[Closed] UK Prime Ministers since 1980 in merit order....

Blair (Ignoring Iraq)
Thatcher
Major
Brown
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)
May
Cameron

Cameron could have been really rather good but Brexit is such a big thing that it puts him below Blair and May.

I used to think I was left wing but I find myself wishing for Thatcher. Politics has gone mad worldwide, even Bush 1 and Reagan seem like left wing moderates these days.

Cameron could have been really rather good but Brexit is such a big thing that it puts him below Blair and May.

Yeah, Brexit is Cameron's Iraq. Maybe I should have added an (Ignoring Brexit) option.

The other thing that struck me when I was thinking about this is that for 40 odd years only two leaders have had a good enough majority to be remotely in control of their choices. You could argue Cameron, May, Brown & Major never really got a fair crack of the whip.

Blair (ignoring Iraq)
Brown
Major
Cameron
May
Blair (not ignoring Iraq) soley on the basis that while he ****ed up another country

Thatcher managed do go a long way to **** up her own

Edit: while it looks more than a bit partisan, I will say in the defence of my list both Cameron and May were either relentlessly rubbish (May) or far too obviously on the side of the Very Wealthy (Cameron)

Thatcher
Major
Blair (Ignoring Iraq)
Cameron (Ignoring EU referendum)
Brown
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)
Cameron (Not Ignoring EU referendum)
May

May is the worst.
Constant lies ,constant change of view point.
How can you vote for someone that doesn't stand for anything.
She should be shot as an enemy of the people.
Harsh but fair.
I'd go for a beer with Major and Brown though.

what a horrible question.

It's a bit like asking to rate your favourite bouts of diarrhea.

deadkenny - Member
Thatcher
Major
Blair (Ignoring Iraq)
Cameron (Ignoring EU referendum)
Brown
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)
Cameron (Not Ignoring EU referendum)
May

+1.

Blair (Ignoring Iraq)
Thatcher
Major
Cameron (Ignoring EU referendum)
Brown
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)
Cameron (Not Ignoring EU referendum)
May

Thatcher
Major
Blair (Ignoring Iraq) tied with Cameron (Ignoring EU referendum // as Coalition PM)
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)
Brown
Cameron (Not Ignoring EU referendum // as Tory PM)
May

Brown was the worst. Didn't ever believe he would be beaten to that accolade so quickly.

Thatcher
Major
Cameron
Brown
Blair - regardless of Iraq, he took credit for others hard work especially Mo Mowlam. If you include Iraq then he doesn't qualify to be on a list of merit.
May

It's a bit like asking to rate your favourite bouts of diarrhea.

Coincidentally I was going to look for a pic of a 'giveashitometer' reading zero 😀

PMs we almost had in merit order would be easier.

Milliband (D)
Hague

What did Major do of merit? Serious question - I'm not old enough to remember anything properly from that era, but I thought he was just a placeholder as the tory party of the time went through its death throes.

Major's main claim to fame is a key role in Anglo/Irish relations leading to the Good Friday agreement. I think he was the best PM we had who never got a real chance. Otherwise Coyote has it.

Blair
Brown
Major
Cameron
May
Thatcher

What did Major do of merit? I thought he was just a placeholder as the tory party of the time went through its death throes.

Good assessment. To be fair he didn't really do much at all due to a near non-existent majority. Indeed, the one thing he did do was invent PPP out of desperation because they were broke and needed to get some borrowing off the books - an unfortunate economic tactic which Blair and subsiquent governments picked up and ran with. I put him reasonably high up my list because he seemed a good administrator who came across well and didn't annoy the electorate too much. Also he won an election in his won right which isn't that common over the period we're talking about.

Milliband (D)

Good point. Things would be very different if he'd won the Leadership IMHO. IMHO No Brexit & no Momentum.

EDIT: I'd forgotten the GFA, SOM, good point. Major deserves his spot on my list more than I thought.

It is the duty of the PM to do good for the country [b]not sell out[/b].

In order of merit.

1. Thatcher
2. May
3. Cameron
4. Brown

5. Major
6. Blair

😆

Blair (Ignoring Iraq)
Major
Brown
Cameron
Thatcher
May
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)

When it comes to Blair the Wars obviously mark him out as a wrong ‘un, but really it’s early Blair v later Blair for me, he came into power on a wave of positivity we’d not seen in years, engaged with young people (as I was at the time) and in the first term and a half really did try to create a socially aware capitalist society, but he when the tide started to turn he did the same as Thatcher – robbed the future to keep the good times rolling today to cling onto power, he bullied Brown into going against his principles by dangling the carrot of PM to him and ultimately stayed too long to give him any chance of success. Ego the size of Wales coupled with a new found conservative Christian belief, not a great mix.

Major was a good PM who tried to tip-toe between good public services and ‘the needs of business’ he was a Blair without the charisma and a cabinet full of wrong un’s who couldn’t stay out of the tabloids, his biggest failing at a PM was losing the ear of the papers and they destroyed him.

Brown is an economic genius, no he really is, honestly – his actions in the first days of the credit crunch stopped a great recession being a great depression that could have bankrupted most of the West. Make no mistake, in the first time since the American Revolution the yanks were listening to us – he almost avoided the fall of Lehmans which if he’d pulled it off might have avoided the whole thing – for a while anyway, whether that would have been a good thing I don’t know – the fall of Lehmans was needed for the world to take it seriously, if he’d saved it, it might meant a bigger bank fell and caused a bigger shock – but he did a grand job in those first few hours and days. He presided over the longest period of unbroken economic growth in our history but ultimately that was his failing too – he tried to cool the economy in the mid 2000s, but with the 2005 GE and the Torys and the Lib Dems eating into their majority he was forced or agreed to allow the bubble to grow until it collapsed.

Cameron was fairly decent considering his background, I think he was a Tory that most Labour voters (not the hardcore Momentum types) could live with if they had to – he did a decent job of taking over the economy in the most difficult of times, despite their posturing they picked up where Brown left off, he fought tooth and nail to win the EU referendum and gave him a lot of respect for not triggering A50, I would have done the same. His major failing was clinging onto power by opening the referendum in the first place rather than risk a 3 way fight between Labour on his left and UKIP on the right, there was perhaps a time for an EU ref, but it wasn’t at the end of a 8 year recession (for all intents and purposes) and in the face of fears of terrorism, maybe if Corbyn had pulled he weight he could have kept his job.

Be mindful of championing Thatcher through rose tinted glasses, some of the biggest problems we're facing now are a legacy of her days in power that successive governments haven't fixed.
Housing Crisis, expensive utilities, terrible and expensive public transport, wealth through unbalanced and unsustainable housing market, war on drugs, London centric economy. She sold whatever she could get her hand onto to make a quick buck for voters then, which we’re paying back 10 fold now.

May, second worse behind later Blair, as a politician she’s failing – she called a snap election to cement her power and dam near lost, jumped into bed with a bunch of far-right God bothers (when it suits them) to stay in power, refuses to accept 48% of the population didn’t vote for it and the 52% who did aren’t being given the deal they were promised as long as it finally kills of UKIP. She’ll spend the next few months being battered on all sides before finally resigning. She’s done nothing of merit since taking power, done nothing to reunite the country, can’t control her own party. She’s a plastic Thatcher without the balls.

TL:DR – the good ones start good, but always end the same way – they’ll do anything to cling onto power for another term and it’s hurt the country every time, the bad ones do nothing but play on peoples fears to grasp power and screw everyone over time and again.

Can anyone tell me why Major should rank so highly? What achievements did he have during his time in the seat?

She sold whatever she could get her hand

According to Michael Portillo on "This Week" she was a bit of an interventionist who had to be lead by the hand into every privatization by her cabinet. Surprised me, but he should know.

PMs we almost had in merit order would be easier.

Milliband (D)
Hague

No John Smith? 🙁

Can anyone tell me why Major should rank so highly?

I tend to rate JM reasonably highly as he was dealt a rubbish hand at the point he took the leadership, won* an improbable election, then had a rubbish job dealing with an economic disaster, a tiny majority and schisms in the party over Europe. Left with the economy in decent shape, kept us out of the Euro too.

Also did at least as much as Blair for peace in NI.

Obviously boffing Edwina Currie takes the shine off a bit, as does the Cones Hotline 😀

*yes, about as much majority as May, but unlike her, a lot better than predicted!

Can those posting please put their age as well, so we can get an understanding of just how rose-tinted those spectacles are, and how old they were when some of those people were in power...

thatcher first, ffs.

Probably better posting location.

trailwagger - Member

Can anyone tell me why Major should rank so highly? What achievements did he have during his time in the seat?

Politically he won a GE that he really should have lost in a landslide, We were in a recession and he took over from Thatcher during a massive Tory backlash.

He's not a 'real' Tory, he left school (Grammar not Privately Educated) at 16 and campaigned on top of a real soap box.

Actually oversaw the building of large amounts of social housing in his early career.

Steered us through a recession twice that saw us fall out of the ERM early enough in his premiership to say it wasn't his fault, handled a War in Iraq without it becoming a decade long nightmare, and the war in the Balkans without it becoming WW3.

Whilst Labour is credited with ending 'The Troubles' it was actually Major who started the process by doing the unthinkable and opening talks with the IRA, despite the fact they tried to kill him with a Mortar attack.

Which was fairly remarkable given the fact he spend most of the time fighting off leadership battles and 2 GEs in 5 years.

He also never sold out, his biggest failing for me was selling of British Rail, but it was a disaster by then, even worse perhaps than it is now.

May is the worst. Say what you like about Thatcher, at least she had a plan.

I'd have any of the others back in a heartbeat

I once rang the cones hotline - the person on the other end of the phone didn't seem to know what it was and to be honest neither did I.

Impactful (albeit not as good/bad as supporters/detractors suggest): Thatcher, Blair
Harmless but ok: CMD
Harmless but irrelevant: Major
Harmful: May, Brown

Harmless but ok: CMD

Thatcher probably changed things the most but lets not forget she needed a war to win again, was kicked out by her party and every measure was higher when she left than when she entered

TBH the only interesting things is the best Blair and thatcher are also the most despised

I cannot rank them though Brown and May have been exceptionally poor.

Harmless but ok: CMD

Set us down the path of the Brexit shit show because he couldn't deal with the swivel eyed loons in his own party or some dick with a pint and a fag

Harmless? Alrighty then.

EDIT

Impactful (albeit not as good/bad as supporters/detractors suggest): Thatcher, Blair

Is a fair summary though

If we're allowed to caveat Blair and CMD, can we do the same with May? I'm not quite sure how to rank the top, but that makes the bottom for me:

Brown
Blair (Not Ignoring Iraq)
Cameron (Not Ignoring EU referendum)
May (Ignoring snap election)
May (Not Ignoring snap election)

8)

absolutely none . polipricks, every problem has just been wedged a little a different direction every time to take it away from a main issue,and has never really been sorted out.

Hmmmnnn...

Blair (regardless of Iraq, although it is a bit of an elephant).

Major (more competent than most give him credit for).

Cameron (privileged posho, but seemed to have some decency especially when forced into it by the LibDems).

Brown (given a shite job, and didn't do much to make a decent fist of it).

Thatcher (I grew up during the 80s...).

May (just awful on pretty much every level).

Best we never had? Might be rose-tinted, but I have a bit of a soft spot for Kinnock - at least he had some passion for politics.

Thatcher (I grew up during the 70s/80s...)
Blair

...
a big gap
...

Major
Cameron
May and Brown both dealt hands they didn't have a clue what to do with

zippykona - Member
May is the worst.
Constant lies ,constant change of view point.
How can you vote for someone that doesn't stand for anything.
She should be shot as an enemy of the people.
Harsh but fair.
I'd go for a beer with Major and Brown though.

Yep, support that totally.

I find it hard to characterize any of them as particularly meritorious, but if we're talking about effectiveness, then it's Thatcher, then daylight. She oversaw the end of the post-war consensus and ushered-in neoliberalism, the political and economic orthodoxy that continues to this day. Labour's manifesto at the GE was the first challenge to it since 1983.

Enjoyed P-Jay's post.

Cameron is the most incompetent politician and it's not even close - this may also translate as to being the worst but time will tell.

Enabling the brexit fiasco for no compelling reason stands out as the most colossal stepping-on-your-own-dick event in post war British politics that I know of.
Even when you compare him with other disasterous blunderers like Eden with Suez, or Chamberlain with Hitler [controversial, but was seen as such for decades], you can at least say they were wrestling with seismic geopolitical events. May and Brown might have / had the sidam touch as PMs, but Cameron is just on a different level for conjuring up an omnishambles shitshow out of thin air.

PMs we almost had in merit order would be easier.
Milliband (D)
Hague

No John Smith?

Heseltine
Kinnock
Hague
Smith
Milliband Maj.

Set us down the path of the Brexit shit show because he couldn't deal with the swivel eyed loons in his own party or some dick with a pint and a fag

Harmless? Alrighty then

He gave us a choice - others made it. Ok, he did/ we did a crap job at arguing for remain, but that is not 100% his fault. I blame him more for not being honest about the Feb deal. But we all take responsibility for the result.

He gambled politically because he expected a hung parliament and he thought he would never need to do it- he played politics, lost badly, lost his premiership and ****ed up the country - Given that how can you describe him as "harmless" is a mystery to me- ar eyou after THMfact as a hashtag 😉

that he was willing to pander to those who he called closet racists and loons to deliver this is also damning of his judgement

He was many things but harmless requires some massively blue tinted tory glasses which is such a surprise as you are normally so "sensible" and "impartial"

He gave us a choice - others made it. Ok, he did/ we did a crap job at arguing for remain, but that is not 100% his fault. I blame him more for not being honest about the Feb deal. But we all take responsibility for the result.

The referendum was solely about resolving an internal tory dispute. History will judge him very harshly.

Can anyone tell me why Major should rank so highly?

Out of that list, he's probably the only one of them capable of losing a "who's the biggest **** in a room containing Piers Morgan" competition.

Major is the only one I can't think of a reason to despise, so my list is short:

Major.

Also the most left wing of the lot when judged by what he did and more to the point what he didn't do and what the "New Labour" far right did when he went. Anyone else remember the measures tha went through in the first days of New Labour. That's right £1000 university fees (not even Thatcher had dared sign that one off) and indepnedence for the BOE (which I approved but was a right wing move)

[quote=5thElefant ]May and Brown both dealt hands they didn't have a clue what to do with

Incredibly harsh on Brown to compare him with May like that. Brown was dealt a shit hand whilst he was PM, and actually did a decent job of coping with it, at least as good a job as anybody else on that list would have done I reckon - that was actually a positive for him, it was other things which mark him down. May OTOH picked up a hand which she already knew all the cards in and proceeded to discard the high cards.

History will judge him very harshly.

It will/has.

But then again as with Thatch and Blair all political careers end in failure.

It will/has.

But then again as with Thatch and Blair all political careers end in failure.

Even on his own terms, it's difficult to see what his successes were. He failed to win an election outright against a deeply unpopular prime minister, in the middle of an economic crisis. Having managed to scrape a second term against a barely credible Labour, he then stuffed it up because of a tory squabble that will now hobble the whole nation for decades, and was out the door 14 months later.

Part of that is correct....

Thatcher always devisive depending on your geographical/social/age group - i think the majority of our social woes stem from her time in office and then Blair simply hid these problems behind borrowed money.

What is consistent about all the PMs mentioned is a lack of economic strategy (please dont cite Thatcher - she just amputated the economy and ****ed off with the crutches) we are entering into a phase where this type of strategy is required to keep us afloat - which is why i worry about Brexit, i dont think any of them could run my little SME business and turn a profit.

[quote=teamhurtmore ]But then again as with Thatch and Blair all political careers end in failure.

Maybe in the modern era if we're looking at PMs and similar, but that wasn't really the case for Churchill, nor for Rhodri Morgan (just the most obvious PM from an earlier era and modern politician I thought of - I'm sure there are others).

Good job, no one is proposing.... Oh forget it 😉

Incredibly harsh on Brown to compare him with May like that. Brown was dealt a shit hand whilst he was PM, and actually did a decent job of coping with it

Brown was dealt a shit hand whilst he was PM, and actually did a decent job of coping with it,

as with Thatch and Blair all political careers end in failure

ironically, despite this, her legacy is looked on better than his.

How does Cameron get no flack for Libya in this thread? urgh

They have all been self serving useless shits.

[quote=greentricky ]How does Cameron get no flack for Libya in this thread? urgh

we all expect less from the Tories 😉

Its a fair point actually

Junkyard - lazarus 

Brown was dealt a shit hand whilst he was PM, and actually did a decent job of coping with it,

economically he was great but he was not great with people or engaging so I think he is being judged on that not the financial mess which was not of his making and he did handle well

As chancellor, wrecking the strong economy inherited from Major, selling all our gold, abolishing tax relief on dividends in pension funds which caused a collapse of many pension schemes and the final nail in the coffin of final salary pensions. Just for starters.

Back to Major though - flaws and yet successes we should be thankful for. You could argue the Maastricht Treaty was bad, but on the other hand on signing that he was responsible for getting an opt-out on EMU, which would have otherwise forced adoption of the Euro. That proved sensible as other main flaw was signing up to the ERM as chancellor under Thatcher, and subsequently the UK crashed out of it which was his infamous Black Wednesday moment. Decision then was to stay out thanks to the opt-out, and that's one of the best things this country has done, else we'd have been dragged down with it. After that he turned the country around and rode through recession successfully, but the voters preferred Blair's charm and that brought Gordon in to make the utter mess we are in now.

If anything, the majority of praise or blame for the state of the country lies with its chancellors, not the PM.

Cameron - a true Democrat and gave us the most significant democratic moment of my lifetime.
Thatcher - did the tough things and moved the UK forward
Blair - you can't ignore Iraq (any PM would have done the same) but he delievered 13 years of Labour govrnment so has to be given credit for that
May - only been in the seat a year, delivering Brexit will push her up the list
Brown - the end of boom and bust ? Failed in his handling of the financial crises and played a material part in its creation whilst Chancellor
Major - signed Maastricht treaty, idiotic. Handed election victory to Labour

😀

It's amazing that Gordi scores so badly - have people forgotten that he saved the world singlehandedly from the global financial crises?

At least, I think that was what he said..

It's a good question.

Blair (ignoring Iraq)
Major
Thatcher
Brown

May

Until the war it did feel good when Blair was in charge, even if it wasn't financially prudent.
The outcome of some of Thatcher policies have led to deep rooted issue us this country but I'd also say without some of the reforms she introduced we would be in deeper shit. I also think she made the choices she believed in rather than for her own personal gain.
Major genuinely appears to be a nice guy, P-jays post on him is a good one.

wrecking the strong economy inherited from Major,

deadkenny - Member

Back to Major though - flaws and yet successes we should be thankful for. You could argue the Maastricht Treaty was bad, but on the other hand on signing that he was responsible for getting an opt-out on EMU, which would have otherwise forced adoption of the Euro. That proved sensible as other main flaw was signing up to the ERM as chancellor under Thatcher, and subsequently the UK crashed out of it which was his infamous Black Wednesday moment. Decision then was to stay out thanks to the opt-out, and that's one of the best things this country has done, else we'd have been dragged down with it. After that he turned the country around and rode through recession successfully, but the voters preferred Blair's charm and that brought Gordon in to make the utter mess we are in now.

Gordon Brown was unable to see that GDP was reducing, the trade deficit was increasing and the household debt to GDP nearly doubled under his stewardship. Where the hell did he think the money was coming from if it wasn't borrowed. Blinded by his own arrogance.

None of the above.

[quote=Junkyard ]

Brown was dealt a shit hand whilst he was PM, and actually did a decent job of coping with it,

That's debatable, but I don't think any other chancellor would have left the deficit in any better state - a Tory one would just have given the money away in tax cuts. Though he did actually do a decent job with the situation he got whilst PM.

but he was not great with people or engaging so I think he is being judged on that not the financial mess which was not of his making and he did handle well

Pretty much what is referring to with "it was other things which mark him down"

That's debatable,

I meant economics and spreadsheets were his strength and he handled it [as] well [as could be expected]

[quote=deadkenny ]he was responsible for getting an opt-out on EMU, which would have otherwise forced adoption of the Euro.
...
Decision then was to stay out thanks to the opt-out, and that's one of the best things this country has done, else we'd have been dragged down with it.

Well if you're going to credit Major with that, then you have to credit Brown for the 5 economic tests which continued to keep us out despite political changes which might have otherwise led us that way - it's no accident that we never have and never will meet those tests. What's more, it's slightly disingenuous to suggest that without the opt out we'd have been forced to adopt the Euro - I note that Sweden has no such opt out, and that we also neatly avoided joining ERM2 by means of bombing out of ERM!

[quote=Junkyard ]I meant economics and spreadsheets were his strength

I'm loving the praise for Gordon 😉

Good Friday Major
Good Friday Blair

big gap

brown
thatcher

everything else major
everything else Blair

big gap

may

very big gap

keep going

nearly there

almost at the the bottom

Cameron for colossal dick treading reasons explained above.

[quote=eddie11 ]may
very big gap
keep going
nearly there
almost at the the bottom
Cameron for colossal dick treading reasons explained above.

I'm still thinking that the only reason May wins that one is because she's too weak and wobbly to even make a decision like that.

.

Cameron has dick in a pig also, but that didn't really do the country any harm. Just provided chuckles.

So wish we still had Spitting Image though. Okay they were right that they all became a bigger joke than the show, but it was still a bloody good laugh.

Cameron has dick in a pig also, but that didn't really do the country any harm. Just provided chuckles.

Erm, Brexit?

Be mindful of championing Thatcher through rose tinted glasses, some of the biggest problems we're facing now are a legacy of her days in power that successive governments haven't fixed.
Housing Crisis, expensive utilities, terrible and expensive public transport, wealth through unbalanced and unsustainable housing market, war on drugs, London centric economy. She sold whatever she could get her hand onto to make a quick buck for voters then, which we’re paying back 10 fold now.

Indeed.

whatnobeer - Member 
Erm, Brexit

Absolutely. He's potentially caused the greatest damage to this country since WW2 with the referendum.

But the pig stuff wasn't harm. May have swayed some votes, but majority of Brexiteers had long made up their mind.

He's potentially caused the greatest [s]damage[/s] benefit to this country since WW2 with the referendum.

FIFY

He's potentially caused the greatest [s]damage[/s] benefit to this country since WW2 with the referendum

Explain. I see a lot of uncertainty, instability etc. Not really seeing any benefit.

JAMBY HATES THE EU =- just read the statement in a Farage voice if it helps - the facts are irrelevant he thinks it will be great despite the evidence

Personally I think UKIP deserve more of the credit as the haemorrhaging of tory voters to them was the real cause not any principle on the part of dave.

Coyote we have nealry 900 pages "discussing" the topic (including usual amount of stw abuse etc)

People don't seem to focus on the economic risks of staying in, weak growth, globally uncompetitive regulatory regimes, bust currency and member states, undemocratic in fact anti-democratic, freedom of movement undermining wages, training and working conditions, failed border control, shambolic responce to migrant crises. Oh and they wamt an army !

Cameron gave US the choice as he did the Scots on Indy and for electoral reform. Brave man.

Brave man.

So brave he ****ed off when the country needed strong leadership despite promising to steer the ship regardless of the result.