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I am slowly managing to replace the the car with bike or foot. I am mulling over the idea of a load lugging utility bike along the lines of a Genesis Brixton to reduce my reliance on the car even more.
So, talk to me about utility bikes, recommendations, uses, can you get the weekly shop on it etc etc. Are there any other bikes i should be looking at?
Following with interest - have been mulling over a (e?)cargo bike myself to replace our second car now that wfh has been normalised.
Because of my circumstances with not having any ground floor storage I use a trailer and converted e bike as a utility bike. If I had ground floor storage for it tho I would have an electric backfiets type bike - the ones with the small front wheel and big box in front of the rider. Expensive but good and very versatile with huge load carrying ability
this sort of thing - there are other manufacturers
https://www.bakfiets.com/elektrische-bakfiets/cargobike-classic-long-steps
Maybe utility bike is the wrong description. The Genesis Brixton is the type of thing i am thinking of. So, front and rear racks, space for a frame bag if i want/need extra space. Some nice big capacity panniers/rack top bag. Geared to be rideable when loaded. Usage is weekly shop (only 1.5 miles away) plus in the week trips to local convenience store for bread/milk/beer top ups.
Have a look at the elephant bikes as well if that's the sort of thing you're after
I'd struggle with getting my weekly shop on that. But we're a family of 5. I can fit it on my Big Dummy though
We went down to 1 car and got a Surly Big Dummy for local shopping trips + sprog transportation. Fitted a bafang motor to it as it is pretty hilly here, and the sprogs are heavy. It has been great!
If you only rarely need a large cargo capacity you could always get a trailer for a normal bike instead of going full cargo.
I've a proper cargo (bakfiets style) bike that I use for ferrying round 2 kids, or 1 kid plus shopping, or a big shop or whatever. Ita way more practical than something with panniers, you can just throw stuff in it and go. If you've got the space for one I'd reccomend it above a 'utility bike' for that use case. Worst for just riding around on, though
The other advantage of bakfiets style is the weight is all low down when you're loaded up. I think mines rated to carry 80kg, I regularly have 40 in there and have gone above 100kg total a couple of times when lugging kids and camping gear.
I've sort of done half this over the past year.
I still have the car as I need it for work but have bought a Bob Yak copy trailer and use that with a couple of 20l panniers on a Dawes Galaxy for our weekly supermarket shop, 1 1/2 miles each way, could do it without the panniers most weeks. I've extended this to include pretty much all shopping trips within the city ringroad (York).
Perfectly possible to do this for our family of 4 adults.
The only exceptions are if I need to shift particularly heavy or bulky items but I've managed to deal with those as part of longer trips (so far) avoiding using the car for a specific shopping journey.
We've had a a proper box in front cargo bike for about 6 years and it's brilliant. A full weekly shop for a family of four goes in the front, and with a proper rack and panniers at the back you can carry flippin loads.
Our kids are 4 and 7 and still get whizzed around in it - I've recently added an E conversion kit and it's even better now.
If you've got somewhere to keep it and can afford one of the better electric versions, get one!
*We've had trailers, and various combinations of panniers etc, but the cargo bike is so convenient it just gets used all the time.
A lot of them over here in Stockholm, including some really nice ones. I've seen local craftsmen using the extended Bakfiets style ones for carrying tools and there are a lot of the tricycle ones around for kids, dogs and shopping.
If I had a need for that level of cargo capacity I'd consider a Livelo ( https://livelo.se/) because they are pretty compact and seem to be lighter than a lot of the other sorts I see. They do come with a price premium though.
There are a lot of STW threads on this in the last few yrs, may be useful.
I do most of grocery shopping and local chores (up to 20 miles) on a bike. Decided to seek a utility bike option. So started with a Kona Ute, and discovered by trial and error that my thinking was all wrong and MTB-y. Ended up with something much better for the job (a strong Dutch utility bike with smaller wheels and stepthru frame, dynamo, kickstand, guards, roller brakes, loooong sturdy rack, hub gear, etc)
If was carrying more plus kids etc would look at Bakfiets or similar
Have a look at the elephant bikes as well if that’s the sort of thing you’re after
We have an Elephant bike. My God it's heavy.
I’ve got two cargo bikes (one front box, one longtail mtb) and are selling our second car now.
Our car has done less than 500 miles in the last year (both still working full time).
I’ve moved everything from guinea pigs, still in the hutch! To double divan beds and fridge freezers. Normal use is two heavy four year olds though
Keep getting tempted by the Gazelle (dutch) bikes if you want something practical, normal bike shaped and able to carry a bit of stuff. https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/models
I'd love a bakfiets but way too many awkward restrictors (to keep motorbikes out) around here that I'd get stuck on if I wanted to use my usual cut-throughs.
Was going to say.. something like a gazelle heavy duty NL is perfect for the sort of thing you are describing, and much more suitable than the genesis.
Totally bombproof everything, relatively undesirable, and built to live outside. As above, comes with lock, racks, lights, full chain case, hub gears and brakes etc etc.
If I ever replace my elderly but also bombproof batavus dutch bike it'll be with a gazelle.
A lot of them over here in Stockholm, including some really nice ones. I’ve seen local craftsmen using the extended Bakfiets style ones for carrying tools and there are a lot of the tricycle ones around for kids, dogs and shopping.
There's a carpenter in Cambridge who uses one. Nice idea, but very limited carrying capability for 4x8' sheets.....
I've often thought about getting a proper cargo bike, but they are more expensive than a half decent 2nd hand car...
Not going to replace the car(s) but I have been mulling for a while a bike that is just ready to go with lights, lock, racks with bags permanently in place and flat pedals for all shoes. Often once I've found all that stuff for one of my existing bikes I may as well just walk to the local shops or I'm in the car to town.
I also have no room or desire for an n+1 so I'm going to repurpose my DayOne with a Nexus 3 speed hub wheel and flat handlebars. There will doubtless be a thread!
Ended up with something much better for the job
Such as?
^ sorry was called away mid-edit!
Was a Batavus Personal Deluxe
Like this
Also never worry about it being nicked with a Trelock wheel lock, and an extra integrated cable lock that pullsout of the frame. Add the fugly looks. It’s a tealeaf-repellant. Stealth tech! The weight is on the heavier side of ‘sedate’ so not a nippy option, but I soon grew to like it’s smooth, silent, zen-like surety. The slightly feet-fwd crank position and wide swept bars gives a relaxed cruiser feel, keeping CoG lower still, and the strength + stability is such that I’ve lugged insane weights that would have had the Ute (or even my steel tourer) noodling and creaking.
Had to swap a cog and chainring to winch up the Malvern Hills. If I was rich I’d probably buy something similar with e-assist, just because I’m getting creaky tbh. As it is the acoustic beast does the job. It also has road presence and seems to attract less close-passes, especially with giganto-panniers.
I’ll do between 4 mile or 16 mile round trios depending on whether shopping in village or city. It will carry as much as you can get in panniers.
I’ve often thought about getting a proper cargo bike, but they are more expensive than a half decent 2nd hand car…
and there in is the issue - people look at the upfront cost and not the long term costs.
I replaced our second car with a camper and pre covid used my E-long tail - set up with guards and dynamo lighting for most day to day tasks.
worked well and looking forward to getting back to it when i actually have places to go when the wifes using the car. - I also have a kona Rove thats set up with dynamo lights and guards if i dont need to carry a load.
Theres no denying that as a someone whos 2 miles from the nearest village that the car is more convenient and that the half mile of fast A road to the village is better negotiated in the car - But thats also part of the problem so I've slowely been widening the single track between us and the village to get the trailer up it for nursery runs - not a hope in hell your riding a bakfiets up it. - The postie trying to take his van up it was a great help though.
One thing i am in the throws of to improve the convenience is moving the daily bikes out of the garage to a more convenient location.
If you only rarely need a large cargo capacity you could always get a trailer for a normal bike instead of going full cargo.
^ This too. I once lugged 5 bags of groceries in a puppy crate strapped on a large Carry Freedom Y trailer
Not as much fun as the Batavus by a long shot but possibly an extra shopping bag’s worth. Combined would be ridiculous.
The Batavus cost me £120 used and the trailer nearly double. Go figure.
(To the room) I can’t quite can see the attraction/reasoning of spending £thousands on a bike to fetch groceries unless if injured/disabled/live on top of hill. In fact I tick two nearly three of those boxes, yet still pedal a 3spd bike 9 miles each way to Aldi. Would enjoy an e-assist on tbat account, but would prefer to be uninjured and acoustic until age and wear force hand.
And why only go once a week if it’s only a couple of miles away? Just buy food more often/as you need it, get more exercise? I tend to ride at night to supermarkets to get away from the indoorsness of home and the busyness of dayshoppers. As if that wasn’t bonus enough, at end of day you also can halve (or less) the grocery bill by buying end of day/shelf life deals, and the winch home earns a deep sleep after than tin of beer.
Have got an elderly Giant Lafree Twist which I got ??15 years ago and it's got 2 huge panniers plus a box bungee'd on top, I take it down to the market once a week and it just about fits a week's fruit and veg for 2 adults.
The e-assist is great for this - I can and have pedalled it fully laden without, but it's a faff, particularly getting going.
Someone round our way has got an e-trike which is almost a teeny van, like https://www.cyclesmaximus.com/cargotrike.htm - if I was getting rid of the car altogether I might go for something like that - once you've bought it the costs are going to be pretty low.
And why only go once a week if it’s only a couple of miles away?
alternatively it's 12 miles each way so once a week is more than enough for the main shop.
Great ideals if you live within a couple miles of a shop mind.
But to refer to a bike as acoustic.....get in the sea.
alternatively it’s 12 miles each way so once a week is more than enough for the main shop.
I’ll only do the 9 mile grocery shop once in a week/while on an analogue bicycling machine of the acoustic type, mainly because I live atop a big foff hill and have arthritic joints and an ab injury. In a few years earlier life I wouldn’t have thought twice, and already commuted 11 miles each way daily. But most shops/runs are now within two or three miles of me so prefer to go often just to get out/get deals.
Need three carrots and a spud for tomorrow’ stew? Seeya, be back in half an hour. May bring a beer home to cook with 👍🏼
This regular local trips fun has all gone a bit rubbish since the Covids. Eggs/honesty boxes excepted. But I’ll still grocery shop late, if less often. I find the last fifteen minutes before closing is much less busy both people/shoppers and road-traffic wise.
For me, an unforeseen *best thing* about a (very) good utility bike like this Batavus is the readiness of it. No light charging. No searching for bags, locks, etc. No special clothes. Even the lock key is already in the bike, it ‘parks’ in the rear lock. Just grab coat, card and doorkey and hop on. In fact, no hopping required, just stepthru and off. Stepthru is a massive imorovement over diamond frame for setting off loaded, or making quick pavement stops, dismounts etc. It all ‘just works’ in a way that I would never have guessed after a lifetime of roadies, hybrids, tourers and mtbs. Even the Kona Ute was basically an MTB with a bit on the back. The Dutch really have done their work on cargo/utility.
I spent a lot of time a couple of years ago seriously considering this. To remember why it didn't go anywhere all I need to do is look out the window today - its pouring and horrible gusty winds.
^ one reason why most car journeys are < 5 miles from home.
Yet I’ve rarely if ever returned from a short bike ride feeling worse than if I’d driven. Usually feel 10x better than had I not ridden. Even look forward to pogies-weather as it’s rare I get to use them! Weird, maybe.
The only time I later regret making local trips by bike is either accident/ice or more commonly near-misses from cars. The latter is more a case of regretting not taking a different route. Just bought a poncho for mad downpours. In the last twenty years I don’t remember arriving home soaked too many times, but when have I’m normally laughing. The tough bit is heading out into a downpour. I’ll probably give that a miss until it stops/tomorrow. But the thought of looking out of the window one day at the weather and thinking ‘I’ll never use my legs/travel under my steam again’ is terrifying to me! I think having spent a good few years in a wheelchair sent me a bit mad and since have been keen to keep moving/enjoy being able to get out. ymmv. That, and 100% reliance on cars/car culture is shitting has shitted up our world and made us soft. Different discussion maybe. I get guilty af
driving for chips to keep them warm as on the bike I re-injure sprinting uphill. Wish we had a chippy within walking distance. Or I could give chips a miss/peel and chip some spuds... 🤣
The thing with living without a car for me is tht sometimes you need to be creative with how you do things and sometimes you end up with a big cost that you notice rather than the continual paying for a car. for example the £50 taxi fare - now most people would balk at that but not even notice putting that much fuel in a car
Although I have an appointment up town this afternoon and its being foul outside - but then its not a journey you could easily drive anyway!
Those Bakfiets look lovely!
The question I have, though, whether something like an old child's trailer that child has grown out of might not be a practical option? I used to have one exactly like this, and often regret having sold it, as I think it would have been perfect for grocery shopping and other errands.
Then again, maybe it wouldn't have.
They said it would never work, that it was cheap Chinese junk, that it would be dead in a matter of hours.
It's not. It's lived outside my front door, unlocked (it's completely invisible to scrotes), for over 2 years now with almost zero maintenance. The tyres have just about worn down to the "carcass" (they're solid foam), the chains been re-tensioned a couple of times, the front basket broke (I may have overloaded the "5kg max") and then been fixed with some m6 bolts and some 1" steel box section. The rear rack was added to make it even more of a load-lugger. Even the dynamo light still works and the wheels are still straight!
I've not parked in the town center since getting it, and only used the car for the supermarket trip if I've also needed diesel.
£90!
(As predicted the rear solar light is useless, I keep meaning to wire one upto the dynamo rather than have to remember to attach a AAA/USB one)
^^ £80!
Added props. V similar setup to my Batavus (cost me £110 iirc). 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
My egg bike cost £80 tho!
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/share-your-lockdown-bikes-2/
Use it all the time for all shopping now, while the Batavus is being rebuilt (stored outdoors for 8 years, now it ‘needs work’ mainly because I’m a fussy person who gets angsty around rust)
Just found these and i think they look great.
Looks fun, reminds me of the old monkeybike mopeds? A bit short for my liking maybe. Also prefer something less nickable and more pedalable.
I looked at a RadWagon Cargo V4 as an option recently, someone commented on this thread
Again, overkill for me. I just realised I now do all of my shopping in comfort on a 1989 touring bike. ymmv.
I’ve often thought about getting a proper cargo bike, but they are more expensive than a half decent 2nd hand car…
Not after ongoing costs of tax, insurance, fuel, service, mot and the problems you might inherit with a 3k car?
Im a big fan of cargo bikes. i think everyone in suburbia should have one.
I had an Urban arrow for a few years, which was a fantastic land yacht of a thing. My OH refused to ride it though and it was due some costly service issues that i couldnt handle (Nuvinci hub, and the bearings in the motor were on the way out, but as an early model i couldn't update the motor due to motor mount compatibility), so much as i enjoyed it, it got swapped for a Yuba long tail, which my OH loves and has been using as a daily driver for a few years now.
Took the Yuba to the bottle bank over the weekend, but it took longer to securely strap the bin of bottles onto the side securely than it took to get to the bottle bank.
Got two kids now, so looking at getting a Bullitt frame and building it up myself.
When no 2 came along we swapped our transporter for a full fat transit, which is a bit of a minibus to be lugging to the shops or running down to the beach.
Im thinking that a Bullit would take two kids, their bike, and/or stuff for the beach.
^ Olly ever looked at a Gazelle Cabby? Might be worth a look they were well recommended by Really Useful Bikes when I bought the ute. Nexus is easy and inexpensive. And (according to my faultless experience with the Batavus) pretty much maintenance-free
Not after ongoing costs of tax, insurance, fuel, service, mot and the problems you might inherit with a 3k car?
My point was more that for a utilitarian bike (rather than the lastest Dura Ace equipped dream bike), they cost a hell of a lot and if you want a basic ebike version then they're the best part of £5-6k.
Still loads of them around in Cambridge, very much the thing to have if you have two young kids and live in town.
We've got a Cabby. Got it because the box can fold so it's much easier to store, and at that time it was miles cheaper than anything else.
It's really well put together and I've just added a bafang mid drive kit. Not as posh as Urban Arrow or Bullitt etc, but it just works.
I bought a Kona MinUte off the back of a PSA on here 5 ot 6 years ago and it's been an absolute game changer. It's not the same as what the OP is looking at but it's also not a "proper" cargo bike. it's basically an elongated MTB with big panniers on it.
I use it to pop into the local town, I can fit a weeks worth of shopping in it (occasionally I take a backpack too if I've got a lot to get), I've carried all kind of things that shouldn't fit on it, and it just works perfectly for what I want. If/when it dies I'll buy another in a heartbeat (actually, I'd get a full size Ute).
Having it has meant that me and Mrs Lunge now quite happily survive with one car as I use the MinUte for anything local.
Seriously, get one, they're wonderful.
This thread has inspired me to look at de-rusting/restoring and then maybe converting (via a Swytch conversion or similar front-wheel hub-motor) the old batavus/battlehorse. Still the comfiest, swoopiest bike (utility or otherwise) I ever rode.
Thar she blows:
Annoyingly I have a Bafang motor and setup that came installed on Mrs P’s long gone trike, but it’s over the legal limit 😬
*edit - as ever, (and not to pee on chips, but as a contrast) ymmv - ie everything Lunge says about the Ute I found to be almost completely the opposite. Found mine the worst-designed thing for carrying cargo, ie. noodly back end, high-loading, wobbly, no stepthru, twitchy at front/rear-heavy. As soon as I rode a Dutch utility bike I realised more what I disliked so much about the Ute. I spent a packet on the ute too! Around a grand. It was ok unloaded, like a mid-range vanilla mid2k mountain bike, ie a Kina Lanai.
The Batavus Personal (used) that ai replaced it with cost a ton and yet had everything included with it as stock incl dynamo lighting. As similarly priced bikes new - the Ute seems even more expensive, yet poorly-designed for purpose IMO. I’m convinced it was a rushed project marketed at mountain bikers not utility/urban bikers
More hereon this thread
My point was more that for a utilitarian bike (rather than the lastest Dura Ace equipped dream bike), they cost a hell of a lot and if you want a basic ebike version then they’re the best part of £5-6k.
But if it gets used everyday (with effectively zero running or maintenance costs), is extremely convenient and reliable, and replaces a car for at least some journeys, what's not to like?
Being utilitarian doesn't equal cheap parts. Quality components that put up with being left outside, used all the time, not always looked after, but still just work, cost money.
It's a tool, and like good tools, they can cost a bit, work well, and last.
A potentially significant chunk of cash, yes, but in Scotland at least, you can get interest free loans courtesy of the govt for e-cargo bikes for example. It just needs a society that is willing to get over the cultural dependency on cars. But that's for a different thread.
We’ve got a Cabby. Got it because the box can fold so it’s much easier to store, and at that time it was miles cheaper than anything else.
It’s really well put together and I’ve just added a bafang mid drive kit. Not as posh as Urban Arrow or Bullitt etc, but it just works.
mine's also a cabby - completely with the tent (which isn't super sturdy) and the adapters to plug a maxi cosy seat into it. Our youngest had his first ride at 4 days old..
I don't really have any complaints. it was cheap (£1500 new), fairly sturdy, the dynamo lights (mildly upgraded) are surprisingly good, the kickstand and integrated lock are perfect.. It could I suppose do with wider range gears and a better front brake for when its loaded up - the stopping distance from a fair lick would be shorter if I just dragged my feet - but I haven't serviced the rollerbrakes in a while 😀
Still loads of them around in Cambridge, very much the thing to have if you have two young kids and live in town.
Very much this here as well. LBS made a point of advertising to people that they knew have a second car and leave it parked on the street or in a garage all the time. Yes, the bikes they sell are expensive, but they _will_ take two kids and shopping and they are a damn sight easier to park in town. And you don't pay for parking.
They even had one that Tony was directly aiming at the Porsche Cayenne set. I mean, nice going Tony, ballsy move.
But if it gets used everyday (with effectively zero running or maintenance costs), is extremely convenient and reliable, and replaces a car for at least some journeys, what’s not to like?
Cost is miles too high for the amount of use we'd get from it. Hence we just use the car for most cargo based trips.
they cost a hell of a lot and if you want a basic ebike version then they’re the best part of £5-6k.
Gazelle Cabby is £1400? What’s not to like? (Car has roof and heating, I know...😉)
I have basically the same bike as far as tech is concerned (Nexus throughout, although no motor) and it has cost me in total in 8 years £14 for a bottle of Shimano roller-brake oil. I oil them once a year. I have enough oil left for another 8 years at least. It still has the same tyres it came with. I may upgrade the front roller brake to a stoppier version. That may cost me £25. It’s not a lot.
Gazelle Cabby is £1400? What’s not to like?
I'm sure its absolutely fine, just no use whatsoever to me.....
^ I thought that your point was that they were “£5-6k” and hence too costly, not that you have no use for a bike?
If you have no use for a utility/cargo bike then why are you instead suggesting that a cargo bike for you doesn’t ‘make sense’ because they cost upwards of £5k?
Doesn’t make sense that you 1. want/prefer to drive a car, yet are 2. arguing that a cargo bike is senseless for you?
1 and 2 are concordant.
^ I thought that your point was that they were “£5-6k” and hence unaffordable, not that you have no use for a bike?
The type I'd need to replace my local trips would probably be the more expensive type as my about town car journeys are to/from builders merchants so I want a big cargo space and 100kg load capacity.
And the big carbo ebikes I've seen in local shops are all around £5k.
There may well be cheaper ones about, I've not researched it. Given we have a car anyway, it's not something I'd really consider.
Ah, building supplies. Yeah no yeah.
Given we have a car anyway probably not something we would consider
This is most likely true of 99.9% of adults in the UK, regardless of required/possible load or distance. At least you gave it a thought!
OP, loads of inspiration here:
https://www.dreamstime.com/photos-images/heavy-load-bicycle.html
There may well be cheaper ones about, I’ve not researched it. Given we have a car anyway, it’s not something I’d really consider.
I think it's probably most useful as a 2nd car though.
For a lot of people having 2 cars is a "just in case" thing. Or one commute is significantly shorter than the other so you end up with one car + a runaround.
If I could convince my OH to drive something more practical "everyday* " then I'd absolutely spend a few grand on an e-cargo-bike as my "car". But the situation we've ended up in means I'm the one that buys the big practical car, and she buys the runnaround. And she's not prepared to give up the car (or drive a Berlingo). Whereas at various points in our relationship I've happily gone without a car and just dealt with the occasional inconveniences of not having one when she's been away with it for work.
*even discounting lockdown it was fairly common for both cars to be sat on the drive for days at a time as she would work from home and I'd walk/cycle.
@footflaps the Babboe Big E is half your estimate and does 100KG?
https://fudgescyclesonline.com/product/babboe_big_e_cargo_bike_wood_
I think it’s probably most useful as a 2nd car though.
I think literal ‘car-replacement’ in the UK for most people is impossible given the entire structure of society and work and transport has been built around the motor car for the last, what, 80 years?
Our car lives on the drive most of the time because we live near a town and only 8 miles from a city. This means nearly all of my trips under 30 miles round can be (and usually are) achieved via bicycle. It’s not difficult for me (or wasn’t before recentish injury) to organize around that as I’ve been doing it (cycle commuting) for 40 years. Since I learned to drive twenty years ago I’ve gotten more lazy at times but on the whole the car is only used to ferry Mrs P, or to make long trips to visit where there is 1. No practical/safe cycle route and/or 2. Insufficient time-window for me to achieve the trip.
So a bike (utility, ATB, tourer, whatever I variously use to get around on) even to me is not a ‘car-replacement’ as I wouldn’t normally take such local trips i a car anyhow.
In my case the car is a ‘bike complement’.
In order to ditch the car entirely we’d still require to use taxis and public transport at times. And of course organise life in such a way that we aren’t ‘having to’ travel every day as per car-culture
The cabby has a roof 🙂
[img] 
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This was when they were blissfully lighter..
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If anyone wants a go on an ecargo bike let me know - running a project between Todmorden and Halifax www.Cargodale.co.uk
The cabby has a roof 🙂
That’s a helmet! 😉
In order to ditch the car entirely we’d still require to use taxis and public transport at times. And of course organise life in such a way that we aren’t ‘having to’ travel every day as per car-culture
I think that's a big chunk of it.
I need the car/van for work. But not commuting.
This means it has an odd use case of ~2500 miles per month (and the bulk of that will be in 4 trips) for about 3 months. And then nothing for weeks (I actually have to plug it in to keep the battery topped up). So all the annual costs are kinda sunk and I'm left with a free car that I neither need nor use.
Even the building materials example, screwfix have free delivery as do most other merchants so unless it's something small and light and needed right now, I'll just order whatever I need for the weekend's house renovations tasks and it'll arrive sometime between the same day and 48h.
In order to ditch the car entirely we’d still require to use taxis and public transport at times. And of course organise life in such a way that we aren’t ‘having to’ travel every day as per car-culture
Yup. Thats what you do. Don't forget hire cars and car clubs as well.
You might be surprised at the savings over a year. Its seems expensive at the time when you fork out a couple of hundred for a nice car for a weekend away or a £50 Taxi fare but it takes a lot of those to add up to the cost of a car
I actually have to plug it in to keep the battery topped up
Same. It was a handmedown and the biggest costs are struggling it through the MOTs, currently around £500 pa. add the insurance and it’s £800 pa
Add fuel and I don’t know what. £20ish a month? Another £300 pa.
So over a grand a year these last three years, for occasional trips to doctors, parents, friends, and one camping holiday 50 miles away (towing a trailertent)
That £3k could have bought a nice holiday and a few taxi rides. Let’s face it though...without the car how would I ferry my MTB to nice places and back? 😎
I'm currently exploring using a C2W voucher to get someone to convert my Big Dummy with a bafang unit. I'm moving house very soon and while I use it quite a bit at the moment, although less since covid hit and I'm not running errands, I plan to use it a lot more in the village I'm moving too. Nearest proper shops etc are about 3 miles away so I can do the run with kids on board and a load of weight
Don't underestimate how heavy it can get. I can get in a serious sweat with kids/cargo on board and having to get up a slight incline. They're not light. Plus I've got a draggy IGH on the back, great for changing gear when stationary though.
What about https://www.cycleofgood.com/products/elephant-bikes/elephant-bike/
The bikes heavy. OK the bikes weigh as much as small black hole but you are buying something you will pass on to your great grandchildren plus doing a little good elsewhere in the world.
Cargo bikes make sense when you can actually use them for their intended purpose. If you can't store it or use it then it's a great idea but practically useless. I'd buy one if I could but I have nowhere to store it and in any case only 2 supermarkets within a mile or so then 10 miles (and in the next valley) after that. I can live with panniers at those distances.
Car clubs are great as well, my nearest is an hour away though so no dice.
I am planning on a cargo bike instead of a car. Supermarket is c 2 miles away and flat, big stuff I 'll just get delivered or hire a van.
There's a few on gum tree, c 1k used and a bit battered.
Won't be long before you see loads around, in fact in cities in future I don't think you will have much choice.
only 2 supermarkets within a mile or so then 10 miles (and in the next valley) after that. I can live with panniers at those distances.
I think that the term ‘cargo bike’ is increasingly widely-defined to encompass ‘bikes that can take big panniers’, through longtails and ‘funny looking Dutch things with a box on the front’ to ‘four wheeled electric truck with pedals in front’ 😉
I've found after recently considering one is that there is still too many that have a large or small when it comes to sizing. I'm 6'3" and found most dont cater to that here in the UK.
There are bikes available for other countries where the average height is taller, but availability is scant and I dont want to go that route, preferring local should problems arise.
The road system here in the UK is not bike orientated as it is on the continent, and we certainly dont get the weather.
Maybe utility bike is the wrong description. The Genesis Brixton is the type of thing i am thinking of. So, front and rear racks, space for a frame bag if i want/need extra space. Some nice big capacity panniers/rack top bag. Geared to be rideable when loaded. Usage is weekly shop (only 1.5 miles away) plus in the week trips to local convenience store for bread/milk/beer top ups.
Revisiting the OP, this thread all got a bit ‘carry the world in an ebike’ - when literally fora couple of miles any bike with racks should do? Don’t overthink a 1.5 mile trip to the shops except for safety and security?
I chose a Dutch utility bike because I use it regularly, carry a lot, and will use constantly year-round in the town and city for a number of stop/starts so less faff + more stability (and security) and perma-readiness is useful to me.
For your brief, an old touring bike might even work (mine below with rackpack, pictured without big panniers which normally carry groceries), and I right now use it for same locally. As do I with my MTB (see further on), and even a kick-scooter with a rucksack for small shops.
Basically just use any bike you want! Choose a budget and list what you think will be important features (Y/N)? The Genesis bike you mention in OP will carry stuff of course but it’s simply a rigid mountain bike with IHG and racks/guards? IMO £1k seems a lot to spend for something relatively simple with few extras? When for slightly less money (say) a Gazelle Orange C8 offers so much more for the purpose?
https://bellsbicycles.co.uk/products/gazelle-orange-c8
A used one makes even more sense as they are built to last, aren’t wildly popular/trendy, and go on and on with little maintenance.
After some years of trying a number of bike options for grocery shopping/chores/local town-commuting there are features I would not now do without if looking for an ‘ideal’ utility/town bike (used often up to and including a ‘big shop’ , ie two massive panniers, a rackpack and a large front basket). I’m not including Bakfiets as I have no need with just two of us at home and access to a car if need be. Anyway:
1. Stepthru frame, better in every way for loading stopping and starting
2. Big kickstand, ideally two-legged.
3. Hub gear and roller brakes (low/no maintenance)
4. Full guards
5. Puncture-protect fattish tyres on strong wide rims
6. Wheels smaller rather than bigger (26” max) with low rear rack
7. Feet-fwd cranks (lower CoG/saddle and ability to park feet on ground while seated, yet still have correct pedal-efficiency/full stretch)
8. Onboard dynamo lighting always on
9. Integrated lock/s
10. Relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain while not looking super-nickable to scrotes.
OTOH? For 1.5 miles to the shop? Living in village 4 miles from town I used to take a Kona Lava Dome and a child trailer loaded with shopping bags! It worked. Nowadays I’m sometimes taking my Longitude to the supermarket, equipped with massive panniers.
But I really can’t wait to fix/repaint my Batavus/Dutch bike because:
1st and foremost: The Dutch utility/town bike works much, much better for the job/is more enjoyable for job and:
2nd and also utmost: I never, ever sweat with fear when it’s locked up outside Mozzers.
Can’t say the same about the Genesis. So although the Longitude gets ‘a’ job done (ie carries stuff) it utterly fails as a ‘car-replacement’ to my liking because it doesn’t tick nearly any of the 1-10 ideals I included in that list.
And it never goes into the city or town for multiple stops/lockups for all of those reasons + it’s my only MTB I can’t afford to lose it.
ymmv, but that’s the best advice I have. Your 1-10 list may look entirely different!
I've got an ecargo bike and it is the best bike I've ever had. It is expensive , but same as a mountain bike and ride it more.
To others points I haven't given up the car completely, but round town clocked up 400 miles din 6 months doings shortt tripst to the shops,child care etc. Amazing how it adds up.
For me without electric it would be a slog, whereas with the motor you can do it easy without needing a shower etc.
Also it's a bit like a vw transporter, high outlay, use it for a few years and still worth a fair bit.
I've got a Harry v Larry ebullit with a 8 speed hub gear (worth having something you can change gest without pedalling when you stop at the lights in the wrong gear, as you can't just pick up the rear and spin the wheel to get it in the right gear !)
Revisiting the OP, this thread all got a bit ‘carry the world in an ebike’ – when literally for a couple of miles any bike with racks should do? Don’t overthink a 1.5 mile trip to the shops except for safety and security?
I think this is kind of the nub of it.
The wonderful world of "Cargo bikes" and "Utility bikes" seems to be over run with awesome "Car replacement" pedal toy solutions. And while I'm sure they're great for cost blind, virtue signalling, middle classes to waft Hugo and Persephone off to nursery on, then trundle on to the Organic farmer's Co-op to pick up seasonal veg, the reality is most people would struggle to justify these gizmos.
My own "local utility" solution has been my fixed bike, for the simple reason that it's pretty much theft proofed by design, incredibly cheap to own and maintain, and rather than claim it's a "car replacement" bike, it's used more as an "occasional local Car journey replacement".
There's no need to dress these things up. If I need to grab something from the local shops, chemist or drop something round to a friend, I'll take the fixie, It's had a crappy old basket zip tied to the bars, I'm looking for a more permanent (cheap) front carrier solution but the point is it's got all I need to lug 30L of shopping/junk within a ~2 mile radius of home, and nothing more.
I get why you're looking at bikes like the Genesis Brixton OP, it' a nice looking bike.
But ultimately you could have something very similar just by slapping some Guards, panniers, a front rack and some more up upright bars on to any 2nd hand hybrid or old MTB, for less than half that Genesis' asking price. That's essentially all Genesis have done.
A normal bike with some added luggage capacity is a "Utility bike"...
Just go to Netherlands, Germany etc and everyone is on all sorts of bikes with loads of cargo bikes chucked in. Totally normal. Also totally normal to have all sort of different price point bikes.
Love this forum, people chucking shit loads on MTBs, but dare to spend a good amount on a intown bike and you're a middle class t**t. E bikes especially for town use carrying stuff are literally the best use case. Especially in typical non Netherlands scenarios.
Guess biggest problem is really that still as a nation we are shit at seeing bikes as transport in general.
We need a properly accessible shed/garage before we buy something as a local shopper.
We are less than a mile from all the local amenities and shops. We walk the vast majority, but a weekly shop for 5 (pre pandemic) was beyond our rucsac capacity.
However we have a right faff to get any bike out at present. A bit like electric car charging points, my own personal bike infrastructure needs an upgrade...
A normal bike with some added luggage capacity is a “Utility bike”…
Yes it is but for some - me included need a bit more than that hence I have an electric kit and a trailer. I would have a backfiets if I had anywhere to store it.
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I’m 6’3″ and found most dont cater to that here in the UK.
The cabby is a single size, but with a long quill stem to get the bars up and a long seatpost I don't find it an issue (at 6'2). The riding position is intentionally upright, so reach (which must start with a 1) isn't an issue.
For me without electric it would be a slog, whereas with the motor you can do it easy without needing a shower etc
Each to their own. I use my cargo bike as a form of exercise as well as transport, so after the 7 mile morning home-nursery-supermarket-school-home run loaded up (bike plus 2 kids is probably over 200lbs), I don't feel like I need to get another ride in to stay fit..
We have a Tern GSD which falls into the category of more expensive than my car, though a lot less than the wife’s. What it’s allowed us to do is only 3 school trips by car since September, family grocery trips on the weekend (round trip of 20-26 miles to get the veg box, eggs and bread), and general running around with the 4 1/2 year old to go playing/riding.
It’s quicker than using the car for the school run which is 2 miles each way. No hassles with parking. It replaced a trailer as the boy was getting too heavy to tow behind around hilly semi-rural Welsh valleys.
Guess biggest problem is really that still as a nation we are shit at seeing bikes as transport in general.
+1
I also can’t either see the value of projecting negative ‘value-judgments’ on people riding expensive bikes to buy well-sourced food.
That ‘fence’ never gets sore because I ride a very nice used/(bought for peanuts) deluxe Dutch town bike to Mozzers, Lidl, local vegan/wholefood shop, and the free range egg hamlets.
All makes sense to me, and I don’t give a toss what other people think as long as they keep their cars/vans and/or mitts away from me. If I had a £4k+ budget and better local infrastructure I’d certainly buy a nice ebike to do long loaded trips more quickly/without beating myself up (in all senses) especially as getting older/more injured.
the reality is most people would struggle to justify these gizmos.
So what? I see that as a problem rather than a scold.
Most people ‘justify’ making all of their trips by car/van etc. And they don’t ‘struggle’ to justify it. They just do it.
The question I have, though, whether something like an old child’s trailer that child has grown out of might not be a practical option?
Kept our chariot cx2 for just this. It's perfect for living in town, folds to go in the shed, means we can use with our normal bikes. We load boxy bags at the checkout, straight into the trailer outside. I can do a week's shop for 4.
I've an eBullitt, but really only thanks to the scheme here in Munich that gives you back 25% of the ticket price (up to a grand) of an electric cargo bike.
Oddly the scheme doesn't include analogue bikes.....
My bike was 5200€, minus 19% VAT, minus €1000....so it ended up costing me 3200€.
Already have a Bob yak trailer that was often used for shopping, carrying crates of beers, bbqs down by the river and carting tools around. The eBullitt had essentially replaced the trailer, and yes, it was quite a decadent purchase.
I tend not to use the bike motor much other than pulling away from stationary when loaded up.
We tended not to use the cars much day to day, anyhow. I'll use my van when I need to, but I prefer to load up the Bullitt before I have to turn the key in the ignition.
How do you link to Instagram?
#cargobike #bullitt. #bullittbike #larryvsharrybullit
Roller cam brakes seem great on the well maintained bike routes of Denmark but were a constantly rattly annoyance on the bumpy potholed tar and chipping roads of the UK. Glad to go back to discs (although things like bb7s do have corrosion seizing problems in long term salt abuse). Also hub gear without roller brake means you can swap a tube without disconnecting cables. Hub and roller brake needs more stuff undoing.
I have a new 18 mile each way commute starting in summer, passing the supermarket about 5 miles before home. I'm just starting a replacement commuter frame and will carry over 700x37 wheels, hub dynamo, Alfine and guards. Fork will be a modified really short lugged Soma one with front brake and dynamo stuff run inside the steerer. With a long head tube that leaves space for a frame mount front rack so good for bulky / heavy things. And then an integrated low rear rack like the Cube one (Acid?) to also serve as mudguard mount. So a weatherproof fast 29er cx thing for the commute with added cargo capacity for collections in the last few miles.
So not replacing the car but avoiding extra trips.
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Yes there are tubes missing from the drawing. 🙂
Oddly the scheme doesn’t include analogue bikes…..
Huh? That verily sucketh.
Roller cam brakes seem great on the well maintained bike routes of Denmark but were a constantly rattly annoyance on the bumpy potholed tar and chipping roads of the UK.
Milages vary. Not had a either a puncture or problem with my Nexus rollers for 8 years now, Cornish farm tracks to Worcestershire potholes included. Could just be lucky but I’ve enjoyed the fuss-free riding and braking. Get the point about changing tubes, although a patch is possible simply by removing the tube with wheel in situ. Used to do that in the old days on my three speed road bike as a kid!
I’m just starting a replacement commuter frame and will carry over 700×37 wheels, hub dynamo, Alfine and guards
Looks ace, watching the space.
Huh? That verily sucketh.
Indeed it doesth.... But really I'm glad I've got the motor. Munich itself is relatively flat, but we don't tend to be here forever.
Thanks to the scheme there are now lots of cargo bikes (everything from sit up and beg kid carrying trikes, GSDs loaded with panniers to companies with eBullitts doing deliveries.
So what? I see that as a problem rather than a scold.
Most people ‘justify’ making all of their trips by car/van etc. And they don’t ‘struggle’ to justify it. They just do it.
Clearly I touched a nerve... Apologies.
Anyway, my point was in reference to the OP, who sort of seemed to be struggling with the concept/cost of a ~£1k utility adapted bike (the Genesis mentioned) Vs his actual use case (general "utility" within a couple of miles?). He then got lots of helpful suggestions which seemed to be pushing even more expensive, more niche cargo bikes, that others happen to have found great... For their own budgets and circumstances...
It just read like a bit of a "let them eat cake" sort of thread...
Frankly most people do need to "justify" their transport choices both to themselves, and often others (I know I'd struggle to explain spending £4k on a cargo bike to my missus). Honestly whether they use a bike to save money, the environment or just for the insta' likes is a personal thing. But you don't really "normalise" people choosing to cycle rather than drive by leaping to recommend unaffordable, inappropriate bikes when price is actually an issue...
Update.
After a weekend of discussions around car use, lifestyle, setting good examples for our kids, supporting local businesses and well sourced food, I have ordered the Genesis. Should be here on tuesday.
This is not purely about replacing the car, but is about many small things added together meaning the bike and the changes it will facilitate to our lives are well worth the outlay. We have always been a two car family so this will make it easier to become a one car family. Hence why i wasnt going full on cargo bike, we will still have a car for those big loads.
It will make it easier to visit multiple shops for groceries instead of the one stop shop at the supermarket. We will be supporting more local independent businesses as a result.
More of our groceries will be locally sourced and not flown from Brazil packed in plastic wrappers.
My commute (that i already do by bike) will now be easier to stop and pick up supplies on the way home.
As for the bike, my list of needs were as follows
Mudguards
Hub Gears
Front tray and rear rack
Disc Brakes
The Genesis fits the bill right out of the box. For me the front tray was important. Nothing appears easier than dropping a bag of shopping into the tray and taking off. I will have the option of bigger pannier on the rear if more space is needed. I also wanted something efficient to pedal and fast enough for the odd longer trip to my parents for example who live 15 miles away(this ruled out the Dutch style tank type bikes.
Random interjection
I’d love a bakfiets but way too many awkward restrictors (to keep motorbikes out) around here that I’d get stuck on if I wanted to use my usual cut-throughs.
@simon_g It might be worth asking the council for the Disability Discrimination Act assessment they did before putting restrictors in. There’s been a bit of discussion on Twitter about this - as they’re potentially discriminatory against adapted bikes a few councils have taken them out following challenge.
You'd be surprised how narrow some bakfiets are too. Mine will easily get through my pedestrian rear door of my garage, as well as through every offset gate-type restriction. I'm sure some things would stop it, but there's none round here.
Whilst we have the Dutch bike lovers in, any tips for improving performance of roller brakes? Mine have gone from passable to awful in 3 years of riding..
Clearly I touched a nerve… Apologies
no worries, and on my account as I say it’s not a ‘fence’ that hurts my arse. - I ride a used Dutch bike to the shops and city, £120 (purchase price) and some roller brake oil is literally all that it’s cost me in 8 years. This is what I’d recommend for constant use as a town/utility bike that carries a weekly shop/local trips. As per OP I recommended (for 1.5 miles) ‘any bike, don’t overthink it’
Although I agree with you that my fugly rusty Dutch bike (and the £80 British Eagle grandad bike I also use) are not helping ‘normalise’ using bikes for transport because there are the same amount of bikes locked outside Lidl for these last 15 years. ie one. ie mine. You got me there. Bang to rights! What should I ride to help ‘normalise’ people out of their cars? Actually I’ve been parking various inexpensive retro bikes outside of supermarkets and shops for 30 odd years now, yet my one bike is still the only one I see there 99.9% of the time. What am I doing wrong? Maybe if I bought a Bakfiets (devil’s advocate) it might garner attention and inspire someone else? (joke)
He then got lots of helpful suggestions which seemed to be pushing even more expensive, more niche cargo bikes, that others happen to have found great… For their own budgets and circumstances…
It just read like a bit of a “let them eat cake” sort of thread…
Like I said, that’s seemed an unkind value judgment/projection on your behalf (? I may be wrong, you may know the contributors personally), so if there was any ‘nerve’ touched it was just that.
I have a few ideas why often people *seem* only to read the title of threads and then still go ahead and simply recommend what they ride, yet you seem very sure that such contributions are of course the very worse kind of shallow, upper middle class ‘virtue signallers’ who must ride and shop what and where for one reason only - to send signals, look down their nose, to instagram or whatever it was?
I just thought it unnecessary/unhelpful, was all. Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. My guess is a wide group of people a few individuals got tarred with one wide brush 🤷🏻 simply for recommended what they ride/find useful
I know one thing for sure, ditching the car for a bike is not being ‘normalised’ in the UK, ever. Not in our lifetimes at least. Ride what you like/can/wish to/ afford?
The only thing I’d change about my utility choice in retrospect would be an alloy frame. Probably would not so comfortable over potholes, but the rust hereabouts is killing my steel as the utility/cargo bike has to live in damp outdoor storage.
@trailwagger - seems like a great choice for what you want, let us know how it works out! You could always replace/alternate the tray with a deep basket (if large wheels allow, this one reason I recommend smaller wheels/high headtube for cargo/ute) if required. When going solo I used an old ATB for ages with a basket on the front, it would fit a whole shopping bag and did the job very well except for not having a kickstand (a centre-stand would have helped, and maybe a spring on the steering, can’t remember what those are called, anti-wheel-flop device?!)
1 x 10l Rixen Kaul basket at half price left at CRC:
You could always replace/alternate the tray with a deep basket (if large wheels allow) if required.
This is my current Google mission and im drawing a blank so far. So if anyone has recommendations for the following it would be appreciated.
One bag for the commute. Big enough for a 13"laptop + small lunch box. waterproof and will go in the basket.
One large bag to fit in the basket. big enough to drop a carrier bag of shopping in and carry securely.