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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58955577
So obviously a debate to be had about the ethics of getting sacked for not getting a vaccine, for not getting the bloody vaccine in the first place, for the state making it compulsory for employees etc etc.
But the bigger debate - how the holy hell is the college football coach the highest paid member of staff in the entire college and earning $3.1m a year?
As a nation I find the USA utterly and completely baffling.
sports results boost the profile of the school increasing astronomically high fee based attendance and alumni donations, I guess.
College football is MASSIVE in the USA.
Some colleges average 100,000+ at their matches - it's a huge moneyspinner so competition for the best coaches is keen.
I think I read somewhere that the highest paid public sector employee in pretty much every state in the USA is a college football coach.
I'm surprised it's only 3m, the college game is bigger than the NFL for attendances and interest.
I don't think it is a money spinner, in fact I seem to recall that student fees subsidise the football programme.
He was on one of the lower salaries lol
College football is MASSIVE in the USA.
That was my point. How do you get your system into such a state that the football teams of your colleges can be that important to both the educational institutions, the current students and the perspective students and parents. Over and above, I don't know, education.
And for a sport that's so ****ing boring aswell.
I guess now we know why China is winning.
How do you get your system into such a state that the football teams of your colleges can be that important to both the educational institutions, the current students and the perspective students and parents.
Because, for a great many students who aren’t that gifted academically, being successful on the pitch is their only real hope for the future - trying to get a well paid job in some backwater town in Illinois or Arkansas is probably limited to asking one question; “would you like fries with that?”
Because, for a great many students who aren’t that gifted academically, being successful on the pitch is their only real hope for the future – trying to get a well paid job in some backwater town in Illinois or Arkansas is probably limited to asking one question; “would you like fries with that?”
Washington State has 31,000 students. Success on the football field as a route out of poverty is an infinitesimally small niche activity. It does not justify that level of prioritising over education.
Success on the football field is an infinitesimally small niche activity. It does not justify that level of prioritising over education.
It depends on how many tickets/merchandise etc you can sell.
It really doesnt seem like our uni sports where you can bimble up and watch a game if you feel like it but basically professional sports whilst pretending not to be.
Its pretty much as if the University of Manchester owned Man city/united but didnt have to worry about the high wages.
It depends on how many tickets/merchandise etc you can sell.
I obviously didn't make my point well....CZ was making the point that prioritizing it could be justified because it was a route to a good payday for those without other options. My point was that for a college of 31000 students the number for whom active participation in college football is a route to a lucrative career is bits of one percentage of the college intake.
As a nation I find the USA utterly and completely baffling.
Same thing probably being said about us on USAtrackworld. We laughed at George Bush and Trump, yet we have Boris and mini roundabouts.
Not to mention the military flyover and national anthem before every college football game. America is a very strange place.
<p lang="en" dir="ltr">A U-2 Dragon Lady just made a rare low-altitude flyover to kick off the #NationalChampionship ! pic.twitter.com/us0kQye5AD</p>— Airshow News (@NewsAirshow) January 8, 2019
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
My point was that for a college of 31000 students the number for whom active participation in college football is a route to a lucrative career is bits of one percentage of the college intake.
True I think their argument is flawed but your original one misses the point as well it is, in theory, a source of revenue to support even the non fake football players and also acts as a way to attract people to the uni. Here is it good pubs/riding and there it is a good team to support.
I say in theory since as far as I can tell its rather controversial how much it adds.
well, you’ve missed the point then! Yes obviously very very few will be picked up by the NFL/NBA etc. But given that college sports are massive in the US, it allows (amongst all sports) 175k students each year access to an education that they might not otherwise be able to afford.My point was that for a college of 31000 students the number for whom active participation in college football is a route to a lucrative career is bits of one percentage of the college intake.
well, you’ve missed the point then! Yes obviously very very few will be picked up by the NFL/NBA etc. But given that college sports are massive in the US, it gives (amongst all sports) 175k students each year access to an education that they might not otherwise be able to afford.
Nope - that still does not make sense (to me)!
Ok - give kids who are good a kicking a ball or running or whatever free/cheap education. On the surface that kind of, sort of, makes sense. It's not an altruistic move surely, because if it was it would be given to those with education promise not kick a football promise. It has to be done because it is good for the college because (I assume) US college pride and marketing is very wrapped up in the quality of their college football team.
But it's not really free education surely - that's 175000 places that are being paid for (along with your man's $3.2M) by the mahoosive loans the next poorest (who are not good at kicking a football) have to take out to go to college in the states. So does it really make education more accessible when looked at in the broadest terms?
The University of Texas programme, football rules in Texas according to Friday Night Lights, transfers approx. $10 million per annum to other activities, Universities are like the RFU before the sport went professional - or the GAA for that matter. Coaches leave jobs in the NFL for better paid college jobs. The University of Michigan stadium is the biggest in the Western Hemisphere apparently.
How about this for crowd energy. Big stand but stadium capacity only 65,000 ish
i went to a game at louisiana state. the stadium is bigger than manchester united’ sad it was packed. all those people paid for tickets, bought snacks or souvenirs. the campus was packed with tailgating parties for the whole day.
it’s a money spinner.
louisiana doesn’t have an NFL team so the college team is the highest level of sports team in the state, i believe. rather than being the main focus of the college it is an add on that makes money.
it is more than just students that go to watch the games. i was wearing an LSU t-shirt in canada in the summer and a kid approached me and asked if i was a football fan. i looked confused, he pointed out my t-shirt. college sports are very popular with a wide audience.
the sports facilities in the high schools are impressive, too. though probably not in poor places. america favours the rich, of course.
But given that college sports are massive in the US, it allows (amongst all sports) 175k students each year access to an education that they might not otherwise be able to afford.
But it increases the costs for the non football/sports students, it pushes education further out of affordability for the poor unless they are lucky enough to be good at a sport the university sees fit to subsidise.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/ncaa-finances-subsidies/2142443/
Ok – give kids who are good a kicking a ball or running or whatever free/cheap education. On the surface that kind of, sort of, makes sense. It’s not an altruistic move surely, because if it was it would be given to those with education promise not kick a football promise.
Only if being good with a ball was the only door in. There are all sorts of funds and initiatives, commercial and charitable supporting all sorts of needs or talents. Football just happens to be self-financing through ticket sale.
Seemingly theres someone who had their education paid their for by a Silversmithing bursary named after my dad.
Football just happens to be self-financing through ticket sale
Could you supply some evidence to back up that statement please.
Could you supply some evidence to back up that statement please.
I'll re-phrase it. Football has an audience and an income and with it a benefit to an institution beyond the funding of an individual's eduction. While a posthumous silversmithing scholarship might fund an education nobody buys tickets to watch the recipient smith silver.
The sports that are subsidised are crazy, not just NFL. I know at least two kids who got waterskiing scholarships to US universities. Possibly Louisiana.
Google for "does college football make money" and you get apparently conflicting articles (because it's the internet).
a giant multibillion dollar commercial entertainment platform functioning under the guise of a tax-exempt educational pursuit
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-college-sports-make-money/
these figures tell only part of the story. Most casual observers might be shocked to learn that despite the huge sums of cash seen here, only a handful of schools actually make money through college athletics.
That’s athletics though, as in track and field, rather than all sports, isn’t it? Michael Johnson was lamenting on the olympics coverage after the USAs dismal performance, that funding when money is tight during pandemics, goes into the money making sports programs (football and basketball) that get on telly every week rather than athletics, which is every 4 years at the olympics.
Was there not a thread on here recently about someone's kid looking into a real football aka soccer scholarship over in the States?
If you had the chance and the talent, you would, wouldn't you? (Says the bloke whose kid is studying music, and has used local charity support to fund trips and software to help support their musical development)
And the students get payed nowt! I mean, scholarships are grand and all but they should be getting paid properly - see the doc on 'points shaving' in college basketball.
I mean, scholarships are grand
Tens, even hundreds, of grand…
Still peanuts compared to the revenue they are generating though (and what the coaches get paid, seemingly).
US College sports are massive, especially the feeder sports like basketball, football and so on, it's a huge market and the college element is not just a money maker, it's the gateway to the leagues, don't think of these sports as being part of the college funding, they're self sustaining and a successful team brings in more people and more money.
As for the coach not having the vaccine, it's a personal choice, but unfortunately for a few, in the US they are banning those who do not have the vaccine from public events, which in effect means they can't do their job, and as they are on very tight contracts, it's not easy to fix, check out what's going on with Kyrie Irving and the money he could lose from this!
The collage football system has evolved over time - its far from perfect. In fact its a total mess. But that doesn't detract from the level of entertainment. Its compelling stuff if you follow the game and you have to factor in that most cities in the US don't have an NFL team, many don't have professional sports teams of any sort - but all will have a collage team of some level so for many collage sports is the only live sport available to watch.
As for the coach not having the vaccine, it’s a personal choice, but unfortunately for a few, in the US they are banning those who do not have the vaccine from public events, which in effect means they can’t do their job
I'm kinda on the fence with this. I don't really think people should be sacked for not taking it, but I really don't understand why you wouldn't just take it.
But the bigger debate – how the holy hell is the college football coach the highest paid member of staff in the entire college and earning $3.1m a year?
I did a postgrad at Georgia, 92k spectators to a home game.
I suppose on a fundamental level, Americans are very business minded, or money obsessed greed monsters, depending on your point of view. Money is never far from their thoughts and if College Football is a popular as people say, then they wouldn't think twice about monetising it as much as they can. The fact that it's supposedly part of higher education would not seem odd to them. So big attendances, equals tv right, tickets sales and the better you are, the more you make. Paying someone millions of dollars to try to win more is just business.
My SIL is a Gymnastics coach. She worked in the UK for years, training older kids into Elite level athletes. In the UK it's a after-school pastime for kids, she'd earn about the same as someone in a Supermarket. She lives in the US, even though most of her kids are from wealthy families, they're all competing for College Scholarships, she earns $100k a year.
That’s athletics though, as in track and field, rather than all sports, isn’t it?
No I think when Americans talk Athletics - they mean sports. If they mean track n field, they say track n field?
I have a US colleague who tried to explain the college football (and other sports) stuff. Its all a bit crazy - but its the US so what do you expect. Football, soccer, perhaps basketball will be subsiding other sports - say swimming or tennis. It would of course be more logical to issue scholarships for academic ability rather that sporting prowess (there are of course scholarships for academic strength, musical ability etc too). However as well as the direct benefits of sports revenue, sporting success encourages the Almuni to give more to the Uni which equates to better facilities, more scholarships etc. Alumni donations are huge in the US compared to here (both in volume and in size). Then the more prominent the university on the sports field the more people want to go to the uni, and so they more paying students there are too - just the same as the UK universities its about bums on seats! Then the states/cities want people to stay and work (pay taxes, vote for them) so they are keen that people feel good about their local college too, and so some will be subsidising some of this.
It might seem odd that people would pick their uni based on sporting success but actually there's probably tenuous stuff like that happens here too. Big Man U fan - more likely to study in Manchester, not really a football fan but trying to decide between Liverpool and Wolverhampton - one seems more associated with positive vibes! Your whole family has gone to Oxford and you've adamantly followed them in the boat race - where's top of your mind when you think of going to uni.
I spent a couple of very happy years at Washington State University and sad to see this happen. I'd be surprised if US college sports (at a big D1 "school") make a loss in the same way you'd balance your home expenditure. Think more Amazon.
As for the coach not having the vaccine, it’s a personal choice, but unfortunately for a few, in the US they are banning those who do not have the vaccine from public events, which in effect means they can’t do their job
I’m kinda on the fence with this. I don’t really think people should be sacked for not taking it, but I really don’t understand why you wouldn’t just take it.
It does make me feel uncomfortable that people are getting sacked, but that is the consequence of their decision. I think that I have a right to be protected from risk, in a global pandemic that means I don't want myself or my family to be around unvaccinated people. If they have a geniune reason not to be fair enough I can accept that as a small risk as long as the vast majority are. But for those who claim it is a personal choice, then it should also be my personal choice to not be put at risk by another's actions. Net getting vaccinated is on par with smoking in a public building or breaking the speed limit on residential streets.
As above, for the Div 1 colleges (Washington State etc) the football program is a massive income stream.
That's why the coach is the uni's highest paid employee.
Most of the football students are barely literate but the college will tutor them 1:1 to keep them on track academically.
Where the sports programs do work is further down the college levels - during my post-doc at Ohio State in the 90s approximately half the grad students had won a sports scholarship (cross-country running x2, swimming, baseball etc), This meant they graduated without debt and could afford to do a masters, PhD etc.
I was actually based in Wooster, Ohio. The College of Wooster (A private college based in the same town, and Div 3 for football) even offered bagpipe scholarships!