Can anyone think of another country where this would happen?
In a strange way this kind of anarchy makes me quite proud to be British.
The just eat hire bikes scheme collapsed in Edinburgh - it was always going to. Useless scheme for residents, too many bikes stolen and dumped, too much work getting them in the right places. It made a loss over 3 yrears
BTW - similar schemes in the netherlands collapsed partly because they all went into canals
Its the business model thats the problem IMO
At least these dock, the last lot weren't dock bikes, obvious what was going to happen.
Nextbike in Cardiff just announced they were removing the service from the city, due to unprecedented levels of vandalism of the bikes. They also said it was the first time in over 100 cities that they had to do such a thing. If anything, it's reassuring to hear of other cities where it failed - at least I don't live in a uniquely crappy city!
The edinburgh scheme was docks - the neds soon learned how to break them and get free bikes
There was a scheme in Cambridge a decade ago which ended after too many bikes ended up in the Cam.
The more recent Ofo scheme failed when the company ran out of cash but for a long time there was a bike in a ditch on the inaccessible side of a very prickly hedge on my dog walking route.
It failed in Sheffield too. Though I think some docking ones have returned.
Dunno, there were huge piles of abandoned hire bikes in many Chinese cities.
And this is why we can’t have nice things
The feral yoot of Salford and Wythenshawe
With the mobikes if I got the bus into town you could look down on the back yards of Gorton, which were full of them. The scrotes would nick one for the ride home from town then just throw it on the pile with the rest
its not just here - its a worldwide issue
works in London just fine.
The idea does not work with the culture. It is bound to fail.
works in London just fine.
Half decent robust bikes with equally robust locking docks make it work in London.
The random parking of hire bikes on pavements with no docks is just asking for failure imo
Oh yeah, forgot about those. They were a regular sight in the city waterways for a while a few years ago. Could always spot a few from the vantage point of a city centre block of flats. Thing is, they were made of cast iron, unsuitable for riding never mind lifting up to throw over a bridge. I think they all accumulate in the lowest parts of the city cos you wouldn’t want to ride one uphill. Or on an even gradient for that matter.
I think the general public just HATE bikes. Especially ones that are obtusely slow and heavy with a complicated and spiteful charging scheme. Kind of want to throw one in a canal myself now. If I had a fork-lift.
London is massively subsidised is it not? to a far greater degree than others and is not without issues.
I thought everyone got carried around London in Sedan Chairs?
Yeah I think the new Manchester bikes are similar to the London scheme, much more normal heavy duty bikes and locking stations.
I live in Manchester and would dearly love this to work. But I just can’t escape a feeling deep down that it will end in tears again.
I’m not sure what you can really do about the vandalism issue. I don’t think pleading with everyone not to throw them in the canal will really do it.
Is there a reason it works in london? I know they’re docked bikes and the mobikes here weren’t but can that really the sole difference?
Hope it works anyway as I’ll probably commute on them.
Derbys scheme got binned after the feral youths off Harvey Road used the scheme bikes to catch and rob other cyclists....
YoBikes in Bristol has pulled out too. Replaced with electric scooters. At times it’s blooming chaos! They are geofenced so at least there are limits to where the get dumped. Sadly though where I live I’m surrounded with student halls which is fenced off from the scooters. Benefit being we don’t have tonnes of students blasting about on these things but it means I can’t use one to get into town.
I think the scooters have better tech so harder to pinch. Also hard to throw into the docks. And probably a bit more credible for the yoof and less likely to be vandalised.
Who keeps signing off on the schemes? I'd maybe see London a bit differently but once a regional city has ditched them why does the next place think 'oh that won't happen here' hugely wasteful cost of scrap metal all in all.
I ride 15 miles in and out of Cardiff each day, I like to play spot the one abandoned furthest from the city
Monorails on the other hand, who's up for a monorail??
Nextbike in glasgow seems to do well, we've even got ebikes these days. Never heard of any getting dumped in the clyde, nor have I seen any abandoned. Guess it must have happened an odd time mind, but the scheme seems to work well here.
The bike/scooter hire schemes seem pointless to me. Provide good quality cycling infrastructure and I'm pretty sure most would be cyclists would happily provide their own wheels.
slowoldman
Full Member
The bike/scooter hire schemes seem pointless to me. Provide good quality cycling infrastructure and I’m pretty sure most would be cyclists would happily provide their own wheels.
kinda the point though, they aren't just for cyclists, they are part of the travel infrastructure to be used by cyclists and non cyclists.
Thing is, they were made of cast iron,
I am surprise no one has recycled them yet ...
Yeah I think the new Manchester bikes are similar to the London scheme, much more normal heavy duty bikes and locking stations
They're not locking docks, they're simply parking bays. The idea is that if you arrive at (say) Piccadilly and the docks are full, you don't need to ride away, find the next nearest dock etc and potentially miss your train, you can still just park it, locked to itself. The docking points are there to try to tidy things up a bit rather than have them left lying around wherever.
The way the kids of harpurhey could wheelie those mobikes was something to behold
What I find interesting is that we’ve managed to create a society where this happens. My theory is it’s the inevitable result of decades of neoliberalism subconsciously brutalising the population so we no longer value ourselves or others as much as we should. It’s no coincidence that countries that have followed this path in the west have the worst social problems.
Bike hire schemes are a perfect microcosm of all the difficulties we face.
Southampton Bikes failed but seeing a lot of scooters being used.
Pedalling is hard work and bikes have lots of good bits to rob/break
Scooters are electric twist and go. As long as the battery is in a locked strong box there isn't too much to wreck and they are all chipped so can be found and easily chucked in the back of the collection van rather than struggling to load up bikes
Yep. We've had two bike schemes fail in Bristol now but the scooters seem very popular. There's a chap that goes round on an e-cargo bike scooping them up and moving them around
WorldClassAccident
Free Member
Southampton Bikes failed but seeing a lot of scooters being used.Pedalling is hard work and bikes have lots of good bits to rob/break
Scooters are electric twist and go. As long as the battery is in a locked strong box there isn’t too much to wreck and they are all chipped so can be found and easily chucked in the back of the collection van rather than struggling to load up bikes
tbh I reckon it's probably a bit simple than that, the bikes in glagsow look more heavy duty to the ones in the OP's link. I'd suggest that's probably more the route to go down, make the bikes less attractive to the thieves, even for a joyride.
The Glasgow bikes are big chunks of metal, alright for a small jaunt, but not really for horsing it about the shop.
Milton Keynes has a similar bike scheme to London. I rarely see the bikes being used, and apparently loads of them ended up vandalised.
We now have an electric scooter scheme and it seems to be popular, I see them all over the place when I'm walking and cycling. I haven't had a go yet, but it seems like it's working well. I like it when I see young people two-up on them - they look like they're having fun.
How do so many kids access them? You're supposed to have a driving licence, but they've clearly got some way around it.
You can use a provisional licence on the Bristol ones.
Few people seem to understand that using one while drunk or riding dangerously carries the same penalty as driving a car. Did see a copper having a word with a middle aged lady who thought that giving her 10 (or thereabouts) year old a backie was a good plan.
The bike/scooter hire schemes seem pointless to me. Provide good quality cycling infrastructure and I’m pretty sure most would be cyclists would happily provide their own wheels.
I’ve used the Glasgow ones a few times (not recently though). If I’m out for the day / night I’m not going to take my own bike up on the train and then chain it up outside a pub and drag it back on the last train home. I’ll happily jump on a next bike though to get around, so for that use they are ideal.
Glasgow ones do seem to work well. Guessing everyone has seen these kind of pictures before but it's definitely not just a UK problem.
I think the key is locking dock and heavy undesirable bike, the Santander ones seem to work well enough.
I think the key is locking dock and heavy undesirable bike, the Santander ones seem to work well enough.
Yes the Santanders work well but we also have various other schemes, ebikes i think, which just get dumped all over the place. On the way to the tube yesterday there was one dumped / parked blocking the whole pavement, I was quite tempted to sling it into the road. Why look after something when the owners make no effort about safe storage and not inconveniencing other people as long as they make a few quid.
Yeah the MK scooter hire works well. I’ve used them once, but would use more if I lived more central.
I used the bikes a few times to see if it would work for me on my commute to the train station. The bikes we’re e-bikes, but on two occasions the battery didn’t work. The bike just became a single speed lump of incredibly heavy metal. We have some very short but steep hills (leading to bridges going over dual carriageways), with my laptop and rucksack it was tough going. For the general public it wouldn’t be much fun using the bike when the battery’s not working. I went back to using my own bike and leaving it at the station.
Birmingham has had Beryl bikes for the past 6 months or so, I've not heard of any major issues with them or seen any in the canal - they just need to expand the areas that they serve as I'm still about a mile or so from the nearest dock bay.
The bike/scooter hire schemes seem pointless to me. Provide good quality cycling infrastructure and I’m pretty sure most would be cyclists would happily provide their own wheels.
For work I visit various sites across London a couple of days most weeks, the convenience of using tube, bus or boris bike is great, tying myself to just one bike to travel around wouldn't work half as well.
London is massively subsidised is it not?
Not sure about the bike scheme, but yes public transport (& some council tax) is so cheap in London, a combination of subsidies and sheer numbers...
In a strange way this kind of anarchy makes me quite proud to be British.
Can you explain a bit more please.
In the USA the scooter and bike schemes are managed by locals (students mainly) who were given responsibility for a couple of scooters / bikes each. They scoop them up each evening and charge them, then return them to their reserved spot on the street ready for the morning rush.
Having said that, in San Jose there were as many scooters in the river as on the roads but the scheme still worked. The newer scooters are heavy and require two people to move if locked, and they set off alarms if you try to carry them off without paying.
London is massively subsidised is it not? to a far greater degree than others and is not without issues.
The scheme is operated by tfl (transport for London) as part of London's public transport but is also 'sponsored' by someone. Originally Barclays gave £50 million I think for a couple of years then Santander took over. Slightly out of touch with London these days so don't know if that is ongoing.
Also, there were certainly huge problems with bikes being stolen, destroyed, chucked in the Thames etc when I was using it in the early days. I suspect that a certain stubbornness to keep it going combined with huge financial resources kept it alive.
As a fit person and keen recreational cyclist; bikes are fun, bikes are fast transport in an urban environment.
Until said bikes need to live outside, exposed to the elements and the scum class, and need no maintainence, and be adjustable to a number of different sized users.
Then they are less fun, and an E-scooter becomes far more attractive.
If I lived somewhere where both bike and escooter hire was available, I'd pick the scooter every time.
Also, there were certainly huge problems with bikes being stolen, destroyed, chucked in the Thames etc when I was using it in the early days. I suspect that a certain stubbornness to keep it going combined with huge financial resources kept it alive.
TfL's own info under FoI said that, as of 2017, a total of 32 bikes had been stolen and not returned to a docking station.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0707-1718
There's a fair bit of "rollover" of parts and a few reports of people being mugged for them (or the bike being swiped while under hire - the hirer turns their back for a second and someone just rides off on it). But they're generally very secure - you can't release the bike from the dock without payment.
The Voi E-scooter hire in Bristol seems much more popular than the YoBikes ever did - I guess because they involve zero exertion and people are lazy. I'm a fan, shame that the more popular option is a non-active form of transport, but they must be replacing at least some car journeys.
There's a lot ofgrumbling about them causing chaos but can't say I've witnessed much of it when cycling in and out of the city centre daily, although they do clog up the bike lanes a bit.
Apparently if you rent one in the evening the app makes you do some reaction tests to try and prevent absolutely leathered people renting them.
you can’t release the bike from the dock without payment.
I think that's the case here an Manchester with the new bikes and scooters, it also asked for a copy of my driving license and a bank card before it would register me as a user, perhaps that will cut down of the vandalism? Who knows. The new Manchester system is also run by Beryl, so if it's doing well elsewhere, that's encouraging
TfL’s own info under FoI said that, as of 2017, a total of 32 bikes had been stolen and not returned to a docking station.
However, as of 2020 6,500 bikes had been decommissioned due to being 'lost, stolen or damaged beyond repair'. I suspect the 32 figure is artificially low due to specific terminology used. I certainly remember regular stories in the local press about problems when the scheme first started when I was living in London.
To be fair I'm not that bothered. Was just pointing out that the London scheme hasn't been all smooth sailing either, but was able to continue one way or another largely, I think, due to its size.
And the ( I read) 140 million subsidy
Half decent robust bikes with equally robust locking docks make it work in London.
I've seen a number of them being kicked free from the stands for all day fee free riding. So it 'works' but there are 'workarounds'.
The Voi system does seem to be settling better than others, but having registered for it recently it wasn't quick to get going when I wanted it.
Also, in Cambridge it works as if you leave a bike at the station it WILL get stolen, so you are better off not using your own.
Schemes seem to vary by city. Cardiff originally had very little vandalism then it escalated massively in the last year. Maybe they bore the brunt of a group’s frustration. The evidence from several schemes has been smallish numbers of repeat offenders cause the majority of damage.
Glasgow had extensive outreach in low income areas which ensured that people had ways of using them without owning a fancy smartphone and also engaged young teens in riding projects. It’s that sort of work which protects schemes and creates a more widespread feeling of ownership. There’s usually an upsurge in vandalism during school holidays and the only way of mitigating that is good outreach during term time to head it off.
TfL had enough money to put a much more robust scheme in place, has a big redistribution operation so plenty of eyes and ears on the ground and the means to pursue every last bike.
All schemes need money over and above fare revenue to ensure they don’t fall into vicious cycles of misuse. However, bikeshare extends the reach of public transport and links up journeys keeping people from using cars - which is why big European cities and London subsidise them.
Newer bikes have really good tracking and ebikes can be geofenced like scooters. If the scheme uses the best tech and has plenty of people both doing on street redistribution and maintenance as well as social outreach it has a chance.
How do so many kids access them? You’re supposed to have a driving licence, but they’ve clearly got some way around it.
"You can use a provisional licence on the Bristol ones."
I don't mean 16 year olds, I'm talking about 10-15 year olds, I see them riding hire e-scooters all the time.
Are they using a fake driving license, or a copy, or do they have some way of bypassing the system?
Well, that post seemed legit, but oddly the services would solve the problems of starting an account at a bike hire place…
Sweden has (in Stockholm at least) a tonne of scooter hire companies, all licensed for different zones within the main city. There were also bike hire companies, but these are effectively shut down since the scooters arrived. As someone has said, why cycle when you can just move?
Scooters do get abused, but I think it is largely mitigated because he hire is linked to your account. Mind you, they litter the foot way at common drop-off places and are a menace when people ride them against traffic, with headphones on, whilst looking at 5k or phones.
In a strange way this kind of anarchy makes me quite proud to be British.
Can you explain a bit more please.
Ad company J C Decaux reportedly noted that Britain was the most expensive place in Europe to keep a bus shelter. Bike share vandalism is just an extension of our national propensity to smash bus shelters. And generally self harm. But there are other threads about that.
Cycled across London with a few colleagues yesterday, them on Boris bikes.
Coming from Bristol with it's traffic jam, scooter hire, bodged cycle lane carnage, I was amazed at London's emptiness! The parks having rotten row etc. to ride on helps of course but it was startlingly easy to get about.
The key to a civilised city seems to be draconian car charges and dedicated cycle lanes. Who knew!
