[Closed] Used DSLR camera advice

Pro commercial lifestyle photographer who has used them all.

I would suggest:

A6000- https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-mirrorless-cameras/used-sony-mirrorless-cameras/sony-alpha-a6000/sku-1302900/

Kit lens- https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-lenses/used-sony-lenses/sony-e-pz-16-50mm-f-3-5-5-6-oss/sku-1228056/

50mm- https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-lenses/used-sony-lenses/sony-e-50mm-f-1-8-oss/sku-1223161/

If dead set on DSLR, at that budget, then get a second hand (battered condition - that's fine) 5d ii + lens off mpb.

But I'd strongly suggest mirrorless, these days. Especially if he likes stop motion etc, they link up with computers much more happily etc. And more modern etc. Much better focusing.... The A6000 video quality is outstanding. The pictures are really good. The AF blows the 5d out the water. Etc.

Mpb are a very very safe bet. Ebay usually fine but faff.

From your description, I think that a dSLR is perhaps the wrong choice. It's almost definitely the wrong choice at that budget, a dSLR can be a money sink.

What's the goal here? You've said he wants to "move on" but, to what? To do what? Why? Does he want to "start taking pictures" or "learn photography"?

I'd be looking at an Ixus (pocket-sized) or a Powershot (fully featured). You can get a ninja Powershot within budget, but it's pointless if he just wants a point & shoot. The best camera is the one you have with you, by that metric the best camera I ever had was an Ixus because it never left my coat pocket.

I've a pretty much new Canon A2000D and EF-S 18-55 V3 lens for sale. It's got less than 100 actuations, strap, battery and charger. All boxed and warranty not registered.

It was part of his college course - but he bought shinier Nikon and set of four lenses instead.

£300 posted.

Another vote for mirrorless. We picked up a Panasonic GX7 and kit lens from MPB last year, it has removable lenses (using the micro-4/3rds standard) and all the manual controls you could want, but is a lot smaller/lighter than a typical Canon/Nikon DSLR.

I would suggest:

A6000-

Very good advice. I've used one, and it's a cracking camera for the money. More than capable of 'proper' photography, without breaking the bank.

If dead set on DSLR, at that budget, then get a second hand (battered condition – that’s fine) 5d ii

Not that though. The 5D is a very large, heavy camera compared with something like the Sony, and nowhere near as 'portable'. Plus it's the larger full frame format, so lenses will be more expensive and generally larger and heavier.

This would be far better for a'beginner':

I’ve a pretty much new Canon A2000D and EF-S 18-55 V3 lens for sale. It’s got less than 100 actuations, strap, battery and charger. All boxed and warranty not registered...£300 posted.

What’s the goal here? You’ve said he wants to “move on” but, to what? To do what? Why? Does he want to “start taking pictures” or “learn photography”?

Fair question. Although there's a lot of overlap. Photographers who consistently take good pictures, know how to because they've learnt the fundamentals; relationship between shutter speed, aperture, light metering, focal length etc. Which is why a camera with such controls being easily accessible, is very important. Many compacts only have 'manual' settings hidden away in menus, rather than having dedicated controls to hand. As for DSLR v 'mirrorless'; a DLSR will at least offer an optical viewfinder, which is much better for composing and seeing just what's through the actual lens, or a mirrorless camera with an electronic viewfinder will offer a similar experience. In that regard, I'd personally go for that Canon 2000D, over the Sony A6000.

No idea if it’s of any use, but I’ve got a Powershot SX70 HS I’m about to sell here. Belonged to a relative who I’m not sure ever used it

Budget seems reasonable for a used camera. I'd also suggest mirrorless having been shopping for one myself 6 months ago.

I ended up with a Fuji X-T10 which I'm enjoying using so much more than my phone or the old compact camera I had. It's not pocket sized but it's still small and light compared to a DSLR and has easy to use manual controls. It has a viewfinder but I prefer the screen having been used to phone photography.

Thankyou for your responses, some really useful info and suggestions for me to look at. I get my original question is a bit like saying ' my son wants to ride a bike so what bike should I buy,' but i really do know nothing on the subject yet would like to help my son progress with his interests.

I think, reading a bit online and comments here, a mirrorless camera is what he is after as i think it will be used more for starting off animation etc (he has also mentioned a programme called dragonframe) rather than pictures and mirrorless are a bit smaller and simpler?

I saw  reviews saying the Sony a6000 mentioned above is good and that mirrorless is better for stop motion stuff so thanks for that. I also saw a Canon m10 (any good?) for sale locally that looks quite simple to use which may help him learn the basics? Does the brand matter, i read you are tied to a brand for add ons later once you buy the camera as lots are not interchangeable. So would you say a canon may have more bits available later than say an Olympus etc (or if he gets that into it he is more likely to get a whole new camera rather than add ons in the years ahead). When looking at used what sort of shutter count would scare you off? See, told you I know zilch.

Ps thankyou for the offers of cameras (mattoutandabout I think you are only a few miles away from my mum's house) but i feel I need to do a bit more research and understand more about what he wants/needs before I take the plunge.

My son was given an old Canon 450D for his birthday by an Aunt, I was surprised to see how little the camera bodies could be bought second hand (£50-60) but the value was in the EF-S lenses which can be used on newer cameras. If he really gets into it we can always buy a mirrorless camera body and re-use his lenses. He's doing GCSE photography the other side to this is having a computer with Photoshop which obviously adds to the expense if you want to buy the equipment.

I saw reviews saying the Sony a6000 mentioned above is good and that mirrorless is better for stop motion stuff so thanks for that. I also saw a Canon m10 (any good?) for sale locally that looks quite simple to use which may help him learn the basics? Does the brand matter, i read you are tied to a brand for add ons later once you buy the camera as lots are not interchangeable. So would you say a canon may have more bits available later than say an Olympus etc (or if he gets that into it he is more likely to get a whole new camera rather than add ons in the years ahead). When looking at used what sort of shutter count would scare you off? See, told you I know zilch.

That canon has a relatively unusual mount and needs an adapter for most canon lenses. Olympus along with Panasonic use the common microfourthirds mount which has loads of lens options. The Sony mirrorless mount is also well supported

MY take is that mirrorless brings video and smaller size to the party.

But DSLRs and lenses can be incredible value for photographs. Feel free to ask for specific Nikon recommendations

 

Ps thankyou for the offers of cameras (mattoutandabout I think you are only a few miles away from my mum’s house) but i feel I need to do a bit more research and understand more about what he wants/needs before I take the plunge.

No worries, I only mentioned that one I have as it'll be going on eBay tonight anyway. If you find out that it is the sort of thing he's after then just drop me a line and I'm sure a deal can be done!

My son was given an old Canon 450D for his birthday by an Aunt, I was surprised to see how little the camera bodies could be bought second hand (£50-60) but the value was in the EF-S lenses which can be used on newer cameras. If he really gets into it we can always buy a mirrorless camera body and re-use his lenses. He’s doing GCSE photography the other side to this is having a computer with Photoshop which obviously adds to the expense if you want to buy the equipment.

You can use the lenses via an adapter on mirrorless. Plus Canon aps-c is the least well supported mirrorless mount. It's not an ideal arrangement

But yes that camera is crazy good value as are the lenses. They are still making bodies for efs lenses and Canon beats Nikon for video on a DSLR.

My son was given an old Canon 450D for his birthday by an Aunt, I was surprised to see how little the camera bodies could be bought second hand (£50-60) but the value was in the EF-S lenses which can be used on newer cameras.

I started (not all that long ago) with a 450D. It's a good camera.

Camera bodies depreciate vertically. Glass holds its value very well.

Ps thankyou for the offers of cameras (mattoutandabout I think you are only a few miles away from my mum’s house) but i feel I need to do a bit more research and understand more about what he wants/needs before I take the plunge.

Correct - the reason that is for sale is that he as a Nikon that is better suited for all sorts of reasons (tutor who used Nikon mainly) for last years photography course he did. Even to doing a part time course at college, I am not sure my son really uses the kit he has that well, perhaps because of a lack of contact time last year, but also because the technology and 'buttons' distract from the creativity that is photography for him. I do wonder if a point and shoot 4/3 camera might have suited him better, even on that course....

Not too much to add as there are far more knowledgeable folk than me on this thread already, but I will say that MPB (linked on the first reply) are great. Wish there was something like this for bikes really and I'd much rather shop with them than take a risk on ebay. OK, you pay a bit more, but there is plenty of choice, you can trust the descriptions of the quality, they ship promptly with everything well packed and they will buy it back off you next year when he wants something else.

Personally I prefer twiddling buttons than playing with menus, so picked up an older Fuji XT10 (mirrorless) with a 27mm pancake lens for around £400. Small enough to slip in a pocket, pack or handlebar bag (so it comes with me on most walks/rides) but can switch to bigger lenses if the mood takes me.

Having said that, a point and shoot is going to do stop motion stuff and they often come with more fun filters and effects to play with. Something like a Panasonic Lumix LX15 (which I sold to fund the Fuji) or Sony RX100 will do the job and can be had quite cheaply. But, in typical STW fashion, that's getting a long way from the original request for a DSLR 🙂

I always tell people that ask that all modern digital cameras are great, it doesn’t really matter what you use. Taking 10000 photographs is what helps you to learn, not the camera.
Having said that, the camera and exposure are only half the process, just as it ever was, so learning Photoshop is very important.

If he's going to be thinking about stop motion stuff, you may want to think about a tripod as well to keep the viewpoint of the camera static

Another vote for MBP as well

I have an old Canon 30D sitting in my cupboard as a spare.....would be a great starting point, served me really well. Might seem sub par when it comes to mp count at 8.2, but still produces great images.

On tripods,

As a starter, I have one of these and it's really handy.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pod-R0017-Camera-Platform-Black/dp/B001QOGVQQ

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pod-R0017-Camera-Platform-Black/dp/B001QOGVQQ
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mirrorless is better for stop motion stuff

The type of camera is irrelevant; for stop motion, all you need is control of the camera settings (shutter speed, aperture, white balance, ISO rating) so that you can replicate the same 'scene' exactly with each shot. And as mentioned, a tripod is essential. And it's crucial not to knock it, or have even the slightest bit of movement, so that bean bag thing above is pretty useless (fine for single snaps though).

As for brands; Micro 4/3rds is ok but larger formats are better for low-light photography and ultimate image quality. M4/3 lenses aren't all that cheap, relatively. The Nikon F mount offers the greatest choice of lenses that you can use (loads of 3rd party options too), Canon's mount will have plenty of choice, Sony doesn't have such huge choice though, and Fuji even less. Many mirrorless cameras now can use adapters to take other lens mounts, although functionality may be compromised (AF is often disabled, as are electronic aperture controls etc). And Pentax still use the K-mount, so a huge array of lenses to fit that too. Soem of the newer mirrorless cameras from Nikon and Canon use a new mount system (adapters are available) but then they're more expensive cameras anyway.

I will say that MPB ... are great. ...you can trust the descriptions of the quality, they ship promptly with everything well packed and they will buy it back off you next year

Hmm. I've stopped using MPB, as I've had too many items arrive that don't match their description; equipment obviously below the standard they've claimed. The last piece I sent back for having a dirty great fingerprint on the rear element of an expensive lens, which was described as 'near mint' (it wasn't anywhere near that regardless, in my view). And so far, I've only had one 'lemon' off Ebay, but that was pretty cheap, and I fixed it up and sold it on without loss. But it does help if you know what you're looking at.

I think the key bit of info is that the lad might want to make films. As said above for stop motion any camera will do but for films a newer camera will be better.

If the Canon M10 is a really good deal with some lenses and in good condition then go for it.

I’d also have a think about how he’s going to edit/manage these. I have a Nikon DSLR, but for ages didn’t have a proper computer so didn’t really use it. Eventually I got an iPad which was surprisingly capable for raw processing, and then a MacBook Air which is fab.

You mentioned moving away from the iPad. Worth thinking about now before the requests come in. Photos need to be edited somewhere.

Fwiw if I could buy again today, I’d go mirrorless (breaking from the STW tradition of recommending what you have).

If you go down the Canon DSLR route and pick up a used body, I have an unused EF-S 18-55mm kit lens you’re welcome to have for postage.

He is quite arty (not into computers) and into stop motions and used an I pad to make them for the last few years but wants to move on from the iPad. He has also said he would like to start taking pictures and maybe even short movies (not sure if Movies is an option if he is not into computers, editing etc?)

Regardless of the camera I’d be having the discussion about how he plans to process and compose his films? A considerable (often bigger) portion of a digital photography setup budget (IME) is normally the computer hardware/ie PC/monitor/laptop and software. Unless he already has/access to something suitable of course?

For stop motion films he may want to consider early on which software he plans to use (ie Dragonframe or something) so as to investigate camera/firmware compatibility.

And not all cameras offer high-resolution live-view/live-preview feeds (some will not offer either, which would be an inadvisable choice of camera for stop motion), which can be make or break when making tiny adjustments in a scene. For instance an old Canon 30D would not have a live view (was first introduced into EOS range with the 40D)

This video shows some ways around suitable vs unsuitable cameras for stop motion:

As P7eaven says software will be needed. Probably some kind of cataloging/image processing package to prep the still frames, and then a video editing package to import all the frames and create the video file.
Using a camera probably means that you are unable to use an app to do this for you as with the ipad.

Using the cataloging/imaging package (something like lightroom - academic rates available) allows him to collate the images by project and do any post-processing and then output in a resolution and format and renamed appropriately for the video package.
The Lightworks video editing package is free (for 720 HD) and allows a pretty good editing experience.

You might already have a PC MAC that you can use, but you'll probably need to look at how you store large amounts of image and video data so may want to invest in a large external drive.

That video is great, but bear in mind it is 5 years old, and the cameras used have been superseded by newer equipment. But it does illustrate the point that you don't need anything fancy. Also; he states how lenses are more important than camera bodies; this is very true; for general photography, a 'kit' lens like the 18-55mm may be perfectly adequate, but for stop motion work, something like a 50mm prime lens may be better in some instances, as it allows for a larger aperture, which influences depth of field more, and will be sharper, with less distortion etc. And with a Nikon or Canon mount camera, such lenses will be relatively very cheap. Then there's alaays macro/close up lens options, which again for those lens mounts, will be relatively inexpensive depending on what you choose. They can enable much closer work, for very small subjects.

As P7eaven says software will be needed. Probably some kind of cataloging/image processing package to prep the still frames, and then a video editing package to import all the frames and create the video file.

PP would more likely be applied to the video file. The frame-capture process typically uses live view/live preview and some stop-motion software with onion-skin etc to assist in composing the scene/organising scenes.

Of course, one could use in-camera effects/filters during capture but that would be irreversible so wouldn’t recommend.

Using a camera probably means that you are unable to use an app to do this for you as with the ipad.

This is why I mentioned Dragonframe. There is also a tethering app for ipads etc. OP, there is a 30 day free trial and also student rates for the full package, he may already know this!

Another vote for m43 here, I've got a used olympus em1 and it's great, has WiFi control etc and the lenses are cheap for fast, good quality prime lenses.

My 2p (TV camera guy).

DSLRs for video can work, but can also be a minefield, moreso for professional stuff but for amature use some of its relavent.

1) They're the wrong shape, so you'll need to add a decent cage/rig to the cost of the camera.

2) The viewfinder is in the wrong place, unless you compromise everything else about holding the camera.

3) File formats. The camera might be able to output 1080p in some format, but Avid/Sony MXF 50mbs (minimum broadcast standard for 1080 news footage, 100mbs is minimum for normal TV) takes a surprisingly large ammout of processing power not generally doable without the dedicated chip.

4) Lenses, DSLR lenses have stops on the appeture, they breathe whilst focusing, they lack remote controll. They're just the wrong tool for shooting video.

If he wants to move into shooting video I'd look at dedicated video cameras, Canon 305's come up cheaper every day*. The only thing you'll miss is the shallow depth of field (but then the lense for that would probably have cost more than a used 305 anyway.

* [Edit] Just looked, I tell a lie they were definitely cheaper a few years ago. But the same basic idea apply to any video camera Vs DSLR argument.

The viewfinder is in the wrong place, unless you compromise everything else about holding the camera.

(At least) for stop motion: live view output to monitor. Anything less is a compromise IMO

Can second Dragonframe if he's into stop motion. It's not cheap (about £300 iirc) but it's very intuitive and easy to use even though it's pro level software.
My son used it when he was going through a creative stage and won a national competition. Hasn't touched it for a couple of years now though.

I also know nothing about cameras, but fancied getting a dslr myself about a month ago. I jumped in head first without thinking alot about it. 😆 I'm impulsive like that!

I ended up getting a nikon d5100 with just the kit lenses, 18-55 and 55-300, I bought a few other bits and bits to go with it, cheap tripod and some cheap nd filters and polariser to try them out too.

only 16mp with isn't great these days, but still I'm happy with it, it's plenty for me and gives me everything I need. I'm only interested in stills though, haven't even looked at the video. don't think it's meant to be greta though. Entry level dslr even for 10 years ago, but it's all in good working order.

Should have probably looked for a deal all together and got it cheaper I think, but think it was 180 for camera and 18-55, 160 for the 55-300, then about 50 quid for other bits and bobs.

Does the damage for me anyhow. The d5200 and above are higher megapixels if you need that.

I just bought off ebay, everything is is great nick, shutter count was only 12000 or so.

only 16mp with isn’t great these days

You say that but,

Do you actually need anything higher? There are use cases of course but, what do most people do? Stick it on Facebook / Instagram. 16Mpx will get you an ~A4 print at a decent resolution, and it's far in excess of even a 4k monitor.

My 2p (TV camera guy)....

This is not good advice for someone wanting to start with photography and animation. Quite the opposite in fact. Best ignored.

At this stage, the most important thing is to learn the basics of photography, and using light. A simple, cheap second hand DSLR will be perfect for this. For learning animation, it really is about doing, trial and error. And watching loads of animation films; so many on YT etc. I would highly recommend Jan Svankmeyer's 'Alice', as an example of just how well simple ideas can work.

The full film is also available on YT. Svankmeyer is brilliant.

Another:

(At least) for stop motion: live view output to monitor. Anything less is a compromise IMO

Yea, I was focusing on the "He has also said he would like to start taking pictures and maybe even short movies". Different tools for different jobs.

only 16mp with isn’t great these days

You say that but,

Do you actually need anything higher? There are use cases of course but, what do most people do? Stick it on Facebook / Instagram. 16Mpx will get you an ~A4 print at a decent resolution, and it’s far in excess of even a 4k monitor.

There are benefits in terms of anti-aliasing from reducing the resolution later on. i.e even if your A4 printer is ~12MP then having significantly more pixels in the original will still produce better prints if processed correctly.

Cougar
Full Member
only 16mp with isn’t great these days

You say that but,

Do you actually need anything higher? There are use cases of course but, what do most people do? Stick it on Facebook / Instagram. 16Mpx will get you an ~A4 print at a decent resolution, and it’s far in excess of even a 4k monitor.

Aye I'm well aware of megapixels, I don't need any higher, prints fine at a3. but some for people doing, higher megapixels are good if you obviously do very large prints, but they are good if you like to crop right into an image too. but higher MP also comes at a cost too, ie more pixels more you'll notice sharpness issues more readily, most likely.

There are benefits in terms of anti-aliasing from reducing the resolution later on. i.e even if your A4 printer is ~12MP then having significantly more pixels in the original will still produce better prints if processed correctly.

aye there is that too. fair point.

Just to update.......after much googling etc, we could of shut this thread after the first reply from flannol 😂. The Sony a6000 it is. Seems really good value and even though it’s an ‘old’ camera it seems to still offer decent spec at a decent price for an entry level camera of this type.

many thanks everyone.