[Closed] Using *only* gears 2, 4 and 6 in a car - OK or not?

Is it some kind of psychological aversion to odd numbers?

8 for motorway? 😀

You mean it doesn't go up to 11?

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]8 for motorway?

Tinners wife = Tom Robinson and ICMFP

That's mad. How does she go round corners smoothly? I mean there'll be some corners where you want to be in third gear for maximum control for example.

Intrigued...

Well, the odd numbered gears are there for a reason.....

Pulling away in 2nd is going to be harder on the clutch.

I'm guessing being >3L it's got mountains of torque - in cases where 3rd is ideal, I'm sure it'll happily pull from 4th. Similarly from a stop in 2nd.

It is a bit odd though!

At least if she wears them out she'll be able to swap to 1st, 2rd and 5th

Can't imagine the clutch will be massively happy pulling away in 2nd all the time.

Did it for years with my 156 , still doing it with my work T6. Less is good for my clutch knee. I want flappy change now 😐

Pulling away in 2 will prematurely wear the clutch. Revving to the point the engine will pull the higher gear will waste fuel.

Not something I’ve ever come across before. I do miss gears out, dropping down the box, but never going up.

Good job it’s 3.0 NA lump.. otherwise pulling away in 2nd all the time would be painful! Clutch will be the main thing wearing prematurely IMO

That's mad. How does she go round corners smoothly? I mean there'll be some corners where you want to be in third gear for maximum control for example

Coasting?

What about hill starts?

I'm very averse to odd numbers, but this is outside of even my repertoire - might be something to try not to think about...

She goes around corners very smoothly and the car doesn’t protest at all - no chugging, no squealing, no smell of burnt clutch. She told me, tongue in cheek I think, that she’s so used to it by now that “it doesn’t feel right” pushing the lever “into” gear. All v smooth. My only concern is that there could be some sort of uneven 2, 4, 6 cog wear, but I honestly haven’t got a clue from a mechanical point of view

How does she go round corners smoothly?

Probably by slipping the clutch 😕

Not something I’ve ever come across before. I do miss gears out, dropping down the box, but never going up.

Likewise. I think I'd find it awkward to go 2nd to 4th to 6th. The 'muscle memory' of up and down the box is too ingrained

4th to 6th is pretty standard for me - often for accelerating to overtake and then returning to a slower speed.

No slipping of clutch and unless she drops below 15mph, it seems the journey is mostly completed in 6th. I wouldn’t have believed it unless I saw it but it’s all v impressive.

Surely it's more economical to use all the gears smoothly?

I regularly do this in the higher gears, 4th to 6th and back (in fact it wants to go to 6th from 4th and will resist going to 5th) for instance, but use 1st to pull away.

it seems the journey is mostly completed in 6th. I wouldn’t have believed it unless I saw it but it’s all v impressive

😀

That’s a very good question, Glenn. I was wondering similar. Made me question my preconceptions. I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or not tbh!

Maybe if she uses 2, 4 and 6 on even days on the month, and 1, 3 and 5 on odd days. That should balance out.

And she could use reverse every leap year.

While we're on this subject my wife rarely uses 1st or 6th when she drives my car (not sure when she's in hers; we rarely travel together in it).

This causes problems as comments along the lines 'How about we give 6th a go' or '1st is good for starting' tend to be received badly

Even a 3 litre engine isn't going to do a hill start in second is it? As above, I'll often go 4-6 etc

If you value your relationship I'd advise you to drop it. It's her range rover.

Surely it's more economical to use all the gears smoothly?

It's a big modern car. THey're like these new Enduro bikes. Motorists, like MTBers have become watered down; few can do it to a good standard these days.

Sounds like she would be well suited to an auto

I’ve just double checked and she says that she has *never* used 3rd or 5th and has only used 1st very rarely on the steepest of hillstarts. She reckons it has too many gears anyway and I can’t argue with that. Fair point. Has never burnt out a clutch either and hands down beats me for smooth driving and staying within the speed limit.

Very odd why those car makers would bother with all those extra gears if they didn't have a purpose?

A friends wife ended up with a fair few points on her licence as she insisted in getting into 5th as soon as possible, so despite being quite a slow driver was often over 30 in a 30 with the engine only just over tickover!

A big NA lump will have no problem with that. V8 mustang coped well enough with 3 gears...
If she’s smooth then probably less wear than a lot of drivers - I’m terrible for lunching gearboxes as my clutch use is rather ‘economical’. Economy isn’t really relevant if she’s driving a performance car, if she wanted 60mpg she’d have the car for that job.

Sounds good to me.. go on what car?

I’ve given up offering any driving advice to girlfriends, every one (and one girl that wasn’t) that’s driven my cars has crashed them into something, usually being my fault despite me being in the passenger seat.

Probably a bad time to ask, but is a worn clutch when you have to push it to the floor to change gear or only push it in a little bit to change gear?

short arms ?

get a 9 speed auto. that'll be in 5th before you can exit a 30 zone. lots of gear changes keeps it smooth, and saves fuel as a result.

all the gear ratios are always engaged, so they won't wear unevenly.

odd 😉 way to drive though.

is a worn clutch when you have to push it to the floor to change gear or only push it in a little bit to change gear?

It'll probably be fine. Wear will.of course be increased, but unlikely to be to a noticeable degree in the time that you'll own the car.

I remember reading about a 60s race car with no gears for super light weight. It just made do with a big v8. Not great from a standing start, but competitive elsewhere on track at the time. It also had drive shafts which acted us the top wishbone of the suspension.

I skip gears all the time. But [i]never[/i] using certain gears, that's odd. I'd have thought a 3L block plus never using first would equate to excessive clutch wear.

but is a worn clutch when you have to push it to the floor to change gear or only push it in a little bit to change gear?

Um, you should always push it to the floor to change gear. Can you not drive either? (-:

Are you talking about biting point?

Modern close ratio boxes are here for economy. Car engines have very narrow efficiency bands so missing out gears just means you’re not driving as economically as you could. Mechanically of course there is going to be more wear on the even gears and clutch and i don’t Believe for a second you can drive in 6th gear as low as 15mph without the car complaining, but engines and clutches are pretty robust these days so probably the additional wear and tear will be a problem further down he line for the next owner.

This is why auto boxes are almost always the best option for people.

Having had largish NA engines, I can understand that they will pull in pretty much any gear from any speed and easily reach any legal speed. Keeping it legal, you never needed anything more than 2nd in the Porsche for the majority of driving, not even near the red line. 1st only needed for parking.
Using the odd ones would be beneficial if you wanted to push on, but the car sounds perfectly capable of smooth driving in the evens.

A high bite point can be a sign of worn clutch depending on the car (some can’t be adjusted). So not pushing it in much in your description

Thanks Nick & Cougar. Yes, bite point, I mean. By that definition, the clutch isn’t worn (unless there’s some sort of self adjustment that corrects the bite point for wear)

After regularly reminding Madame that the car has five gears for a quarter of a century I don't have to anymore, we've gone electric. It's like driving the McRae rally simulator with the sound off: press the pedal to go faster, lift off to go slower.

You could argue that the increased clutch wear at setting off would be offset by fewer gear changes the rest of the time

As above, no damage (unless riding the clutch to get it going), just not the most economical/performant way to drive. My wife seems to try to set off in 3rd gear sometimes, as she's forgotten to change down to first when coming to a stop, then slams it (once crawling along) back into first to get some power. If we ever have a car worth any money, it'll be an auto

Skipping gears going up is fine, e.g. say you're using 2nd to accelerate quickly you might want to go straight into 4th once you're up to speed. Others have pointed out all the reasons why doing it all the time is weird and not the most efficient driving.

Do it all the time but not starting at 2, we were taught to do it when I did my driving training at work.

Here’s the rub. She drives more economically than me too and can average up to 5mpg average better than me. Not the best experiment because I’m not always trying to drive economically in that particular car, but still the smoith and gentle 2, 4, 6 approach mostly trumps my ham fisted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 technique.

I think 3rd gear is my favourite. Why would you want to miss it? 5th I could live without.

Although a bit weird, I can't see an issue with it. The kind of car that has a >3l NA engine, is going to have a clutch fitted that's suited to the torque.

I drove a 6l V8 NA Corvette recently and found you could basically use 3rd from stationary, all the way up to mumble-mumble-mumble speeds, such was the torque of the engine. Didn't require any slipping of the clutch to pull away.

I know my 3l Jag always pulls away in 2nd, albeit with an auto box. I'm pretty sure it then shifts straight to 8th if just driving normally. Even the 2l variants of the car start off in 2nd for smoothness.

Here’s the rub. She drives more economically than me too and can average up to 5mpg average better than me. Not the best experiment because I’m not always trying to drive economically in that particular car, but still the smoith and gentle 2, 4, 6 approach mostly trumps my ham fisted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 technique.

Presumably she's [i]under[/i] revving it in 4th (compared to using 3rd) rather than [i]over[/i] revving it in 2nd. Under revving will have less of an impact than over revving on fuel economy. My wife's car has a little arrow that appears on the dash telling you when to change up for max economy; I'm always surprised how early it tells you to change.

Although a bit weird

By that definition, the clutch isn’t worn (unless there’s some sort of self adjustment that corrects the bite point for wear)

Hydraulic clutches self adjust in the same way as hydraulic brakes.

Fuel economy is mostly affected by acceleration so your wife is probably getting better economy simply by accelerating less and nothing to do with gear selection.

CVT gearboxes are the best as they hold constant revs and hold the engine at the most efficient RPM all the time. A manual gearbox only approximates that so in theory if you didn't have a 6 speed gear box and had a 100 gear box then you'd be changing gear constantly to match the efficiency of a CVT. So by skipping gears you're either picking up the next gear too low in the rev range and increasing load on the engine (and therefore fuel flow), or holding the current gear for too long and too high RPM rather than changing gear at the optimal time.

All academic really so doesn't really matter in the real world as it probably has a very small negligible effect anyway. But again just highlights the case for an auto box. If people can't be bothered to change gear when they should then just let the box do it. You'll be in the best gear more of the time.

I wouldn't worry about clutch wear. On modern cars it seems a clutch is still easily good enough for 80 - 100k miles even if you abuse it. It seems to me the majority of people sit at traffic lights riding their clutches anyway which is the worst thing you can do for the clutch. Changing gear too early doesn't really slip the clutch so not really too abusive.

She seems to drive fine I reckon, if she’s not breaking the car or it’s not complaining why would you.

Most Autos start off in 2nd unless you boot it (mine does) then quickly slips into 5th before you’ve hit 30mph and it’s doing 1100rpm..

has resorted to “fine tuning it on the starter” on a few occasions

What's the car?
Second hand car buyers need to be warned. 🙂

does it cause any sort of damage or uneven wear?

Generally not, clutch wear on hill starts being the obvious exception. When I was a kid, 3 speed manual gearboxes were still common, this is basically the same thing.

She reckons it has too many gears anyway and I can’t argue with that. Fair point.

You can argue with it and it’s not a fair point!

From reading this thread I reckon it’s too late for you however 😉

If she’s labouring it at any point or if it’s a 4cylinder engine then increased/premature big end wear and potential driveline damage as the 750cc (if it’s a 4) power pulses are more spread out during a time when oil pressures are lower due to lower engine speed = more chance of the oil film between the big end bearings shearing and wear occurring.
Same with the driveline - the DMF (if fitted) is wobbling itself stupid trying to avoid the big/slow power pulses from damaging further components.
Engines are happiest when spinning faster under light loads - the taxi drivers favourite of being in top gear asap is the best way of wearing out cars.

Does she have long legs and short arms?

CVT gearboxes are the best as they hold constant revs and hold the engine at the most efficient RPM all the time

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I'm sure I've read somewhere that Audi was going to scrap their take on the CVT (Multitronic) in favour of DSG due to efficiency reasons.

I guess CVTs lose efficiency through all the belt/pully trickery whereas a DSG is good old-fashioned cog-on-cog action.

As others, I do it a lot but not all the time. I think the move to have more and more gears has led to having too small a gap most for the time.

I have 6 gears whereas a good few years back I would have had 4 which is almost the same as skipping a few gears in the 6 speed.
Having 20 gears in an automatic is fine but more and more gears in a manual can be annoying.

I rarely use third in my car (vauxhall Zafira) and sometimes set off in second. I’ll jump from second to fourth occasionally too. Will I die?

Eventually

I remember seeing a V8 trike at a biker rally, the builder had junked the gearbox completely as it was unnecessary when just propelling an engine & 3 wheels down a drag strip.
Some modern cars have way more gears than necessary, but "must have n gears" comes into the marketing strategy

I knew that bikes have gone up to 11 speed, but had no idea that some cars have 6 gears!

I'd love to know how she got where she is now.

Did she start by missing 3rd and then think well, I might as well give 5th a miss too and then, finally, let's drop 1st too and see how it goes?

3rd gear - the gateway missed ratio, don't avoid it folks.

C’mon.. some autos are 7 speed and have been for a couple of years.. see Merc.

I knew that bikes have gone up to 11 speed, but had no idea that some cars have 6 gears!

Every mid range family car I've owned for the last 10 years has had 6 gears!

It’s a powerful (>3L) normally aspirated performance car that she drives gently

Mrs T is Her Maj, right?

I knew that bikes have gone up to 11 speed, but had no idea that some cars have 6 gears!

Mainstream manufacturers have been doing 6 speed for 20 years - the latest (auto) gearboxes are 10 speed (porsche have a 7 speed manual but that appears to be the only one, excluding things with low-range selectors etc)

If she’s labouring it at any point or if it’s a 4cylinder engine then increased/premature big end wear and potential driveline damage as the 750cc (if it’s a 4) power pulses are more spread out during a time when oil pressures are lower due to lower engine speed = more chance of the oil film between the big end bearings shearing and wear occurring.

not sure why 4cl (which is unlikely, but just about possible) would be worse than a 6? yes the pulses would be bigger but the oil pressure/bearing speed would be the same? Either way, most engines (in fact all that aren't broken) have acceptable oil pressure at idle - as long as shes not forcing it significantly below that, the pressure is fine so whats the issue?

She’s been doing it for years, apparently. Says now so ingrained that pushing stick forward into gear “doesn’t feel right”. She likes to keep a small bag in front of the gear lever, where she can get at her stuff, and says that the 2, 4, 6 routine helps with that as well because there’s more space in front of the gearstick. She has a number of similarities with her Maj (but not the tax evasion!)

PS Not a 4 cyl but very interesting comments about that. Thanks for contributions. Really interesting.

I shift from 4th to 6th every now and then after accelerating onto the motorway.

And I'm pretty sure the 1975 Buick Century we drove round BC for 9 months was a 3 speed box. 5.7l V8.

Good excuse for a picture!
[img] [/img]

3 speed manual was common on Aussie 3l cars, and 2 speed autos. coped just fine, though obviously they didn't need to support particularly high top speeds.

When accelerating up to a speed where 6th is not labouring the engine, it might be that the lower number of transients makes up for the suboptimal revs (actually the engine speed doesn't make much difference on high load as it would be whilst accelerating, as long as you're shifting up to 6th once you're up to speed).

However:
1) IT'S JUST WRONG. 4th to 6th after accelerating from time to time, fine. but this is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

2) It might cause a bit more wear to the synchros (from shifting gear with a bigger differential in the revs all the time)

3) and to the clutch (from slipping more in 2nd - it will be slipping more - but as long as it's not getting really hot the difference will be minimal)

4) It will wear the gears unevenly - yes all are engaged all the time, but 2nd, 4th and 6th are all on one shaft in an H pattern gearbox, so the load will always be going through that shaft. It might or might not make much difference in reality, bearing in mind you drive round in 6th most of the time anyway.

5) It's wrong.

I want to be nice about the fact that apparently she's driving smoothly and getting good fuel economy and stuff, but gaaah. I hate you OP for even telling me about this abomination.

Could the OP compensate by only using 1st 3rd and 5th while he's driving it?

My first car was a Volvo 340. It had very low mileage, but the clutch was knackered.
It had been my grandmother's car. I think she didn't have the strength to push the gear stick left and away from her to select first gear, so she always set off in 3rd with lots of revs.

OP - your wife doesn't have a condition like FSH-MD which might make using the gear stick properly difficult by any chance?

wwaswas - Member
Could the OP compensate by only using 1st 3rd and 5th while he's driving it?

I hate you, too.

I used to use 1st, 3rd and 5th in my 205 1.9Gti when bimbling when it was warm, mostly cos it was rather over engined for normal driving and in traffic I got a bit bored.
I'd tell my 23year old self off If I had a time machine