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So I'm aware there are a few different rules for vans but not really any details
As a potential 1st time van owner looking for a cheat sheet...
So a van with too many seats is a minibus... and if I'm correct that's regardless of if seats are being used?
If seats are removed then I assume it needs to be reregistered or something and that costs money? does it need some sort of inspection as well? What sort of money?
I have a (clean) Class C so other than minibus I can't see any other restrictions from my license??
Any other things to be aware of? (other than speed limits)
edit... looking on autotrader why do some say "no vat"? is this assuming a trade sale or is there some exclusion I don't know about?
If they don't say "no vat", you generally have to pay an extra 20% on top of the asking price.
Which you can reclaim if you are purchasing via a VAT-reg business.
There are lower speed limits for most vans on single national speed limit roads and dual carriageways, observation of those lower limits is patchy at best.
A minibus will be class M / passenger carrying vehicle on the v5. A regular panel van will be class N / goods carrying vehicle. Most combis are N, but some are M. Mine is M. Lower speed limits on A roads apply to N. N tax is at a lower level (usually) based on when it is registered and the euro rating, and M is as per cars so emissions based so expect it to be higher.
Not sure on the seats and getting it reclassified.
If they don’t say “no vat”, you generally have to pay an extra 20% on top of the asking price.
Which you can reclaim if you are purchasing via a VAT-reg business.
Yeah but am I paying anyway?? As in if I later registered a business would I then be able to claim vat on one that said "no vat"? Are they just including in the price?
Yeah but am I paying anyway?? As in if I later registered a business would I then be able to claim vat on one that said “no vat”? Are they just including in the price?
No, if it says no VAT you aren't paying VAT, you can only claim back VAT you have paid. so there would be none to claim back.
No, if it says no VAT you aren’t paying VAT
Ah, is there a specific reason some are "no vat" and others not?
Generally vans that have previously been privately owned or a not VAT registered business are the no VAT ones. The VAT is generally NOT included in price for VAT vans, so the price you pay is whatever you negotiate + 20%. It's a bit of a stinger.
tthew
Ah, that makes sense now.
Ah so just checked and I have D1 and D1E. So that seems top say I can drive a minibus and trailer.
I was going to ask if a towbar mounted bike rack counts as a trailer...
Any other things to be aware of?
Yes. Everyone you know will now come to you when they buy a new 3-piece suite.
Yeah, it's only youths who don't automatically get D1/ D1E.
Also trivial but annoying stuff like hassle using the local tip and sometimes higher toll fees
Yes. Everyone you know will now come to you when they buy a new 3-piece suite.
LOL, I expect so... it feels like a minefield, probably I guess because I don't really know what to look for in a van vs car. I've been pretty good/lucky with private sales for cars over the years and usually I think because I'll walk away if I don't think it's been maintained.
Vans seem a different world with commercial owners etc. and their motivation to sell.
Keeping the minibus/combi as M1 instead of converting to N1 will keep tip runs and most tolls less hassle. Ie it is just another car for these purposes.
What are you looking at btw? I'm sure there will be lots of real world experience of any van here.
What are you going to use said van for? Traveling? Plumbing? Solving crime? Or a bit of everything?
What are you going to use said van for? Traveling? Plumbing? Solving crime? Or a bit of everything?
The car won't get through the MOT end Jan unless I spend more than it's worth.(might not make it till then).. and frankly its not the best for hauling MTB's about.
We need 2 seats mostly but could do with 2.5 (child).
Come the new year I hope to be starting something different (not really sure what) and preferably with bikes. Either way intention so for weekends/weeks away but leaving as much space as possible so no hard camper conversion planned. If we want to sleep I can take a tent or even looked at the roof tent things or just chuck down a camping mat or 2.
I'd like to get some bikes in and be able to work on them in the van.
Probably no plumbing and very limited crime solving... 😉
I was going to ask if a towbar mounted bike rack counts as a trailer…
It doesn't have wheels, therefore it's not a trailer.
very limited crime solving…
Is that because you're in a safe crime area or because you're skills aren't in Hetty Wainthrop League 😁
Yak
What are you looking at btw? I’m sure there will be lots of real world experience of any van here.
Something goes under height barriers but pref MWB/LWB. If I can fit bikes across that might be a huge bonus.
Just a quick search along the lines of... this? Would possibly be better with towbar already attached.
Is that because you’re in a safe crime area or because you’re skills aren’t in Hetty Wainthrop League 😁
Mainly the latter .... I was thinking more of buying a dog and calling it Scooby... then solving the odd haunted house mystery then after I solve it someone mutters "it'd all be all right if it wasn't for that meddling codger"
Ah, a big race van. A lwb panel van e.g. transit custom, trafic, vito, transporter will fit under a 2m barrier but won't have the space of the one you linked to ie full standing height inside.
Why would you need a bike rack on the back with a truck that big? You'd get about 10 in there with all the wheels on and still have room for camping holiday kit! And that'll pretty much have 3 full size seats up front, unless the child is in a child seat you won't need a row behind.
If you are intending it to be a daily driver, that Vauxhall will be a royal PITA. Nowhere near fitting in a car park bay or under a height barrier.
Yeah, it’s only youths who don’t automatically get D1/ D1E
Does being 40 and under count as being youths? 🤗
The very best thing about my caravelle is that it’s a car, not a van and not a minibus. This means speed limits, going to the tip, toll roads (except the m6) are all groovy
I have no problems with insurance - under £200 this year. If it was a shuttle it would be double that - insurers like “normal” and telling them you’ve got a minibus but you’re not doing airport runs on the side and they will often shi7 a brick. Modify it by removing seats - same thing, loads will just not quote
Shirly Caravelle = LuxuryAirports2U
California Beach owner 😉
Me - I have grief at the tip because the its run by idiots (not the operatives, their bosses). Because it's a 'shaped like a van' I only get 12 trips a year, so don't believe the DVLA designation is the end of it when it comes to morons.
Looks like a nice van, can I have the racking if you don need it...?
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/van-rules-costs-generalvantrackworld/#post-11517030
The rules in our council area are vans, minibuses and camper vans get 12 visits a year - I had to calmly explain the rules to a few chumps on the phone before I got to the organ grinder who conceded that a caravelle is a car so now I’ve got a written letter I can wave about like an access all areas badge. Actual lads in the tip are sound - only ever have an issue when their gaffer is about and I think they quite like having me put him in his place.
I guess the beach has motorcarvan on the logbook rather than car tho?
Why would you need a bike rack on the back with a truck that big?
You’d get about 10 in there with all the wheels on and still have room for camping holiday kit!
When we use space in my mates T5 to lock a bike overnight it's a real crush to get 4 bikes without starting taking bits off or rotating bars but your probably right, I just wanted to keep options open.
And that’ll pretty much have 3 full size seats up front, unless the child is in a child seat you won’t need a row behind.
Yep .. I don't expect the 3rd seat will ever be used but it's not worth the hassle of buying something can't take 3 of us.
If you are intending it to be a daily driver, that Vauxhall will be a royal PITA. Nowhere near fitting in a car park bay or under a height barrier.
I don't really drive anywhere without bikes but I suspect I'd start noticing more places have height barriers.
I guess the beach has motorcarvan on the logbook rather than car tho?
DVLA designation is Motor Caravan but chumps aren't interested in that - just that it looks like a van and therefore I must be a tradesman with a ton of plasterboard to get rid of despite it being full of seats and windows all-round.
^ seems poor. I go weekly to the tip in a combi and have no problems. My number plate is pre-registered with the council for tip purposes so they know what it is.
My recycling centre has gone up in my estimation as I've never had a problem driving a T6 in there. They look at the waste rather than the vehicle and are happy for sign written vans as long as the waste is clearly 'household' and not connected with a trade.
@stevextc - maybe hire a smaller lwb panel van for a weekend of bike stuff and see how you get on? Might be enough space or might firm up the idea for a bigger van like the movano. Or hire a large van and see if it manages any daily duties you might need it for ok?
Yak
– maybe hire a smaller lwb panel van for a weekend of bike stuff and see how you get on? Might be enough space or might firm up the idea for a bigger van like the movano.
Yep seems sensible. I guess the thing is the higher one I'll notice popping to Surrey Hills and all sorts of places I've forgotten the height restrictions.
I'm probably looking too "moon on a stick" after all we manage with the 330 though I hate leaving the bikes on the back seat overnight.
Yeah, lots of trail carparks are height limited.
If I was choosing again I would go for a LWB combi (I need rear seats). And probably a transit custom. Local garage is rating the euro 6 2.0 engine as more reliable than the euro 5 2.2 (but the euro 6 is newer) and out of the 2.2s, the ones they are seeing with problems are lower output tuned ones, but the higher output or remapped ones are doing ok.
No ones mentioned fuel economy.
Rough guide on the motorway, a berlingo/connect/caddy does 50mpg
A Custom/T6/Traffic does about 35mpg.
A Sprinter/Crafter/Movano (and now Transit now that they've dropped the Iveco branding from the big version) does <27mpg, especially the RWD ones).
And check the mpg at the pump, like cars the computer on the dash is wildly optimistic.
Depends how many miles you do and how much polution bothers you. But £100+ for a tank of diesel in the work van stings a bit when it does the same as miles as the Berlingo does on £60 (and with a bit of effort the berlingo will take 3 + 3 bikes, or 1 + bike + camp bed and cooking facilities. It'd be a very high price to pay if you did 90% of the miles with nothing more than the weekly shop and a bike in the back.
No ones mentioned fuel economy.
Yeah it's a consideration though although I'm not sure what I'm going to be doing in the New Year life/work wise... a mobile workshop may play some part in it.
and with a bit of effort the berlingo will take 3 + 3 bikes, or 1 + bike + camp bed and cooking facilities.
It needs to house myself and the kid... and 4 bikes would be nice... with a LOT of effort I can get 3 bikes inside the E90 330D which used to get 50mpg on long motorway runs
This guy is a mate and can be trusted.
@Weeksy
Any idea on price and stuff? (Before I register)
I'm looking up to £12k (could stretch but not much)
Happy if you pass my email/phone etc. over if it's not wasting their time.
Peoples Ford have offered me £14411 as a trade in against a new van late January
So i'm guessing not mate sorry.
Well could move somewhere on the trade in but late Jan is probably* too late. Not sure the car would make it TBH
Shall I ping him your number, I don't think he needs the can currently, that's just when his new one is ready
Don't think anyone has mentioned higher road tax yet. Don't forget about that.
Caught me out when I got my van. Assumed I'd get it cheap as it's a small van with a small engine.. nope £250 odd year..
I think it's that much if the van has a 1 ton or greater capacity.
Yes the VED might be higher than some cars. But you've GOT A VAN, which is priceless.
Yes the VED might be higher than some cars. But you’ve GOT A VAN, which is priceless.
This....and this.
Don’t think anyone has mentioned higher road tax yet. Don’t forget about that.
Caught me out when I got my van. Assumed I’d get it cheap as it’s a small van with a small engine.. nope £250 odd year..
Yes and no. I think the VED is (relatively!) cheap. I pay the same, now £260/year, for my 2.2L diesel LWB Transit. This is loads cheaper than the 2L petrol MPV I had before, the flat rate for van benefits me. I don't know what the chap I'm quoting has, but if it's the same for a Berlingo or Combo or something that will be a lot more than the car they're based on and so it will seem expensive to them.
I have a Merc Vito Duoliner SWB. 5 seats and side windows make it fit the big car category in everything - tax, insurance, no need for a tip licence etc. I needed it as the family car when the S-Max was too small. Its been absolutely perfect for bikes (can fit 6), bike races, a changing room, mud, dogs, band PA, sofas and camping gear. Take the seats out and its a cavernous monster van.
Way better value than the overrated overpriced VWs.
The only problem we ever have is indoor car park height restrictions - most are too low.
And front tyres. Vito's are known to eat them for breakfast lunch and dinner.
I am about to sell it, now time to downsize to a big estate since less of the list is now needed. 2008 110kmiles
PM me if you want the details. (Or anyone else reading this thread who might want one)
Vans seem a different world with commercial owners etc. and their motivation to sell.
IME it seems that people get a new car every three years or because they fancy a chagne or don't like the colour or whatever. People seem to get a new van only when the old one is broken.
Vast quantities of knackered vans out there, took me three months to find a good one, and that was £1,500 over my original budget. They are out there, but proper rocking-horse poo until you are well into five figure prices
Yep I think the traders hoover them up and slap an extra £4k on the asking price.
IME it seems that people get a new car every three years or because they fancy a chagne or don’t like the colour or whatever. People seem to get a new van only when the old one is broken.
Vast quantities of knackered vans out there, took me three months to find a good one, and that was £1,500 over my original budget. They are out there, but proper rocking-horse poo until you are well into five figure prices
Yep... seems to be the case.