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Does anyone know what the planning is if Covid hits halls of residence?
Just processing through how students who have to isolate but share a kitchen with 8 others and a corridor with 16 which has to be crossed to reach a kitchen...? They can't send a wave of them off home to infect wider (?)
Eldest_oab reporting a near total lack of care and responsibility being shown in his halls. We witnessed it last week, and he suggests its worse now. There's 2000 of them on one site.
I'm working out plans of how to get him some food should he become ill, so he doesn't have to go to the kitchen and can basically isolate in his room for a fortnight...
What's the science on transfer from surfaces now? There was lots of talk back in early days of this, but seems to be more focussed on direct transfer between people now?.
IMO this has a big bearing on your lads situation.
I read 96% of transmission was airborne. Anyway, halls disaster waiting to happen, loads of 18 year olds off the leash for the first time, what could go wrong. Worse thing is my 16 year old is in the middle of it all in Manchester, she says half of those around her are planning parties this weekend.
Ours halls are just reopening as international student etc arrive to isolate. They are reporting they have a large welfare team as part of this who if a student needs to self-isolate will help deliver meals etc. How this works in practice waits to be seen. Your son's Uni hopefully has some guidance online and via his accommodation service. It very much varies from Uni to Uni, depending on the make up of the campus etc. This is our online stuff: https://accommodation.leeds.ac.uk/info/1/prospective_students/114/coronavirus_covid-19_faqs_for_applicants#self-isolate though it appears they get more info when they arrive which will be block specific.
One of the SAGE scientists works at Leeds and has been part of the replanning process to get the campus open (though we are one of the last Uni's to do so.....!)
You are right - the guidance is there, the posters up, the expectations in place.
2000+ freshers, plus alcohol, plus lounges closed to prevent gatherings, plus a layout of halls that needs to put a mask on every time you go to the kitchen = no masks, everyone gathering in smaller kitchen, "close personal contact" rife, hand gel dispensers are tiny so need refilling 4x a day (so are not filled) etc etc. Basically, 2000 freshers are all but ignoring the controls.
what are you actually wanting done matt or are you just venting on here? Can't hold their hands and wrap them up in cotton wool, these students are "adults" now finding their way in the world.
I work P/T in a halls as said above they are told what the the rules and regulations are, they agree to these when they check in and posters, leaflets are everywhere but they can't be forced into doing these things by hall/uni staff a certain amount of self responsibility and peer pressure from each other would go a long way. As would stopping being so self entitled and think of others.
I work P/T in a halls as said above they are told what the the rules and regulations are, they agree to these when they check in and posters, leaflets are everywhere but they can’t be forced into doing these things by hall/uni staff
I work at a uni - not a student-facing role - and we are looking at trying to force them by tying 'adherence to the covid rules' in to our normal 'student conduct' rules, which if breached can result in penalties (and ultimately being booted out). But we're also delaying the return to campus for most students until mid-October, so we've got time to see what happens at other unis and change our plans accordingly.
My daughter hopefully off to Uni this weekend and in halls.
At £6700 for the year (self catered) I'm hoping they'll decide to deliver all her meals on a silver trolley to her room if she has to go into self isolation.
I'm getting second hand reports as eldest is Year 13, so a year away from it but he's got friends just gone away.
Get the impression that the layout of halls essentially makes them little leper colonies, and the likelihood is that the next 4-6 weeks will just see Covid added to the usual mix of Freshers Flu, meningitis and chlamydia. Unis are talking the talk about welfare and must have something in place from a risk/H&S perspective.
Bigger worry has to be students heading back home as soon as there is an outbreak and spreading it back round the country and wider population. I'd like to think unis can find the line as far as trying to impose discipline goes, but suspect it needs any big flagrant breaches of the rules to be kicked out asap to set an example of what responsibility needs to look like this year.
(and ultimately being booted out)
I can just see the queue of outraged parents now,defending their Tarquin/Matilda's of this world.
Anyway during this covid period can't make them homeless by booting them out, we have one international student who point blank refuses to pay rent as she knows how to play the system. Her debt is in excess of many £000's now.
We also have Uni’s who are already running £Ms of forecast debt as a result of Covid. Some smaller Unis are likely to collapse as a result of this. We have to continue student education to keep these places afloat, as well as for the futures of our young people, and I know how hard every members of staff has worked to try and make this work as best we can. People are busting a gut for this to work and literally keep the places alive. There are 10000s of peoples jobs on the line. As per above everything has been put in place to try the upmost to keep everyone safe - we cant move walls in student halls and as bruneep said these are adults who have to abide by the government rules the same as the rest of us. It’s no different to some of my postgraduates who live in 10+ tenant houses not under the Uni control.
Bigger worry has to be students heading back home as soon as there is an outbreak and spreading it back round the country and wider population.
This is a government thing, not the Uni’s. We have been told we need to get back up and running and students are going to be ****’d paying £9k a year for everything to be at home - especially in practical subjects like mine.
I 100% agree Uni’s are breeding grounds - students come to Uni to not socially distanced! Autumn is awful for bugs, which is why staff are v limited on how much campus access they are allowed.
Get the impression that the layout of halls essentially makes them little leper colonies
Some are better than others. I've got two daughters in halls this year - one is in a "townhouse" which sleeps 12 people on 3 floors and is completely separate from the other "houses". It would be simple to isolate a floor/house if required.
Other daughter is in a "flat" for 6. Again it would be pretty simple to isolate this flat from the rest of the building.
That said I'm not sure just how trustworthy the kids are going to be regardless of the posters/stickers/advice.
Eldest daughter is in her second year at Leeds and in a rented house - I mentioned the leicester lad fined £10k for the party and she said she'd heard of £80k of fines issues between just 3 houses over the weekend!!
I 100% agree Uni’s are breeding grounds – students used to come to Uni to not [be] socially distanced!
I'd like to think that if there was a better option we would have heard about it.
If they self isolate in their rooms, there shouldn't be too much of an issue. Would hope their new friends help and support them, for the benefit of all. Living in an environment of almost exclusively under 25s must be about as safe as you can get.
(obviously, hope that the >1% of that age group that get it bad get the proffesional medical help and support they need).
It's the mummy's boys and girls that go running home every weekend anyway, and will certainly do the same if they get any symptoms, that are going to be the superspreaders.
Never understood this. Apart from university sport, I never left the town (and probably a 2 mile radius) for the duration of term.
Get the impression that the layout of halls essentially makes them little leper colonies
Even in normal times they are, Freshers Flu is what happens when a bunch of horny 18 year olds from across the country get throw together to mingle. That combined with a lack of hygiene and a surpassed immune system from the lack of sleep and amount of booze make for an interesting combo.
On the up side, they're 18 so the chance of any Covid related issues is vastly lower than the normal freshers problems.
Never understood this.
I was the same as you, was glad to stay away from home ‘till the holidays. But deriding young people who wish to have one foot in their new city or campus, and one foot back home, rather than make a clean break, reflects poorly on you, not them. Especially as their experience and opportunities this autumn and winter will be nothing like ours were.
what are you actually wanting done matt or are you just venting on here?
Nothing really, as you say, they are grown adults.
I think my ask is 'what is the plan when it all kicks off?' Are Uni's sending thousands back home to further spread, or will we see them ask to isolate in their room?
We are fortunate enough that we can pop down if needed and drop off food/clothes/loo roll, so eldest_oab could just hole up in his room for a fortnight.
I agree about the halls layout being shocking for spreading - our sons hall has shared corridors for all, so bedrooms in groups of 8 one side and kitchen & lounge opposite. However the other residents all walk up the corridor between
I think my ask is ‘what is the plan when it all kicks off?’ Are Uni’s sending thousands back home to further spread, or will we see them ask to isolate in their room?
I think that is a fair question. The answer is that the government will tell us nothing in advance... so that we can't plan for the possibility of it (whatever it is).
[ we're planning for both ... a box of two weeks ambient food, including stuff that doesn't need cooking, in the back of the daughter's wardrobe... and prepare to drive and bring her home any day of the week, any week, any month ]
I think the govt have asked Uni's specifically NOT to send everyone back home, to avoid spreading CV all round the country. The uni where I work is going to have a walk-in test centre on campus so hopefully we can isolate cases pretty early.
he uni where I work is going to have a walk-in test centre on campus so hopefully we can isolate cases pretty early.
Likewise - already staffed onsite by students.
I think my ask is ‘what is the plan when it all kicks off?
Plan? I'm pretty sure neither Matt Hancock or Bojo have one, nor care in the slightest what happens. Students don't normally vote Tory, so are completely expendable.
Good to hear that two uni's are planning already.
I will join you Kevin in having a box of food and supplies ready. Loo roll included...!
My Son was in Halls last year not a hope in hell they can keep control of this. The students are too busy having fun. Thank god he's in digs this year.
JeZ
and prepare to drive and bring her home any day of the week, any week, any month
I do apologise for my earlier flippant remark about going home in term time.
But I do honestly think that if your daughter has to isolate, she should be doing it at her halls of residence home, not travelling across the country to her parent's house a la Cummings. Likewise she and her peers shouldn't be considering fleeing a local lockdown en masse.
I know its a tough thing for you as the parent, but she is an adult in her own "home" now.
2 weeks ambient food is a good preparation - I wonder how many parents/students will have thought of this.
Son2 currently self-isolating for two weeks in hall in Ireland before term starts. He's mixing with a few course mates from Spain, however. He's had it already and kindly gave it to me. But he is First Officer Sensible, so I'm not worried for him. More worried that the nine grand fees and six grand rent are for a Zoom course. At least they have physical aircraft to play with!
Likewise she and her peers shouldn’t be considering fleeing a local lockdown en masse.
We can’t be certain what the government response to rising cases will be… they are too unpredictable… we are just making sure we are prepared for either stay put or get clear instructions.
I know its a tough thing for you as the parent
No, it really isn’t. And as a parent, the decisions won’t be down to me, I’m just prepared to respond to them.
Cambridge response seems quite impressive- both to protect students and staff, and the community
Exeter Uni have funded a huge testing programme for their students as well.
No, it really isn’t. And as a parent, the decisions won’t be down to me, I’m just prepared to respond to them.
I meant tough in that for the first time your (eldest?) child has proper away from home independence; and decisions by her, the uni, and the government are entirely beyond your control.
It’s been like for months already, really.
Imagine being stuck in a room at Uni for two weeks...nightmare....oh hang on I mean imagine being stuck in a room at uni for 2weeks with no weed.....
Might be a silly question but who is doing all this weekly testing?
Imagine being stuck in a room at Uni for two weeks…nightmare
I can only base this statement on my own 18 year old self, but do we really think a fresher who’s tested positive, or worse, being caught on track and trace, will do 2 weeks isolation?
No way in the world I would have. Once I felt fine (and likely before) I’d be out on the lash, no question. It’s lonely enough for many in the first term or 2, but 2 weeks in the room as well??
and prepare to drive and bring her home any day of the week, any week, any month
Yeah.... THIS is the real risk.
Pretty much the nightmare scenario is that covid spreads like wildfire through the student community (pretty inevitable IMO), and in response uni's start sending people home/closing halls, parent start pulling their kids home.
Although some students will get seriously ill, the risk students pose is as vectors to more susceptible people (ie: their parents).
If you are sending your kids to Uni.... they are going to have to stay there until this is all done. Hard to accept - but students going back-and-forwards is a huge and complex population migration and represents probably the single largest risk of virus distribution.
My daughter is off to halls to self isolate for 2 weeks before term starts. The uni have arranged to put microwave and small fridge into rooms for those self isolating and will deliver food to their rooms during that period. Not going mad in the same room for 2 weeks is another matter of course
Which Uni leffeboy - ours just waved them all in....
My daughter is off to halls to self isolate for 2 weeks before term starts.
It’ll take 3 knocks in the door and/or 2 nights sat doing nothing before she’s in the pub.
It’s bloody lonely for many in that first term, even if you’re out every night making friends.
I know I sound like a broken record, but I just can’t see anyone staying for 2 weeks in a room.
Dropped my 19 year old at man met on Saturday. We were told only one person allowed in with him to move stuff in but this was ignored by everyone.
Made sure he has plenty of paracetamol and pot noodles and told him if/when he gets ill he will have to stay in for 2 weeks feeling shocking. It’s a flat of 5 in one of the big halls and he seems to need to use a couple of stairwells and a corridor to get in and out- no masks were being worn...
So far he has had virtual entertainment laid on by uni- pub quiz etc but not sure how long that will last... as he’s doing fine art he’s going to be in the studio 4 days a week anyway.
This age group will habe to get it and as long as they don’t bring it home or spread it outside of halls it is manageable.
Much less of a problem than in schools where for instance my sister in law’s teenage girls go home to my 79 yr old diabetic mum’s for tea every night... my sister is a teacher as well so I’m really concerned for mum...
leffeboy, that sounds really switched on… impressive.
As for students being the largest vector… well, if you compare it to a household where two adults work in different towns, and their multiple kids go to multiple schools… some on public transport… then, nah, we all pose a risk to vulnerable people… the focus on the youth is partly deflection by the rest of us, I suspect.
I can only base this statement on my own 18 year old self, but do we really think a fresher who’s tested positive, or worse, being caught on track and trace, will do 2 weeks isolation?
I like to believe that someone who tests positive and has symptoms will do the right thing and self isolate. I am sure some won’t, I suspect that is the same in the wider “non-student” community. I think if you are an assymptomatic positive it becomes harder, and if you are an untested contact (or worse tested negative but still told to isolate as I believe can happen) I think after a few days you are going to struggle. Certainly others will travel home - Cummings has made clear that this is not the wrong thing to do (like his children, a student with asthma might be concerned that if they get sick there is no one to care for them). Personally I’d be more worried about how a uni is going to mitigate the risk of someone becoming very ill and dying in their room whilst nobody notices than inevitable mixing between 16 people on the same corridor.
Personally I’d be more worried about how a uni is going to mitigate the risk of someone becoming very ill and dying in their room whilst nobody notices than inevitable mixing between 16 people on the same corridor.
Yeah definitely this. They will need to look after each other a bit. I hope my son has a better experience of halls than his sister three years ago- a flat of 6 where they ate in their rooms and never saw each other...
As above they are young adults and need to consider how to manage this new situation. I’m sure the majority will be sensible but the media will concentrate on the ones that aren’t. As my recently graduated daughter reminds me- “young people” are being blamed for Covid re-emerging at the same time as unemployment in her age group is rising faster than any other...
But as someone else said above, students don’t vote Tory so...
I know I sound like a broken record, but I just can’t see anyone staying for 2 weeks in a room.
If they've got the symptoms, then maybe. Or at least a week. But likewise I can't see any 18 year old sitting out all the partying/trying to get laid/etc when they feel fine. I certainly wouldn't have.
If they’ve got the symptoms, then maybe. Or at least a week. But likewise I can’t see any 18 year old sitting out all the partying/trying to get laid/etc when they feel fine. I certainly wouldn’t have.
Correct. If you've got the symptoms then you'll have 2 or 3 days where you feel rubbish and will stay in, day 4 or 5 when you feel OK, not fine, but OK, you'll go for a pint or a coffee, but still out.
Almost everyone asymptomatic will ignore it.
MMU has landed in the press about Halls. Students mingling in big groups playing music in the 'garden' area of the halls (Hulme campus) - not alot can be done once they are out of academic buildings - they are 'adults'. It's hard enough getting them to wear masks inside the academic buildings whilst walking through. Once out of a controlled environment, it's a free for all.
Students mingling in big groups playing music in the ‘garden’ area of the halls (Hulme campus)
They can't mix indoors, so they're ignoring some rules to socialise outdoors. I'd do the same in their position... be outdoors as much as possible... and eat out there as well, rather than indoors. No one genuinely thinks that 6 people eating, drinking and chatting around a small table in a small room is safer than 20 odd people having individual "picnics" in earshot of each other outdoors. And bring on the music... student life without music is dead.
They can’t mix indoors, so they’re ignoring some rules to socialise outdoors.
and then along comes Winter.
Fresher flu has taken on a whole new meaning.
It's going to be chaos .
and then along comes Winter.
All the more reason to not get upset about students making use of outdoor spaces while they can. Once they are all pushed indoors, everything will become more difficult for students and carry more risk (for society).
All the more reason to not get upset about students making use of outdoor spaces while they can.
Indeed,I only get upset thinking about what kind of experience they are going to have this term.
Even in normal times a lot of first years really struggle with settling in and have all sorts of issues,student services are going to be overwhelmed 🙁
It's the knock on effects as the staff are now aware of this - some are quite rightly worried they will catch Covid due to the partying. It's going to be a nightmare all round.
so it begins
MMU has landed in the press about Halls.
One of my daughter's is on that campus.
They've isolated everyone in one of the halls (not my daughter's) for two weeks and told them NOT to go home.
Unlike the building that has been isolated she is in a "townhouse" for 12 which is not physically accessible by anyone else so I think that could be isolated on it's own if required.
She went shopping yesterday to stock up on non-perishable food just in case.
😐
@sharkbait, 1 student who knew they had Covid went to classes and parties (Hulme campus). There are 9 now positive. We were trying to source 200 lunches yesterday at last minute.
Thanks for the update fossy.... Very interesting.
1 student who knew they had Covid went to classes and parties
One idiot spoils it for hundreds of others! 🤦🏻♂️
A friend's daughter is at St Andrews and apparently security has been hired to keep an eye on the students and expulsion from the uni is the ultimate threat for those breaking the rules!
Just had the call from eldest.
The notorious 'party flat' next to his has 4 of 8 residents confirmed with cv19. All his flat were at Saturday nights party with them, him included...
Amazingly, they aren't locking down the building, just the individual flats.
we have on site security at night who do regular patrols to stop any multi flat gatherings/parties. Must admit it was very quiet on site today on met one student the whole day.
There are international students who are self isolating, due to travel conditions, they are contacted daily to see if they require anything but they seem to be well organised with supplies etc.
I dropped my daughter at her halls in London on Saturday. Only three people (including my daughter) have moved in out of the dozen or so who are meant to be there. The other two are from outer London and have made clear their intention to move back home if restrictions / spread gets worse.
I'm struggling to see the sense of moving into halls if all teaching is remote on a particular course, especially when the going rent is £6k. Are you really going to have a good experience sitting in your room watching online lectures with halls and the campus significantly emptier than normal?
Amazingly, they aren’t locking down the building, just the individual flats.
I think that makes sense. If the message is "anyone gets covid anywhere in this building we are locking it all down" then the attitude will be **** it - we are going to get locked down eventually anyway, so enjoy it while we can. If its - if any of you 8 get covid you 8 get locked down the peer pressure is slightly different, and a little more control of your own destiny (like not going to the party in the flat next door!). Obviously there may be short periods where an entire building gets locked down to allow T&T to catch up.
Glasgow now as well...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/23/significant-covid-outbreak-at-glasgow-university-sees-600-self-isolate
I really hope it doesn't happen but it needs one of them to get seriously ill to dampen things down.
A long time ago but the only time the police were called to our halls the student was thrown off the course and the fact police attended didn't make local no matter national news.
Interesting thought poly, that could be the case.
Eldest texted late last night - rumors of many of them feeling ill through the evening (there's @140 in their building) although he thinks some is panicking.
One set of parents also turned up last night to take daughter home to 'avoid' getting ill...
Eldest texted late last night – rumors of many of them feeling ill through the evening (there’s @140 in their building) although he thinks some is panicking.
In my experience of HWU halls the heating was always up so high that I had a dry throat (probably coughed a few times!) and felt hot. That was before any hangover was added on top!
Well… looks like it’s going to be a quiet xmas…
Yes I read that with dread. Very few have actually turned up to my daughter's halls. Looks like a lot of students and parents holding back to see how things are going to play out before actually moving into halls.
If I hadn't moved in yet I wouldn't at all.
Daughter #2 just been on the phone.
Even though her townhouse/flat has been self-isolating for 8 days (8 of the 12 have had positive tests) their entire block, of about 20, townhouses has now been put into a further 14 days lockdown by the uni.
{Naylor at MMU @fossy}
They've even put security on the gates stopping anyone from leaving!
To say she's unhappy is an understatement.
If I hadn’t moved in yet I wouldn’t at all.
Agreed. As soon as the promised on site learning disappeared, and “local” lock downs were applied to so many university cities… the gig was up. It’s not going to get magically better in the next few weeks. Wish we hadn’t dropped ours off last Sunday.
Naylor at MMU
Was just reading about that, while trying to work out what’s happening in MCR this weekend and next week.
1700 students locked in it appears.
and one kid today on tv saying some parents had extricated their kids from some hostels and taken them home for one uni,(his words) going to be an interesting year for students.
Also students not happy all the stuff at campus out of bounds or closed and lessons online.
Going to be a huge number of claims for money back and failed education ,going to bankrupt a lot of hostel providors and private smaller landlords.
appears to be more unis in lockin now east anglia and a few others
Glasgow University is to refund one month’s rent to students in halls of residence as compensation after hundreds were forced to self-isolate following an outbreak of coronavirus.
Plus some other measures. Seems a reasonable compromise?
Thank goodness I'm working from home. Just been for a pint with my dad at our caravan site pub (we can't do that at home). He joked he wouldn't be having a pint with me if I was working from the Uni buildings. I wouldn't have even gone for a pint with him if I was at work as way too much risk - dad is OK health wise, but mid 70's.
The Uni's are working on helping out the students. Just shows you how fast this virus spreads - I hope all the idiots that think this is all a hoax wake up at some point.
Is there not an argument for allowing spread of cv19 within the uni population? It is going to be almost impossible to stop it spreading within a group who see little harm from it and desperately want to socialise. As long as its kept like a leper colony and vulnerable students are isolated. Vulnerable tutors will probably already be off. The current course seems to be a recipe for no education and psychological problems with locked down students.
Suggest you watch the Alternative Sage video from yesterday… in short… no… that will kill many people within and outside the student community.
Will do.
Vulnerable tutors will probably already be off.
Ha ha. Extremely vulnerable maybe, all the rest of us are bricking it.
I can't see how they didn't see this coming - it's cruise ships but with a younger population.
Not sure any of the students thought they would be a case study in the battle against Covid - with all the testing they are going to be a very highly monitored group.
Extremely vulnerable maybe, all the rest of us are bricking it.
Try being a teacher with groups of 30 and no social distancing!!
Honestly, can’t imagine what it must be like for teachers. Avoiding the mouth-breather parents at school drop off time is hard enough.
This. Kids cycle to school. I go some days with the youngest. Leave her close but not too close to school gate. Clusters of parents. No masks. Daughter puts a mask on before getting too close and takes it off again when in school.