[Closed] UKIP's 'Common Sense' bus hits Portsmouth Railway Station.

On phone so links difficult but this is great for the bloke in the background:

[url= http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/04/nigel-farage-too-chicken-to-pick-up-phone-to-lenny-henry/ ]http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/04/nigel-farage-too-chicken-to-pick-up-phone-to-lenny-henry/[/url]

Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist ......

To be fair many people with right-wing views are also racist, few people would deny that, so it's hardly surprising.

Even David Cameron, who isn't noted for being a bed-wetting hand-wringing bleeding-heart leftie, has accused UKIP of habouring closet racists.

And he's right of course.

EDIT : BTW I don't recall ever seeing anyone accusing Z-11 of being racist, despite the fact he argues extensively on here from a very right-wing perspective.

if anything they're slightly left of centre

SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY? :facepalm:

I wish you'd point them out to me, I can't say I've noticed that many..

You are looking on the wrong threads then derekfish.

Perhaps you start with some easy search terms like "Gove", "privatisation" and "Thatcher". On that note whatever happened to farmer john? (he used to enter and exit political threads with excellent comedy rightwing one-liners) Also interesting that a couple of the best/funniest stw arguers-for-the-right are still well-loved and very active on here, but just rarely if ever on politics threads. Also a couple of the right-ish regulars here don't seem to like being told they sound conservative or right wing despite making excellent and well-formed arguments in favour of right-ist political decisions.

I am not going to start pointing political fingers at anyone except me -3/4 of the way to the left, and about a quarter of the way up ( 😯 ) last time I plotted myself on the political compass.

grum - Member

SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY?

ARE YOU TRYING TO SUGGEST UKIP IS AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY?

I'M GUESSING YOU MUST BE VERY FAR AWAY.

Nigel Farage claims that the Conservative Party is a "social democratic" party. Bearing in mind that the present Tory Party and its leadership is even more right-wing than Margret Thatcher was, I think we can safely assume that anyone saying that is extremely right-wing.

SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY?

UKIP are right wing. They are definitely not extreme though.

BTW I don't recall ever seeing anyone accusing Z-11 of being racist, despite the fact he argues extensively on here from a very right-wing perspective.

Tbh there almost no racists on here as everyone tends to shout them down irrespective of personal political leaning

Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist

They are definitely not extreme though

they are pretty far to the right though and at least as right wing as the Republican party/tea party so extreme right is debatable but probably more polite than saying Far right which suggest racism.

I think it misses the point to dismiss UKIP as racists, that easy and a bit of a cop out.

Far better is to engage with them on their policies and then dismiss them as idiots.

they are pretty far to the right though and at least as right wing as the Republican party/tea party so extreme right is debatable but probably more polite than saying Far right which suggest racism.

extreme
?k?stri?m,?k-/Submit
adjective
1.
reaching a high or the highest degree; very great.
"extreme cold"
synonyms: utmost, uttermost, very great, greatest, greatest

2.
furthest from the centre or a given point.
"the extreme north-west of Scotland"
synonyms: furthest, farthest, furthermost, farthermost, furthest/farthest away, very, utmost, outermost, most distant, aftermost, endmost, ultimate, final, last, terminal, remotest;

By that definition "extreme" is further "right" than far.

UKIP are simply a right wing party, to call them extreme is ridiculous. If UKIP are extreme, where on the political spectrum would you put the NF or BNP?

blaming floods on gay marriage isnt extreme?

UKIP are simply a right wing party, to call them extreme is ridiculous. If UKIP are extreme, where on the political spectrum would you put the NF or BNP?

BNP = Slightly more extreme than UKIP. Not sure about the NF.

UKIP are right wing. They are definitely not extreme though.

No of course not. They are just a bunch of highly misunderstood moderates who think the Tories are too left-wing and if in power would slash taxes, create a flat rate tax which like the hated poll tax would treat millionaires and paupers equally, slash public spending to pay for it all, and increase defence spending by 40%, because according to UKIP despite having one of the highest defence budgets in the world we still aren't spending enough on defence.

How terribly moderate of them !

I dont think you can ignore the fact that this is politics and we need to look at what far right and extreme right mean
IMHO

Far right indicating racist overtones
extreme right just being nationalists

UKIP are a fair way from the centre- I am sure they would be happy to admit this tbh.
As ernie notes i dont see how you can argue they are not to the right

I am sure they would be happy to admit this tbh.

I very much doubt it.

Would we prefer if I called them a 'very right-wing' party? Or as above, perhaps 'far right' is better?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/12/ukip-far-right-bnp

All this talk of left and right, no wonder the bus driver got confused!

Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist

Well, as mentioned above - its perfectly possible to be right wing without being racist or fascist (In fact I well recall being labelled a right wing anarchist, which is as far from Fascist as you can get.)

Nor is opposition to the EU a right/left issue

As for Racism - there's a difference between supporting racism and supporting multiculturalism (an issue on which I fully support the position of [url= http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/may/28/equality.raceintheuk ]Trevor Philips [/url] ) Too many on [i]both[/i] sides of that debate are unable to see the difference.

For what its worth, I'm utterly opposed to UKIP because of their social conservatism - in fact Farage himself is far more radical than the rest of the party (eg. legalisation of drugs which he supports but the party opposes) the majority of their support/membership are fundamentally small c big state conservatives, with no real belief in the:
[i]slash taxes, create a flat rate tax which like the hated poll tax would treat millionaires and paupers equally, slash public spending to pay for it all, and increase defence spending by 40%[/i]
Policies that nutters like me would support

I have to say that UKIP are a good thing in the respect that less people will now vote Tory. And as they've no real chance of getting into power (at a general election), it'll just split the Tory vote in marginal seats. Less chance of them getting a majority. So thats a win/win really

No wonder Dave is doing his frankly weird God/anti-immigration/EU referendum dance though. Imagine being Dave. Faced not only with the realisation that you're haemorrhaging votes from your natural constituency, but the true realisation of what a truly odd, nasty bunch of racist, homophobic bigots your core support really is. And now you're going to have to pander to them shamelessly to stand any chance of winning an election.

I think he'd actually managed to convince himself before the last election, with all that metropolitan, husky/hoody-hugging 'detoxifying the tory brand' crap he spouted, that the rump of the Tory Party weren't as small-minded, vile and thoroughly unpleasant as they actually are. No illusions any more though, eh Dave?

Pretty much exactly what I was going to put. UKIP are hilarious if only for the fact they out Tory the Tories and in a tight election could stuff it for their closest natural bed fellows.

I already had a very low opinion of Farage and his ilk, but then I discovered that my father in law, who is a grade A "James Blunt"* is a friend of Farage. Judge a man by the company he keeps, and that makes Farage an asshat of the highest degree.

So, I agree with this chap;
[img] [/img]

*Rhyming slang is still alive and well.

Far left/far right in UK politics certainly doesn't mean what it can do elsewhere. Say what you like about UK racists, fascists, anarchists and communists, they have standards.

I think it misses the point to dismiss UKIP as racists, that easy and a bit of a cop out.

Far better is to engage with them on their policies and then dismiss them as idiots.

As much as I detest call me Dave + Clegg and have little time for Miliband I think they'll manage the above in the run up to the election.

Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist ......
To be fair many people with right-wing views are also racist, few people would deny that, so it's hardly surprising.

To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist, Uncle Joe (Stalin) killed way way more than Adolf, if I had a £ for every leftie losing an argument that reeled out the 'racist' ploy, I'd be a wealthy man.

UKIP sadly are a single issue party that's right wingedness can be defined by petty nationalism, but the idea of leaving the EU in itself is not racist.

And 'Racist' that is an extension of human tribalism, which taken to it's nth degree, could be argued, that supporting the wrong wendy ball team is racist if you go to the same absurd length some lefties do when reeling out its definition. It's quite pathetic in this day and age.

That picture in the OP gives a whole new meaning to the expression

" Getting off at Fratton"

To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist

Jesus - you can't say that round here!

Next you'll be suggesting that thousands of dockers went on strike in support of Enoch!

To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist

Yes of course, the association between racism and left-wing politics is no different to the association between racism and right-wing politics. Just look at the history of South African for examples of that !

The capacity of some people to spout bollox never ceases to amaze me 🙂

derekfish - Member

UKIP sadly are a single issue party that's right wingedness can be defined by petty nationalism, but the idea of leaving the EU in itself is not racist.

Genuine LOL. Of course it isn't, who has ever suggested it is? But things like, oh, for instance, saying black people born and brought up in the UK should leave and go to a "black country", you might think that's a little bit racist? Sort of like how being anti-EU doesn't make you misogynistic, but claiming "no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman" does. Or being anti-EU doesn't make you homophobic, but calling gay rights a "lunatic's charter" and making links with bestiality and paedophilia does.

To be fair, Lenny Henry was brought up in the Black Country.

That's the best bit isn't it! "Go back to where you came from! Dudley!" A wee fail-within-a-fail for UKIP, they could have pretended it was all a hilarious gag, too slow.

To be fair many people with right-wing views are also racist, few people would deny that, so it's hardly surprising.

Define "many" please. 1%, 5%, 50%, 75%......what percentage roughly do you think?

I always find it amusing and/or sad that in these debates anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe. One of the things I find most hypocritical about people on the left is their complete intolerance of any view that doesn't agree with their own view of the world.

I tend to vote for right wing parties because they are the ones who tolerate freedom of speech.

Define "many" please.

OK, but only because you asked nicely - quite a lot.

I can see that it's news to you about the connection between right-wing politics and racism, but as my quote which you used says [i]"few people would deny that".[/i] You are clearly one of the few.

In other shocking news it turns out that pope is a catholic.

.

I always find it amusing and/or sad that in these debates anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe.

It's funny how people's perceptions differ. Here's mine :

ernie_lynch - Member

BTW I don't recall ever seeing anyone accusing Z-11 of being racist, despite the fact he argues extensively on here from a very right-wing perspective.

Posted 5 hours ago #

So who's right - you or me ? We can't both be.

Either anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe, or they're not.

EDIT : I've just realised that I'm being intolerant because I don't agree with you and your pov :

One of the things I find most hypocritical about people on the left is their complete intolerance of any view that doesn't agree with their own view of the world.

So sorry.

Northwind - Member
derekfish - Member
UKIP sadly are a single issue party that's right wingedness can be defined by petty nationalism, but the idea of leaving the EU in itself is not racist.

Genuine LOL. Of course it isn't, who has ever suggested it is? But things like, oh, for instance, saying black people born and brought up in the UK should leave and go to a "black country", you might think that's a little bit racist? Sort of like how being anti-EU doesn't make you misogynistic, but claiming "no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman" does. Or being anti-EU doesn't make you homophobic, but calling gay rights a "lunatic's charter" and making links with bestiality and paedophilia does.

Then since when was saying or thinking things a crime? Oh yes I remember now, since the last bout of left wing governmental influence.

I thought McCarthy was right wing republican? I seem to remember some rather worrying bits from my history lessons about his considerable impact of freedom of speech only 2 generations ago. Or perhaps my teachers were all lefties trying to warp us.

Then since when was saying or thinking things a crime?

Well in the case of libel and slander since about 800 years ago. Incitement of racial hatred about 50 years, and in the case of homophobia, much more recently - 50 years ago homosexuality was still a crime.

I see that you don't approve ?

BTW, you can think what you like - no one has yet figured out a way of revealing what people think.
So if you don't write it down or say it you should be safe.

I also remember the thatcher governments laughable attempts to censor jerry adams, she tried to have the 'death on the rock' documentary banned, attempted to hide the facts of the belgrano sinking,sarah tisdale sent to prison for leaking the arrival of american nukes, spycatcher, the public order act........

free speech and the right are rather incompatible it would seem

That gif is him outside the Bell in Bath. He went there for a drink today. The landlord threw him out. I like the Bell.

Although as everyone and his dog knows here, it is an achingly right on leftie bohemian establishment, it's just too obvious not to be a stunt.

derekfish - Member

that's the difference between tolerance and the left,

You do realise that the UKIP member and council candidate who told a british man that he should go to a "black country", was doing so because he didn't like something he'd said? Tolerance in action, shut up or leave your own country just because you happen to be the wrong colour.

Freedom of speech doesn't give you the undisputed right to be a shitehawk without challenge- it also gives everyone else the right to call you a shitehawk. That's not intolerance, it's consequences. And the "right" to be a racist comes a long way second to people's right to have opinions without shitehawks being racist to them. The right to be a sexist arse doesn't even register compared with womens' rights to live their lives without being penalised for daring to have a vagina.

The landlord threw him out.

Well, its good to see that landlords still have the right to not serve people they don't approve of... 😉

OK, but only because you asked nicely - quite a lot.

I can see that it's news to you about the connection between right-wing politics and racism, but as my quote which you used says "few people would deny that". You are clearly one of the few.

I was more looking for a percentage. And I'm actually one of the very many people who would deny it. Racists come from all walks of life and political views. Ad anyway most of what passes for racism these days is nothing of the sort. Believing that immigration should be reduced is not racist. UKIP ironically could be said to be the party most in favour of "black" immigration in that they want to leave the EU and open immigration up to the whole world, not just Europeans.

UKIP ironically could be said to be the party most in favour of "black" immigration in that they want to leave the EU and open immigration up to the whole world, not just Europeans.

thats only because they havent actually thought through the bobbins they spout

To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist

I always find it amusing and/or sad that in these debates anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe. One of the things I find most hypocritical about people on the left is their complete intolerance of any view that doesn't agree with their own view of the world.

It's not hypocrisy if it's true.

Racism, right wing views and a lack of intelligence are all linked.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract

thats only because they havent actually thought through the bobbins they spout

Actually, it was an opinion expressed by the UKIP leader himself in this article in The Independent. [url= http://http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/so-why-isnt-it-racist-when-other-parties-talk-about-controlling-immigration-9303300.html ]here[/url]

I should probably add that I'm not a UKIP supporter personally, but that's mainly due to their rabidly anti-cycling stance.

You do realise that the UKIP member and council candidate who told a british man that he should go to a "black country", was doing so because he didn't like something he'd said? Tolerance in action, shut up or leave your own country just because you happen to be the wrong colour.

Although I could guess that his motives were probably nefarious, I also don't have much time for Mr Henry's comments.

So ethnic minorities are under represented in the arts/entertainment industry.
Who gives a ****? Unless he's uncovered some institutional racism, which I don't believe he has.
Come down to my local hip hop/drum and bass night and you'll find statistically it's white people that are under represented.

Why isn't Lenny calling for more honkies at my local?

People are actually different.
Gender, culture, race.
Get over it and embrace the fact we're not all clones.
Why would anyone ever aspire to the average?

Love each other my brothers, that is all.

when i said they, I suppose I meant their supporters

BTW, you can think what you like - no one has yet figured out a way of revealing what people think

I'm actually one of the very many people who would deny it. Racists come from all walks of life and political views

Tell you what start in the EU ,it seems topical, and go country by country and list the parties with slightly racist views tell me what % of them are right wing and what % are left wing.
For this purpose wanting to leave the EU is not racist
Care to wager a bet on % that are right wing seeing as it is not true?
THIS IN NO WAY MEANS THAT ALL RIGHT WING PEOPLE ARE RACIST

I was more looking for a percentage. And I'm actually one of the very many people who would deny it. Racists come from all walks of life and political views.

Hey EVERYONE lets take his word for it and not listen to the head shrinkers and scientists! After all.... they don't know what the **** they are on about! It's all a liberal conspiracy.

[img] [/img]

It's not hypocrisy if it's true.

Racism, right wing views and a lack of intelligence are all linked.

Sorry to disappoint you, but not every bit of "research" you find on the interweb is reliable. That one was laughable.

There's a Grauniad* article saying that the three parties are concerned by their joint losses of supporters to ukip. That's 41% of Tories, 19% Lib and 12% Lab**. Thus they are supporting joint action. I presume they won't want any of these fruitcakes and closet racists back.

* http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/28/ukip-european-election-accused-of-racism

**Percentages from -

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/04/29/Britains-political-establishment-gangs-up-on-ukip

For myself I think it's the biggest protest vote England has seen. Not so long ago turnout was 14% in the Police Commissioner vote, here in the Tory heartland. You know, the party of law and order and that: their traditional supporters mostly stayed at home. The Tories shrugged it off. They might listen this time.

Oh, and Jackie Smith made an interesting comment...

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2014/04/28/we-need-to-do-more-than-just-condemn-ukip/

Sorry to disappoint you, but not every bit of "research" you find on the interweb is reliable. That one was laughable.

Are you a scientist?

I am. Your view's are thus null and void. Peasant.

Although I could guess that his motives were probably nefarious, I also don't have much time for Mr Henry's comments.

So ethnic minorities are under represented in the arts/entertainment industry.
Who gives a ****? Unless he's uncovered some institutional racism, which I don't believe he has.
Come down to my local hip hop/drum and bass night and you'll find statistically it's white people that are under represented.

Why isn't Lenny calling for more honkies at my local?

People are actually different.
Gender, culture, race.
Get over it and embrace the fact we're not all clones.
Why would anyone ever aspire to the average?

Love each other my brothers, that is all.

An interesting rant. But you haven't cleared up the question.....should Lenny Henry "live in a black country" ? That after all goes to the heart of the issue.

can we not have links to breitbart

are they not they some tea party sponsored nonsense thats smelt the whiff of faridge and his ilk from over the atlantic, hired the towering intellect of dellingpole and set up here to see if they can replicate the success of the tea party in paralysing american politics?

That one was laughable.

You laugh but I bet there was a bit of cognitive dissonance going on when you unconsciously realised that you're living proof that the paper was right.

@ Tom_W - your linky mentions a more recent update right on the first page above the title. One scientist to another, like.

(edit) - not that I can understand it

[img] [/img]

http://xkcd.com/1357/

@ Tom_W - your linky mentions a more recent update right on the first page above the title. One scientist to another, like.

Just skim read the updated paper, doesn't seem to different. Phew....nearly had me there...I thought they had redacted the paper or something 😳 . You're more than welcome to destroy the paper with reasoned argument though.

Are you a scientist?

I am. Your view's are thus null and void. Peasant.

I thinking you are confusing psychology with science.

Oh, and in this context there should be no apostrophe in "views". Amazing that a thick right winger should no that eh!

What if I was to publish a link to research showing that Oriental people are brighter than white people? Would that be acceptable science? Or racist?

You laugh but I bet there was a bit of cognitive dissonance going on when you unconsciously realised that you're living proof that the paper was right.

Sorry, but it was just laughter. Better luck next time.

free speech and the [s]right[/s] [b]Westminster MPs[/b] are rather incompatible it would seem

Would be more correct

@CFH James Blunt may be the modern version but I prefer the Berkshire Hunt rhyming slang version from which Berk is derived. But then I'm an old traditionalist.

What if I was to publish a link to research showing that Oriental people are brighter than white people? Would that be acceptable science? Or racist?

I call Chewbacca defence!

But it would be acceptable science. If you tried to argue that it was down to race not environment, then based on current scientific understanding...that would be racist.

[img] [/img]

Sorry about the briebart link, but I believe the numbers came from The Times, behind a paywall, I can't find them elsewhere. I could take it out and leave the numbers unexplained if that would be better.

I thinking you are confusing psychology with science

FWIW i say it is like alchemy was to chemistry in some areas...still at least it is not economics 😉

FWIW the link has been noted in the data for some time.
Lower the IQ the more right wing you tend to be
Another way is the average IQ of the right wing vote is lower than the average IQ for the left wing
It does not mean everyone left wing is bright and everyone right wing is dim....though it may be hard to tell that from these threads 😉

EDIT : Ignore that, things are moving too fast and I can't keep with the posts !

Don't offend right-wingers! They get more upset by our trolling but are bigger trolls themselves! Oh the layers and layers of hypocrisy!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2013/10/07/liberal-comment-trolling-polarizes-conservatives-but-not-vice-versa-study-says/

[img] [/img]

I see what you did there kenny, you replied and then you thought the better thing to do was not to get upset and prove the paper wrong!

[img] [/img]

(an issue on which I fully support the position of Trevor Philips )

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/29/10-good-reasons-not-vote-ukip-nigel-farage-europe

I see what you did there kenny, you replied and then you thought the better thing to do was not to get upset and prove the paper wrong!

You got me bang to rights. My right wing views have unfortunately left me incapable of holding my own in such esteemed intellectual company.

Instead I'm off to do the next picture in my Sarah Palin join the dots book. I think it might be a polar bear.

nevermind ukip - did you catch the bnps party political broadcast.

i missed it on bbc2, my missus told me it was the most weird surreal party political broadcast she ever saw, so i headed over to their website
watched the censored version - shes right weird as
then watched the original version - OmGWTfBBQBRB lollerskates, large dose of wtf please. Ive had to seriously consider the possibility that i took some pretty hard drugs on this evenings ride. Its the only explanation.

dear bnp-ers, two people have watched your cartoon now.

i was going to give them their own thread, but i thought better of it.

Anyway getting back to the OP, I notice that the Commonsense Bus is described as "Nigel Farage on tour".

[img] [/img]

It's nice to see that the party which intends to break the mould of British politics is a one man outfit.
You could say, one people, one party, one leader.

I also note that there is apparently an official Ukip taxi. There is something highly appropriate with the suggestion that Ukip's policies are best explained by a black cab driver. Preferably with the added visual communication of a rear view mirror.

I love it.. Lefty assumption that intelligence defines wether you're worthy of voting..

Here's the news guys, remember that little ditty '10 million Sun readers can't be wrong'

Have a guess how many Grauniad readers there are?

No matter how many lame high minded Grauniad pieces you post links to, the Tim nice but dims of this world don't read it, then come to think of it how many Daily Mail readers are there?

So, brace yourselves ladies.. For every bright left vote, there could be ten dim right ones.. 😆

one people, one party, one leader.

Yes! We did it! Nazis! "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"!

So, brace yourselves ladies.. For every bright left votes, there could be ten dim right ones..

Which is why everyone else is wrong and euthanasia is actually brilliant. Bring on teh epistemic autocracy.

And there we have it, Godwin invoked, argument lost, goodnight one and all, I'm off to find somewhere to post my big purple sign..

Your post does sound a bit "lets kill all the intellectuals and burn their books" though. Along with the fact that UKIP seems to be a party hinged around a cult of personality, it starts to beg the question....

And there we have it, Godwin invoked

Has anyone made a comparison between Nigel Farage and Adolf Hitler ? I think not.

[img] ?1[/img]

derekfish - Member

I love it.. Lefty assumption that intelligence defines wether you're worthy of voting..

When did that happen?

I thought it was Jesus with that halo Ernie.