You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I want to upgrade my home cinema arrangements to 4k.
I know I need a new TV and Blu-Ray player but will I need to update the AV receiver also?
Depends on the model / age. My 5 year old Yamaha does 4k passthrough no problem.
Its a 5 year old Sony.
peteimpreza - Member
Its a 5 year old Sony.
Do you have the model number?
On the TV front there's a new Sony XF900 model coming out around March which looks pretty interesting as it is FALD (not b8ll8cks edge-lit), and there is also a new Samsung Q9 coming out this year which is also FALD.
I didn't mention the Sony A8F which is also coming out as it looks to me that OLEDs are suffering from image retention and screen burn issues.
Just saying as I have been looking into it to replace my Plasma.
"Do you have the model number? "
At home , yes , will post up later.
OLEDs are suffering from image retention and screen burn issues.Just saying as I have been looking into it to replace my Plasma.
Plasma's are of course prone to image retention and burn in. I never had any problem with mine though, because I didn't leave static stuff on the screen for long periods. I imagine the same principle applies to OLED screens.
Plasma's are of course prone to image retention and burn in. I never had any problem with mine though, because I didn't leave static stuff on the screen for long periods. I imagine the same principle applies to OLED screens.
some people are seeing the channel logo burning.
I don't leave my plasma on either but might be using the new TV for monitoring purposes as well, so burn in is more of an issue then.
Why do you need a new Blu-ray player?
Most TVs will upscale to 4k.
We bought a 4k TV last year & replaced our DVD player with a Blu-Ray.
We considered getting a 4k Blu-ray player, but they were mostly still up around £600 or so - and the TV was a lot less than that, so it seemed like a lot to stump up.
Depending on how fussy you are about ultimate picture quality, the TV does such a good job of upscaling the Blu-ray films that I am not sure how much benefit a 4k Blu-ray player would be.
I would get the TV & see how you get on with your current Blu-ray player before stumping up for a 4k Blu-ray player.
Content for 4k is growing, but there still isn't a ton of films out there & bear in mind that the discs are about £25 per film at the moment.
I baulk at paying £12-14 for a Blu-Ray, let along £25 for the 4k version.
If you're getting 4K, it seems like you might want to get an HDR ready model...The issue there being the ongoing format war:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/5/14180456/hdr-formats-hdr10-dolby-vision-hlg-advanced-ces-2017
(this is from Jan 17 but it's still ongoing)
will I need to update the AV receiver also?
You'll need, at a minimum, HMDI 2.0 ports. My Yamaha is of a similar vintage (probably a little older) and is only HDMI 1.4.
Most TVs will upscale to 4k.
All TVs built in the last decade will upscale to their native resolution. That just means the picture fits the screen, you cannot magically add detail that isn't there. It'll upscale VHS, why bother with a Blu-Ray player?
All TVs built in the last decade will upscale to their native resolution. That just means the picture fits the screen, you cannot magically add detail that isn't there.
This. That said, I have a 4K TV and no 4K bluray player, but I do have 4K content on iPlayer/Netflix,
All TVs built in the last decade will upscale to their native resolution. That just means the picture fits the screen, you cannot magically add detail that isn't there.
not this - one of the main differences between TVs (often with similair panels) is how well they do this upscaling, not insert lots of undesirable artificts and effectively add (interpolate) detail that wasn't there in the first place (edge enhancement, etc) and not make a mess of that. Also processing speed, black-frame insertion processing, etc.
The new Sony processors do object remapping, banding reduction (seen that in JL where an A1 improved a youtube video massively).
They all do it. I didn't say they all do it well.
A top of the range Sony is going to do a better job than a Tesco Value panel, of course. But you'll pay a premium for that which is almost certainly going to be more than getting the right tool for the job in the first place rather than a clever workaround.
TurnerGuy - Member
one of the main differences between TVs (often with similair panels) is how well they do this upscaling, not insert lots of undesirable artificts and effectively add (interpolate) detail that wasn't there in the first place (edge enhancement, etc) and not make a mess of that. Also processing speed, black-frame insertion processing, etc.The new Sony processors do object remapping, banding reduction (seen that in JL where an A1 improved a youtube video massively).
I'm well aware of the types of image processing that can be done (I have a PhD in computer vision), but there is a limit to what the processing can guess at, and it's in no way the same as having the information there in the first place.
and it's in no way the same as having the information there in the first place.
but saying that they all do it dismisses it as non-important whereas there are significant difference in some cases, like I've seen LGs stutter like you wouldn't believe and I've always found Samsungs pretty poor at it as well.
I have an Oppo Bluray player because when I got it it was significantly better at upscaling than many other players, but over time the cheap players became a lot better and rival my Oppo, although the specs haven't changed so someone with an old player could think it is not worth upgrading to a newer version.
It’s a Sony STR-DH820
What I can never understand is the tv adverts that show 4K pictures being really sharp.
My own googling says new AV receiver required
If anyone does want a decent 4K DVD player, and I know that the market is limited, then drop me a line, I have a mate who bought a job lot of brand new Samsung M9000’s that I/ he can do for £150 plus postage if needed.
I want to make it clear that I won’t earn a penny from them & if the mods think this is advertising then please feel free to pull the post ❓
Cougar - ModeratorMost TVs will upscale to 4k.
All TVs built in the last decade will upscale to their native resolution. That just means the picture fits the screen, you cannot magically add detail that isn't there. It'll upscale VHS, why bother with a Blu-Ray player?
I knew that comment would gain a fair share of critics....
Your comment about VHS is bollocks, because the TV would have to upscale from a much lower resolution starting point. You would end up with much worse picture quality as there is more guesswork going on.
You can see this on my TV when watching a normal dvd.
But...Blu-ray has a lot more information there to start with so the TV can do a better job of upscaling without crappy smears and artifacts.
Virtually nothing we watch on our TV is native 4k, but it still looks bloody sharp and great quality.
That's what I was getting at. Maybe the OP isn't obsessed about ultimate quality and it might be worth him trying his standard Blu-ray player before spanking out for a new one and then feeling obliged to feed it films (of which there is a limited range) at £25 a pop....
I'm not baiting anyone here.
I'm guessing the replacement of 4K systems is already being speculated about/ designed.
Anyone have an idea of what sort of res that might be, or will resolution stabilise as other ways to enhance image quality cone to the fore?
Poopscoop - Member
I'm not baiting anyone here.I'm guessing the replacement of 4K systems is already being speculated about/ designed.
Anyone have an idea of what sort of res that might be, or will resolution stabilise as other ways to enhance image quality cone to the fore?
Like I said above there is still a bit of a battle going on over HDR formats. Res wise, 8K is not that far off in terms of panel resolution (a few sets have been released) but I'm not aware of any content yet.
Sony were showing an 8K system, but in reality this is mostly playing to geeky males who loves specifications - the market must be really small.
A factor to consider for a new set is the new Dolby Vision and HDR standards, Sony and LG have said they are not going to bother with the new HDR 10+ standard (something about it being interpolated metadata and so not worth it...), and Sony have been making a mess of a recent Dolby Vision update.
Many aspects of the industry are still running to keep up with 4K, let alone it's replacement.
4K projectors are still rare, HDR is still being argued about, consumer understanding of HDR is very low. Streaming services are using different codecs, so chips supporting YouTube 4K are only just being released.
It's a mess. It's being driven by the fact that 4K LCD panels have been relatively cheap to make, so uptake has been quite quick. The internals are a long way behind though.
If I were upgrading to 4K right now, I would get the OPPO Blu-ray player (disclaimer I freelance for OPPO), send the audio to my receiver and send the 4K picture directly to my display bypassing the receiver.
I would then use a fairly cheap 4K-capable streaming device for iPlayer/YouTube/Netflix/etc and expect to replace it reasonably often.
Upgrade your eyes also, especially if you don't sit close to the TV 😛
Aside from that, good luck finding content 😉
Joking aside though, modern TVs are now being aimed at 4K and that's where the quality technology lies so in theory the best panels will be 4K ones. Bit like the best ones used to be 3D ones, even if you didn't use 3D, just because the newer technology is in them.
As for upscaling, I don't know what 4K TVs are like for it, but it's always been my experience the player box is way better at upscaling as it can upscale from the source data. In which case even if not using 4K material, a decent upscaling 4K Blu Ray player could be useful.
Then again, discs are a bit dead really. Stream away. Get an Amazon Fire TV 4K box maybe (not the stick).
TurnerGuy - Member
Sony were showing an 8K system, but in reality this is mostly playing to geeky males who loves specifications - the market must be really small.
Well more than that, it's 4x more pixels than 4K so I'm not sure how they can cram enough data onto a disc to utilise it without dropping the bitrate stupidly low which would make it pointless. Especially if it's also 10 bit colour rather than 8.
Sony were showing an 8K system, but in reality this is mostly playing to geeky males who loves specifications - the market must be really small.
It's the same pointless arms race / pissing contest that digital camera manufacturers have been locked in to for years.
it's always been my experience the player box is way better at upscaling as it can upscale from the source data.
The "source data" is the same at both ends, that's how digital works. What you say my be true (or may just be anecdotal) but it's dependent on the quality of the image processor.
My 4k TV upscales HD really well, SD looks a bit ropey but the panel size doesn't help that either. HDR makes a huge difference IMO, I only got my 4k TV last month and I'm already disappointed when something I want to watch on Netflix is only UHD and not Dolby Vision (and The Grand Tour on Prime looks amazing in HDR).
send the audio to my receiver and send the 4K picture directly to my display bypassing the receiver.
I bet that will result in some bad lipsync issues - it has everytime I've wired something up like that. Unless you have audio delay available.
If the TV has a digital output it seems to be more satisfactory to take a feed straight from the TV.
I'm using a 10 year old 42" Panasonic Plasma, it's only HD ready and we nearly only ever watch SD on it. Really can't see what the fuss is about when I see peoples 4K TVs. Although a slimmer Bezel would be nice
You can't tell the difference between SD and 4K?
Have you had an eye test lately?
TurnerGuy - Member
If the TV has a digital output it seems to be more satisfactory to take a feed straight from the TV
Not all TV will pass through full HD audio via the ARC from the TV. At least not when from another TV input.
As I discovered with my Samsung. A known "feature". Fine from built in apps or receiver, but not hooking up a Blu Ray player direct to TV and using ARC to amp (same with other gadgets).
Check if the TV will pass it through properly.
Lip sync you can usually fix in the amp.
Hooking everything into the amp allows it to control the power on all the devices if they support it.
He said it was HD-ready so that's potentially 768x1366. With HD source material, a 42" screen and 3m viewing distance, I bet lots couldn't tell the difference.Cougar - ModeratorYou can't tell the difference between SD and 4K?
Have you had an eye test lately?
He said it was HD-ready so that's potentially 768x1366.
Yeah but no.
we nearly only ever watch SD on it