You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
My wife and I are looking at vans - specifically the pop-top type. We're in France so some models may be unfamiliar but things we're looking at :
Campster/Crosscamp
Kepler One (or Six? )
Hanroad Trek 4/5(+)
The "plan" (insofar as there is one 🙂 ) is that it'll be our only vehicle - so has to be below 2m high, but we don't use our car a lot other than for weekends away anyway. The camper bit will mainly be weekends away and stopovers on the way / way back for longer trips - we don't really plan on spending 3 weeks in it as a holiday.
We have 2 children, who will be 7 and 5 by the end of this year; Two boys wholike the outdoors and generally adventuring. They will, in theory, sleep upstairs whilst we sip sparkling water as the sun sets over the ocean before sleeping (or not) downstairs.
The reality is, that we don't know how this would actually work. At some point, we're going to hire something for a weekend or two to try it all out, but in the meantime, I'd like the hive mind's opinion on a few things.
For example, the Kepler has a toilet, which I didn't think would be useful and I don't relish having to empty etc, but at the same time the idea that we would either always be at a campsite with facilities or that we'd dig a hole to shit in with the kids is something that I think means that we would be missing out (either by always staying on sites or by always having to dig holes 🙂 ).
Also, how bearable is it to have a van and only a van as a single car family?
How important is water? The campster/crosscamp have really small water tanks (10l) for example, and that seems very little.
Should we sleep "upstairs" and let the kids have the generally smaller bed in the van, but then they'd miss out on something that I think they'd find cool and we'll miss out on the sunsets sipping sparkling water whilst they nod off quietly (hahahahahaha).
Talk us into / out of some of these things, please 🙂
that we’d dig a hole to shit in
You and everyone else with a van .
Most places where you can "wild park" are absolutely ****ing vile with human shite half buried or half unburied by folk looking to dig a hole.
They look like a really nice size of van for a 1 car family if your prepared to treat the van as a tin tent. Don't think your going to sit in it as a family of 4 and cook a meal but with the addition of an awning off the side it'll be a really good family wagon.
We have a lwb T5 as o daily driver and had intended to convert it but have realised that 4 people in a camper that size means you need and awning so we use it more now as a camping van rather than a campervan. If you are going to end up with an awning why not just leave the van more usable the rest of the time as a day van.
I've done exactly what you're considering. I had a SWB T5 camper as my only vehicle and as used it for weekend getaways and an annual 2 week vacation on French campsites with a decent awning.
As a daily drive - my T5 was below 2m especially after I lowered it from standard by 40mm. Easily got into multistorey car parks. Fit nicely into normal car park spaces but sometimes getting out was a bit tight as the doors are large, but in terms of its footprint no bigger than a decent sized SUV or people carrier. To drive it wasn't bad at all, especially on the lowered and stiffened suspension. It drove just like my SMax, though a bit noisier and rattler, but it was a converted builders van after all. But in terms of cornering and handling was very similar to a big MPV like my SMax. In fact the wife now has an X3 and though it is more refined than the T5 it feely alot more barge like than the T5 did. However the 102bhp turbo diesel was a bit frustrating and slow. Fine once upto speed and could maintain normal motorway speeds, but acceleration was snail-pace which made getting out of dodgy junctions a bit scary, and forget overtaking unless you have a good mile or so of clear road ahead and a fair tailwind, so alot of crawling along behind slow moving traffic on country lanes. So you can easily use one as a daily drive if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of refinement and don't mind the odd rattle and squeak...though in camper configuration don't expect to have the convenience of a van for the B&Q and tip runs. The interior camper stuff takes up space and you don't want to scuff it up.
We did get rid of it a year earlier than planned (was planning to keep it for 4 years but ended up selling after 3) as a t5 sized camper really is too small for a family of 4 as soon as the kids started to jump up in size. Fine for 2 adults or when the kids are small, but as soon as they approach 10yrs old they shoot up quick (well ours did at least) and it all gets a bit too cozy when everyone is inside the van. the awning was a bit of a faff so only used if we were staying somewhere for more than a few days.
Regarding chemical loo's..we had one...strictly for number 1's and it was fine. Emptying was not as messy or unpleasant as you'd think. We only used it for night time wee's and the campsite toilets during the day. We didn't do much wild camping at all. Guess it would be more unpleasant with a few lots of number 2's in there though. But it was a cassette porta-potty so no different to if you had a proper full on motorhome.
In answer to some of your specific questions: the kids slept in the pop top - easier for them to get up there. The downstairs bed was fine for me and the mrs.
We had a 20ltr water tank and sink unit but rarely used it. The sink just dumped water overboard so needed a separate tank which was a faff. Would have been better if it had an internal grey water tank but not sure we'd have used it even then. Also we had interior gas bottle storage. But could easily have done without the sink and water tank - though I think you need one to be able to re-register as a motorhome and get normal speed limits.
Think I would have preferred an underslung LPG setup and had an additional usable cupboard inside the van. Used the gas cooker though apart from when on main holidays where we had a portable gas BBQ and just cooked on that all the time. But for long weekends away just cooked on the van rings.
We had a Dometic electric fridge. Brilliant. Much better than a powered cool box. Would have likes a bigger one and would have sacrificed other things, like the internal water tank, for a bigger fridge. On hot French summers was nice to have an ice cold beer at hand, ice lolly's in the freezer compartment and more convenient for shopping as you can stock up a bit for a few day's worth of food.
Also better to have one with a gas or diesel heater. We only had a mains powered electric kick space heater, so only worked when plugged into power on a campsite and was not really powerful enough to heat the van on cold nights - just took the edge off the chill. A diesel or propane heater would have been much better and essential of you're wild camping. Also the heat didn't circular into the pop top area very well so especially at the foot end of the pop top it got pretty cold.
All in all a nice bit of kit and better than tenting, but they are small so you really need to be minimalist.
Campers are great. I have great memories from being you kids age and camping in my parents VW and being up in the ‘space maker’ roof.
We have had a couple of VWs first a T4 and now a T6. Toilet wise we carry a small porta potti for emergencies and use in the night. Both vans have fitted in a normal domestic garage and never had trouble parking them or using them around town. We have always had a car to (well actually 2 cars) but with me working from home indefinitely we are going to drop down to van+one car.
So I would say don’t worry about a van with a toilet. Water wise the T4 had a large tank but it was difficult to clean so we just started using 10l bladders. You can normally find water in cemeteries and other places. For the sort of use you are talking about I would not worry about the capacity. Leave that the ‘van lifers’ and ‘overlanders’.
Thanks all for the input. It will very much be a tin tent, and the toilet opinions are useful too 🙂
I'm also a bit reassured that apart from a bit of washing up, I suspect our water usage will be limited to I won't get too hung up on it. Going to try one or two and see how we go... 🙂
We have 2 children, who will be 7 and 5 by the end of this year;
As above, you might have left it a bit late to get max use of it.
We bought a LWB T5 when our first son was born and used it for about twelve years to excellent effect. Then about three years ago the kids got to that age where they took any excuse to start knocking shit out of each other and arguing. Pretty much overnight the pop top became useless and we had to put one of them in a tent overnight which pretty much negated the point of the van.
We didn't have a formal loo just tupperware for night time duties which worked fine. In contrast with the poster above, ours was( and still is) great for cooking a family meal in comfort.
Used the van as my daily driver for those 15 years. Various compromises, but happy with it. But then I've never been interested in driving as a thing in itself, so didn't mind.
I've just converted our LWB Trafic bus to a camper (I already have the upper speed limits 🙂 ). I got a firm in Inverness to fit the pop up roof but have done everything else myself. A fridge was an absolute necessity as was solar to keep it topped up at festivals. We've been away as a family of 4 with two boys about a year older than yours a few times now and the 10 litres of water is fine, just making the odd cuppa and doing a few dishes is all we need it for. We also see it very much as a tin tent that doesn't need the faff of a normal tent when packing up in the pissing rain. Packing up after Orkney Rock Festival last year was the final straw...
We do also have a massive inflatable awning for longer stops on campsites. Porta potti for emergency toilet stops is a good idea too.
We love it!
We bought a LWB T5 when our first son was born and used it for about twelve years to excellent effect. Then about three years ago the kids got to that age where they took any excuse to start knocking shit out of each other and arguing. Pretty much overnight the pop top became useless and we had to put one of them in a tent overnight which pretty much negated the point of the van.
@thegeneralist I'm looking a campervans at the mo with kids (boy and girl) aged 12 and 9 and starting to think I should just get a van for camping, rather than a campervan. Sleeping just sounds like it would be too difficult - my eldest is already big, they both fight etc.
It would mean losing the wild camping facility, but I'm not sure we'd be doing much of that in any case. Plus after some cyclocross races I look like swamp thing, not sure a smart campervan interior is really what I want there.