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I can hear James Hoffman tutting and shaking his head at me, but anyway...
I ilke my coffee with frothy milk. At home, Nespresso pod machine and an Aeropress are coffee devices, (BTW, like the stronger of the 2 single track coffees - v nice), and for years have had an Aerocino milk warmer and frotherer. It does a good job.
What is interesting (to me, YMMV!) is how variable the luxuriousness of the froth is. It is possible to remove device variability, but the difference in the milk is remarkable. Always semi-skimmed, (although have experimented with full fat and found the same variability), usually from Morrisons, coop, Aldi etc - the difference is not between the supermarkets - can be between 2 cartons of milk from the same store.
Sometimes you get a thin, quickly disappearing, froth and mostly just warm milk. Mostly it is kind of middling, with more froth. Sometimes it is absolutely banging - huge volume of thick luxurious froth that really makes for a lovely coffee 'milk product' as James would call it.
I'm led to believe it is not the fat content (experience agrees), but protein. Which makes sense.
But why the variability? If protein is extracted, what is it going into? Is there anything I can add to make it more consistent?
Clearly this is a crucial, time critical, issue, so responses appreciated.
EDIT: (no smut please!)
Temperature the milk starts at makes a huge difference. We have an old fridge freezer in utility we use for drinks and freezer food that doesn’t fit in the kitchen one. As it’s for drinks and infrequently opened we keep it colder/as cold as it’ll go inside ( sometimes even found the milk starting to freeze)
When I take the milk from there and put it straight into the machine - it gives very lacklustre foam that’s only just warm and quite thin
If I put it in the coffee machines cooler unit - it lets the (full fat) milk come to 4 degrees and I get consistently good foam.
I frequently switch between the two as there’s no point filling the machine for my 1 weekday coffee vs the weekend coffee. The difference is instantly noticeable.
I’m led to believe it is not the fat content (experience agrees), but protein. Which makes sense.
Really? I've found full-fat gives far better froth than semi-skimmed.
I notice that semi skimmed can't be foamed properly until it has been warmed up a bit - if you try to foam it straight out of the fridge, the foam disappears almost immediately, but if you heat the milk up a bit with the steam wand, it foams up no problem.
Skimmed foams up enthusiastically regardless of starting temperature.
No idea about full fat.
Really? I’ve found full-fat gives far better froth than semi-skimmed.
That mirrors my experience. I find it fails to froth once it gets near its use by date though.
For best results, I run the frother cold first & then at the hot setting for the thickest froth.
Age of milk also seems to make a big difference for me. If it's past its use by or bang on the date it definitely foams less or hardly at all. Still smells and tastes OK before adding to the aerocino.
Skimmed milks never made a happy froth for me.
But then the machines instructions say not to use skimmed milk as it will result in a crap froth so may be a machine thing
Milk, in coffee *shakes head, wanders off*
😉
I think those above have a point, start temperature and very probably freshness of the milk matter too.
Slight hijack.
If you like coffee Tesco has just brought in New dark roasted Swedish coffee called FIKA. Not organic like their other dark roasted coffee of the same brand but the acidity is lower. Rather nice. Give that a try.
Milk is complex
(eight years of PhD and post-doc research summarised in one sentence for you there. There's a whole industry dependent on this).
A key driver is milk fat globule membrane composition.
The commercial milks will all be homogenized which breaks the membrane up.
And pasteurized - which impacts the protein and fats further.
Then skimmed to remove milk fat for various other uses.
There will also be seasonal variation in casein content - but this is relatively minor.
Source dairy, age, and temperature will all have a role.
Buy your own cow and milk that if you want proper froth 🙂
I think you want milk from the same herd and ideally from the same milking each day. I'm an espresso drinker though, no milk
Buy your own cow and milk that if you want proper froth
Peak STW! 😬
Buy your own cow and milk that if you want proper froth
Peak STW! 😬
LOL!
All the above is very true , however , I know for a fact that our nearest university staff canteen changed milk suppliers because the milk from one farmer was not providing the frothiness of milk they had been used to and went to another farm for their supply . It turned out the cows diet had changed and the protein levels were neither high enough nor of the right type apparently. The thing about milk from large dairies is that thousands of gallons from various suppliers are mixed together and so specific qualities become homogenised into one mass product.
The amount of fat in the milk affects how it foams. Fat makes the proteins stick together less well, so the bubbles are smaller. That's why full fat milk is technically less actual foam, but that means more smaller bubbles and a smoother silkier texture which most people consider better. It's worse at being foam technically but makes a better drink.
As a parent I learned that the content of milk varies throught the day and wether or not it's the first few ml or the last few. And how long it's been since the calf was born. Also the more fresh green grass that has been eaten makes a difference which of course depends on the weather and time of year. So whilst they standardise the amount of cream 8n supermarket milk the other things may not be able to be standardised.
Duchy Originals organic milk from Waitrose is not homogenised by the way.
Try this one instead.
Tesco Finest Jersey Whole Milk 1L
Product Description
Unhomogenised pasteurised whole milk.
Rich milk with a creamy top produced by Jersey cows grazed in the UK
Whole milk with a creamy top, from pure bred Jersey cows
I’ve had variances in foam from the same bottle of milk using the same machine. Interesting thread.
Lactose free milk froth's betterer than what normal does. In my experience
Long life UHT froths better than normal milk, sterilised even more so.
If only Cresta made milk
As milk is a ‘natural’ product, and as cows’ diets change through the year, the mixture that is milk varies in its constituent parts over time. Depending on supplier, you can end up with a very local product or a more homogenous mass-production product. I’d expect the latter to be more consistent over time. The ultra-filtered milks might be less variable too.
I find some days I can get excellent microfoam and huge volume. Other days, not so much.
Older milk tends to generally be worse at foaming and can sometimes foam OK then split. Yuck!
For consistent great results I recommend Oatly barista.
If you’re committed to dairy then as folks say, UHT is generally more consistent. Otherwise, just have a spare bottle in the fridge if your first attempt is a bit off the mark.
I’ve not found that skimmed, semi, or full fat have been any more consistent than each other. Plus, skimmed is disgusting.
Sorry for absence, been busy!
Good to know re. temperature, I can experiment with taht and also if whole milk makes a difference also when warmed pre-frothing. As prettygreenparrot, my experience was inconsistent with semi or full fat. @molgrips what you say makes sense, but not borne out by my experiences. need to test more!
My questions was more related to huge variability in foaming with identical process, and it makes a lot of sense that there probably are huge variances in the stuff that gets put into the giant milk vats, and also what gets extracted. At the weekend, we had 4 cartons of Aldi semi in the fridge, bought at the same time from the same store, with the same sell by date, and one Carton was utterly spectacular for luxurious froth, but not the others.
Oat milk is a interesting thought, might give that a go as well as trying some unadulterated milk if I can find some (used to live by a farm where they had a chilled but 'straight from the cow' milk machine where you just bunged in 20p, your own bottle, and filled up. that was lush on cornflakes!
Crispin, can I keep the cow in your garden? ta!
@molgrips what you say makes sense, but not borne out by my experiences
Well like you I have seen significant variability between suppliers at the same time of year but I have not bothered to actually note down what time of year that was. It's possible that the different milks came from different suppliers with different feedstocks.
For non-homogenised milk, go to Waitrose if you have one.
Molgrips +1
the content of milk varies throught the day and wether or not it’s the first few ml or the last few. And how long it’s been since the calf was born. Also the more fresh green grass that has been eaten makes a difference which of course depends on the weather and time of year. So whilst they standardise the amount of cream 8n supermarket milk the other things may not be able to be standardised.
Winter (silage and feed fed) milk froths nowhere near as well as milk from grass fed cows in the summer.
Is it not more technique? I use my gaggia classic and never seem to have a problem getting it up
Ten to fifteen seconds just under the surface then plunge to the bottom of the stainless steel jug and I prefer 75° rather than the lukewarm bearded baristas with the 60° drink it in one go philosophy at £3.10 cost
Most milk in Central Scotland probably all from the same Graham's vat just different stickers
Is it not more technique?
No, there is a very obvious difference in milks, most notably with us it's Morrison's that's bad. I mean yes the machine and technique matter, but the milk does too.
Oat milk is a interesting thought
I've found it completely consistent in the Nespresso frother. Other milks have varied considerably from no froth to far too much to be useful or pourable. Skimmed has performed better in that setting. There is no adjustment for temperature or duration of action.
Peak STW! 😬
Peak STW was a forum member having spent eight years researching milk content 😉
Barista Oatly/ Moma Oat or the Califia ones (I buy whichever one is on offer) other so called barista versions don’t cut it & my trusty Gaggia Brera, perfect every time!
Ive been a big oatly user for years- it does froth very well! An article I read last week suggests it counts as an Ultra Processed Food though and not good for our diet. 😥
I've got a Sage coffee machine and like you, love a frothy coffee. The poor machine gets abused with me WFH 2x flat whites first thing on a morning for me and mrs pizza and then atleast another 4 throughout the day depending what I fancy, an espresso, latte, cappucino, mocha etc, and even more if I have visitors.
What I've found personally is that the age of the milk has a lot to do with it, the fresher the milk the better the froth funnily enough UNLESS you're using organic milk, that stuff seems to be like a fine wine and the closer it gets to expiry the tastier and frothier it becomes.
I did spend 6 months frothing Oatly Barista when I was developing a bit of a milk intolerance, WYSIWYG with that stuff same results every time, after a while I got partial to my lattes tasting like carpet but was glad to go back to proper dairy. With a steam wand you can usually tell a few seconds into frothing what to expect so can adjust technique to suit and mostly keep it consistent with enough milk practice.
I think since we’ve had 2 kids drinking lots of milk our delonghi froths better. I’m sure it’s because we never have old milk in the fridge as a carton barely lasts 2 days.
I found a difference as well between our old delonghi machine and it’s newer replacement. Might have been a change in design or just better steam production from the new machine.
If you’re running your steam wand cold, whoever posted that, surely you’re just diluting your milk with water?
Buy your own cow and milk that if you want proper froth
Peak STW! 😬
Duchy Originals organic milk from Waitrose is not homogenised by the way.
Top STW 👍
Tesco Finest Jersey Whole Milk 1L
Nearly there 😉
Long life UHT froths better than normal milk, sterilised even more so.
🤮