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We're pretty much decided that we want to get a van but I've got a few questions...
We'd like a SWB, with three seats up front, three in the back, and no bulkhead. This screams VW Transporter, but I'm reluctant to pay the VW premium so have been looking at Transit Customs or Mercedes Vitos. Unfortunately, I've pretty much ruled out a Vito as they seem rare with 3 up front - can you change the single passenger seat to a double?
If we were to go down the Transit route, I see two options - we could get a regular van, remove the bulkhead then add Tourneo seats and windows to the back, or just get a crew cab and remove the rear bulkhead. I like the flexibility of having folding/removable rear seats though, so am increasingly tempted by the first option but I have no idea how tricky that is to do.
Not really looking at Tourneos as the extra heating adds bulk to the rear which I'm keen to avoid.
Thoughts? Anything I've missed or should be considering?
Just been through what you have said
Kept looking at Transits as i didnt want to pay the VW tax and ive always been a Ford guy
Needed 3 seats up front, 3 in the rear, twin sliding doors with windows and a glass tailgate not barn doors
All the Fords i looked at struggled to meet the criteria and if they did then they wanted 15k+ for a 14 plate one with 140k on the clock and they didnt look the best
Ended up paying the VW tax when this one came up, 11 plate, 160k, 2 owners, full VW history, paid 15k for it with all the upgrades including the 20in wheels, lowered 20mm, just had a major sevice, water pump and cambelt done, clutch and flywheel 20k ago, its the 140bhp model
Van drives lovely and dosent feel like a 160k van
Sold my 2016 Focus ST3 with 49k on the clock, was running 280 bhp and i dont regret it!
All i really need to do is interior upgrades to suit my needs
Well that’s a massive spanner in the works 🤣🤦🏻♂️
Nice looking van for the money. £15k isn't bad. Pre-ad blue ?
Just got the GMP ULEZ issue hovering otherwise I'd consider a van for beach and bike trips like above.
Renault trafic? Ticks all the boxes
Bulkhead looks like a pain to remove on the Traffic. Could be wrong though
You’d have to really, really hate someone to make them sit in the middle front seat of a t5/t6. You sit bolt upright, the gear lever surround jabbing into your knee. Captain Hook would be fine. You can’t even squeeze a child seat with a 9 year old next to it. Loathsome device fit only for transiting between the holiday inn express and T3. T4 would be a journey too far.
You’d have to really, really hate someone to make them sit in the middle front seat of a t5/t6. You sit bolt upright, the gear lever surround jabbing into your knee. Captain Hook would be fine. You can’t even squeeze a child seat with a 9 year old next to it. Loathsome device fit only for transiting between the holiday inn express and T3. T4 would be a journey too far.
Tbh the Vito is the same. Thankfully mine has the comfort option seats in the back, all individually reclinable, loads of room to stretch out and dvd screens in the headrests. The rest of the family sit in the back and the dog loafs about up front with me 😀
Just been through all this too! Have a Vauxhall Movano MWB ex welfare van being delivered this week. But we needed the higher roof version so the Tourneo and Vivaros of the world were out anyway.
Things to think about: do you care about Euro 5/6 restrictions? If yes, you’ll need post 2017 vans. At which point you’ll notice you find the transits are showing quite a lot of problems- all sorts of injector issues on top of the wet belt recall. You’ll be surprised how many you see advertised with ‘new engine’ or ‘all new injectors’ added. And they cost a load more!
Watch out for some of the minibus & heavy options - depending on their registration docs not all licenses cover them.
Having hunted and hunted, we came to the conclusion it was easier to take out stuff we didn’t need than add in what we did (windows, insulation, seats), hence the welfare van.
You’d have to really, really hate someone to make them sit in the middle front seat of a t5/t6.
I sat like on a journey from Edinburgh to Liverpool. It was crap. I had to sit on the seatbelt, really uncomfy.
Having hunted and hunted, we came to the conclusion it was easier to take out stuff we didn’t need than add in what we did (windows, insulation, seats), hence the welfare van.
Thats an interesting tangent, when I've been having van urges I've pondered the ex-welfare vans.
Nice looking van for the money. £15k isn’t bad. Pre-ad blue ?
Just got the GMP ULEZ issue hovering otherwise I’d consider a van for beach and bike trips like above.
Yes pre ad blue, euro 4 engine, we have a partial clean air zone near by in Portsmouth but it only affects commercial vehicles and if that changes I can park just outside the zone and ride in
The double front seat is pretty crap for 2 people but perfect for one person and a small dog!
The third front seat in my Peugeot expert is also very limited, ok for short journeys with with and daughter in the middle but not for longer stuff.
What budget / milage compromise are you willing to make...?
I bought a Vivaro LWB crew cab new in 2014 twin sliders and barn doors to the back. Needed a people carrier but found once the kids were in there was no room for anything else and didnt want to fork out for a VW at the time. Probably one of the best vehicles ive ever bought and its still on my drive to this day. Never missed a beat and i have heard allsorts about them. Maybe worth a look at what they have to offer with the newer versions. Food for thought maybe if you want to avoid the VW tax.
Kitchen fitters
The middle seat up front is just for emergencies - better to have the uncomfortable option than nothing at all. Budget cap is £20k, would prefer euro 6 if possible. And I’m not looking to van camp in it, just transport kids and bikes more easily than an Smax
How about a Peugeot traveler rather than a van it's the 'upto' 8 seat car version of the expert? Much nicer inside with glass roof etc....
Bulkhead looks like a pain to remove on the Traffic. Could be wrong though
Not tried myself, but I know people who've done it.
You could pay someone else to do it with the savings over a VW or Ford anyway 😀
Did the third seat thing in a transporter last year for about 20 minutes. Was fine.
I wonder why the Renault Master is never, ever mentioned on these threads? So much scope for personalised conversions and so much room inside.
The Vivaro, Nissan, Renault Van is a good option, but is the Master the big van ?
Nobody mentions the Crafter either..
Yeah, the Master is the bigger van, not ridiculously so though. Bit like the garden shed, you always wish you'd gone bigger.
I went the opposite way to most and removed my twin captains seats up front in my T5 and replaced them with a double + single. Same time I also fitted a Vankraft hinge which reclines the angle of the seat back by a few degrees making it more comfortable. Can see why it'd be tight for 3 adults but me and my two boys did Glentress and back last week (4 hours each way) and they were fine... and they had the option of sitting in the back where there are three proper seats...
Hiya,
I have a Renault Traffic 2015 camper-van. The bulkhead is dead easy to remove as it is bolted in. WRT to two seats remember the middle seat on a Renault can fold into a table and dead useful at motorway services for sandwich stop 😉 Touch wood been amazing van. Look after it and regularly service it. Only had sundries to replace only note really is when you change the Disks on them you have to change the wheel bearing at the same time, which can be costly. Cam-chain usually at 100k miles and that's it really. The injectors can be a pain to remove, but specialist companies do it now and best route for them.
I don't want to diss the competition but the notes about these vans is mainly because of bad servicing and not bad design.
JeZ
Whatever you end up with, make sure that it has the essentials because vans are notoriously sparse on kit. It's easy to overlook the lack of AC or passenger airbag that you take for granted in a car 🙂
2013 Vivaro here and no complaints. use it LOADS.
We bought a LWB crewcab twin slider and i removed the bulkhead - it was really easy as its a plastic sheet. I cut it up to make/keep a nice looking cover to the rear of teh second row of seats. bit laborious but it looks way better than the exposed seatbacks (we use ours as a camper). I`ve insulated, carpet lined and put a bed in teh back and a pop top on it.
I`m a VW enthusiast (i have had multiple classic VWs) but i couldnt face the scene tax. same van as a VW with same mileage would have been literally twice the price at the time.
The middle vw front seat is small. Too small for an adult for a long journey, but fine for a kid for 4hrs +.
My t5 is an utter money-pit though. Just over 160k miles, but it's taken £000s to get there in garage repairs. Current issue is air getting back into the fuel system somewhere so the fuel drains back to the tank when cold so it isn't primed and starts badly. Got a one-way valve in there now that has fixed it/masked it, but it might have a leaky head or something on the low-pressure fuel side. On the 2nd alternator now too. EGR stuff/ turbo / exhaust manifold gasket /suspension/ etc. Watch out for leaks/ internal water features too. The roofbar rails have gaskets that go brittle and leak. Sunroof drainpipes can/will block giving a wet headlining/ shower feature..... Probably all to be expected for 160k though...
It's a great family/kit hauling vehicle and I think we will aim to get it to 200k then see what we can get that is more ulez friendly.
Nobody mentions the Crafter either..
Mate of mine converted one. Looked nice and was roomy but was very thirsty, very noisy and went very rusty.
Sold it for loads of cash and bought a Peugeot thing which is bigger, more frugal, much quieter and not rusty. He's about to sell that for a decent profit too.
OP wants a SWB medium van though, not a Crafter or Master.
I've had a SWB crew cab for 10 years and it's been perfect for my needs of biking/family transport.
Now probably moving to a standard medium SWB van. Yeah the extra space might be useful in some circumstances, but it's the right compromise for me.
When I looked nothing really beat a vw kombi for removable rear seats. Also bear in mind it is very easy to retro kombi seats into a transporter panel van using all the genuine brackets rather than some big washers and luck. I know there's always the assumption of scene tax but c5 years ago the cheapest panel van I could find was a transporter, cheaper than any custom.
The middle seat up front is just for emergencies – better to have the uncomfortable option than nothing at all.
Do you have 6 seats at the moment, or is there a real problem having 5 seats in your current vehicle? If not, twin captains seats up front is far, far better. Even with just 1 person the bench is not a terribly comfortable place to sit for long journeys.
This is why we went Transit Custom. We did 11 hours each way to Fort William, 3 people in front, no issues at all. We've done multiple Wales/Shropshire etc trips too, again, no issues... the 3 seats in a Transit really is 3 people.
I have 6 seats and often do long drives with my kids + a couple more kids, so one ends up in the middle front seat. On that basis, for me, I would always go for the 2 seat bench. Maybe when they all move out, 2 captains up front on the next van will be better, but currently the van is a kid hauler as much as it is a kit hauler.
@mashr - yeah, we have an Smax so have the option of 7 seats if we need it. I've sat on plenty of passenger bench seats for long journeys so don't see them as too bad.
Rather than having to remove the bulkhead in the Trafic/Vivaro you could get the 9 seater version and remove the rear row of seats. Much more likely to get a tailgate that way which could be handy to shelter under. Would be easy enough to put something over the rear windows to completely black them out. Benefit of a bulkhead though is you're not heating the storage space so it warms up a lot quicker and stinky biking gear is hidden away!
you could get the 9 seater version
Apparently some insurance companies can be funny about 9 seaters, that and it'll have probably been a taxi, so add a couple of 000 to the 'recorded' milage 😉
I'm looking for Escrs van but with barn doors (no chance), but it does seem van wise, the Vauxhall Vivaro has a great rep. Some builders I know bought a Vivaro & a Transit over 12 years ago, the transit gone 3 years as it's was a rust box, the vivaro still hasn't been replaced, as it just works. The issue being that you can get the after market extra's for T5's, I doubt you get the same for the Vauxhall.
Apparently some insurance companies can be funny about 9 seaters
It can also easily double the road tax.
Yeah £600 tax for the 2.5 T5's (3/6 seaters) put me off those pretty early on & I hear the was a tax increase this year too?
dont pay the transporter tax.
It isnt worth it.
Im not saying dont get a transporter, they are good vans. But they are no more reliable or better than anything else (in my experience). If you can get one at a reasonable price, fine.
I think the factory Transit custom seats fold down and fold forward too, though some crewcab conversions use non ford seats, so you would have to check van to van.
8 Seats or higher has to be limited to 62mph, so stick below that if i were you.
Having said that, 8 seats or higher is a minibus, so (was, at least) a much lower tax bracket.
The biggest pitfall of van ownership is £300 tax. 🙁
I really like our full size transit, though its a van. It isnt nimble to drive like a transporter. (RWD, live axel on leaf springs). Former minibus though, so came with seperate AC front and rear, windows all round, sun roof, passenger airbag (rare on vans?), crusie control, etc etc.
Thirsty though. averaging 30mpg tops.
8 seats or higher is a minibus
There is some confusion, the 9-seater ^^ is 9 seats including the driver, i.e. 8 passenger seats.
A minibus is 9-16 passenger seats and you might need a D1 category driving licence (but not always)
Bulkhead looks like a pain to remove on the Traffic. Could be wrong though
Very easy indeed. Mine’s been out twice. Just have half bulkhead now.
Out of interest for those with transporters; I'm thinking of getting one but would need to have a baby seat (4 month old) up front. Doubt budget can stretch to one with a second row of seats, but could fit these longer term.
But shorter term, what's the space like with a car seat on the middle and an adult on the passenger seat?
But shorter term, what’s the space like with a car seat on the middle and an adult on the passenger seat?
It's be tight.
Fitting a second row of seats doesn't have to be expensive. Bought mine in mint condition with floor, belts and brackets for 500. Just needed to buy the VW spreader plates which were about 60 quid and fitted it all myself over a day.
Car seat in middle and adult on the passenger side of a bench seat in the front will be fine but not comfortable. For short runs no problem but I wouldn't want to do a long run in that. There are other issues with the bench seat, it's very upright (but you can buy a kit to fix this) and if it has storage underneath, then there sometimes isn't enough headroom. I can't sit upright in my mates T5 camper because of this
I have a T6 Kombi. All three rear seats (I have the 2+1 setup) has Isofix points and there's so much space you can put them in easily. Also worth noting that if you have captains chairs up front, it's really easy to pop into the back from the front without leaving the van
Yes pre ad blue, euro 4 engine, we have a partial clean air zone near by in Portsmouth but it only affects commercial vehicles and if that changes I can park just outside the zone and ride in
I wouldn't wager against Portsmouth or Southampton going for CAZ's in the next 5 years for personal vehicles. Air quality is rubbish in both.
I suspect the main thing stopping them now is the massive residential element inside the central areas with associated taboo but London has kind of broken that taboo with the ULEZ extension into areas with less good public transport.
Having said that riding in or park and ride is generally a lot more civilised than driving in.
I'm pondering the economics of what charges vs. economy saving would look like if I change cars. 10 year old, low mpg petrol that probably won't get charged vs. older more economical diesel that will.
I went the opposite way to most and removed my twin captains seats up front in my T5 and replaced them with a double + single. Same time I also fitted a Vankraft hinge which reclines the angle of the seat back by a few degrees making it more comfortable.
I've had swivel captain seats and they are brilliant but when mini D came along I swopped them for a double. We love travelling all three up front together, he never wants to go anywhere in the car.
I'm 6ft 3 and I struggle to sit in the passenger seat next to a booster chair. I've considered buying the vancraft hinge to get some extra head room.