You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Hi all,
Back again with yet another used car issue.
You may remember the issues I had with a prvious used car purchase where I bought a Skoda Octavia with a few issues. After that went back I found a lovely little Seat Leon estate.
Its a 2019 2.0 TSI 190bhp engine and only covered 45600 miles when I collected it. car has now just ticked over 47000 so not a great amount of use.
The car sat unused for a month as I still had my company car but once I started using it all seemed great.
A week or so ago I was stuck in a long traffic queue and the car was idling for quite a while. When I pulled off there was quite a large plume of blue/grey smoke from the exhaust. I've since been monitoring it and if its left idling or in traffic then when you pull away its chucking out smoke.
The engine oil level seems to have dropped quite a bit too and I've had to top it up a bit.
It runs okish, the cooling fans are on quite often but apparently that is common with this engine as it has a GPF?? and sometimes it feels down on power. MPG isnt that great either to be honest.
I also drove it for the first time in the dark the other day and noticed that one of the headlights isn't self leveling when the car is turned on so potentially a headlight motor has gone too.
As I'm in the first 6 months of ownership I guess I need to contact the supplying garage who were a car supermarket in Bury Manchester.
What is the liability here under the SOGA? Am I right in that I have to give them one attempt to fix it and if they cant they have to refund, minus a sum for usage?
Ive spent a bit of money on things like new tyres, wipers and floor mats but does that matter?
Any help or pointers would be great.
Blue smoke after being sat idling indicates worn turbo oil seals. The oil leaks past the seals into the turbo and accumulates then when you drive off gets burnt resulting the the blue smoke.
Time for a new or reconditioned turbo.
VW will tell you using a litre of oil per 1000 miles is within specification.
Even when you can see blue smoke billowing from the exhuast?
I think you are right on the usage if its a diesel but this is petrol
I hope it's not the Bury Supermarket I'm thinking of - apparently not a great reputation. I went to look at three 'van people carriers' - one was right spec, but they had cleverly taken photos, and on arriving it did not have two rows of rear seats, it was missing the whole last row ? Van next to it was a basic spec, so no. Wandered inside the garage, and saw another (Peugeot Traveller) - I can only think it was being prepped but the electric doors didn't work the inside was a state and the rear seats torn or missing parts ? Also had a look at a Pug Rifter Long, looked OK other than a massive scratch down one side - who puts a vehicle up in the showroom like that ?
What is the liability here under the SOGA? Am I right in that I have to give them one attempt to fix it and if they cant they have to refund, minus a sum for usage?
Register the problem with them ASAP, see what they say and go from there. The detailed advice can come later, if needed, from those who know (not me) 🙂
I hope it's not the Bury Supermarket I'm thinking of - apparently not a great reputation. I went to look at three 'van people carriers' - one was right spec, but they had cleverly taken photos, and on arriving it did not have two rows of rear seats, it was missing the whole last row ? Van next to it was a basic spec, so no. Wandered inside the garage, and saw another (Peugeot Traveller) - I can only think it was being prepped but the electric doors didn't work the inside was a state and the rear seats torn or missing parts ? Also had a look at a Pug Rifter Long, looked OK other than a massive scratch down one side - who puts a vehicle up in the showroom like that ?
Starts with an M
Motortrust?
Re. tatty looking cars on forcourts, I don't think it's that unusual because the garage don't want to spend on preparation and then waste that money if it doesn't sell and goes back into the trade. Up to the buyer to state what they want fixing before collection or try for a small condition based discount.
Sorry a diversion. Hope you get your Leon sorted OP. We've got an order one, it's been a great car.
Motorparks would be my guess.
Good luck!
Is the wear on the pedal rubbers, seats, steering wheel, brake discs... compatible with 47 000 miles?
Even when you can see blue smoke billowing from the exhuast?
I think you are right on the usage if its a diesel but this is petrol
It'll say in the user manual what they consider to be an acceptable amount of oil usage, but most petrol cars I have owned, stated an acceptable amount was 1 litre per 1000 miles.
But if the turbo is worn out, then it needs replacing, the oil usage is irrelevant in that case, as the turbo is worn.
You'll have to approach the seller about fixing the various issues under warranty and then go from there.
Presumably it came with a 12 month warranty, so start by reading the t and c for that and see whether it excludes the bits that are broken.
I went to Motor Trust - changed name since last year though...
Blue smoke = burning oil. Cause could be anything.
As I'm in the first 6 months of ownership I guess I need to contact the supplying garage who were a car supermarket in Bury Manchester.
What is the liability here under the SOGA? Am I right in that I have to give them one attempt to fix it and if they cant they have to refund, minus a sum for usage?
Firstly, the SOGA hasn't existed (for consumers) for ten years. The CRA is what is relevant here.
Secondly, yes, and yes. Buying from a dealer (or as in your case, a bona fide trader) gives you the same rights as new. Bear in mind though that this is caveated by "reasonable." In this instance I'd suggest that it's more than reasonable to expect a five-year old car of lower-average mileage to do more than 1500 miles before exploding.
Ive spent a bit of money on things like new tyres, wipers and floor mats but does that matter?
I doubt it.
You'll have to approach the seller about fixing the various issues under warranty and then go from there.
Do. Not. Mention. Warranties. How many more times does this need to be said? You are not making a warranty claim, you are making a claim under the CRA.
Any warranty offered is in addition to your statutory rights. It could be great, it could be a waste of ink and trees. Either way though, it hands control back to them to potentially go "sorry mate, it's not covered." The CRA is legally binding, they have no choice in the matter. The fault is deemed to have been present at time of purchase unless they can prove otherwise and I wish them luck with that.
Back on track, it's not done enough miles for it to develop a fault like that in your ownership. Back to the dealer. Neither petrol or modern diesels should smoke. I bought a 3 year old van with 35k on clock in Jan(mentioned above), 2.0 180bhp, and it doesn't smoke or even smell of much when running for a diesel, so I'd expect it to be squeaky clean on emissions.
if its left idling or in traffic then when you pull away its chucking out smoke.
Classic symptom of valve guide seals leaking or turbo seals, as above. When the engine's idling, you have high vacuum in the inlet manifold and that will suck oil through worn seals. Then, when you accelerate, that oil gets sucked into the combustion chamber and burned so you get a burst of smoke for a few seconds. If it's valve guide seals, it won't be fatal for the engine. If it's related to the turbo, possibly catastrophic.
Do. Not. Mention. Warranties. How many more times does this need to be said?
Just giving my opinion. I'd start by looking at the warranty and if the t and c say its covered then get it fixed under that as that should be the path of least resistance, if not covered by warranty then consider the consumer rights approach.
I wouldn't try and claim under warranty if after reading the t and c it looked like it wouldn't be covered. I'd go straight in on the consumer rights stuff, or more likely I'd just sell the car on to we buy any car and move on with life.
I'll add piston rings to valve guides and turbo seals. Keep an accurate record of oil use, Renton.
https://carmechanica.com.au/tech-blog/vag-2-0l-tfsi-oil-consumption
Definitely sounds like turbo but there's other things that could cause it and diagnosis is more or less the parts cannon. Since you've got hte option of taking it back (albeit possibly with a fight) it's the only sensible option.
(if for whatever reason you kept it, turbo is an easy fix generally- remove turbo, replace chra, refit. Access etc can make it hard. But it'd be absolutely essential if it was the turbo, because that will <always> get worse and then go in a second from "leaky oil" to "my turbo shaft has broken in half while spinning at 100000rpm". You can get metal in the engine, you can need an entire new turbo not just the core (because the shell gets battered), and cleanup is a big hassle too even if it's all saveable)
If it's an EA888 engine it'll have the inadequate oil control rings on the pistons, reject it now while you can if that's the case.
It is the EA888 engine but the 3b that’s slightly different to the one in the golf gti etc.
Someone has mentioned it could be a faulty PCV causing the issue so was going to order one of those to see if it made a difference.
You might as well contact the seller and see what they say first.
Personally I would email, and try and get a reply via email to maintain a written record, you may well get a phone call back to discuss and keep everything vague if the dealer is Del Boy.
Oil burning due to rings is not uncommon and often "within spec" for those engines (which is ridiculous), I would try and do some diagnosis before firing the parts cannon, yes it could be PCV, turbo seals, valve stem seals etc etc. How buried is the PCV?
I had a 1.8 tsi that was rebuilt under warranty to address excessive oil use due to piston rings. It never produced any noticeable smoke, even when it was guzzling oil.
Yes, it'll make a difference, they'll say you broke it then you'll be SOOL with actually getting it fixed.Someone has mentioned it could be a faulty PCV causing the issue so was going to order one of those to see if it made a difference.
I had the PCV replaced on my 1.8 TFSI recently. That was causing oil to leak (externally) from somewhere near the turbo rather than burning oil. The garage said it was a fairly common fault and a simple repair. Either way, get the garage to sort it - that's the peace of mind you (should) get from buying from them.
Your either returning it or your not. You can't start meddling with it then return it.
Ive sent the car supermarket an email to the only email I could find on their site. Will give them a few days to respond and then follow up with a telephone call
It definitely smells of burning oil from behind and when you reverse with the windows down, however its only when its been idling stationary for a while or stuck in traffic do I see a cloud of smoke from the exhaust. ITs dropped from max to min on the dipstick twice in 1400 miles.
I paid the £500 deposit on credit card so may also have some cover there if the garage doesn't play ball.
Ive sent the car supermarket an email to the only email I could find on their site. Will give them a few days to respond and then follow up with a telephone call
Coming up next: "You've exacerbated the problem by continuing to drive it for a few days whilst knowing there was an issue with it."
Ring them tomorrow. First thing.
I have my wifes car to use as shes off her feet after just having a hip replacement
Max to min on *most* cars is about a litre.ITs dropped from max to min on the dipstick twice in 1400 miles.
I'm with cougar. You are within statutory rights periods where it's assumed it was faulty when they sold it unless proven otherwise (by them), rather than other way round. And they can't sell you faulty goods unless they make you aware. We did all this on the van with the undersized timing chain - get it back in for them to fix replace or refund in line with your statutory right. Remind them of this as often as you have to.
Warranty doesn't enter into it and muddies the very simple issue of your rights.
If it's an EA888 engine it'll have the inadequate oil control rings on the pistons, reject it now while you can if that's the case.
It doesn't really seem to fit the symptoms here... Oil burning sure but rings give you constant oil burning, not this "obvious smoke off idle"
The exhaust tips are clean as a whislte too with no obvious signs of burning oil.
One thing I have thought is that the car is fitted with a GPF and the cooling fans are on a lot which suggests it is trying to regen all the time. Could the oil being pulled through from the turbo into the GPF?
It is weird that it only happens when its been idling for a while and when stuck in traffic pootling about. The first ime you get to accelrate properly and get the turbo cutting in there is a big plume of grey/blue smoke
And it smells oily from the exhaust too
Just a thought (may already have been mentioned) are you sure the smoke/smell is t from a GPF regen?
(Doesn't account for oil use but VWs do use oil.)