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Well, that's a more unsettled future globally.
I agree that a lot of his supporters know what they are voting for, they are doing it for reasons they see as important.
I do think, like brexshit, there are a raft of unintended consequences.
Let's see what the financial markets react like.
The worst bit today will be seeing his smug orange face and overblown sense of importance being paraded for all to see. He doesn't do statesmanlike.
Let's see what the financial markets react like
Now we wait to see how long until his backers invoke the 25th and install Vance.
Better Vance than Trump.
financial markets will go up because, tax cuts for the rich. That’s what they do.
Dunno, the markets aren't generally big fans of uncertainty. And Trump is anything but reliable.
I’ll leave you to your celebrations over this triumph of democracy.
There's nothing to celebrate other than the fact voters will always vote against people who take them for granted.
BTW I note Harris didn't even have the grace to speak to all the supporters who turned out for her supposed victory party. Just about says it all really.
One of the biggest stories is the shift in influence away from the MSM to the independent outlets.
Turns out that when the Globalist media machine goes from “Biden is perfectly coherent and Kamala is a crazy nut job” to “All hail our new democratically elected queen Kamala (Biden, Biden who?)” in about five minutes- people get red pilled into realising that maybe, just maybe, the news isn’t what it used to be!
Podcasts won Trump this election.
If he does half the things he's promised, he'll trash the world's economy and probably start WW3. I'm really baffled by anyone thinking that this is a good idea.
It's just depressing in so many ways.
If he does half the things he’s promised, he’ll trash the world’s economy and probably start WW3.
He doesn't care about the world's economy, only America's, that's why he was elected.
He'll leave the wars to everyone but America (apart from Israel of course). Ukraine is now Europe's problem, so I suppose we'll see just how committed Europe and the UK are now.
@teenrat is there scope for a democratic state such as California to seek independence?
Yes, well, sort of. I believe all the other states have to approve its cessation. They can't unilaterally say "we're off, bye!" They're also royally buggered right now with many, many internal problems. Some of their own making, some historical (my life is terrible, I'm going to head west and become a bum) and some from former little tech start-ups that are no longer little in any way and crave low tax, low regulation, low moral environments such as Texas.
But he’ll trash that too.
Define 'trash'. See that Tim Shipman tweet I posted above - https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1854055061925560448 . In America a healthy economy doesn't mean higher nationwide GDP growth, it means working and middle class people having more money in their pockets. At the end of 4 years of Biden the perception was that they had less even thoughg the economy supposedly prospered, and they voted accordingly.
If he does half the things he’s promised, he’ll trash the world’s economy and probably start WW3
I think the issue there would be the use of 'world' in that reasoning; belief in American exceptionalism results in not really caring about anything else, other than (often perceived) threats, or that the rest of the inferior world can fall into line and follow the greatest nation on Earth.
It was utterly predictable, and completely expected, if you go along with the idea that a country as divided, and at odds with itself over so many basic issues, would ever vote for a woman of colour who represents the established order.
Trump has tapped into the psyche of people who don't have much interest in the nuances of politics, but a belief in the core issues they feel affect them. Those issues are (in my opinion) often erroneous, based on political and media spin or manipulation, and can be dismissed with only a cursory search online - but that's academic if the alternative (and Biden in particular during his term) aren't up to the job. We suffered with it in the UK from 2015 onwards.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même... possibly.
Mudslinging aside, if Trump wants to leave and not be labelled as a disaster those exit pollings seem to suggest that the priority needs to be the economic prosperity of working and middle class people (US definitions). How's he going to do that then?
BTW I note Harris didn’t even have the grace to speak to all the supporters who turned out for her supposed victory party. Just about says it all really.
It says they didn’t show the footage.
Better Vance than Trump.
Are you sure about that?
He doesn’t care about the world’s economy, only America’s, that’s why he was elected
you mean the economy that's been outperforming every other g7 nation massively in the last three years? The economy doesn't need fixing, society does.
it means working and middle class people having more money in their pockets
And how did that work out for them last time? He will only benefit the rich, the poor will get poorer. Much poorer. But they will be happy because they owned the libs. Maybe they'll be able to get jobs as concentration camp guards.
7 results to go (from the front page of BBC News website)...what does that actually mean? That there are just 7 additions to the existing numbers (266 Trump and 219 Harris) or are there enough additions in those 7 things that could allow Harris to leapfrog Trump?
Europe is going the same way. Far right govts in Italy, Austria, Hungary. Far right parties on the brink of power in places like France and advancing rapidly in the UK, Germany and others. We’re just a few years behind the US, but the one thing we can guarantee is that liberal centrist parties across Europe will not learn the lessons in the same way that the Democrats have failed to.
That last bit I can agree with. The "non-right" parties have to stop offering a less extreme version of the right and start offering a proper vision of an alternative, fairer society.
you mean the economy that’s been outperforming every other g7 nation massively in the last three years?
See comment above. People don't care about GDP if they don't see the benefits of it. The GDP growth over the Biden administration has primarily benefitted the rich asset holding classes while working and middle class people have seen their cost of living massively impacted by inflation and stagnant wages. That's why Trump's primary economic promises were focused on the cost of living rather than GDP. He's even suggested taking control of interest rates off the Fed. Obviously no one knows if he'll deliver what he's promised but the Democrats were only offering more of the same.
How many of the states are actually counted? How much is the current picture due to exit polls? I am still harbouring the hope (in desperation) that exit polls might not reflect the women's vote, they may not want to reveal they voted for Harris to anyone.
I'm struggling to articulate how riled I am this morning. Xxxx trump, but more importantly xxxx every one of the people who voted for him...
Especially Musk..
That’s why Trump’s primary economic promises were focused on the cost of living rather than GDP
Trump promised sweeping tax cuts.... For the very richest
And tariffs that will send inflation through the roof
I think crisshairs point about podcasts is valid, you can become an 'expert' on something by listening to a 3hr rogan podcast , it's empowering even if your new knowledge absolute nonsense
7 results to go (from the front page of BBC News website)…what does that actually mean? That there are just 7 additions to the existing numbers (266 Trump and 219 Harris) or are there enough additions in those 7 things that could allow Harris to leapfrog Trump?
My understanding is with the current results the way they are those remaining states (probably just enough for Harris to win) at currently heavily in favour of Trump in the votes counted thus far.
Are you sure about that?
Yeah. Vance will do the same extreme right stuff Trump will do, but without the general chaos and risk of provoking China into war along with it. At least that's my "hope", such as it is.
7 results to go (from the front page of BBC News website)…what does that actually mean? That there are just 7 additions to the existing numbers (266 Trump and 219 Harris) or are there enough additions in those 7 things that could allow Harris to leapfrog Trump?
Is the right question.
Folk need to understand just how complicated US Elections are - in fact Farage talking to Ferrari on LBC pretty much said the same thing, to quote "they have a terrible system here..., they can't run elections that Americans can trust".
4:06
I don't thinks it's based on exit polls. He has 266 declared wins so far with 270 needed to win. I think it's in the bag because he won most of the swing states
my OH was explaining to me yesterday that their FPTP system is worse than ours, so when a states seats are counted, the winner takes all the seats.
back in 2000 Apparently Al Gore had more votes than Bush, but Bush won some states that had a lot of seats, so that over ruled it.
Clutching at straws perhaps, but wouldnt the whole global outlook over the past 20 years have been different, if we hadnt had Bush?
ill be interested to see how many votes this boils down to (though it looks pretty clear cut actually)
My theory is its all just media noise. Trump wasnt off the front page for his previous tenure. Constant gaffs, criticism etc. But bad news is still news. Hardly a peep with Biden. Nothing of significance either way, other than stumbling down some steps a few times.
He didn't start any wars last time and he didn't crash any economies either.
The doom mongering propaganda has already started with ironically, nothing to back it up.
No wars is a good thing, right?
I don't have the numbers but apparently he is winning the popular vote as well.
No wars is a good thing, right?
That very much depends on how you deal with the wars that have already started.
Yeah, seem to be 7 results left to declare and between them all there are 53 'things'...Kamala needs 51 'things' to hit the 270. I suspect it would be a phenomenal result if this all fell into place and he was pipped at the post, but it isn't looking likely.
Does anyone know where I can watch The View on British TV/online? It’s going to be a cracker…
If Trump gives the Taliban $40billon of USA war machinery he’ll be doing twice as well as Biden did ?
Biden wasn’t some benign old granddad who escaped controversy- he was the globalists baby-sniffing war monger puppet of choice.
Apologies if this has already been covered else where, but seeing as Trump looks the likely winner, is he allowed to stand again in 2028? I know they limit their presidents to two consecutive terms but I don't know if it's two terms in a lifetime or not.
Yeah. Vance will do the same extreme right stuff Trump will do, but without the general chaos
Personally I think Vance is far more dangerous than Trump, project 25 and the implications that go with it would be a scary prospect for the world. I can excuse Trump for actions based on lack of intelligence, Vance on the other hand has a brain and a plan to go with it.
Wouldn't be surprised if Vance pushes Trump out within 6-12 months.
is he allowed to stand again in 2028?
No(t yet)
Not unless he repeals the 22nd Amendment. But then I guess Obama would also be available.
I don't see him surviving the term, tbh, so it's not a relevant question.
If Trump gives the Taliban $40billon of USA war machinery he’ll be doing twice as well as Biden did ?
Given Trump boasted that the deal he had done with the Taliban couldnt be undone by Biden and was right I think he deserves the credit for handing them the kit.
Its only once it became apparent what a dumb idea it was that it miraculously didnt have anything to do with him.
I know they limit their presidents to two consecutive terms but I don’t know if it’s two terms in a lifetime or not.
Its two terms full stop and is a constitutional amendment. So not impossible to change but hard.
seeing as Trump looks the likely winner, is he allowed to stand again in 2028? I know they limit their presidents to two consecutive terms but I don’t know if it’s two terms in a lifetime or not.
As numerous right wing election winners have demonstrated already, those two term limits can be changed.
He has a 1 in 3 chance of being dead by then.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Vance pushes Trump out within 6-12 months.
Just like believing tory leaders are slaves to the headbangers is a myth, I am not so sure there is a "Machiavellian" team of geniuses behind Trump ready to take over, I think it is him and everyone just holding onto his coat tails hoping to luck out from the chaos, in fact I suspect if they were capable of that, they would be the last to be appointed to team Trump.
Personally I think Vance is far more dangerous than Trump, project 25 and the implications that go with it would be a scary prospect for the world. I can excuse Trump for actions based on lack of intelligence, Vance on the other hand has a brain and a plan to go with it.
I reckon they'll get to the same point, just with more chaos and much higher risk of China making a move on Taiwan, or Ukraine collapsing.
my OH was explaining to me yesterday that their FPTP system is worse than ours, so when a states seats are counted, the winner takes all the seats.
Electoral College votes. Except in Nebraska (I think) where they split them (Harris 1, Trump 4)
PA still hasn't declared, and in theory Harris could still take it, but it's pretty unlikely. Same with Georgia as far as I can make out.
I know they limit their presidents to two consecutive terms but I don’t know if it’s two terms in a lifetime or not
2 terms total, unless they get made president by order of succession.
Unless you have such a hold on the entire country that you can change the constitution.
As numerous right wing election winners have demonstrated already, those two term limits can be changed.
Complicated: they'd need to change the Constitution, and that's not an easy task. Of course, while they were at it they could remove the "born in the USA" bit, which would allow someone like Musk to run... so perhaps it's not 100% impossible.
Unless you have such a hold on the entire country that you can change the constitution.
Or ignore it.
No he can't unless he changes the constitution....
Wouldn’t be surprised if Vance pushes Trump out within 6-12 months.
My bet is 24 months, based on succession rules - that would give him 10 years to implement the Republic of Gilead (seems to be the goal of P2025)
There is a fair chance that he will have both Senate and Congress as well as the presidency. And he has complete control of the supreme court. He can do what the hell he wants.
He didn’t start any wars last time and he didn’t crash any economies either.
The doom mongering propaganda has already started with ironically, nothing to back it up.
No wars is a good thing, right?
He didn't need to, he managed to kill more Americans at home than has been lost fighting in all the wars since Vietnam. Just remember how the man responded to a crisis he didn't know anything about and didn't really care about. That's the man who's back in charge.
They don't need to change the constitution, they only need to change the (supreme court's) interpretation of the constitution.
What is a "natural-born" citizen anyway? Wasn't Musk born naturally?
I don’t have the numbers but apparently he is winning the popular vote as well.
BBC page has the vote split at the top - currently 47.3% to 51.1% in favour of the stuffed sausage.
He didn’t need to, he managed to kill more Americans at home than has been lost fighting in all the wars since Vietnam. Just remember how the man responded to a crisis he didn’t know anything about and didn’t really care about. That’s the man who’s back in charge.
I was given quite a bit of grief on here when I didn't quite manage to wish Trump well when he got a spot of covid himself and spent some time in hospital. Given what we now know about what his administration did for the covid response in the US and the potential death toll globally his election now is forecast to instigate......was I wrong? For the greater good, would a dead Trump in 2020 not have been a good thing? Hindsight and all that.
What is a “natural-born” citizen anyway? Wasn’t Musk born naturally?
Born in America.
I was referring to term limits, but the interpretation of law must be backed up by similar rulings in international law.
International law has no bearing on US law or its constitution.
Wasn’t Musk born naturally?
Seems to have been assembled, badly
What is a “natural-born” citizen anyway? Wasn’t Musk born naturally?
I reckon he's an evil cyborg...so no..
What is a “natural-born” citizen anyway? Wasn’t Musk born naturally?
Born in America.
Or having at least one parent who is a citizen. Also, being born in the U.S. is usually enough to have citizenship, even if your parents aren't citizens and aren't there legally, but if your parents are diplomats and not subject to U.S. legal jurisdiction, I think you can't claim birthright citizenship.
Whatever the case, Musk is ineligible without a constitutional amendment.
Whatever the case, Musk is ineligible without a constitutional amendment.
Only according to the rule book.
currently 47.3% to 51.1% in favour of the stuffed sausage
Well, that really does surprise me. I thought he would scrape in by winning the swing states, I'm shocked he's winning the popular vote.
On Musk... if he keeps supporting Trump as a non-politican, he has so much to gain. If he were a possible successor, Trump would turn on him. Not being eligible to be president works in his favour.
Trump has won. That battle is lost. Let trump try to carry out his simple answers to complex problems agenda. Let's see how that work out.
It's likely to have a terrible effect on Ukraine, Taiwan and Gazas futures. Israel will also be given free reign to do exactly what they want.
But...
Although the UK will be impacted by this Trump win, interest rates, growth etc it's not all bad. Far from it.
Would I sooner a magic switch and we have a Tory government here and Harris as President in the US? No, I wouldn't! It's far from ideal but unlike '16, there is hope at a national UK level.
At a macro level all bets are off but at a micro level, little will change in our lives. That's all that matters.
I'm disappointed but not very surprised.
In 2016 the Democrats chose a generally unpopular female candidate to run against Trump. They seem to have done the same this year. Kamala Harris was a very unpopular Vice-president.
In 2016 Hilary Clinton referred to Trump voters as "Deplorables", Biden referred to them as "Garbage" this year. Neither are likely to change people's minds, but they are very likely to motivate the people that they're insulting to get out and vote to teach them a lesson.
The Democrats have been spectacularly arrogant this year. However you cut it, it's been obvious for a few years that Biden is no longer up to it, and the Democrats have been hiding it - avoiding press scrutiny etc, only doing something about it when it was both unavoidable and far too late. At that point they chose a candidate who must have colluded in the cover up, and they wonder why they may not be trusted on key issues.
This is against a background of the Democrats in general being pretty rubbish at politics. They've allowed themselves to get boxed in on judicial nominations, something that is going to take decades to un-pick. They also, in Joe Biden, had a candidate who was reluctant to talk about abortion rights and women's health, when it was a key issue.
They've also been unlucky, inflation, the Ukraine war, and the Middle East. However IMV they've not helped themselves with their triangulation and prevarication on Gaza.
Against that background I can understand why people turned out to vote for Donald Trump. I don't think it helps to label all the people who did as stupid racists either.
Israel will also be given free reign to do exactly what they want.
So... No change then?
Oh well at least the Ukraine war will be over in January!!
bails
Full Member
Israel will also be given free reign to do exactly what they want.So… No change then?
Yes, I believe there was pressure put on Israel by Biden, we are now likely to see what it's removal will mean.
Hang on - why isn't Trump questioning the outcome of this election?
See comment above. People don’t care about GDP if they don’t see the benefits of it. The GDP growth over the Biden administration has primarily benefitted the rich asset holding classes while working and middle class people have seen their cost of living massively impacted by inflation and stagnant wages. That’s why Trump’s primary economic promises were focused on the cost of living rather than GDP. He’s even suggested taking control of interest rates off the Fed. Obviously no one knows if he’ll deliver what he’s promised but the Democrats were only offering more of the same.
^^This^^
GDP that doesn't filter through to the plebs pockets is fundamentally meaningless to most voters, look at our own COL issues and focus on inflation... Then look at who Trumps biggest cheerleader has been in recent weeks... Ahem.
Especially Musk..
^^Indeed^^ champion of the working classes, definitely the sort of person you want to have the ear of the President if worker pay and conditions are your priority?
Of course this is tied up with various very American Myths about Work and Wealth and how it is "Earned" in their economy...
To me that is a fundamental dichotomy, voters who can't spot that deserve everything they get TBH. Unfortunately lots of people don't suffer from "TDS" and will also have to pay the price...
Trump was wise to their tactics this time around- hence why they had to try and assassinate him.
The huge irony is that every time they tried to Lawfare him out of existence, they made him stronger. After all, if that’s how they behave towards a former president- what chance would the plebs have when the democrat gestapo chose to ‘show me the man and I’ll show you the crime’ against them….
The lack of awareness was shocking. In comparison- and being a people person, Trump inherently knew there was more mileage in sparing Hilary than locking her up and throwing away the key.
He’s a sportsman who loves the game but respects the rules. Whereas the left just want to win at all costs (hence Trump derangement syndrome).
He’s a sportsman who loves the game but respects the rules. Whereas the left just want to win at all costs
Sorry what now?
Why are there so many thick trolling Putin bot ****s on here nowadays?
The only thing Trump respects is a bigger bully than him.