant or animal based.

As a meat eater and a greedy bastard I tend to agree. I also do make an effort to eat meat free often, and encourage people to do it once a week (because convincing 7 people to do it once a week is way more likely than one person to go full vegan)

I’d rather have a pot noodle and a lot of times I’ll go for the veggie options as they can sometimes be tastier.

To be fair, you're starting from a very low bar. Damp cardboard is tastier than most Pot Noodles. (Also vegan, I guess.)

Now, if you're talking about *real* noodles, that's a whole different matter.

(Fun fact: Chicken Pot Noodle doesn't actually contain any chicken.)