Vans and bottle jac...
 

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Vans and bottle jacks

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 ed34
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Had a flat tyre last week and tried to change it, no luck as wheel nuts were too tight to undo with the wrench that came in the van toolkit. AA sorted it, I wouldn't have been able to do it anyway as the wheels were also pretty seized on the hubs and later found out my bottle jack doesn't work!

Anyway, I can happily change a wheel on a car but am a novice with a van. My bottle jack doesn't really pump up I think it's lost its fluid. I was going to get a replacement but not sure how they work - mine has a slightly curved cradle on top to fit round the jacking point, all the ones I've seen online just have a tiny flat top, how to I jack it up safely with that? Or can I get my jack refilled with oil, probably need new seals as well

Do you van users do your own wheel changes with a bottle jack or just call AA or someone, it seems a bit more precarious than doing it on a car!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 5:35 pm
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I have a long breaker bar with impact socket attached, that lives in the van for getting the wheel nuts off.

The standard scissor jacks that come with most vehicles are usually adequate. Used the one that comes with my van loads of times it's fine. I've got other jacks but no need for them just to change a wheel.

You did undo the bolts with the wheel on the ground first didn't you? Alloy wheels are the worst for bonding to the steel hubs. A bit of copperslip on the wheels/hubs mating faces will make the job easier next time!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 5:59 pm
Matt_SS_xc reacted
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Landrover bottle jack's from a Defender/Mk1&2 Discovery are the best van jack's available. They have double height extension and have a tubular cradle on top for a good fit on axle casings. They are made by an Italian company and are better than the rebranded Chinese crap sold by Machinemart etc.

I've had two of them for general tinkering duties for years including a LWB Transit.

Various prices on eBay


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:12 pm
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no luck as wheel nuts were too tight to undo

Some vans have incredibly high torque requirements for the wheel nuts -  mercs in particular IME - you'd be unlikely to get them off with the wrench supplied in the spares kit or get them torqued up again and they'll rattle loose in a few miles if they're not tight enough.

As a comparison - 240nm for my van wheels vs 90nm for my car

If you're going to bother with the jack then you need something pretty substantial to get the wheel off too - to what extent you want to be prepared for such circumstances is up to you - I've had to fix tyres by the roadside twice in 35 years.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:17 pm
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all the ones I’ve seen online just have a tiny flat top, how to I jack it up safely with that?

What you definitely don't want to do is keep pumping away wondering why the car's not going up, only to realise you've punched a hole in the footwell. Then what you definitely don't want to do is spend half an hour swearing and trying to pull the bloody thing out, before giving up and driving off with your mate's bottle jack stuck in your car.

Moral of the story: find the correct/suitable jacking point, and maybe a bit of wood if available.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:25 pm
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all the ones I’ve seen online just have a tiny flat top, how to I jack it up safely with that?

You can get rubber adaptors for the jack seat, machined from a hockey puck.

What I'd definitely say is that if you refill the oil in your jack then make sure it's bled properly. But on that note, did you make sure the bypass valve was shut before pumping? It'll be a slotted screw at the pump body that you screw in before jacking up and unscrew to let it down.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:38 pm
 SSS
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Small trolley jack and a 3 foot scaff pole stays in the van permanently.
Much easier than the scissor or bottle jack.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:55 pm
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The last time I changed a tyre, the locking wheel nut adaptor had corroded and broke, not least because it's very hard to direct torque accurately with the tiny nut wrench. Nursed the car round the corner to the nearest Audi garage and paid £60 (!) for the correct adaptor.

Next time I won't bother - just call the AA.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 7:52 pm
 db
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I’ve got a a sgs bottle jack in my van (3t), seems to work fine. At home I prefer a trolley jack but if needs must on a hard shoulder the bottle will get the job done. I use a small plastic cap which holds it on the preferred van jacking points.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 7:59 pm
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The scissor jack that came in the kit with our Citroen relay has always been fine for jacking with. I have a wheel brace with an extending handle that slides out to about two foot long and has always been enough to undo the nuts.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 8:00 pm
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The scissor jack that came in the kit with our Citroen relay has always been fine for jacking with

Exactly and the bonus is they usually have a fitting that goes on the pinch weld (yes the pinch weld is plenty strong enough even though it doesn't look like it!) so no need for bits of wood, hockey pucks and no real way of using it in the wrong place, unless you're a complete numpty and/or wilfully ignorant to things that come with owning any vehicle.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 8:56 pm
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Nothing wrong with a puck or a bottle jack, it's just easier than using a scissor.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:23 pm
 ed34
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I've had a look at the jack and I think it's completely empty of oil, I've watched a few you tube vids and I think I'll try refilling it! How much oil would I need for a 2t jack, 500ml bottle, or 1l? It's only 3 quid for 500ml in Halfords so might as well try it but no idea how much they hold!

It's a Weber hydraulic 2t telescopic jack, but they don't have much info on the website about them. Van is 20 odd years old and looks like the jack has never been used but has been stored on its side in the tool compartment.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:23 pm
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Trolley jack does the job for me, keep a strongbar in the back for wheelbolts. (I coppergrease the hubs though) The standard scissor jack on mine does the job but only for roadside emergencies TBH

Worth checking the spare wheel hanger if its under the van too, mine seized up and I had to knacker it getting the spare out on the hardshoulder of the M1 (sketchy times)


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:36 pm
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Nothing wrong with a puck or a bottle jack, it’s just easier than using a scissor.

Of course but you have to buy these things.

If you want to spend money on something that needs maintenance when you already have a maintenance free jack designed for occasional wheel changes. That benefits from purpose designed stowage unique to your vehicle, fits the jacking points and takes the weight of said vehicle, that's up to you.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:42 pm
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Not wishing to teach Granny to suck eggs but it’s well worth spending time removing all wheel bolts one at a time and putting some Coppaslip on them before replacing them and torquing them up. Also if your Jack is mounted under the chassis like on my Trafic then I’d recommend doing the same with the bolts holding that on.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:47 pm
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Not wishing to teach Granny to suck eggs but it’s well worth spending time removing all wheel bolts one at a time and putting some Coppaslip on them before replacing them and torquing them up.

That's possibly the worst thing you could do. Torques are set dry unless stated otherwise for a specific lubricant. When you lubricate the threads you increase the stretch for a given torque which, given the already high torques on vans, could result in plastic deformation or snapping of the bolt/stud. This is why people kept stripping perfectly good Thomson stem bolts, that and a complete aversion to torque wrenches.

You should adjust the torque down according to the lubricant manufacturers instructions (in the realms of 30 to 40%) , if you can't find it then put it in dry. Copper slip is for mating surfaces only otherwise.

@chestercopperpot all fine in theory except for the fact the OP has an OEM bottle jack that now needs said maintenance/replacement. What do you suggest in that case?


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:55 pm
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He uses the maintenance free jack supplied with his vehicle and spends money on a breaker bar and socket.

He can do both, one of, or neither if he likes it's up to him.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:09 am
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He uses the maintenance free jack supplied with his vehicle

What? The buggered bottle jack with specific fitting for his jacking points that's been lying in the van tool compartment for the past 20 years from new? That maintenance free jack supplied with his vehicle?


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:16 am
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The OP responded with additional information after I responded to your post. The goalposts have moved!

Top up the jack oil first, if possible and it it works. New seals if cheaper than a 2 ton scissor jack (cheap and easy to buy) that won't need servicing ever again. But he will still need better leverage to undo the studs than the provided brace.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:52 am
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Every day is actually a schoolday. Thanks squirrelking

https://www.hextechnology.com/articles/bolt-lubricant-torque/


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 7:53 am
 IHN
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If you do use a bottle jack, check that it will go under the jacking point when you've got a flat tyre, so the van is three or four inches lower to the ground than normal. Ask me how I know...


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 8:31 am
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The OP responded with additional information after I responded to your post. The goalposts have moved!

Lmao, it was quite a bit before but for some reason the posts like to shuffle themselves about, happens all the time to me!

Every day is actually a schoolday. Thanks squirrelking

No problem, it's actually amazing how few people get taught that even at apprenticeship level.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:06 pm
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The bottle jack in the OP is the one supplied with the van - my various sprinters all came with them instead of scissor jacks - quite sought after jacks by all accounts - I wish I'd kept them.. The jacking points for those vans aren't on the sills - they seem to sell for good money to rangerover owners. - the vans aren't a unibody design and the sills aren't load bearing (which given their tendency to fill up with water and rot from the inside is probably a good thing 😉 ) A few types of van will have that separate chassis . The jacking points are are on the chassis which is a fair bit higher off the ground than the sills themselves and a fair way under the van and would be quite difficult to reach with a scissor.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:25 pm
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Yes well that's the almost idiot proof jacking option out of the window then 😉


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 2:22 pm

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