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We are looking to update our Wills later this year now youngest is 18.
Eldest is 22, working and living with his partner an hour from us. Youngest is 18, and all being well going to university in September on a 4 year Masters course.
If/when we both die, then our estate will be split equally between the two kids. The point we are pondering is what happens if we both die while youngest is still at uni. She will need a "base" to call home out of term time, but there's no point keeping the current home running for her to rattle around in 13 weeks a year. Similarly, seems daft for her to buy a small (half our assets will mean it will be small!) place of her own for those limited periods. We don't want her to be "homeless" out of term time, but we can't just expect her brother to be able to take her in during the holidays.
We're obviously going to be having a proper chat with the two of them before we make a decision, but just wondering if anyone has had similar thoughts or any experience to share.
For most universities, there are plenty of students who stay all year round in the Uni city. This is far more common after the first year (where most students move into private rented accommodation that is rented for 12 months). Hopefully, this won't be an issue, but if you were to both die, I suspect your child would be able to remain in their Uni city (if they wanted) with no issues.
Perhaps update the will to say that the property cannot be sold until she has left full time education?
I suspect that if you both meet your maker, where your youngest gets to spend their time is possibly going to be the least of their worries & it can take a while to sort probate & then sell your home. And that's before considering how likely that both of you pass away...
Edit: would there be a family friend or relatives that they could stay with if needs be?
This is why you should have Wills writen after consultation from a professional, and updated after another consultation 'as-and when' your circumstances change...
...rather then 'winging it' or relying on 'boiler plate' template wills.
Yes it will cost a few quid, but things can get really messy, really fast if not.
If it's not a complex estate, then it's really just a case of having the correct clauses in, according to your wishes... buy you can't really do that, as a layman, unless you happen to be a solicitor who specialises in wills and probate, in which case you are not a layman.
We're obviously getting the will done by solicitors, just wondering if anyone had made come up with a solution to the (unlikely) problem rather than leave the kids floundering while also dealing with probate and all that shit.
We're obviously getting the will done by solicitors, just wondering if anyone had made come up with a solution to the (unlikely) problem rather than leave the kids floundering while also dealing with probate and all that shit.
If they were a child/dependent, there might be automatic protections she be provided for, during probate, but if over 18, then I'd hazard not... it really needs a family law/probate solicitor to look at it and advise.
Perhaps update the will to say that the property cannot be sold until she has left full time education?
This sounds like an utterly awful idea. The sort of thing done with the best intentions but just ends up needlessly restricting the options for the kids and trying up huge amounts of money needlessly in a house that's going to sit empty for almost all the next three or four years.
Perhaps update the will to say that the property cannot be sold until she has left full time education?
This sounds like an utterly awful idea. The sort of thing done with the best intentions but just ends up needlessly restricting the options for the kids and trying up huge amounts of money needlessly in a house that's going to sit empty for almost all the next three or four years.
That was our concern.
That was our concern.
True. You did clearly put it in your OP. I was just vehemently agreeing with you 🙂
The point we are pondering is what happens if we both die while youngest is still at uni.
I'd be less concerned about "home base" and more about the possible impact on lectures, exams etc if she has to deal with your funeral(s), selling the estate etc while in the midst of studying.
Is there any way you can put in place a trusted executor to do that sort of thing?
I'm vaguely aware that my (divorced) parents had some sort of arrangement for that eventuality while we were at uni (I graduated about the time my sister started, so it would have been in place for about 8-9 years) but I can't remember any of the details, nor do I want to go asking!
The point we are pondering is what happens if we both die while youngest is still at uni.
I'd be less concerned about "home base" and more about the possible impact on lectures, exams etc if she has to deal with your funeral(s), selling the estate etc while in the midst of studying.
Is there any way you can put in place a trusted executor to do that sort of thing?
I'm vaguely aware that my (divorced) parents had some sort of arrangement for that eventuality while we were at uni (I graduated about the time my sister started, so it would have been in place for about 8-9 years) but I can't remember any of the details, nor do I want to go asking!
That had occurred to me - MrsMC and her brothers spent a long time getting probate sorted for her parents even with a will in place, and while she is very much "We did it, so anyone can" I think it will be worth seeing if the kids would prefer us to name an executor to do it for them.
My sister and I are named as executors on our Uncle's will, but it also provides for his solicitor to act as executor in the case we are unwilling or unable to do it. So you could presumably do similar so the option is there.
You'll probably spend £1k complicating your wills.
I'd chuck that grand into a LISA for each of them (ok, so £2k) and top it up as you can afford it.
Instant cash for them, or, in the much more likely event that you last a few years, a start on the property ladder @25% interest
Do you have life/illness cover? Maybe update the beneficiaries too. Again, it's cash to extend uni rental in the short term
IANAFA
Not taking your username as fact, if you did die in the time window concerned, are you likely to have savings? In my understanding they would normally be accessible before probate, so you could include the solicitor as an executor and say that they should rent somewhere for the younger child. Then write a new will once both children are established on their own. The solicitor writing the will will know how to get the details right.
One thing to beware of when looking for advice on wills, are you in Scotland? As the rules are different.
...rather then 'winging it' or relying on 'boiler plate' template wills.
see im coming at it the other way im afraid.
are you planning on both dying in the next 5 years? how old are you? Do you feel you should take seperate transport everywhere?have you been watching too much designate survivor?
Surely just leave them their halves. keep it simple, quick and efficient to wrap up and they can discusss it between themselves.
if she (or he) decides either of them want the house then they need to work that out between themselves, if neither of them want it, sell it and rent for a few years.
ive no idea how old you are, but it seems youre just on the bring of getting them both out of the house. I hope youve got a few more years left to enjoy that stage of your life!
You are over thinking it.
If you both die why would you think your youngest would need / want a base to come home to? Both children are adults so leave it to them and don’t make what would be a stressful (and ridiculously unlikely) event even worse?
If you both die why would you think your youngest would need / want a base to come home to? Both children are adults so leave it to them and don’t make what would be a stressful (and ridiculously unlikely) event even worse?
Because the youngest one at uni will have a lot of personal possessions to find somewhere to keep, and potentially need to find somewhere to live out of term time, and if we can all have a chat to figure out possible solutions in the next few months then if the (ridiculously unlikely) thing were to happen it might just be one less thing for them to be stressing over.
While we may well be overthinking it, I'm a bit concerned for any young adults out there whose parents may be underthinking it. Or just thinking "**** 'em, we'll be dead anyway"
Fair points MCTD but I still agree with the others, mainly because your kids will be able to make the decision, if needed, armed with much more info and experience than you have now ( assuming you don't both drop dead next week)
Think of those pre-holiday high stress weeks where you not only try to solve all last week's issues, and this week's, but also try to predict what's going to go wrong and then pre-empt it. That's what you're trying to do here.
You may take a decision now based on the wean's current views.... he hates his uni town.... (S)he has a girlfriend at uni so can't imagine spending holidays alone at your pad... She has a boyfriend in your village and can't stand .....
Etc
All those situations could change and get reversed. I which case any firm decisions you make based on them could get hideously out of date
Because the youngest one at uni will have a lot of personal possessions to find somewhere to keep, and potentially need to find somewhere to live out of term time,
Realistically there will be plenty of time whilst your estate gets sorted out to arrange somewhere and get removals done etc. Without knowing your circumstances she'll probably be inheriting enough to buy a flat in her uni town and stay there all year! She might equally blow a chunk on a huge holiday and putting stuff into storage - you could put it in trust for her until you trust her to do something "wise' with it - but if I was 19 and both my parents suddenly and unexpectedly died, perhaps the wise thing would be to take a year out and enjoy life rather than try to be too normal.
and if we can all have a chat to figure out possible solutions in the next few months then if the (ridiculously unlikely) thing were to happen it might just be one less thing for them to be stressing over.
I think you need to be careful. Mrs P's parents are overthinkers. Everything is organised and has been for the last 30 years. They explained all this to her not long after she was 18. She thought they were trying to hint at one or other being very ill. They've both survived - but still like to remind her where all the files are kept whenever someone they know is organising a funeral, or anything else reminds them of their mortality. She finds it a bit unsettling. It has also caused some angst at times - when my wife got married but her sister was still at home (similar scenario to you have) they discussed changing the will to give sister right to remain there and my wife was pissed off that they thought she would kick her wee sister onto the street [perhaps they thought the evil husband would!]. Then recently, wee sister (who is now long since moved out and in her 40s) got her nose out of joint because the will was changed to give more to the grandchildren (which she doesn't have any of). I wonder if sharing any of that was actually useful before the time comes - its not like anyone is planning around it. I don't know what my parents' wills say, and can't really see how it would help me if I did, even less so if they had told me 30 years ago.
While we may well be overthinking it, I'm a bit concerned for any young adults out there whose parents may be underthinking it. Or just thinking "**** 'em, we'll be dead anyway"
"Her" answer today before she starts uni, the answer at end of first year, after 2nd year etc might all be rather different. You are talking about rather extreme situation - both dying near simultaneously, so car/plane crash, perhaps terrorism, murder-suicide or massive house fire (in which case where will she live!) etc. Do you really think if you appoint a solicitor as executor she'll just bash on after one of those scenarios? If one partner survives, or indeed one of you is diagnosed with terminal illness then there's another sensible opportunity to review the will, because it will be clearer the scenario you are planning for.
wondering if anyone has had similar thoughts or any experience to share.
You're way overthinking it. They are adults, they can sort out their own lives in the (very unlikely) event that you both kick the bucket in any such specific and detailed time frame. As others have said, it would take months to years anyway before the property would be sold. People get married, have children, change jobs in that time frame. If your children are reasonably decent and competent humans then they'll work out what to do, and if they aren't, you've got bigger things to worry about than your will.
Having a will at all is better than many seem to manage though, so have a pat on the back about that!
I think it will be worth seeing if the kids would prefer us to name an executor to do it for them.
Absolutely not. Your beneficiaries can always engage a solicitor (of their choice) to act on their behalf when the time comes. If you name a lawyer as executor they will get in the way and cost a huge amount of money (or at best charge a release fee to resign from their duties). They may (probably) have retired before you die and be replaced by a random stranger from the firm etc...or might have moved to the far end of the country....
Your kids aren't underage and needing someone else to take charge. They are all over 18, fully adult and able to work things out for themselves (which means working out how to ask for help, of course 18 year olds aren't all fully formed and experienced in all things).
The kids can be executors...
They can always appoint a family law/wills & probate solicitor of thier choosing to handle the administration.
That's what I did when I dealt with it... Solicitor just takes thier fee off the estate come distribution time.
My ex wife's parents died when she was mid teens, so have some experience of the potential fallout and would echo the thoughts of inheritance going into a trust up to a certain age as being more important than where your child might live.
My ex wife's parents died when she was mid teens, so have some experience of the potential fallout and would echo the thoughts of inheritance going into a trust up to a certain age as being more important than where your child might live.
Trusts tend to have admin fees and other complications though, don't they?
So unless the estate is very valuable and has a lot of tax liabilities etc.. May not be the best route.
I had to hold onto some money for my niece as the will said she's not to have her share until 21, so once the estate was distributed I just held that cash in an executor bank account so as not to interfere with my own tax situation.
I imagine a solicitor could do something similar and hold the money in an escrow account or similar until the money can be distrubuted?
If they're over 18 they'll sort it out.
It's amazing how quickly you grow up and deal with things when you have no choice.
And if your daughter and her brother are the sole beneficiaries then sit them down and talk to them. Just because you are dead there's no pressure on them to sell the house immediately. They could split any cash and sell the house at a time to suit both of them.
As others have said don't over complicate it as anything put in place could have unintended consequences.
As for trusts - you know your kids. If you feel they'd waste the money at 18 and piss it up the wall they're just as likely to do that at 21!
Another thing to consider is that houses have ongoing maintenance and utilities to think about.
Depending on the value of the house, assuming it's mortgage free.. It might be best for it to be liquidated (sold) fast and the money split between the two.
If the estate isn't worth millions then just basic things like ongoing council tax and garden maintenance can add up over time. And of course you have to set the heating appropriately if it's over winter to prevent damp and a whole load more costs which if neglected would really hurt the sale price of the house.