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My daughter has her heart set on Warwick following open days and visits. She has predicted grades that are well above the requirements and has been waiting for an offer.
Today her UCAS has sent her a 'Rejected - did not provide information'
After investigating, appears that the college has supplied Warwick an incorrect email (not actually, it's just an old email address she no longer uses) and the emails have been going there - mid Jan and end Jan, with a deadline mid Feb to send a portfolio.
She should have obviously been checking the old email too, but in farness there's been nothing useful in there for years.
Anyone in admissions got any advice what our options should be? Are they likely to listen?
Phone the admissions office.
Ring the admissions team at Warwick, and they'll sort it. Just an IT blip.
[I'm in an admissions role at a competitor uni, so this is an unbiased opinion ;)]
(I'm in an admissions role at a competitor uni, so unbiased..)
have spoken to admissions today and they are passing to course leaders..... so you think they're likely to still consider?
She's in absolute pieces right now, at the same time working on pulling the portfolio together for them so if they say OK she can whack it to them immediately. Tempted to send it anyway.....
If she is qualified to get on the degree, the admissions team will do everything to make that happen. Trust me.
I don’t work in admissions, but I am a Associate Prof at a competitor and what Reggie says.
The college passed on an old email address?
Isn’t the email supplied by the student in the their online form?
It would be handy to know in case my college can get it wrong
But I expect this can be sorted
Yes and no, now I'm home and have the full story.
From the early days of the internet the family used to have aol emails, long since changed to gmail but for some reason that's the email that college has for her - and she also has a college email.
All three are supposed to be synced to her apple devices, but the aol mails haven't been getting through for some time now. So she didn't get the emails requesting the portfolio, but if she'd logged in to the aol address then she would (and would also have realised sync wasn't working). She's also missed an offer from Kent (but that came through as an offer to UCAS as well and she doesn't need to make decisions yet anyway), and she also missed the Kent email offering her chance to reserve accomodation, so if we can't resolve Warwick then her second choice she's now way down the list for the good halls in Y1!
I'm out of the game now but used to work in student recruitment and we'd see things like this fairly often, they were fixed every single time except when there just wasn't a seat to put another bum on, which did happen. But she's a student they wanted, so she's still a student they want.
thanks, that's our hope.
Actually, hope is that they haven't as yet put any bums on seats, they'll have received portfolios from candidates 2 weeks ago, and be now into the sifting and interviewing stage. Just getting into the game doesn't seem like any great hassle for the Univ, it was how draconian they'd be about 'rules is rules'
I'm Associate Prof at a different uni, currently a programme leader, and just finished a four-year stint as admissions tutor. With either my programme leader or (old) admissions tutor hat on, if she's applied with predicted grades well above the requirements, I'd have no hesitation in saying "yes" to processing her application - we want good students! Academics usually have (and use) discretion when it comes to things like this, more so than the office staff who tend to stick to the rules, so it's good that things have been passed to the course leader.
**goes off and googles @dral **
I'll walk over Chancellors Court and pop by next time I get a round of exercise induced arrhythmia 😛
[sorry, thread distraction]
I hope she gets in this year of her heart is absolutely set on it, (sounds like a good chance from all the experts above) but would deferring a year then applying with actual grades and some cash from a job be such an awful option?
it's certainly an option. Thanks all.
She will get in - if she has the grades they will take her. Another that works at another Uni not in Admissions - plenty of time - just explain - also contact the admissions tutor as well as central admissions.
Deferring would be a poor decision for Sept 22, as the rules around student loan rates, costs, duration are likely to be materially worse.
grades are just predictions currently, but pretty confident with them.
Do the Depts have their own admissions tutors then?
Do the Depts have their own admissions tutors then?
Yes, it’s normally an academic (someone like dral or myself) who teaches on the course who knows what is needed from a student to undertake the degree programme. They (and their team) are the ones that make the decision re grades/offers etc. The admin team then feed that all back to UCAS.
is that likely to be the same person as the 'course leader' that she's been told the admissions team will pass her info to? Just another name for the same thing
Probably not. The course leader (we call them programme leaders) oversees the academic content of the degree, whereas the admissions tutor is usually a separate job overseeing admissions onto that course (rather than dealing with course content). Both will more than likely be academics.
Most applications are dealt with by the admissions staff in the office, as they are relatively straightforward. One of the academic admissions tutor's jobs is to deal with non-standard applications, usually in discussion with the programme/course leader. That's probably why your daughter's case has been passed to the course leader (who will discuss it with the admissions tutor).
So speaking to either the course leader (you can usually find out who this is online) or the admissions tutor (a bit harder to find out who that is) would be a good idea.
As you'll gather from dral's response, Universities are not very efficient places, with many of these roles done by over stretched academics! Bear in mind some colleagues are currently on strike, so you may not get an immediate response.
**goes off and googles @dral **
I’ll walk over Chancellors Court and pop by next time I get a round of exercise induced arrhythmia 😛
[sorry, thread distraction]
Hello from across Chancellors Court!
I love this place and
My daughter has her heart set on Warwick following open days and visits
I would have been unsure as well until we visited. Lovely place that I would have easily missed
and as academics, you wouldn't be pissed off by a direct approach; to my mind showing you really want to be on the course despite cocking up on the admin? I guess at this point she's rejected, can't get much worse than that!
She has her portfolio ready (Meeja and Creative type!) and of course has the original email address where it should have gone by 15/2 so we're going to send it through to that email and cc to the Course Director with a covering note of apologies and explanation.
To be honest given you only started down this route yesterday and the strikes, I would just wait until the end of the week and let it run its course for a few days. I understand you and your daughter are anxious, but keep being hassled tends to wind very busy people up.
However, if you done politely it probably won’t harm. You’d be surprised the number of cross emails from parents the admissions team get!
Crikey how many of us work in Universities!
yeah, but none of you are admissions tutor for Media and Creative at warwick, and as such you're no poxing use to me at all 😉
Crikey how many of us work in Universities!
And I can think of 3 or 4 more who haven’t contributed to this thread.
I was thinking how funny it was that there were two people, presumably working at the same uni, with backwards usernames.
Then I realised it was probably Dr. Al.
and as academics, you wouldn’t be pissed off by a direct approach
For me, it depends on the situation. As ahsat said, academics don't normally like to be needlessly pestered, but in this case, if I was the admissions tutor or course leader, I'd want to know the details of the situation, which the office staff may not have passed on. A polite email ("Dear Dr Smith" etc.) concisely explaining the situation without making any demands (i.e. Rule #1) could be useful. If you can't find who the course leader or admissions tutor is, just send it to the best admissions email address you can find, and hope it's passed on. Make sure the email is sent by (or at least looks as if it has been sent by) your daughter - it shows the applicant's motivation and maturity, and there's nothing worse than a pushy parent!
You’d be surprised the number of cross emails from parents the admissions team get!
Aye, I've had some absolute belters!
I’m at a different Uni and although it’s a while (over a decade!) since I was admissions tutor, the entire programme team are now involved in admissions. Because we get so many suitable applicants, we spend a lot of time selecting the best students and having issues like this isn’t that unusual! If they are a good potential student and demonstrate real motivation to get on the course, it would be very unusual if we couldn’t find them a place. 🙂
I know lecturers at Warwick, but they are in medicine and not the area you are interested in sadly!
Still surprised that the college managed to send off an old email address
I’ll ask my daughter who is a progress coach, but I assumed ask this was entered by the student. Maybe to reduce Admin we can transfer standard data the UCCAS form
I hope this so gets sorted. In my experience outside medicine and possibly Oxbridge universities are flexible whilst being fair. Not that medicine isn’t fair it’s just they have less wiggle room whilst being fair
If she completed her own UCAS form, which I assume she would, it would have been checked for obvious errors by someone at her school/college (errors like applying for deferred entry by mistake, or requesting all communication in Welsh, a check of grades entered, or accidentally saying you have a criminal record), but they would not be expecting to check the accuracy of telephone numbers or email addresses.
All UCAS and Uni communication is likely to be via email, and it is important that the pupil/student has access to the email account at all times, including after they have technically left school/college. For that reason we do not allow our pupils to use their school-based email address.
I don't think that you can reasonably pin it on the college. It is her application, and the final stage is to tick a bunch of terms and conditions where one of them is to confirm that you have entered information correctly, checked it, and take responsibility for it.
If I, as a Principal Teacher of Pupil Support, phone UCAS, they will not speak to me about an application. They will only speak to the applicant, or the applicant's nominated person (usually Mum or Dad). An important step into adulthood...
I don’t think that you can reasonably pin it on the college.
Not trying to, as I said once I had the full facts, it is not the college's fault.
The college had her aol mail on file because at the time she was applying for her college place, that was her address. And it should have been all syncing to one apple mailbox, but that's what wasn't working. An old email that 'nothing useful' comes to x a sync issue = not spotting that messages were missing until something like this occurs.
Nothing to add other than good luck, as I know the stress involved with my eldest due to go off this year. Bangor in his case, so plenty of walking, climbing and mountain biking will be involved - not sure how much work!
I don’t think that you can reasonably pin it on the college.
What I can't fathom is how the obsolete email got entered into the UCAS account. These aren't done by bulk upload. They are individual accounts that applicants open, populate and curate. The only data I enter into my pupil's applications is the Reference that I write.
I can see all of their applications at all times through the UCAS Advisor dashboard, but I don't (and can't) actually enter any data.
She must have typed it in at some point, unless she has handed her login details over to someone from the school/college, or they have gone ahead and used centrally held details to set up UCAS accounts before handing the login details over to pupils. I wouldn't consider either of those scenarios to be good practice for anyone. Do you know if she set up her own account?
No idea, but obviously she either did or didn't check the college's inputs properly. Either way, her fault, compounded by the sync issue. Now trying to rescue it, rather than worry about how it happened.
Yep. Best of luck. Fingers crossed.
Anyone else keep checking the thread for a positive update?
Fingers crossed for her dude.
What I can’t fathom is how the obsolete email got entered into the UCAS account.
TroutWrestler - there are many scenarios where the wrong address ends up via the form she completed, e.g. she put an address in thinking it was only used for account login and any important comms would be by post (as the letter saying no thanks was!), she put an address in because it was the one she remembered and forgot to change it to a better one later, and perhaps the least culpable: the autocomplete in her browser put the email in for her - I've seen it change mine between work and home depending which phone number I start typing. Yes for something so important she should have been more careful, but then if it is the critical route for Comms UKAS should probably validate it works too (send you a link to click). She's probably 17 getting used to real life for the first time and the fact that old people like us expect her to use email far more than her generation do. I'd cut her some slack. In 2022 - if UKAS send a critical message they should probably back it up with a text!
@poly +1 auto complete / filling of web forms is both a blessing and a curse. If you've been using the same browser/account for any period of time, it's likely to be littered with entries which are either other peoples (completing lasting power of attornet / inheritance tax / probate stuff for relatives) or obsolete.
Let's not blame jonv junior when it's likely to be poor web/service design at fault.
Thanks all for your suggestions. Portfolio and accompanying document was uploaded to the submission portal as detailed in the original (lost then refound) emails last night.
She then followed up with an email to the admissions office, and also with fingers crossed we copied it to the Course Director whose email was easily findable on their website. Who my daughter as it turns out had spoken to at a virtual open day last autumn at the point she was looking at potential Uni's and courses.
It's only a small course (annual intake 35) so the 'punt' was there won't be many staff and she was almost certainly to be somewhere involved in the recruitment process - and also wouldn't be pissed off by the direct approach.
She's just had an reply to say that they will contact UCAS and reinstate her application as active, and will review her submission in due course.
It's not an offer, obvs depends on the submission and possibly interview, but at least SHE'S BACK IN THE GAME!
Thanks again to all for your advice.
(as an aside. When they're little they believe daddy can fix everything. When they get older, much to Daddy's sorrow he has to admit that there are some things he can't fix)
But most things, someone on STW can......
I would get her to ring the people who have helped out to say thank you for their efforts. Not to grease the wheels but showing gratitude is always good.
Now that it's been sorted, I feel I need to pick up on this:
As ahsat said, academics don’t normally like to be needlessly pestered,
Do academics assume that non-academics are happy to be needlessly pestered? 😀
(I've been following the thread because my eldest is the same age and going through the process. Just keeping an eye out for any interesting inside info.)
Glad it's worked out, having gone through it all last year.
It’s not an offer, obvs depends on the submission and possibly interview, but at least SHE’S BACK IN THE GAME!
Fantastic news!
Do academics assume that non-academics are happy to be needlessly pestered? 😀
Haha, more like folk think that academics sit around with all the time in the world, chatting to students for hours on end and sipping coffee/booze, like you see in films. I wish!
we all know about the SCR wine cellar, don't try to pretend..
TroutWrestler – there are many scenarios where the wrong address ends up via the form she completed, e.g. she put an address in thinking it was only used for account login and any important comms would be by post (as the letter saying no thanks was!), she put an address in because it was the one she remembered and forgot to change it to a better one later, and perhaps the least culpable: the autocomplete in her browser put the email in for her – I’ve seen it change mine between work and home depending which phone number I start typing. Yes for something so important she should have been more careful, but then if it is the critical route for Comms UKAS should probably validate it works too (send you a link to click). She’s probably 17 getting used to real life for the first time and the fact that old people like us expect her to use email far more than her generation do. I’d cut her some slack. In 2022 – if UKAS send a critical message they should probably back it up with a text!
I suspect it is more likely that the school have set up the accounts in bulk in advance of handing them over to the pupils. I oversee scores of UCAS Applications each year, and as challenging as it is, I really do not think that this is a good idea. I am not blaming anyone, more wanting to understand how it has gone wrong to ideally prevent it happening again in the future, maybe with a less successful outcome.
@theotherjonv - Do you now have access to the email account concerned? If not I would strongly advise that you get in touch with all the institutions to which she has applied and update the email address to the correct one. There will be many communications from the Unis regarding other stuff - arranging accommodation, for example - and you won't want to slip through that net either.
Yes, we do and we always did / had it. It might be an old email @aol.com and now replaced by an @gmail account but the account is still live and accessible (and will of course be watched as well)
The issue was that the autosync that collated all her emails from college, gmail and aol and supposedly put them into her Aplle mailbox (Mac, iPad, iPhone) had stopped syncing from the aol one some time back.
Good plan though to make sure that Warwick, Kent and RHUL all have her new gmail anyway.
Holy thread resurrection!!
After all the good advice, and having got back into the system she had to submit her portfolio and then we waited......for what seemed an interminable time...... until she got called for an 'interview' last week. Which was actually a panel thing, where they had to work together with others being interviewed and also do some 1-1 activities with the course tutors.
And she finally got an offer today which she has accepted!!
Thanks again everyone for helping us to sort this. Just need the grades now.....ABB or eguivalent ('cos one of her courses is BTEC)
That's awesome, tell her well done!
Great News!! It's good to know that honest mistakes don't rule out good candidates, unlike in many job application processes.
My Daughter is in Y12 and has set her heart on Philosophy at Cambridge - no pressure!! We are about to start visiting her other options soon too. We had a good chat about being realistic, whilst still aiming for the moon.
She won through to the national finals of the Cambridge Student Debating Competition, held in the Cambridge Union where the great and good of the world have debated and spoken. The whole experience really lit a fire in her.
Excellent outcome!
👍
Great news theotherjonv.
@dantsw13 MCJnr is in his first year at Cambridge, doing music at Pembroke. If you have any questions I'm happy to pass them on if I can't answer them for you. "Lit a fire" was how it went with him.
MCTD - thanks. It's that kind of place isn't it? My wife & I were both in the bracket but didn't have the bottle. Back then as working class kids I think we both thought we wouldn't fit in. Whilst there's still plenty of snobbery, it is definitely changing.
We stayed overnight for her debating competition. Some of the conversations you hear from groups of students are a bit different to when I was at Leeds!!
"Lit a fire" - Warwick's not Oxbridge, it's not even Durham Castle where I lived for a year but we had the same on the day we visited; in a way it helped it was an autumnal misty day and as the sun broke through and more of the campus revealed itself the various parts of the modern campus and the central square just started to fit together. And then on seeing the performing arts spaces, which is her real passion (hence media and creative for her degree) her eyes started to really sparkle with the wow! of it all.
My challenge at all the places that we went to was 'could you see yourself here for 3 years' and to that the answer was a resounding yes!
I think often there's an assumption that Oxbridge is best. In many subjects it just plain isn't. As in Schools, getting the one best for you is far more important than going where you think you should.
Your daughter must be properly chuffed and relieved. It's been a tough few years for teens, when they should have been out clubbing, singing and meeting people.
STW never ceases to amaze me with the spread of amazing jobs we cover! I don't suppose anybody is the Philosophy admissions tutor for Clare College........?
Oxbridge isn't necessarily the best for quite a few subjects - eldest had the option of maths elsewhere or music at Cambridge, so he's following the dream.
Some of the conversations you hear from groups of students are a bit different to when I was at Leeds!!
Jnr is studying music, but isn't good enough to play in the main uni orchestra - half the National Youth Orchestra seem to be studying there but doing everything but music. That puts into perspective what he's living with, and learning from.
Last week he attended the pre Union meal, he was quite excited that Vince Cable was there. He ended up sat next to.the guy that set up Independent Sage, who had a lot to say apparently. Whole other world for a lad who's primary school failed Ofsted and his secondary school would have done without a well timed change of academy status - though one of the girls from our village in his year made it to Oxford to do maths
Posts crossed - my lad applied for a different college, had (online) interviews with someone from there and someone from Pembroke. His first choice college didn't want him but Pembroke took him through the pooling system*, and he reckons its the best thing thst could have happened to him. Different college's do seem to want/attract different types of people, Jnr is one of the ambassador team that promote the college and work with prospective students at open events, and he reckons he can see the "type" at that stage.
*Pooling is definitely not the same as The Sorting Hat, but honestly, I find Hogwarts comparisons the best way of getting my head round the wonderful craziness of the place.
My daughters path is village school & State Grammar - she has quite a strong view on which colleges she likes, but as you say, with pooling you might end up with something completely different.
Even the other collegiate universities aren't quite the same as the oxbridge way of doing things - more a social collegiate system than the full monty. If she doesn't get in, it won't be for the want of trying. Essay competitions, philosophy workshops, debating clubs ; definitely trying to tick as many academically relevant Super Curricular activities as possible.
I know she would flourish there, but it's a tough gig where all the applications are strong. Even if she gets the grades and yes the interview, she could still just not be the lucky one on the day who they want.