[Closed] Van warranty help. Oil failed after 6 months 4000 miles.

Six month old van? 4,000 miles? They are blaming the oil?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any engine damage?

I'd say oil is consumable and life will vary depending on how vehicle driven etc but 4000 miles isn't many. Useful that modern engine management systems can detect when oil is beginning to fail, tbh.

Oil wRning light would be because of low level or pressure.
4K miles with a new van could Be it settling in.
I’d expect it to use oil - all diesels do more than petrol however “the oil failing “ is bollocks. Well this side of 30-40k without changing it anyway!
What are the service intervals? The first service, etc?
A lot of the time it’s 5-600miles, then 5/10/15k depends on manufacturer and vehicle.
Ahh - just seen your edit.
4K to first service is shit for a modern commercial. I wouldn’t be paying this side of 10k that’s for sure and with “long life” servicing the norm is be looking closer to 15k.
Unless it’s a fully maintained contract or you have a service plan then you are paying regardless unless you can argue that it is far too short an interval.
Bearing in mind some manufacturers have an “acceptable usage” that despite it using oil will be deemed as within tolerance.

But is 4000 miles fit for purpose? I fully appreciate it's consumable but id say 1000 of those miles have been steady cruising on dual carraigeways/motorways.
Gonna be an oil change twice a year if that's the case which seems a bit harsh for a modern motor.

Oil warning was basically "change oil now" on the display. First thing I did was check the dipstick which was showing full. I've been driving vans in the same manner and the same area for 15 years and never had a service interval at 4000 miles.

Ahhh! I thought you meant the engine had blown! Unfortunately if it is on a variable service routine then its up to you (and some new cars do this as a way of looking after the new engine. My XC60 had an oil change pretty early on (I think at about 6k but could be wrong).

Is it the oil change due light? Or an oil pressure/level indicator?

New Fords have an oil change due indicator based on driving conditions. Some you can reset with ignition on (but engine not running) and press the brake and accelerator until it resets (20s?). Some are reset in the settings menu.

If its just the oil change due to usage then its just one of those things with a modern vehicle, you can change the oil or reset the indicator and change the oil at the next service as you wish.

If its lost enough oil pressure or lost enough oil to set off the warning light I would be looking at warranty.

Oil light on means the engine has been running without sufficient oil quantity, nothing to do with quality.

Id be concerned about long term engine damage.

There are two common problems on the Transits:

1: oil pump failure which wrecks the engine if ignored so ask them to perform a pressure test in your presence. Google something like " ford Transit oil pump failure"

2: the electronics telling you you need an oil change when all it really needs is an electronics reset. Google the exact error message and "ford transit" and you should get something.

The idea that the oil is do deteriorated that it really needs changing in the middle of Winter (cold) after 4000 miles is highly unlikely.

Just been on the nearest transit forum, common fault apparently. Overly sensitive or faulty oil sensor is regularly mentioned. Also regen problems mentioned quite a bit where the dpf system is dumping unburnt diesel in to the sump. So it looks like suck it up buttercup!

It would be based on the number of stop/starts , fuel fills, and hours running , hundreds of stop/starts and very few hours running would kill the oil and trigger the oil change and quite rightly so.
Unless there is a faulty sensor or software problem . There is likely an early service schedule based on type of usage, if it has not had the harsh service life ever - stop/start etc then you could ask them to print out the number of start/stop/hours etc if you want to make the case.

There'll be a sensor monitoring the contaminants in the oil, either righty or wrongly it's advising an oil change is due. On a new engine, the first service may come sooner than normal.

Get it changed (whoever pays) and hopefully the second oil change won't need doing quite so soon.

Also regen problems mentioned quite a bit where the dpf system is dumping unburnt diesel in to the sump.

I had a case recently with a defective Land Rover engine, and on investigation this came up as a major problem (though not actually in that case!), leading to the engines basically crapping themselves if the oil wasn't changed as a result of oil dilution with the fuel.

If it were me, for the sake of a few quid, I'd get it done ASAP.

Do they not need a running in service? Used to be the case that all engines needed an oil change fairly quickly from new as the oil filter is picking up any crud leftover from manufacturing. And there's plenty, I used to test new engines for cleanliness!

Useful that modern engine management systems can detect when oil is beginning to fail

Do they, or do they just make an assumption based on some sort of integral equation of throttle position and milage?

As someone who works selling vans I would be looking in a slightly different direction.

Your vehicle may have been new to you 6mths ago, BUT that does not mean the oil is 6mths old or that the service schedule started from the day you purchased it.

I have witnessed vehicles sold brand spanking new which not only required their first service to be carried out prior to sale, they have even required brake fluid changes. This is due to them being built and either sitting in manufacturers stock or dealership stock for anything upto 2yrs. By this time, as per most manufacturers servicing schedules oil has to be changed either at ‘x’ mileage or 2 yrs.

I would be trying to find out if they sold me a old stock vehicle which had limited time until the inevitable service light came on.

Oil light on means the engine has been running without sufficient oil quantity, nothing to do with quality.

Id be concerned about long term engine damage.

I disagree completely - the light doesn't come on when it is causing damage, it comes on to prevent you from causing damage.

'Do they, or do they just make an assumption based on some sort of integral equation of throttle position and mileage?'

Sensor in the sump that uses ultra sound to detect the degradation of the oil (combined with stop/starts/ time/distance etc).

guy at work had his mazda lunch its self after a regen.

get the oil changed and see where it goes from there

I would be trying to find out if they sold me a old stock vehicle which had limited time until the inevitable service light came on.

Now that is something I mentioned on the phone to the ford lady, I knew the van was old stock as it wasn't the latest facelift model which is why it was discounted. Not pre registered etc and only had 13 miles on the clock but had definitely been sitting there a while.
I've no problem changing the oil, but there's no way it would be done at ford main dealer every 4000 miles.

If we come across it we wouldn’t hesitate to service the vehicle accordingly FOC to try to fend off an angry customer who has basically been short changed.

You bought a brand new vehicle which in the service booklet probably states 2yrs or whatever miles to a service. You haven’t got that. You could also push for the fact that this is just the oil change service and you are now likely to have to pay for the much more expensive full service sooner than expected.

Shouldn’t be too difficult to demand a build date for your vehicle from the vehicle manufacturer customer services dept when you complain about them selling old stock

but there’s no way it would be done at ford main dealer every 4000 miles.

Isn't the point made up there somewhere that it probably won't have to be? Once the initial oil change (to clear the running in debris etc) it'll most likely be fine on the regular schedule thereafter.

I’m not sure the warning system is as clever as is made out. Got the 30k mile service done at 29k, slightly over 30k the change oil light came on. I reset the light and haven’t seen it again, 16 plate just coming up for its 90k service.

One thing I did discover, amongst the myriad of warning lights, beeps and auto lights etc there’s no Brake pad wear warning light. Which is annoying.

Castrol GTX magnatec is half price in Halfords at the moment. 8 litres for £32.

(Just in case you want to change it anyway...)

What happened to the days when the oil light only came on when there was none left?

This is an ongoing issue for Ford Transits and Tourneos with the EcoBlue Euro 6 engines.

Last week mine was in for the 3rd time in 19000 miles for this. They will warranty it if there is a "security update" for the vehicle but not if it has the latest update.

The problem is that on the Ecoblue engines the Adblue is injected into the cylinder just prior to the exhaust stroke rather than the exhaust manifold. Unfortunately you end up with blow past of the cylinder rings of any Adblue left in the cylinder and contamination of the oil hence triggering the sensor.

Fords first attempt to fix was to increase the engine oil capacity from 7L to 9L and change the sensor trigger value. They have since released 2 more "security updates" to to bodge the trigger value. I was informed that Ford will no longer be warrantying this issue too.

If this is the case I'll hand the van back as one of the main reasons for buying was the 36000 mile or 2 year service life. Currently I am on 6500 miles or 4 months which is unacceptable.

The problem was confirmed by the friendly head tech at the main dealer after I bought them a pack of donuts to apologise for any problems they got after the shitstorm I gave the useless and lying service desk muppets.

Ask to see the laboratory analysis of the oil describing it's deteriorated state. When they can't produce one backing their claim of bad oil, invite them to get one or change the oil gratis.

Well I have a transit pick up 7 k on the clock and I haven't lifted the bonnet yet, it does drink the ad blue though
Last one 16 plate got its first service at 25000, the actual first oil change is 30000, never added any oil as it never used any

I am not familiar with the Ford system but most if not all oil life monitoring systems don't analyse the oil. They use data from the engine management system temperature with ambient and engine, load, mileage, run time, idle time etc etc run it through an algorithm and hey presto. So the van sitting would presumably affect this.
The low pressure warning light should be renamed the "catastrophic engine damage now occuring" light because the trigger threshold for most is so low that you wouldn't have time to get off the road and get the engine stopped before you engine eats itself.

Fair play to the dealer. I asked to speak to someone from the actual technical side of things after I told the fordlady I wasn't happy. Anyhoo 90 mins later he rang me, apparently (t's and c's) Ford have a policy where there is now a fair minimum mileage to keep within warranty parameters, all to do with short journeys etc and how on starting, diesel is injected here there and everywhere to start regens and so on. I explained i thought it was bollox as I'll still be doing 7/8k a year and it's hardly just nipping to the shops twice a week. He gave me some tech details regarding updates and changing what the vans are looking for regarding the oil density or some shizzle. It all resulted in a free oil and filter change and a look at the van again in 4k or 6 months time. We shall see what happens....

I have the same engine transit for work.

Mine is 17 plate, done 17k miles now. Refilled with 10L adblue three times.

First time it came up for service Ford said it was an inspection service only, and they topped the oil up. A month later it came up change oil now which was probably after 12-13k miles.

I think it’s a decent engine, smoother than the old ones, decent torque and quieter in the cab.

Thanks for the warning. 2500 miles on ours so at least we wont panic when the warning light comes on

mines just done this at 23,000 miles, Ford Transit Custom, 130hp Auto 67 plate, was bought cheaply as it was prefacelifty and had been a dealer demonstrator with only 900 miles on the clock, don't know where to proceed when I get to the 36,000 mile service now..

30k mile oil intervals sound scary 😮

As others have said, its a known issue to Ford. I think there is also an issue regarding the oil dipstick being too short and giving false readings.
Ive got a 67 plate DCIV with the 170 engine and (touch wood) everythings been ok up to 13k over 12 months.
Getting it book in for the "have a look service" . Costs about £100 and extends your breakdown service for another year.
Has yours had the security update ?

Whats the security update. Ours will have an annual service with them as its seems a no brainer for the Breakdown Cover. Also done this from 2015 with the motorhome which has the 2.2 engine.

Whats the security update

If you open the drivers door with the key, you should not be able to open the rear doors just by unlocking the central locking.

See here https://www.vanman.co.uk/ford-transit-custom-ford-transit-get-security-updates

Oh, and for the OP , there is a note about the oil light here further down.......

https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/2017/ford-transit-security-update/

It had the update yesterday, mine is also dciv sport. It was down as a recall but clearly wasn't worth a recall prior to the oil issue!

I think they are just a little busy sorting out oil issues, door hinge issues , security updates etc.
Have you had any issues with the hill start engaging when you are driving along slowly (and not on a hill). This ( and a flat battery after some dick head at airport parking left the headlights on) is the only issue I have had with mine. Its only when going slow, and switching off and on again clears it. Only happened twice, and now i know what it is im not worried.

Only problem with ours was a sticking open thermostat which they were aware of. Even with a new one fitted it still takes alot longer (5 miles) for it to get up to the normal and then hovers just below the middle.

Didn't read all of the above so it's probably been mentioned. My Transit Custom was exactly the same, Ford eventually admitted it was a firmware issue and updated it with a free oil change. Been perfect now for 6 months or so. The firmware update also displays on the dash when it's doing a DPF regen so you know to keep driving until it's done.

^^^that would be really handy, I've not seen anything like that on mine though?

Most of my driving is around town. "Exhaust Filter Cleaning" message comes on about every 10 days once up to temperature and out on the open road. Takes about 6 miles of driving to finish the regen. I usually drive in 3rd at 50mph whilst it's doing its thing. Don't know if this helps or not.

Doesn't seem to drink Adblue as much now also.

I'm running my 2.4Tdci transit and Volvo V70 on 5k oil changes!

10k a year for both vehicles. Volvo is on 180k and doesn't use a drop of oil. I do my own servicing though so cheap insurance.

I ran my previous Citroen Relay on 30k oil services, did 240,000 miles with no issues... 😀

Just booked mine in for the 12 month check and the lady on the phone said oh we can do the 2 recall updates on it at the same time.
1 . The security update (even though mine seems to do what it's meant to after you have had it)
2. Brake booster check. Looking on another forum it appears it's a check to see if the servo is up to the job.

Might be worth checking here to see if you have anything outstanding

http://www.etis.ford.com/fordservice/home.do;jsessionid=ONcHgWz6Q2fOivdg-cfkQQIO-m7LU2hRQMAg4n8V.eccvas1900j

Just been on that link, mines a 2012 model apparently 😳😳😳

Ha, wasn't just me then. I'm guessing it's just the year that the Custom started.....