You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Just back from several months abroad and my little 2016 vauxhall combo (100k miles) work van i bought last year wouldn't start. Suspected starter motor as the battery had been left on charge. Garage just phoned engine completely seized. They said 3k new engine and probably not worth it. I'm devastated. Due back at work tomorrow really needed to earn some money after time off. Self employed gardener. Also had forked out for new suspension and tyres last year. Van is a great little van for what i need and I don't see much available locally for under 8k.
Wwstwd?
Pay the 3k, it's 5k less than 8k. And you'd have new suspension and tyres.
Garage just phoned engine completely seized.
Whaat? After not being turned over for three months? That sounds implausible...
Only thing I can think of is that "something" has filled a cylinder with liquid and on trying to start it's hydrolocked, which would destroy it.
Whaat? After not being turned over for three months? That sounds implausible…
^^^^ That. Something else has happened. Second opinion or ask for a breakdown(no pun intended) of what's happened to get it that way.
My father had similar after buying a dead vehicle which had been a runner then left for ages to sieze.
He whipped the head off, cut a short length of fence post to drop on top of the piston, and whacked it with a large hammer till each piston moved.
Cycled it a bit with some oil, then put back together and it ran just fine.
This was a Morris Minor in the late 60's, but the spinny siezed parts are still essentially hte same.
Might be worth a try before shelling out for a new engine.
Have they said why it is seized?
Leaking injector filled the combustion chamber with fuel and its now hydro locked?
An engine doesnt seize up whilst its not being run. Nopt for decades and decades. Get a second opinion (or have a look yourself and think logically!).
Only thing I can think of is that “something” has filled a cylinder with liquid and on trying to start it’s hydrolocked, which would destroy it.
Yeah I agree with that but how the hell does that happen unless it's been in a flood? Even if you left the bonnet off in the rain.
Leaking injector filled the combustion chamber with fuel and its now hydro locked?
Perhaps, but is there enough fuel and pressure in the fuel rail to do this? And even then it wouldn't damage anything if it hadn't even turned over would it?
It's quite possible the garage is trying it on.
Only thing I can think of is that “something” has filled a cylinder with liquid and on trying to start it’s hydrolocked, which would destroy it.
Yeah I agree with that but how the hell does that happen unless it’s been in a flood? Even if you left the bonnet off in the rain.
A failed head gasket allowing coolant to leak into the cylinder might do it?
When you tried to start it, was it turning over at all? I think it's more likely the starter had seized, and get the hammer out.
be surprised if they have declared it seized without at least putting a bar on the crank nut......
while as a garage i may not do it ..... if it was me id have the plugs or injectors out fire a wedge of diesel or ATF/acetone in the cylinder over night then turn it in the morning.
Then see where i stand.
So, it doesn't turn over & they have decided it's seized.
Ask them to take the head off & show you why, or at least pull the injectors & stick a bore-scope inside. It sounds suspiciously like the an injector is leaking, or the head gasket has gone & they are either too lazy to check properly, or have already done more damage themselves.
be surprised if they have declared it seized without at least putting a bar on the crank nut……
while as a garage i may not do it ….. if it was me id have the plugs or injectors out fire a wedge of diesel or ATF/acetone in the cylinder over night then turn it in the morning.
This.
Soak the cylinders and then get a socket and bar onto the crank.
An engine doesnt seize up whilst its not being run.
Well it can but generally it requires water sitting in a cylinder to have corroded it.
Wwstwd?
speak to the garage and ask them what makes them think its seized.
They should have done a decent amount of diagnosis to reach that conclusion, including trying to turn it over by hand , so they should be able to tell you why they think its seized.
assuming it genuinely is seized ask them if they have tried to un-seize it, using the methods up suggested by people up there.
If it genuinely has seized, and cant be unseized , then a second hand engine from a breakers sounds like a reasonable option to get it going again - if you say a new equivalent van would be 8k.
Whaat? After not being turned over for three months? That sounds implausible
where did it mention 3 months ? could be anywhere between 4 and 16 months going by the OP .....
Escort Diesel van years ago had the timing belt snap within a few seconds of starting. Could it be that? Mine just needed a new cylinder head, was still expensive though.
More information required
What exactly did it do when you turned the key?
Nothing, clickey click, whirrr whirr whorr but no vrrrroooommm?
Good ignition lights?
Were the headlights bright, battery could have simply died on you.
If it refused to crank on the key it could be hydrolliced.
Been sat 5 months. Sloped drive. Windy position, near the coast (few mikes)
They have tried to manually crank it with bar. Other half went down and watched them do it. Well respected local garage.
Seen a very similar van available 4.5k private. Same milage and year (100k/ 2016)but obviously totally unknown entity.
3k plus vat fitted if i want to they were not pushing this BTW it's me asking them after looking at what's around locally although briefly. Just moved back into our house and got sick dog and cat so feeling rather stressed out. Appreciate all the help
It did not start at all btw.
Bummer, I feel your pain mate.
I'd go for the replacement engine if it comes to it, rather than scrapping it and paying more for someone else's problems.
Yeah - new engine :o)
You know the rest of the van is good and you can't say that for a secondhand van.
Is there anyone local to you who does engine rebuilds rather than shelling out for a complete new engine?
I'd get it hole and persevere a bit.
Get a bit of fluid (diesel or ATF) in there and let it sit for a while.
I bought a tractor that had been sitting a long time and was seized. I had the luxury of time and after soaking for a few weeks it broke free and ran fine afterwards.
I'm still surprised that it's siezed in such a short period of time.
I’d get it hole and persevere a bit.
Get a bit of fluid (diesel or ATF) in there and let it sit for a while.
I bought a tractor that had been sitting a long time and was seized. I had the luxury of time and after soaking for a few weeks it broke free and ran fine afterwards.
Yep, this is the thing to do,if you have the time and a bit of mechanical know how to do it.
If you don't have the time/know how, then it's probably new engine time.
One possibly is that there was no antifreeze in the coolant.
In which case it's .....
Not great news.
What are you getting for £3k? When the head went on my 2003 combo I was quoted £500 to fit an engine if I sourced it - and I could have it delivered to them. This was London prices as well.
Would a recon engine not be a bit cheaper
recon engines is a dodgy game, you need to be very sure of the reputation from whoever it comes from if you consider ths approach.
One possibly is that there was no antifreeze in the coolant.
In which case it’s …..
Not great news.
Not sure why this would cause an unused engine to sieze.
Not sure why this would cause an unused engine to sieze
No antifreeze means the coolant can freeze, if the coolant freezes , as it freezes and expands it can crack the block and/or cylinder head, if the block/head cracks ,when the coolant later melts it leaks out of the crack into a cylinder which either hydrolocks the engine or causes corrosion leading to a siezed piston.
Agreed but without knowing where in the uk the van is....
A few miles from the coast is always warmer than inland.
It hasn't been a harsh winter.
Hot oil used to be a trick tp free stuck rings quickly. Need about 1ltr at around 90c, a chip pan thermometer is useful.
Then whip out the injectors and pour it in witj a funnel mafe of metal.
Get a 2nd opinion. Take it to a specialist that deals in just engines / rebuilds if possible.
What's the van worth in that condition? What does that plus £3000 get you?
Don’t forget that while the used van prices are high the supply and demand issue relates to your van as much as anyone else’s - it may not run but that doesn’t necessarily make it ‘scrap’. As a non running but otherwise good condition van it might well sell for more than you think in the current climate. So in calculating the relative merits of fixing the van you’ve got or buying something else don’t assume it’s valueless.
Some folk have a massive faith in the sealing of those piston rings.
All fairly easily provable by dropping the oil and also checking the coolant level.
If the coolants entered the chamber over a period then the oil level will be up and fairly emulsified / will separate out if left sitting.
Before writing the engine off I'd recommend endoscoping the cylinders at the very least. Five months wouldn't make a perfectly good engine seize and any liquid accumulation would be evident in the cylinders. An oil change keeping an eye out for any rust/other liquid in the oil wouldn't hurt either.
Perhaps also consider a tow to an independent specialist of that brand or a garage that specialises in engine work. And if it wont start a refurb may be cheaper than a whole new engine.
As a marine engineer I once worked on a project to revive some marine dieselss on a very large ship that had been laid up for several years with no real prep or maintenance. When I crawled into the crankcase the amount of corrosion all over the con-rods/crankshaft was plain scary and even with 4 men on the turning bar it wouldn't crank over at all due to seized pistons as a result of condensation accumulating in the cylinder. Three months and half a million pounds later it was running like new.
Not sure what to do. No knowledge of mechanics myself. I was going to go ahead with the work but after contacting another mechanic I know he recons they aren't great vans so now not sure about throwing any further money at it. Also would be 2 weeks before garage could fix it and hire van is £280 a week.
Sell it as spares/repair and buy a better van. In the meantime buy a £500 Ford Galaxy, take out the seats and use that as a van. If you are worried about theft, tint the rear windows 😁
What county are you in?
Someone on here who is ok with the spanning might pop rpund on Saturday morning. Theu should be able to tell you within am hour whats most likely failed.
Im wondering if its something entirely random like starter motor jammed on flywheel teeth. Its very odd that is was fine, then seized solid in a few months.
If it was me i would get it home. Get some plus gas spray imto the cylinders.
Wait a few hours, re spray it.
Then let it sit overnight then try and rock it using the weight of the van to get things moving, with the injectors out and battery disconnected
In the meantime buy a £500 Ford Galaxy, take out the seats and use that as a
van.shed
as in the current market anything at 500 quid is going to either be a major liability or not road legal.....
When I crawled into the crankcase
Got love marine engineering!
There are reputable engine specialists and then there are....
At about 3:30 in
I would buy another van which you can sell in a few months, you’ll probably sell for what you buy it for so won’t lose money, that way you aren’t under time pressure to sort out your current van.
I don’t buy that the engine has seized due to corrosion after 5 months (5 years maybe). I work as a bus mechanic, we had a bus catch fire and it burned a hole in the plastic rocker cover, the fire crew put the bus out and so filled the engine full of water through the hole, it stood for months the water was drained out of the sump, new oil and filters and it’s still running to this day, even I didn’t believe it at the time.
As others have said the engine could be seized due to coolant filling one of the cylinders due to a failed head gasket or cracked head (so a new head gasket and sending the head away to test for cracks won’t be mega money maybe £1k all in) another reason for seizure could be a leaking diesel injector, which has stripped the cylinder of lubrication and so caused it to seize, if this is the case, scoring of the cylinder would be visible with an endoscope with the injector removed; again as others have said, do nothing without evidence.
If you decide to scrap it, you could always try the brute force method as a last resort...flat tow it and try to bump start it! If it's truly seized your clutch will start smoking very quickly...
1 check coolant level, if it's down that's bad news as the missing coolant could have seeped into a cylinder.
2 glow plugs out and see what you can see. See if there's any liquid you can pull out with a syringe. If not, spray in the derusting fluid of your choice. Leave it a day then pull out any liquid in the cyclinders with a syringe and tube.
3 roll it down hill in top gear clutch down and then drop the clutch. It'll lock the wheels or turn over.
Thanks for all the input. After a stressful week things may be looking up. I will update tomorrow.
Update! I drove my little van to work yesterday! After the advice on here I got a second opinion on my combo, a semi retired mechanic i have bought a couple of vans off in the past and who used to work on my vans but has moved out of town slightly. Last Wednesday morning I collected the keys from Wxxxxe Garage and paid the £150 they had charged me for putting on a new starter motor and then taking it off again and diagnosing a seized engine. They had not refitted the old starter motor but left it on the seat. Later that morning Jim came and took the keys on a horrible wet and windy day.
The next day I had two missed calls from Wxxxne whilst I was shopping and when I phoned them back they said they had talked to the guy working on my van outside the garage and he said it looked like the alternator that had seized solid, stopping the engine from turning over. They were very sheepish and said if it's that they should have noticed and i could have my money back.
Jim had it recovered somewhere he could work on it and i got it back on Monday evening and he only wanted £510. 3hrs labour plus parts and recovery! Obviously he's getting a big tip. I'm so grateful and relieved. It also looks like the suspension work Wxxxne did last year was unnecessary as it was originally thought to just need a new top mount on one side but apparently this garage is well known for charging as much as possible and doing extra things. I went round in the van last night to get my refund and they were really apologetic and also offered a free service. Obviously they don't want any bad reviews and I'm sure Jim who knows them said something to them.
Jim is happy to help me with future work so that's a weight off.
Thanks all!
Great result
Been following this with trepidation, what a fab result
Yay, go combo go!
Good result and chapeau for actually getting back and saying thanks to all those that offered help and advice.
I've stopped offering help on vehicle related faults (and I have 40+ years experience of repairing and writing about vehicles) as posters never seem to either say thanks or come back with a conclusion.
Yay, go combo go!
And go Jim go!
Great result 👍
Brilliant! Good old boy with honest service.
Great. What's the actual name of Wxxxe garage? There may be some locals who need to be warned about that place! I'd not be taking that free service.
Blimey, they can't have tried very hard to manually crank the engine over or looked very hard.
Mind you I'm sure they'd have taken it off your hands as a 'favour' if you couldn't afford a replacement engine.
Good result anyway.
We need more Jims and less W*****es don't we? Great result 🙂
If anyone in Brighton wants to pm about which garage it was do feel free. Had a great day at work nipping about in my van 😊
I had an inkling it wpuld be something oddball. I reckoned the starter motor would ne jammed on the flywheel.
It never occurred to me that the alternator would either have seized, or the belt wouldn't have slipped with a levrr n the lower pulley
It never occurred to me that the alternator would either have seized, or the belt wouldn’t have slipped with a lever on the lower pulley
I guess because it's geared down and modern belts are under a lot more tension than the old V-belts.
A mechanic you can trust and is actually good at what they do is worth so much.
I've a vw t5 and I've been going to an independent vw specialist for years. He was a vw trained mechanic before he set up on his own plus he drives a vw t5. Every time Ive gone to him with a problem hes known exactly what it is straight away.
As he knows Im a returning customet he will say things like maybe next year you want to think about replacing x or y rather than some garages that tell you it needs to be done now because they want your money and they might not see you again.
Glad it's been sorted and you didn't get shafted by the garage. 👍🙂