You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Hi
So following on from my previous tyres woes..
I noticed that the rear tyres on my 2017 5 series are mismatched - one Dunlop and one Goodyear. They both have about 5-6mm left.
I had a moan to the dealer about this (bought the car in late November) as I didn’t spot it and even their own website says tyres should be fitted in pairs.
They’re possibly offering to fit new Road X tyres to the rear (Sailun in disguise).
However, I’m today replacing the fronts with Bridgestone Turanzas.
So - free cheap rear tyres potentially not as grippy as front or stick with premium mismatched at the back?
The car is heavy, carts the whole family and is I suppose vaguely “sporty” so I’m not entirely convinced about the new cheap ones, although it’d save me around £500 compared to my replacing them with premium brands myself.
Ta
I wouldn’t put cheap tyres on any car, especially a family car!
Is it a main dealer or independent garage? You’d expect a main dealer to stick to something vaguely similar to original equipment, and not some ditch finders
Or just ask them for the cost of the cheap tyres they are willing to fit, and you can put that towards a set of decent tyres
...looks at tyres on my car - different all round! 🙂
I've not randomly fallen off the road yet.
On the old 'ditch-finder' thing, I've always suspected that there's a lot of snake oil when it comes to tyres, and when it comes to 'premium' brands you're paying for the name, not for any measurable difference in performance. I've always assumed that there was this sort of hierarchy
a) super cheap, (and, admittedly, probs best avoided)
b) 'value' (perfectly fine for everyday use in 'normal' cars)
c) premium/branded 'normal' tyres (as above, but with a name premium)
d) premium fancy tyres (for your proper sportscar stuff)
Am I wrong? Are 'premium' tyres actually, measurably significant in normal driving conditions, better?
It’s Arn0ld Cl@rk (yes, I know, now at least).
I don’t think they’d give me any cash as the cheapy ones probably don’t cost them much at all.
I'd rather premium mismatched than cheap matching. As above why not ask for a discount on a new premium set
I’ve always assumed that there was this sort of hierarchy
a) super cheap, (and, admittedly, probs best avoided)
b) ‘value’ (perfectly fine for everyday use in ‘normal’ cars)
c) premium/branded ‘normal’ tyres (as above, but with a name premium)
d) premium fancy tyres (for your proper sportscar stuff)
That's always been my thinking too. I've had all-sorts on my cars due to varying finances at times of purchase and for normal driving around I can't say I've noticed much difference. Apart from more wear on premium brands (I guess due to softer compounds).
Could you go mid-range all round? Kumho, Maxxis etc.
Whats the issue with miss matching tyres? Do you think one will go faster than the other?...
^^ I guess I just worry about mismatched grip rather than one spinning faster than the other 🙂
I wouldn't put the cheapies on the back of a rear wheel drive BMW ,maybe shift the mixed pair to the front and new Bridgestones to the rear although I have Bridgestones on the front of my Z4 and can't say I'm a great fan of them as they wander especially in the wet. Must remember to check all my suspension bushes soon
In your situation I'd not change them, but consider changing them before they reach the wear limit (3mm rather that 2mm or before next winter). On the rear of a car, mismatched will matter less and in your case, they should both be a similar quality level. If you had one ditch finder and one branded tyre, I would recommend changing them.
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
I’d rather premium mismatched than cheap matching. As above why not ask for a discount on a new premium set
</div>
^ this.
I’ve always assumed that there was this sort of hierarchy
a) super cheap, (and, admittedly, probs best avoided)
b) ‘value’ (perfectly fine for everyday use in ‘normal’ cars)
c) premium/branded ‘normal’ tyres (as above, but with a name premium)
d) premium fancy tyres (for your proper sportscar stuff)
Similar thoughts here.
a) ditchfinder, Landsail-type brands - the brands you didn't know existed when you order by price on mytyres
b) Nankang etc - a step up from the super cheap
c) Hankook, Uniroyal, Barum (part of Conti group) etc
d) Michelin, Continental, Pirelli etc
Only ever c) or d) type tyres for me depending on what tyrereviews say on particular tyre models. I've had good experiences with top-end Hankooks recently. Once had Nankang winter tyres which were meh - worked well in snow but crap in typical cold weather conditions especially compared to the Conti winters I replaced them with.
a) ditchfinder, Landsail-type brands – the brands you didn’t know existed when you order by price on mytyres
I've got Landsails on the T5 and the little hatchback, neither of which are in a ditch.
As for reviews, I'm yet to be convinced that unless you have Lewis Hamilton=esque sensitivity to these things, and especially given the pretty much infinite variability in road type, surface condition, car type, car weight, weather conditions, speed, camber etc etc, any differences are pretty much imagined.
you’re paying for the name, not for any measurable difference in performance
In day to day driving, you are almost certainly right.
Where the premium tyres really start to make a big difference are the edge cases, the limits of grip. Now, I hear you saying 'but I don't drive on the limits of grip on the road' and you would be right. Very few people have to, until that brief moment when the need to The most common scenario is heavy braking, especially with steering input.
Now personally I don't go super premium but I always spend more on tyres because of that scenario. If someone pulls/steps out in front of me I want the best possible chance of bringing my car to a stop without bending anything metal or breaking anything squishy. Premium tyres do make quite a marked difference in stopping distances because they, generally, don't break traction as easily.
What seriousrikk says.
I've had mismatched tyres on my 3 series a couple of times, and didn't (quite) die. Originally it came with 3 of something (can't remember what) and a single Maxxis and that was OK, but the car definitely drove better when I swapped to a fully matching set of Goodyear Eagles.
I then bought another set of (OE BMW) wheels so the originals could run winter tyres, and they had (non RFT) Michelins on the front and RFT Bridgestones on the back. The Bridgestones were appalling - rock hard ride and terrifying in the wet, so got swapped sooner rather than later.
In your case - I'd do as Solamanda suggests. There's certainly no way I'd be putting ditch finders on a big heavy car like that.
On the old ‘ditch-finder’ thing, I’ve always suspected that there’s a lot of snake oil when it comes to tyres, and when it comes to ‘premium’ brands you’re paying for the name, not for any measurable difference in performance.
When I was a student I bought a second hand Clio that came with Road Champ tyres fitted to the front and Michelins on the rear. I planned to fit better front tyres when I could afford them but before I had the pennies I had the misfortune of skidding down the ramp to the uni car park and hitting a parked car. Cue people saying I was speeding etc but the uni security guard had seen the crash happen and was adamant I was going slowly, cue a review of the CCTV which showed me dawdling down the ramp then my front wheels turning but the car just ploughed straight on! When my insurer looked at my car they very quickly spotted the tyres and instantly blamed it on them having next to no grip whatsoever. I had the receipt for them being fitted by the previous owner and the insurance co actually went after the supplier (ATS, the tyres were an 'exclusive' cheap brand they flogged) and actually won on the premise the tyres were not of satisfactory quality to pass the UK standard. So ATS payed for my car and the car I hit to be fixed plus I had 4 new Michelins fitted as a 'Goodwill Gesture' too. I've never bought anything other than mid range tyres or better since (and yes I can feel the difference between them, especially in the wet).
When my mum bought her current car it had Landsail tyres fitted on two wheelson the left hand side with Vredsteins on the right, even she could tell the difference turning right compared to left. I put the Landsails in the front to wear them out and to balance the car a bit better but on the test run I found them so unbelievably awful I just drove straight to the local Kwik Fit and had some Fulda's fitted instead. When those wore out last year the local garage persuaded her to have some cheaper tyres put on and the handling instantly went back to being awful. Haven't switched those yet as mum's not happy about throwing the money away she paid for them. They're Sumitomo branded and feel like hard plastic.
Or just ask them for the cost of the cheap tyres they are willing to fit, and you can put that towards a set of decent tyres
Would be my angle, get what you want at a cheaper price.
I’ve got Landsails on the T5 and the little hatchback, neither of which are in a ditch.
As for reviews, I’m yet to be convinced that unless you have Lewis Hamilton=esque sensitivity to these things, and especially given the pretty much infinite variability in road type, surface condition, car type, car weight, weather conditions, speed, camber etc etc, any differences are pretty much imagined.
Bad exaple from me picking Landsail as it's actually a brand I've heard of (unlike the bottom end of the options on mytyres), but I think you know what I mean. It's not about racing driver / driving god / feeling whether the coin you drove over was heads-up or heads-down sensitivity during normal road driving*; it's what @seriousrikk says about edge cases, limits of grip. I'd rather have the extra ability of a better tyre even if I never need to use that ability.
* Saying that, I'm a very average driver and even I notice differences between tyres in normal driving, moreso in the cold and wet - no need to be a driving god to do that.
RFT Bridgestones on the back. The Bridgestones were appalling – rock hard ride and terrifying in the wet
Similar experience I had with Bridgestone RFTs on a MINI. I swapped to supposedly less-premium Hankook and they transformed the car for the better.
As for reviews, I’m yet to be convinced that unless you have Lewis Hamilton=esque sensitivity to these things, and especially given the pretty much infinite variability in road type, surface condition, car type, car weight, weather conditions, speed, camber etc etc, any differences are pretty much imagined.
I've never bought super cheap tyres, but I have used OEM tyres on new or new-ish cars which are also very poor. How do I know they are poor?
The Prius came with Bridgestone Turanza, which were bad because I could wheelspin very easily even in the dry and very much so in the wet. And on a very much not performance orientated car. This in itself wasn't a huge issue, and driving around normally it wasn't a problem. But then someone did pull out in front of me when I was driving about 20mph and I had to do an emergency stop. I ended up sticking my bumper into their door. I am sure that with better tyres I'd have stopped sooner and not hit them. The next set of tyres were decent, and I was no loner able to wheelspin. And it stopped much better in emergencies. Aftermarket Bridgestone Turanza however were really good.
We had an old Fiesta with cheapo tyres on it for a short time - that was deadly in the wet as it didn't have ABS and locking up was absurdly easy when braking.
Our current Hyundai also has OEM tyres on it and cornering on rough roads is a pretty loose affair so that does suggest to me that I won't be able to stop very quickly.
Just remember that the stopping distance only needs to be half a metre longer to be the difference between hitting the child and not hitting it. Or, in my case, hitting the door at 2mph vs not hitting it at all. In tyre tests, even among premium tyres the least good ones are still doing 20mph at the point that the best ones have stopped.
Similar experience I had with Bridgestone RFTs on a MINI. I swapped to supposedly less-premium Hankook and they transformed the car for the better.
Cars always come new with really really poor tyres that have the same names on as after market ones. So don't judge any tyre by the experience you get with factory fit ones.
IHN
I’ve got Landsails on the T5 and the little hatchback, neither of which are in a ditch.
As for reviews, I’m yet to be convinced that unless you have Lewis Hamilton=esque sensitivity to these things, and especially given the pretty much infinite variability in road type, surface condition, car type, car weight, weather conditions, speed, camber etc etc, any differences are pretty much imagined.
Because you drive to how much grip you have.
But what you can't do is stop 10 metres earlier when you have to emergency stop, like the difference between the Bridgestone and the Nexen in this test
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
Wouldn’t want budgets on the back of a heavy rear wheel drive car personally - I’d just keep what you have if there’s no hope of getting anything decent out of the dealer.
I think even in budget - mid range you have to be careful on tyres. Kumho ecstas I found alright - and the same with better models of Falcon. But I had some Maxxis put on once and they were ok in the dry but dreadful in the wet. They wheel spun up easily and were worse under braking - you could feel the abs having to get more involved more often. That was on a 160bhp diesel Citroen DS5 so not something pushing the limits of power or handling.
Am I wrong? Are ‘premium’ tyres actually, measurably significant in normal driving conditions, better?
No. Until the unexpected happens and you need an emergancy stop.
As for the OE Bridgestone Turanzas mentioned above. I had them on an Octavia. Must be a hard compound because they wouldn't die. They were shockingly noisy and after I discovered their grip on fresh snow was close to zero I replaced them all. THe rears still had 4 or 5mm.
Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons transformed the car. Apart from great wet grip and obviously good snow traction they were so much quiter that from tyre noise being the main sound at most speeds I couldn't here the tyres at all because they were now drowned out by the (not loud) engine noise.
Used Landsail, Davanti and Delinte with no issues with grip, except pulling out of junctions when the roads are greasy.
Just like any premium tyre I've had.
Worst I had were Pirelli P6000 in recent memory. Pua chod.