[Closed] using a phone while driving

what a load of bollocks

Can you summarise for those without accounts?

I did a "What's Driving Us Course" where a good portion of the room had been caught for using a phone whilst driving (not me), so interested in this.

This covers it.

https://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/high-court-clarifies-law-on-mobile-phone-usage/

Basically they've managed to set a precedent where if you're not using your phone to text or call, you're probably ok.

Jimmy Carr was dictating jokes into his, blokey in the article above was using it to film, (!) but lawyers have managed to argue that this didn't constitute 'using' the phone as defined by the current law.

the Administrative Court yesterday decided that Ms Wood’s arguments were correct. The regulations refer to using:

‘a hand-held mobile telephone or other hand-held interactive communication device.’

The word ‘other,’ the judges decided, works to confine the meaning of ‘using’ to phones being used ‘for an interactive communication’ function. As long as the film was being recorded rather than transmitted or uploaded onto the internet, there was no such function, so Mr Barreto was in the clear.

In that particular instance I presume the police could have gone after them for driving without due care and attention or is there some other law like driving whilst distracted?

Yeah, like a lot of points of law, if you have someone decent defending you and you're prepared to take it to court... I suspect most people just go "ya got me" and do the course whatever they were doing with the phone.

yeah, that's cos cyclists are the real menace on the road and we need to spend more time prosecuting them instead #scourgeofthestreets

I’ve never understood why using a radio/walkie talkie is allowed? Functionally the same as a phone, no?

It's been proven using a phone even hands free is distracting as you "have" to concentrate on the conversation, radios not so.

I’ve never understood why using a radio/walkie talkie is allowed? Functionally the same as a phone, no?

Using either you could be done for driving without due care and attention. This just clarifies what the intention of the specific mobile phone legislation was / is.

It does make sense from a legal perspective.

In that particular instance I presume the police could have gone after them for driving without due care and attention or is there some other law like driving whilst distracted?

Possibly but not definitely. There is an offence of not being in proper control of the vehicle, which is how we did people driving while on the phone before the specific legislation came in, but to use that there needs (or at least needed) to be some evidence of them not being in proper control. For example, a driver erratically wobbling their way round a roundabout because they were twiddling the wheel with one hand while holding the phone in the other, we could do them for that. Someone driving otherwise just fine but talking on the phone, that wasn’t enough for the CPS to take it (*). Hence the introduction of the specific phone legislation that didn’t require any evidence of not being in proper control - the offence accounted for the potential for crap driving that holding the phone presented, even if it hadn't occurred yet.

The law as enacted was fine when mobile phones just did calls and texts - they didn’t do anything expect communication functions. Not now though - if you’re fiddling with it to play music it’s not that different to fiddling with a touchscreen radio. Distracting/unsafe as a phone can be, undoubtedly, but not a stand alone offence. Same as eating a pie, smoking a fag, scratching your balls and so on.

(*) - been 9 years since I did anyone for a traffic offence, but that was the position with the ‘not in proper control’ offence then. Like driving in flip flops, perfectly legal if you maintain proper control, not legal if you can’t.

👍 Thegreatape thanks for clarifying.

I think a growing problem is the sophistication of in car systems with their touch screens. fiddling with phones is positively encouraged by the apps themselves. There is no place in hell hot enough for people who use their phones (for anything) whilst driving and I never use mine, however I do attach it to my Bluetooth and play podcasts/playlists etc whilst it is in a cradle on the air vent. Lots of apps sense this and present you with large buttons on the screen (which I never touch) encouraging me to FFWD etc.
In reality those buttons are probably at least as safely usable as those on my stereo but it is a slippery slope

If I'm using my phone in the car for music or the radio then it sits in a cradle with it's back to me. I can't even see the screen let alone use it. I can skip tracks or change the volume from the car radio and answer calls from that as well, not that anyone ever calls me

Most of the people on my course weren't making phone calls - it was all "I just picked it up to turn it off/reject a call/shoot an Angry Bird" all that type of thing.

Disciplinary offence if I use a hands free phone while driving for work.

Great fun when your boss complains you didn't answer their call. "I had to wait till there was somewhere safe to pull over"

Got to say i think it's a good ruling, it might stop politically motivated laws being enacted which haven't been through proper due process, of are outdated and out of touch with reality. AS has been said, there generally always is a law in place that can be used for an offence, but often politcally (media) is driven to say you need it being spelt out as a unique law. (if that makes sense).

There was/is an old fudder of an MP who has form for this, i think he stopped the "upskirting" law thing, becuase he quite rightly pointed out there were adequate powers in place to stop it, but the high profile of it eventually meant it was passed.. there was another one, think to do with kids he did the same with, that didn;t go down well, but the argument was sound, it just seemed like he was out of order when it was looked out of context.

just to add, i dont condone using a device when in control of a vehicle, be it a "phone", fag etc, but what ever laws we have need to be fit for purpose and the age we live in.

I had to google “upskirting”
Wow. There are some strange people in the world.

had to google “upskirting”

Really? Blimey, it's one of the things the Internet was invented for! 😆

Really? Blimey, it’s one of the things the Internet was invented for!

No it's one of the things cameras were put on phones for. Allegedly.

I had to google “upskirting”
Wow. There are some strange people in the world.

Some people lead sheltered lives! When I was a nipper, it was always made a joke that a pair of shoes with very highly polished toecaps let the wearer look up women’s skirts!

No it’s one of the things cameras were put on phones shoes for. Allegedly.

FTFY

I think its great. You now video nobbers texting or talking in their phones without fear of prosecution. Then you can fwd this video to the police and prosecute the law breakers, without breaking the law itself. " Nope, I wasnt on the phone , or using my phone as a phone but as a video camera" ...ahh thats ok then .
The real world reality is holding a phone in your hand as a dictaphone, video camera, stills camera , sat nav etc is still going to as big, or bigger distraction to the user than making a phone call. To video you really have to look at the screen to ensure you are caturing the image you want. To video or take selfies etc you have to press many buttons to get the thing working.

I was told by my mate who used to be a traffic cop that the reason they can use 2 way comms is because its a give then take system. You press to talk, give a message , they press to talk, you recieve a message . Its not open comms. And that is in itself very open to question and somewhat ambiguous.

Undoubtedly using non-phone features of a phone while driving is equally if not more distracting than talking on it, but as I said earlier, this relatively new legislation still predates modern smartphones, hence the current anomaly.

There has been debate since it came in as to whether police (and presumably other emergency services) radios fall under it. Arguments for and against have been made repeatedly. I’m not sure what the current position is, probably legally there isn’t one until a precedent has been set in court. Might be something to do with what frequency it’s on, that vaguely rings a bell.

In Scotland our Motorola Airwaves radios are going to be replaced by a Samsung smartphone/PTT radio hybrid device, so that’ll bring in another level of debate no doubt. Not that they’ll work properly up here, since they’re going to be using the 4G/5G system, so fine in a city but as much use as the SPF in the Highlands 😀

Don't forget the widely held assumption that provided the phone is in a holder, one can continue to Snapchat without restrictions.

Disappointing for a couple of reasons. The first is that it's a convoluted interpretation of the statue to achieve a change in the law; contrast, for example, with the law on knives which has a very literal interpretation.

The second is that it makes enforcement almost impossible and the roads will be more dangerous as a result. In the past the prosecution only needed to prove that the phone was in use, which could be done by witnesses. Now they need to prove call logs, which will involve forensics and evidence from the phone company. A time and resource stretched police force won't bother.

Now they need to prove call logs, which will involve forensics and evidence from the phone company. A time and resource stretched police force won’t bother.

You flat out won’t get that data from phone companies for that level of offence, and if ‘wont bother’ = ‘can’t afford to’ then you’re entirely correct on that point.

But you can be done for not being properly in control of your vehicle, regardless. That's how people get caught drinking coffee, or eating their breakfast when in traffic. Driving without due care and attention? Or Not being in proper control of a motor vehicle?

Examples of not being proper control are:-

Eating apples, bananas, sweets, chocolate, fish and chips
Putting makeup on
Reading maps/papers
Drinking coffee/tea/pop
Using a phone, other than for a call or texting

And let's not forget the dude in question was filming the "aftermath of a serious collision". So well done for a nob, despite getting off.